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Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Wed 23-Oct-13 14:59:42
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BT Privacy with Caller Display


[link to this post]
 
My aunt just got a call from BT Retail regarding http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/landl... and it was not clearly explained to her that by registering to continue with BT Privacy and Caller display for free she would be entering a new 12 months line rental contract!

BTW. she is on BT Basic.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 23-Oct-13 15:15:41
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
And this has what to do with broadband?

Code of practice
Might be worth a look. But only if you were there and heard the whole conversation.

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Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 23-Oct-13 23:10:43
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Had she already registered for it online? If so, it says there:
A new 12 month line rental contract applies.
In which case the BT phone call would be a continuation of that transaction that you aunt started and would not need to repeat the conditions.

Or was this call initiated by BT to offer her to register? In which case all the conditions should have been mentioned.

Please feel free to continue to raise BT phone only issues here or wherever. I, and I am sure others, are very interested in them.

EDIT: Do we know whether the same price increases apply to BT Basic?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Wed 23-Oct-13 23:13:25)


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Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 00:12:27
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
It was apparently a call from BT Retail informing my aunt that there would be a charge of £1.75 per month for BT Privacy and Caller Display if she wished to continue getting that service. When she refused having to pay there was an offer to get it for free, however the conditions for getting it for free were rather unclear and I'm not sure what she agreed to since I was not there at the time.

I will have to call BT Retail about this, my cousin and I tried to do a "live Chat" from the BT web site this evening but it was a complete waste of time.

If she had agreed to a new 12 month contract in order to get BT Privacy and Caller Display then she may have unwittingly agreed to giving up BT Basic, which does not require a contract, for standard line rental at £15.49 rising to £15.99 on 04-01-14.

Obviously I ignored the other post because having BT line rental is a condition for having BT broadband and any discussion about BT line rental is very relevant smile
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Oct-13 00:18:24
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Can you not create a MyBT online a/c for her and have a look?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 00:30:19
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Yes, but at the moment it will have to be approached very carefully ("softly, softly") since we don't want to cause any unnecessary distress smile
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Oct-13 01:29:00
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
What does your aunt want to do about the situation? If she is unhappy about a 12 month minimum contract period, probably her easiest option is to exercise her right to cancel the new contract amending her previous contractual arrangement with BT under the Distance Selling Regulations (more correctly regulation 10 of The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 (SI 2000/2334)).

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 02:27:52
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
What does your aunt want to do about the situation? If she is unhappy about a 12 month minimum contract period, probably her easiest option is to exercise her right to cancel the new contract amending her previous contractual arrangement with BT under the Distance Selling Regulations (more correctly regulation 10 of The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 (SI 2000/2334)).


Firstly, I think we need to establish the terms and conditions of her BT Basic account and whether the charge for BT Privacy and Caller Display can be imposed. What puzzles me is that for free BT Privacy and Caller Display a new 12 month contract is required yet BT Basic is offered on this basis: "Stay flexible. There is no minimum contract period for BT Basic. This means you can change from BT Basic to any of our other calling plans and packages at any time." http://www.bt.com/includingyou/bt-basic-what-you-get... Yet she is/was (?) getting BT Privacy and Caller Display included for no extra cost and I can not find anything about that in the rather sparse T&C's for BT Basic.

What was agreed on the phone I have yet to establish, but I hope it wasn't a change from BT Basic to standard line rental on a 12 months contract just for the sake of free BT Privacy and Caller Display.

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 24-Oct-13 02:30:00)

Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Oct-13 08:53:23
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Had she already registered for it online? If so, it says there:
A new 12 month line rental contract applies.
In which case the BT phone call would be a continuation of that transaction that you aunt started and would not need to repeat the conditions.
I think this analysis is very questionable.


If BT intend to be bound by the terms on their web site on unconditional acceptance by a customer, those terms are an offer capable of creating a contract on unconditional acceptance. Otherwise, the web site terms are a preliminary stage in contract formation called an "invitation to treat".


Adverts, including those on web sites, are often an "invitation to treat". However, these web site terms seem capable of being an offer: they would not create a supply issue (there's an unlimited supply of Privacy with Caller Display packages) and the terms appear to be sufficiently precise. The only element of doubt in my mind that the web page constitutes an offer is the use of the term "pre-registration".

If BT were using web site pre-registrations merely to call users back to enter into a contract, that would make it all but certain the web site is an "invitation to treat": an indication of the basis on which BT wishes to deal. In any invitation to treat scenario, the contract is formed solely on the basis of a binding offer subsequently made by one of the parties and unconditional acceptance of that offer by the other party. The invitation to treat is not incorporated into the contract.


From a contract law perspective, it is therefore incorrect to say the web site terms could be a continuation of a transaction concluded over the phone. Either the contract was concluded on the web, or it was concluded solely on the phone. As the original poster appears to indicate BT cold called the customer, the contract was concluded solely on the phone, seemingly without an invitation to treat based on the web site..



