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Standard User ajseeds
(newbie) Tue 25-Apr-17 12:20:01
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Who pays for BT Openreach Faults?


[link to this post]
 
A rural ADSL Max line. Phone provider Post Office. ADSL provider ID-Net. Problem- noisy line on voice with high-level sidetone. Report to Post Office. Line tested- battery fault. A few days later- receive text from Post Office- fault cleared. It hasn't been, of course. Report it again. This time Openreach arrive and say that the previous day they found a fault between the Cabinet and the DP and that they have swapped the pair. Plug their phone in- line still hissing away with high level sidetone, but they say that's fine. They go away. Some months later bill from Post Office for £144 for engineer visit. I remind Post Office of the fault history. They refuse to confirm or otherwise that their own line test found a battery fault. Post Office then write with note of Openreach visit which says no fault found on premises and line is OK. (not surprising having swapped the pair, which is not mentioned in report, presumably because was done previous day). Post Office say I am liable to pay for the Openreach visit. I write, giving details of my discussion with the Openreach man and saying that I am not liable to pay for Openreach faults. Post Office write today, saying I am liable and "we can only raise a credit for half this cost".

To add to my joy with Openreach, one of my London lines also developed a battery fault, same sequence. Text from Post Office a few days later saying fault fixed which it was n't. Re-report, Openreach report that there is a cable fault in the street, that a maintenance crew will have to replace the affected length, and that they will contact me again "soon". That was some weeks back. I wonder what the next Post Office bill will bring. Oh, and the rural line now is unable to ring more than one phone…….

Have others had similar experiences and is this Openreach trying to make more money by claiming faults are chargeable when they are not or Post Office trying to make more money by charging me for faults fixed by Openreach as part of their line supply contract?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 25-Apr-17 13:30:21
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Re: Who pays for BT Openreach Faults?


[re: ajseeds] [link to this post]
 
Fault codes do get confusing, and some providers do pass on charges - and in some cases it is not always clear if openreach did actually charge the provider, ie. getting to the bottom is difficult.

If the line has audible hiss impacting on the call (and particularly when ALL broadband kit is disconnected) and this is present in the test socket and you have not damaged the line or socket yourself then the cost for fixing should fall upon Openreach.

Whats odd is that Post Office are willing to credit half the cost, if after being polite but insistent that no fault was found that you are responsible for, then its time to official dispute the charge, which may mean taking them through the ADR process (note this will cost Post Office more than settling now)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 25-Apr-17 14:32:06
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Re: Who pays for BT Openreach Faults?


[re: ajseeds] [link to this post]
 
It's all a game these days.

You report the line as noisy to your CP, their test says battery contact, they raise a fault with Openreach.

Openreach clear the battery fault, but to you the fault remains because it's an HR causing the noise, the battery was non service affecting.

You raise the fault again, but now when your CP tests the line it tests OK to SIN349. So your CP, rightly or wrongly, raise the cheapest option with Openreach they can, a CDTA task (conscious decision to appoint) The engineer is tasked to attend site, carry out a PQ test from the NTE and listen on the line with their test phone. (Your BB kit unplugged means the noise is gone) These tasks are raised as a gamble by the CP ..... it tests OK but our punter says it ain't ... We'll agree to pay Openreachs charges if the line does pass a PQ test and the engineer states no noise.

To receive one of these tasks is a lottery, when you turn up the punter is often trying to report something different (usually a broadband fault) or they want the line shifting, or there's a fault on their extension wiring, etc, etc.

The CP hopes the engineer is dumb enough to just resolve whatever issue the punter IS actually reporting (bear in mind they are the only people who actually meet and deal with the punters face to face) and thus Openreach foots the bill for wasted engineer time. They are HOT on these tasks, scrutinised greatly to ensure that every opportunity to raise revenue is taken (and why not, they only get tuppence ha'penny a year in line rental)

As I said, it's all a game. Maybe if the industry was awash with revenue this wouldn't be the case, but regulation and the nations incessant quest for the absolute best for absolutely sod-all means that industry fights and squabbles, makes unreasonable demands with dire consequences for perceived failure, and all to the detriment of what the punters actually receive.

[rant over]


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Standard User freeola
(member) Wed 26-Apr-17 09:10:17
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Re: Who pays for BT Openreach Faults?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
As a small ISP selling WLR3 and broadband...pretty much exactly what you've said! Frustration from all sides I think. We quite often have notes back saying something similar to ’fault found and rectified at exchange' only to then get charged a month later, which then takes 3 months to dispute in what should be a pretty clear cut case. We're pretty thorough with testing with the end user over the phone but there's only so much a CP can do.
In the OP's case I would do as advised and keep pushing for ADR. HR faults are often hard to get resolved unless you get a good experienced engineer sent out.

Freeola
http://freeola.com - Broadband, Line Rental, Domains, Hosting & Instant Sites - Support
Standard User ajseeds
(newbie) Sun 30-Apr-17 16:08:01
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Re: Who pays for BT Openreach Faults?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks all, and particularly to Zarjaz for the techs. view of the situation. To ADR I may well be going, for the second time with this line. I think the fault includes an high resistance fault as with two phones, total 1.5 REN loading on the line, sometimes both phones ring, sometimes just the 0.5 REN one- have even heard the 1 REN one stuttering on and off. Spec. is 4 REN of course.

Anyone who has read "BBC Engineering 1922-1972" will know that trying to get specified performance out of the GPO was a dire struggle, despite valiant efforts of the techs. on the ground, and the evolution to BT and then Openreach has not improved matters.
Standard User partial
(experienced) Sun 30-Apr-17 21:22:17
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Re: Who pays for BT Openreach Faults?


[re: ajseeds] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ajseeds:
I think the fault includes an high resistance fault as with two phones, total 1.5 REN loading on the line, sometimes both phones ring, sometimes just the 0.5 REN one- have even heard the 1 REN one stuttering on and off.



Highly likely to be a low resistance fault on internal wiring or equipment rather than a high resistance fault on the openreach network if bells are not ringing properly. Check insulation on wiring between terminals 3 and 5.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Mon 01-May-17 10:22:21
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Re: Who pays for BT Openreach Faults?


[re: ajseeds] [link to this post]
 
Have you tested if two phones will ring properly if connected to the test socket using something like this: https://www.kenable.co.uk/product_info.php?products_...

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
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