Whatever the contract formation scenario, any term is only incorporated into the contract if the accepting party had sufficient chance to be aware of it before agreement was reached. If a 12 month minimum period was held to be a particularly onerous term, it would only be incorporated in the contract if BT took explicit steps to draw it to the customer's attention before the contract was formed.

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 09:41:55
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
As the original poster appears to indicate BT cold called the customer, the contract was concluded solely on the phone, seemingly without an invitation to treat based on the web site..


As far as I'm aware, that is correct: BT Retail did apparently cold call the customer but the details of what was agreed are uncertain at the moment other than the fact that my aunt refused to pay for BT Privacy with Caller Display.

It was only after she informed me about the call that I discovered the online pre-registration for free BT Privacy and Caller Display (which she is unaware of) that my suspicions were aroused regarding the possibility of a new 12 months contract agreed on the phone which shouldn't be relevant to a BT Basic account.

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 24-Oct-13 09:46:06)

Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Oct-13 10:28:59
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
Firstly, I think we need to establish the terms and conditions of her BT Basic account and whether the charge for BT Privacy and Caller Display can be imposed. What puzzles me is that for free BT Privacy and Caller Display a new 12 month contract is required yet BT Basic is offered on this basis: "Stay flexible. There is no minimum contract period for BT Basic. This means you can change from BT Basic to any of our other calling plans and packages at any time." http://www.bt.com/includingyou/bt-basic-what-you-get... Yet she is/was (?) getting BT Privacy and Caller Display included for no extra cost and I can not find anything about that in the rather sparse T&C's for BT Basic.
Despite there being no minimum contract period for BT Basic, your aunt would have had a contract for BT Basic before this episode. The as yet unanswered question is what the change(s) are.

The usual position with amending a contract is that the existing contract is amended by a new contract. Free BT Privacy and Caller Display in return for a new minimum period of 12 months could meet the requirements for a contract. Any conflicts between the existing and new contract resolve in favour of the new contract, as they would be part of the changes agreed on.

In reply to a post by 4M2:
What was agreed on the phone I have yet to establish, but I hope it wasn't a change from BT Basic to standard line rental on a 12 months contract just for the sake of free BT Privacy and Caller Display.
As I said in an earlier reply, any term is only included in the contract if the accepting party had sufficient chance to be aware of it before agreement was reached, and particularly onerous terms are only included if explicit steps were taken before agreement to draw it to the agreeing party's attention.

Certainly a change from BT Basic to standard line rental would appear to be particularly onerous: it's withdrawal of a considerable discount. If free Privacy and Caller Display is not available on BT Basic, but BT offered it by mistake, that's their lookout.


There's a further complexity in the contractual situation - it might be that the "offer" on the phone was an invitation to treat, your aunt's "agreement" was an offer on the terms of the invitation to treat, and BT will subsequently come back with written agreement to that offer. In this case, if the agreement was posted, it is valid from the letter being posted, not it being received.

I still think it more likely that BT made the offer and your aunt accepted that offer, forming a contract for amendment at that point - but it is somewhat sensitive to the facts.


My thinking was to contact BT, requesting escape from the amendment contract under the Distance Selling Regulations if a contract was formed on the phone, or, alternatively, withdrawing the offer made if the "agreement" on the phone was actually an offer. That would return the situation to the unamended contract.

This saves all the hassle of proving what was or wasn't agreed. If Privacy with Caller Display in return for a new 12 month minimum period is available on BT Basic, your aunt can then take out a new amending contract on those terms.

Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 10:46:18
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I came across this just now, could be similar to the cold call or then again .....?

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumer/edw/f...

Alastair

plusnet
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 10:59:34
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
I will obviously have to check in due course exactly what was agreed between my aunt and BT Retail during that phone conversation, however I can say at this stage that free BT Privacy with Caller display on BT Basic was previously available to my aunt because I actually arranged it for her due to frequent nuisance calls.

What perhaps makes this case unique and more complex is that she rents a cordless phone from BT Retail which was an upgrade from a previously rented corded phone so she could see caller display. I believe that the rental contract on the phone has now expired, although she is still paying rental on it...
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Oct-13 11:23:25
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
I believe that the rental contract on the phone has now expired, although she is still paying rental on it...
Just because a minimum contract period has expired doesn't mean the contract comes to an end, unless that is what the contract states. It's more likely the contract remains active but termination rights become available.

Renting a phone is crazy these days, with it being so cheap to buy a quality phone (I'm a great fan of Gigaset units). It sounds like your aunt is overdue for the sort of comprehensive review of her arrangements with BT that I realise you're now trying to conduct.

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 11:31:03
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
Renting a phone is crazy these days, with it being so cheap to buy a quality phone (I'm a great fan of Gigaset units). It sounds like your aunt is overdue for the sort of comprehensive review of her arrangements with BT that I realise you're now trying to conduct.


Yes I bought her a phone a few months ago with a view to phasing out the rented phone but as you can imagine such changes have to be done gradually smile
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 11:39:24
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Apprentice:
I came across this just now, could be similar to the cold call or then again .....?

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumer/edw/f...


That link doesn't work for me today with IE8, although that same url did work yesterday?

Edit: it does work with Chrome today though smile

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 24-Oct-13 11:43:37)

Standard User johnjburness
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Oct-13 12:46:54
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
As well as all of the suggestions that you have received here (as well as your own proposals), may I suggest that you also consider contacting BT via:-
LINKY

This seems to be a specific point of contact for people who have raised an issue in a public Forum (which you have). It seems to go to a higher level of UK based support & can often produce results. Anyway, it is worth a try.

Regards,
John
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Oct-13 13:50:03
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
While we don't know what was said on the phone, it could be quite likely that BT were requesting her, as a BT Basic cust, to pre-register for free BT Privacy and Caller Display, as many of us have already done online. In which case neither we, nor her, have yet entered any contract for it; we await to hear from BT on it.

It may be that the 12 month minimum contract period would not be an issue to her, altho' it begs the Q as to what happens after 12 months, but a contract change from BT Basic to BT Standard line rental would be a drastic change of conditions, which if not mentioned would not be implementable.

We still don't know whether the announced future price changes apply to BT Basic.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Oct-13 13:56:03
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Prod: If you yourself are thinking of pre-registering, don't forget to pre-register both your line individually.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 14:24:19
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
BT Basic is an excellent deal for her - I just hope that it hasn't been mucked up with this privacy and caller display business.

IMO. calling BT overseas call centres is something to be avoided at all costs - its so much more straightforward with Zen line rental but that of course would be more expensive than BT Basic even with the additional £1.75 per month for BT Privacy and Caller Display...will have to see what transpires with the "softly sofly" approach and check for any further communication from BT Retail over the next few days smile
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Oct-13 14:24:46
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
It was only after she informed me about the call that I discovered the online pre-registration for free BT Privacy and Caller Display (which she is unaware of) that my suspicions were aroused regarding the possibility of a new 12 months contract agreed on the phone which shouldn't be relevant to a BT Basic account.
There's no restriction from a contract law perspective to the imposition of a 12 month minimum contract term for BT Basic if the customer takes another BT service.


There may be a regulatory restriction on BT imposing a 12 month minimum contract period on BT Basic customers. BT Basic is the special social needs service required as part of BT's universal service commitments. I'm not aware of any limitations on minimum contract period imposed under Condition 2 of BT's Universal Service Obligation - indeed, I'm not aware any direction on the requirements for the special social needs service has been published under condition 2.2. There's certainly nothing on Ofcom's Universal Service Obligation web site.

Unfortunately, as you say, it's hard to find the full terms and conditions for BT Basic. These would be in the application form, but you can only get that application form if you contact BT to obtain one in a situation of potential eligibility for BT Basic.

Edited by David_W (Thu 24-Oct-13 14:31:07)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 14:26:24
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: johnjburness] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by johnjburness:
As well as all of the suggestions that you have received here (as well as your own proposals), may I suggest that you also consider contacting BT via:-
LINKY

This seems to be a specific point of contact for people who have raised an issue in a public Forum (which you have). It seems to go to a higher level of UK based support & can often produce results. Anyway, it is worth a try.


Thanks for the link smile
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Oct-13 14:30:00
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Prod: If you yourself are thinking of pre-registering, don't forget to pre-register both your line individually.
Thanks for the reminder. I'm considering my options.

If it wasn't for the second line and my yet to expire BT line rental saver on one line, I'd take my line rental over to Zen. This way, I'd stop paying Zen's £5.40 per month charge for not having Zen line rental on one of the new FTTC packages. It's only because BT Retail's call packages are per account (Zen's are per line) and Zen has no line rental saver deal that Zen works out more expensive if I moved both lines across.

Possible answers include taking a call package on one line only, or porting the number on the second line (which is used for voice only) to a VoIP provider.

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 14:36:28
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Historically she moved from "Light User" to "BT Basic" and I don't think there is any paperwork regarding T&C's, although, if I remember correctly, proof or a declaration had to be provided regarding her receipt of Attendance Allowance benefit (which incidentally isn't included in the list of benefits etc. required for BT Basic confused )
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Oct-13 14:41:42
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
it could be quite likely that BT were requesting her, as a BT Basic cust, to pre-register for free BT Privacy and Caller Display, as many of us have already done online. In which case neither we, nor her, have yet entered any contract for it; we await to hear from BT on it.
BT's use of the term "pre-register" creates an annoying lack of clarity in the contractual position, as I mentioned earlier in the thread when discussing the contractual position.


I believe the most likely scenario is:

Offer from BT: We agree to provide you with free Privacy and Caller Display from a date of provision on or after 6 December, in return for you entering a new minimum period for your telephone service for 12 months from the date of provision.

Agreement from customer: I agree to those terms.


In that case, a binding contract exists from the moment of pre-registration, and the term pre-registration simply reflects the future date for provision of the service and start of the new minimum contract period.

The terms on the BT web site are depressingly vague. frown If anyone has the text of the e-mail confirmation following pre-registration, please would they post it with personal details removed.

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Oct-13 14:46:31
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Another advantage I find of BT Voice is that their fault reporting and monitoring is excellant. It can be done online unlike many other providers.

Unfortunately I have been unable to take LRS on one of my lines, cuz they want me to start a new contract and will remove the discount I have obtained on my Calling Plan. Also I don't want monthly paper phone billing; quarterly is sufficient for me but they have refused to offer it altho' there is no commercial justification in doing so.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Oct-13 14:47:55
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
I challenge you to call BT Retail and if you get any sense from them after waiting 30 minutes for a reply it would be a miracle LOL!
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Oct-13 14:53:07
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
If anyone has the text of the e-mail confirmation following pre-registration, please would they post it with personal details removed.
Has there been an e-mail confirmation following pre-registration or is it yet to come by 6th Dec? I certainly haven't had any yet and, as I implied, pre-registered 2 lines.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Oct-13 15:46:12
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
In reply to a post by David_W:
If anyone has the text of the e-mail confirmation following pre-registration, please would they post it with personal details removed.
Has there been an e-mail confirmation following pre-registration or is it yet to come by 6th Dec? I certainly haven't had any yet and, as I implied, pre-registered 2 lines.
BT Retail really aren't getting it, are they? The wording implied they'd send an e-mail confirmation if you provided your e-mail address during the registration process, hence my request (as I'm yet to decide what I'm doing so haven't pre-registered my lines).

They're risking a breach of the requirement in Regulation 8 of The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 (SI 2000/2334) to provide information in a written or other durable form about the information itemised in Regulation 7, including, in Regulation 7(1)(a)(ix), the minimum duration of the contract. This is serious, because of the consumer is unable to decide whether to exercise their right to cancel without this information.

There have been minor changes to these regulations in The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling)(Amendment) Regulations 2005 (SI 2005/689), but not in a way that materially affects what I've just said.

Standard User undecidedadrian
(member) Thu 24-Oct-13 16:10:05
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
To be honest this whole charging of BT Privacy caller display has been a farce.

When I found out I tried several times to get it removed now as it would be done and sorted and I wouldn't have to sort it out in December.

After trying online, phone etc I had to put an order in to get it removed and then I had a phonecall from BT sales begging me not to stop it but to take out the 12 months re-contcact.

When I said no I wanted it taking off they started arguing with me about how it wasn't possible to remove it until the new year.

At that point I said i have been a BT shareholder since the 1980's and if they didn't remove it I would be writing a letter to head office and asking them to play the tape back to see how many rules they have broken.

Then they said it would be "taken off as a special request" which was carried out the next day.

The companies practices get me really mad at times and next year I will be moving the FTTC to somewhere else now and citing this as the main reason.

Hope you get somewhere with this OP as frankly it seems that UK companies at the moment would rather happily break all the rules and be fined rather than operating in an ethical manner in the first place.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Oct-13 16:49:53
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
They're risking a breach of the requirement in Regulation 8 of The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 (SI 2000/2334) to provide information in a written or other durable form about the information itemised in Regulation 7
Only if you interpret the action of pre-registering by consumer to be either an acceptance of BT's offer or an offer in response to BT's invitation to treat, i.e. to be a constituent element of making a contract. That is still a moot point!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 24-Oct-13 16:51:40)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:30:53
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
BT's use of the term 'pre-register' creates an annoying lack of clarity in the contractual position
Yes, it does! Isn't 1 of the components of making a contract is that both parties intend to enter a contractual arrangement? I took it that by pre-registering I was merely pre-registering an interest (just like those who pre-registered an interest in FTTC before it came to their area) and that I would hear from BT by email eventually (not as yet) with their definite offer at which time I could, if I accepted, actually register for it.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 25-Oct-13 02:00:48
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
In reply to a post by David_W:
BT's use of the term 'pre-register' creates an annoying lack of clarity in the contractual position
Yes, it does! Isn't 1 of the components of making a contract is that both parties intend to enter a contractual arrangement?
There's four elements in a contract: offer, acceptance, consideration and intention to create legal relations.

Offer and acceptance we've already discussed. One party must make an offer they intend to be bound on acceptance by the other party, and the other party must accept that offer unconditionally.

Consideration is often a complex topic, especially when it comes to contractual amendments, but there's no real issue here. The basic formula is act for promise or promise for promise. The position that would be reached at eventual contract formation here is promise for promise: a customer taking up the free year's BT Privacy with Caller Display would promise to stay with BT for a year and BT would promise to provide a free year of Privacy with Caller Display.


Intention to create legal relations - which is what you were thinking of - is about whether the parties intended to create a legally binding agreement or not. It's most relevant in preventing the extension of enforceable contracts to most domestic or social agreements. If you promised your mother you'd see her for Sunday dinner if she'd cook, and she agreed, we've got offer, acceptance and consideration. What we don't have is an intention to create legal relations - you didn't intend it to be possible for your mother to seek damages from you in court if you failed to turn up for dinner on Sunday.

In commercial contexts, there is a strong and almost indefeasible presumption of intention to create legal relations. If you want to go Googling, the most relevant leading case is Esso Petroleum Ltd v Commissioners of Customs and Excise [1976] 1 WLR 1. About the only rebuttal of contractual intent in a commercial context is an explicit one - an agreement describing itself as an "honourable pledge" was held to be non-contractual in Rose & Frank Co v Crompton Bros [1923] 2 KB 261.

So, it's not intention to create legal relations that resolves this matter - it's in a commercial context, so the parties are taken as understanding that any agreement is legally binding unless there is very strong evidence to the contrary. The outstanding question is about what the parties agreed.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
I took it that by pre-registering I was merely pre-registering an interest (just like those who pre-registered an interest in FTTC before it came to their area) and that I would hear from BT by email eventually (not as yet) with their definite offer at which time I could, if I accepted, actually register for it.
I took "Register to get BT Privacy with Caller Display free for 12 months from the date it launches* (a new 12-month line rental contract applies)", with the additional terms and conditions at the *, as immediate entry into a binding commitment (i.e. a contract) to take Privacy with Caller Display for one year from 6 December 2013, with a new 12 month minimum contract period running from that date.

Words take their normal meaning unless there is a good legal reason to depart from that meeting. If there's any dispute about the meaning of a word, the courts often turn to the Oxford English Dictionary. The OED defines pre-register as "to record or register in advance". That would be compatible with my understanding - you're registering for a service in advance of it starting.


I remember the various BT pre-registration schemes for various broadband technologies. The problem with your interpretation is that I believe you've read "pre-register" as "pre-register an interest" without any justification to insert the words "an interest".

Of course, it's not what I say that matters, but what a court would say. The test for the agreement is found in Smith v Hughes (1871) LR 6 QB 597: irrespective of their real intentions, A is bound if they induce a reasonable person to believe they have accepted B's offer, and B entered into the contract believing A had accepted their offer. In that case, the dispute was over sale by sample: the buyer accepted the seller's sample of oats believing them to be the old oats he wanted, when the seller knew they were new oats. The first limb of the test is satisfied: a reasonable person would believe the buyer accepted the sample. The second limb of the test is also satisfied: the seller entered into the contract believing their sample of oats had been accepted and they would satisfy the contract by supplying oats consistent with that sample. The buyer's unilateral mistake in accepting new oats he was unable to use didn't excuse him from the contract.

In other words, it's not what you thought you were doing by accepting BT's offer that matters, but what an independent and unbiased observer would think you had done by accepting that offer. You accepted BT's offer believing it to be pre-registering an interest, and BT entered into whatever agreement has been created believing you'd accepted their terms. So, the issue is what that reasonable observer believes BT's offer to mean.


It really would have helped if BT had used clearer wording.

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 25-Oct-13 04:03:33
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Well, I didn't understand much of what you say except that you disagree with my belief that by pre-registering I had not entered a contract. I expect time will tell when I get the promised email from BT.
In reply to a post by David_W:
as immediate entry into a binding commitment (i.e. a contract) to take Privacy with Caller Display for one year from 6 December 2013
BTW: I think you have the date wrong; it is 4 Jan 2014.
From 4th January 2014 BT Privacy with Caller Display will cost £1.75 a month.

Register to get BT Privacy with Caller Display free for 12 months from the date it launches
6 Dec is just the deadline for pre-registering. Until 4 Jan BT Privacy with Caller Display is free as normal. On that date the chargeable version launches but by pre-registering (prior 6 Dec) you get the opportunity to have it free for 1 year with conditions.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 25-Oct-13 07:51:55
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Well, I didn't understand much of what you say except that you disagree with my belief that by pre-registering I had not entered a contract. I expect time will tell when I get the promised email from BT.
I tried to make that post as straightforward as possible. The key part is the second half of the post: I don't see the words "an interest" following "pre-register", and it is what an independent reasonable person would say you and BT have agreed that determines the meaning of any contract.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
In reply to a post by David_W:
as immediate entry into a binding commitment (i.e. a contract) to take Privacy with Caller Display for one year from 6 December 2013
BTW: I think you have the date wrong; it is 4 Jan 2014.
From 4th January 2014 BT Privacy with Caller Display will cost £1.75 a month.
At the *, it says "Pre-register before 6th December 2013. Provision on or after 6th December 2013." I expect, therefore, that provision of the new free service will start from 6 December 2013, and it might well be that most if not all of the pre-registrants will have the service provided from this date. However, the wording would allow provision at any date from 6 December 2013 to 4 January 2014.

BT really couldn't have made much more of a mess with this one - ambiguity because of the word "pre-register", apparently no promptly sent confirmations (which may breach the requirement to notify various things found in Distance Selling Regulations), ambiguity over the date of provision and no rational connection between the end-date of the pre-registration scheme and the start date of the new charges.

Hopefully the e-mail, when it arrives, will answer some of these concerns. It would help if someone getting one of these e-mails (or letters, if they didn't give their e-mail address when pre-registering) would post it.


The only reason I can come up with for the requirement to register before 6 December 2013 is that there may be relatively little publicity about the upcoming charges for the popular and previously free Privacy with Caller Display until the pre-registration scheme has closed. It may then be there is no way for existing Privacy with Caller Display customers to take up the free year and they will incur charges unless they cancel the service before 4 January 2013. Meanwhile, BT would be able to claim all existing customers had the chance of a free year.

I find this kind of marketing, if this is what BT intend, rather underhand. I am certainly looking at my options with regard to leaving BT Retail.

Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Fri 25-Oct-13 09:07:43
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
I am certainly looking at my options with regard to leaving BT Retail.


My broadband contract should end in Feb and my line rental saver in Jan so I am strongly considering moving to someone else. It was the free caller display that made it worth staying but now Plusnet or Sky are definitely starting to look like a worthwhile jump (especially as FTTPoD isn't showing the potential I had hoped for - no way am I entering into a 3 year contract for it).
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 25-Oct-13 10:05:35
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
I had a contract with BT Retail for line rental and free evening/weekend calls, on a good retention deal, that ended in August. When the contract ended the price would have gone up to the normal rate and they wouldn't negotiate a lower cost deal, so I left. (Incidentally, during the attempted negotiation the best they could offer was for me to pay the full 12 months upfront but they failed to mention that there would be an additional monthly charge for free evening calls!)

I believe the line rental, calls package and caller display etc. would have continued on a 14 day notice period (with the same package until Jan 14?) If I had stayed with BT Retail then I can imagine that the offer of free Privacy and Caller Display may have lured me into agreeing to a new 12 months contract via all this pre-registering nonsense...

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 25-Oct-13 10:32:32)

Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 25-Oct-13 21:11:29
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
"There's four elements in a contract"

Actually, there are four elements not there's - not quite a point of law but just better grammar.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1 & VM 2Mb
Now O2 standard
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sat 26-Oct-13 16:32:14
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I checked with my aunt again today and she's just received a letter from BT Retail regarding prices rises for BT Basic (however there was no reference to the phone call that she got from BT a few days ago.) The letter states that for BT Privacy and Caller Display a charge of £1.75 per month will be imposed from Jan '14 on BT Basic accounts. It is apparently possible to get BT Privacy and Caller Display for free on her BT Basic account from next year if she calls BT Retail and requests it but the details regarding termination charges etc. are rather unclear in the letter.

Anyway I established today that she sensibly refused to pay for BT Privacy and Caller Display and was advised that if she did want that service on her BT Basic account then she should call back and request it. Probably in January BT Privacy and Caller Display will no longer be available to her since she has refused to pay for it and does not intend to request it.

The call that she got from BT Retail certainly caused some confusion and even the letter regarding BT Basic price increases is not well written since it does not appear specific to her account.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 10-Dec-13 20:03:22
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
I took 'Register to get BT Privacy with Caller Display free for 12 months from the date it launches* (a new 12-month line rental contract applies)', with the additional terms and conditions at the *, as immediate entry into a binding commitment (i.e. a contract) to take Privacy with Caller Display for one year from 6 December 2013, with a new 12 month minimum contract period running from that date.
It transpires, it seems, that pre-registration did not actually trigger the entering into of any contract as such but the addition of an unselected but selectable option:
o BT Privacy with Caller Display free for 12 months .................................. £0.00

Includes the option to register for the Telephone Preference Scheme (TPS) to help prevent unwanted sales calls. A new 12 month line rental contract applies
into your list of selectable Calling Features. Thereby allowing you to choose when and if to invoke it and thus then enter into a new binding contract. See: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bt/f/4287586-pre-re...

However, it also transpires that even those who did not pre-register but already had existing BT Privacy with Caller Display also had this option added to their list of selectable Calling Features. So it would seem that the whole kerfuffle of pre-registration was a much-ado-about-nothing grin.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 10-Dec-13 20:09:39
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
It says here:
BT Privacy with Caller Display will cost £1.75 a month from 4 January 2014, but existing customers of the service can pre-register to continue getting it free for 12 months°. Find out more and register at bt.com/freecallerdisplay. BT Privacy with Caller Display will remain free for BT Basic customers.


1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Tue 10-Dec-13 20:18:23
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
It says here:
BT Privacy with Caller Display will cost £1.75 a month from 4 January 2014, but existing customers of the service can pre-register to continue getting it free for 12 months°. Find out more and register at bt.com/freecallerdisplay. BT Privacy with Caller Display will remain free for BT Basic customers.


Thanks, I didn't see that before smile
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 02-Jan-14 14:05:18
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
As I indicated last month, the act of pre-registering caused the appearance of a selectable 'BT Privacy with Caller Display free for 12 months' option in your list of Calling Features but unselected. On 31st Dec this option was this option was selected w/out any intervention from me for all 3 lines that I manage and had pre-registered.

Another line that hadn't pre-registered for BT Privacy + free Caller Display also had that option added previously but it hasn't been auto selected.

So it looks like the act of pre-registering caused the 12 month line rental contract for BT Privacy + free Caller Display to start just before the chargeable deadline of 4th Jan and not, as many believed, just after the pre-registration deadline of 6th Dec. Presumably one could still deselect that option before 4th Jan and not be committed to a 12 month line rental contract but instead pay £1.75 pm for BT Privacy + Caller Display.

EDIT: As the promised email from pre-registering has never appeared, BT presumably cannot regard the act of pre-registering as entering or a prequel to a new binding contract, particularly from the point of view of the Distance Selling Regs?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 02-Jan-14 14:23:15)

Standard User flippery
(committed) Thu 02-Jan-14 15:04:04
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I also preregistered.
Today on checking calling features, the £1.75 Caller Display option highlighted, needed to place new order to get for 12 Months free.
Whether you have preregistered or not, worth checking online,
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 02-Jan-14 15:14:58
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: flippery] [link to this post]
 
That's what I was talking about. The free for 12 months option was auto selected for all 3 lines I had pre-registered w/out needing to do anything incl. placing a new order.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Thu 02-Jan-14 16:13:15
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
It's a bit more difficult if you already have another order outstanding. My Mum has moved house and because the order for the phone line move is in progress you can't seem to check the status of the BT Privacy option - just says there is an outstanding order and that won't be finished until well after 4/1.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 02-Jan-14 16:18:27
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
My aunt got her quarterly BT Basic phone bill a few days ago and she was not billed in advance for BT Privacy and Caller Display nor was it mentioned on the bill as an additional account feature.

Hopefully she will continue to get BT Privacy and Caller Display for free even though she didn't respond to the confusing notification letter regarding price increases and the phone call that she received from BT Retail back in October.
Standard User flippery
(committed) Thu 02-Jan-14 16:28:34
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
That's what I was talking about. The free for 12 months option was auto selected for all 3 lines I had pre-registered w/out needing to do anything incl. placing a new order.


The £1.75 / month option was selected ( despite preregistration ). Unlike yours which had free 12 months free option selected.
Seems preregistration may not automatically give the free option implied.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 02-Jan-14 20:46:56
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: flippery] [link to this post]
 
Are we looking in the same place? I don't mean here: http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProduc... which just lists what you could get not what you actually have which you can view by pressing 'Change your Calling Features' button @ top R and then starting, but not completing, an order for your line.

EDIT: Mine was auto switched to Free for 12m option only 2 days ago. Of course, yours might have been in a queue to have it done yet.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 02-Jan-14 21:49:16)

Standard User cheshire_man
(knowledge is power) Thu 02-Jan-14 22:40:38
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
If I go down that route, the BT Privacy at Home with Caller Display is selected with a monthly cost of £0.00. However, despite having pre-registered and having renewed a 12 month Line Rental Saver a month ago, the BT Privacy at Home with Caller Display free for 12 months is not selected.

I'm thinking I need to talk to BT tomorrow (Friday).

Tony
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User cheshire_man
(knowledge is power) Thu 09-Jan-14 15:19:34
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
To update this. I rang BT last Friday, and after being put through to the wrong department twice, I managed to get a very helpful person who assured me that I would be getting BT Privacy with caller display FOC.

And this afternoon I've received an email which states
Thanks for registering to get BT Privacy with Caller Display free for 12 months.

We've processed your order and you'll get it free from 2 January 2014.

As part of this offer, a new 12-month line rental contract will also apply from this date.
As I've been with BT (and predecessor) for >40 years I'm not intending to change any time soon.

Tony
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 09-Jan-14 15:38:04
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cheshire_man:
As part of this offer, a new 12-month line rental contract will also apply from this date.
What happens when your LRS, which you've already paid in advance, expires beginning Dec 2014? Do you then get to choose to take out another LRS or start paying std. rental on a monthly basis?

Others on LRS will not have the 2 dates so close together.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 09-Jan-14 15:40:01
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
That's exactly as I read it, FOC if agreeing to a 12 month contract.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User cheshire_man
(knowledge is power) Thu 09-Jan-14 16:04:21
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
To be honest it's not clear. On current thinking I'm likely to renew LRS, but if that doesn't give me Caller Display FoC then I'll reconsider.

Tony
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 09-Jan-14 16:08:42
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
On Sunday I opted for the Caller Display FOC with 12-month rental. I suppose it would have made sense to try to get LRS as well but I was rushing and didn't think.

I shall pay the 1571 fee for now frown.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User cheshire_man
(knowledge is power) Thu 09-Jan-14 16:19:33
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
We've used a domestic answerphone for many years now, BT voicemail, while having the advantage of taking a message while the line is engaged, has never appealed to me. As soon as we come home we just glance at the base unit and immediately know if there have been calls (strictly only the calls that had an associated caller id), and also whether or not messages have been left.

Mind you we were reluctant to get an answerphone for quite a few years on the basis that we incurred the call charge to speak to someone to find out why they wanted to speak to us. The introduction of call packages killed that concern.

Tony
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 09-Jan-14 16:41:54
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I've never managed to get LRS as I have a special deal on my Calling Plan. I'm sure I'd be slightly better off taking the LRS and foregoing the special deal, but I regard the latter as a victory.

Kept paid 1571 on main line and removed for line that is mainly used for outgoing calls.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 09-Jan-14 16:48:20
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
That's it - I knew I was forgetting something. I also have (legacy) E & W included FOC. Though now my circumstances have changed, in reality that is no longer necessary as long as I have unlimited calls to landlines on my (also legacy) mobile contract. Ummm - I don't like the interlinked dependency there!

The E & W was used by my wife.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 09-Jan-14 17:50:01
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cheshire_man:
We've used a domestic answerphone for many years now, BT voicemail, while having the advantage of taking a message while the line is engaged,
Handy back in the day of dial-up internet connections.

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User cheshire_man
(knowledge is power) Thu 09-Jan-14 18:04:55
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
If it was engaged they'd ring back if it was important.

Tony
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 10-Jan-14 15:33:47
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I also have (legacy) E & W included FOC.
I doubt that will be a stopper for LRS, as it is legacy and you are not 'in-contract' for it. My problem preventing me from getting LRS is that my special deal Calling Plan is within a 12m contract.

However BT seem to mix up the diff 12m contracts. There could be 1 for the line rental which the recent BT Privacy + free Caller ID has imposed. There could also be a 12m contract on the Calling Plan. as I have. BT appear to be leaking that contract into the 12m LRS contract, when they would seem to be independant of each other.

You should try applying for LRS. By the time you get to 'Confirm' it should tell you whether or not you are eligible.

Bear in mind that with LRS, you go on to monthly paperless billing with whole bill monthly DDs.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 10-Jan-14 15:59:04
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Isn't LRS an annual payment?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 10-Jan-14 16:15:55
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes, but you still have to pay for any 'out-of-plan' calls and your Calling Plan, which in your case is £0. I was just drawing that condition to your attention.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 10-Jan-14 16:26:17
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Interestingly, as I'm billed quarterly, additions such as Call diversion which I had for a short time still came quarterly. I'm already on paperless billing, for the discount (we used to get?).

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Fri 10-Jan-14 16:36:45
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I supose that if you elected for papare billing they would charge you extra used to be £4.50 iirc
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 10-Jan-14 16:41:18
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
No, you can't elect! It is a condition of LRS to only have paperless whole-bill monthly billing.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 10-Jan-14 16:43:45
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
That's what I'm trying to warn you. LRS forces you to paperless monthly billing from quarterly billing on any medium.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 10-Jan-14 17:19:25
Print Post

Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
OK. Ta smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 23-May-14 14:10:29
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Just noticed that TPS continues after leaving BT Retail line rental. I've been with Zen for several months and just attempted to register for TPS http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html and discovered that my phone number was still registered. Don't get many unsolicited sales or marketing calls ("unavailable" number on caller display) but I thought I might be able to eliminate them completely...
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Fri 23-May-14 14:54:57
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I think BT Privacy essentially is a way of signing to the TPS (plus the extra bits). So, by having BT Privacy you would indeed already be on TPS anyway.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 23-May-14 15:06:18
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
I think BT Privacy essentially is a way of signing to the TPS (plus the extra bits). So, by having BT Privacy you would indeed already be on TPS anyway.


So it now seems that I have caller display and TPS (same as BT "Privacy"?) for 90p per month with Zen line rental...

"BT Privacy
Gives you more control over your incoming calls by registering you for the Telephone Preference Service to help stop unwanted sales calls. You can also get BT Privacy with Caller Display free for 12 months online with a new 12 month line rental contract (usually £1.75 a month). Standard price version available by calling us on 0800 800 150. BT Privacy with Caller Display will remain free for BT Basic customers."


BT Retail seem to be charging £1.75 per month for caller display then if one doesn't take a 12 month contract nor be a basic customer?

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 23-May-14 15:45:51)

Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Fri 23-May-14 16:03:50
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
TPS is free to anyone - it isn't related to BT at all. And yes, the BT charge is effectively just for caller display as far as I know (plus the "convenience" of BT signing up to the TPS on your behalf to save you entering your details).
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 23-May-14 16:11:42
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
TPS is free to anyone - it isn't related to BT at all.


That's interesting - I never bothered to check it out before, always thought TPS was a BT Retail thing smile

However BT Retail are charging nearly 100% more for caller display than Zen!
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 23-May-14 16:58:42
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
In reply to a post by ian72:
TPS is free to anyone - it isn't related to BT at all.


That's interesting - I never bothered to check it out before, always thought TPS was a BT Retail thing smile
A similar, but years old example, of BT's dubious advertising style as recently seen in their TV ads for Infinity. Superfast broadband only from BT.
However BT Retail are charging nearly 100% more for caller display than Zen!
Very unSporting wink.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 58.7/14.6Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 23-May-14 17:20:11
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Re: BT Privacy with Caller Display


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by 4M2:
That's interesting - I never bothered to check it out before, always thought TPS was a BT Retail thing smile
A similar, but years old example, of BT's dubious advertising style as recently seen in their TV ads for Infinity. Superfast broadband only from BT.
However BT Retail are charging nearly 100% more for caller display than Zen!
Very unSporting wink.


It seems that many BT Basic customers also got the impression that only BT broadband was available on their line...I certainly did when I attempted to examine the details of my aunt's BT Basic account...
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