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Standard User alexsiwft
(newbie) Thu 29-Jun-17 09:21:13
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Zen - Packetloss Issues


[link to this post]
 
Hi Guys,

Unsure if this is the right place for this post as it is technical in nature - but here goes:

I signed up for Zen FTTC Unlimited 1. Initially I didn't have any issues, the connection was ultra solid and reliable. The reason for using Zen was I had used them at a previous address for my ADSL connection and it was utterly flawless. I am an online gamer, so the reliability of my connection is paramount.

After around a month with Zen, I started to experience horrific packetloss. I felt this immediately (being an online gamer). It happens most of the time, but feels like it could be worse at peak times. I also lose the connection completely on some occasions, but this is rarer.

I would say my setup is more elaborate than the average users, with my house wired with cat6 cabling and a 1gb cisco switch.

Being fairly tech savvy, I immediately disabled all wireless devices and plugged a 20m cat6 cable directly between my Fritzbox modem/router and my PC. The packetloss persisted. In my mind this was how I would prove the connection wasn't saturated and the packetloss being caused by something else on the network.

Next step was to get in touch with Zen tech support. They were reasonable, but it took 3 or 4 long calls and a permanent quality test being on my line for over a week for my issue to be escalated and a BT Engineer was sent out to investigate yesterday. Unfortunately I couldn't be there to talk to the chap, but the general feedback was that he hadn't found any issues, but he had replaced my master socket with a new type. The packetloss continues, with nothing connected to my router (as shown on the graphs)

I have had the think broadband quality monitor running for the last week and have attached some of the graphs which actually show the packetloss worsened after the BT Engineer visited.

I am unsure where this will go when Zen get back in touch... but would any of you be able to advise me? This packetloss may not have been noticed by people just browsing the internet or watching Netflix, but it literally is making gaming and using real time applications impossible. As far as I am concerned the primary use for my connection is gaming - and in its current state that is not possible.

Any advice would be appreciated guys - this is an utter frustration for me.

BT Visit Day Graph

Day with Drops

Edited by alexsiwft (Thu 29-Jun-17 10:39:22)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 29-Jun-17 10:57:10
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: alexsiwft] [link to this post]
 
Do traceroutes give any indication of where things might be going wrong?

It is possible issue is nothing to do with the FTTC and to do with a backhaul network link, and if its just affecting a link in your area very few customers may be seeing it.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User alexsiwft
(newbie) Thu 29-Jun-17 11:16:44
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for replying!

I haven't tried any traceroutes. Would you mind pointing me to a FAQ that might show me how to do this?


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 29-Jun-17 12:08:37
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: alexsiwft] [link to this post]
 
For inbound https://www.thinkbroadband.com/tools/traceroute

that page will actually run the trace for you, and to do outbound https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/314868/how-...

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User smurf46
(committed) Thu 29-Jun-17 12:56:25
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: alexsiwft] [link to this post]
 
I might be barking up the wrong tree completely, but me (and another user) several months ago had a similar sort of TBBQM with a FritzBox 7490 Router. In both cases the packet loss and latency issues (with daily overnight dropouts and a reducing sync speed over time, as a result of which I lost a third of my sync speed) were completely cured by using the Fritz option to roll-back the modem's DSL firmware (under the last tab on the Internet option on the Advanced settings). It doesn't affect the rest of the firmware or, it seems subsequent firmware upgrades, as the modem firmware "sticks". We assumed an incompatibility with BT's DLM.

Good luck.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin

Edited by smurf46 (Thu 29-Jun-17 12:58:54)

Standard User alexsiwft
(newbie) Thu 29-Jun-17 13:15:24
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: smurf46] [link to this post]
 
Great - thanks for this info. Do I have an option of which firmware to rollback to or does it just rollback to the last firmware? I have that specific Router and will give it a crack when I get in tonight.

Thanks again guys.
Standard User hoopla
(member) Thu 29-Jun-17 13:47:12
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: alexsiwft] [link to this post]
 
I had a lot of issues with my Fritz.box (although a different model to yours) following a firmware upgrade. After a lot of messing about I managed to fix it.

Basically what worked for me was to back up the configuration, then do a factory reset, then restore the backed-up configuration except for the DSL connection details, which I re-entered by hand.

Problem solved!
Standard User smurf46
(committed) Thu 29-Jun-17 14:10:29
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: alexsiwft] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by alexsiwft:
Great - thanks for this info. Do I have an option of which firmware to rollback to or does it just rollback to the last firmware? I have that specific Router and will give it a crack when I get in tonight.

Thanks again guys.


The option is just to roll back the previous DSL element of the firmware (not the whole router firmare). Easier than a factory reset, though I did do a backup using the router facility first, just in case! But I've never needed it.

PS for info it's not the backup tab, but on the Advanced Interface the Internet/DSL Info/Line Settings and scroll to the bottom of the page to see the option to roll back just the DSL firmware. The router will reboot but all your other settings remain unaffected. so no need for any reconfiguration.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin

Edited by smurf46 (Thu 29-Jun-17 14:56:47)

Standard User alexsiwft
(newbie) Thu 29-Jun-17 17:42:05
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: smurf46] [link to this post]
 
1 thinkbroadband-gw2.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net 15 15 0ms 1ms 2ms
2 po4-31.bdr-rt3.thdo.ncuk.net 15 15 0ms 0ms 0ms
3 ge-0-0-8-51.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk 15 15 0ms 4ms 35ms
4 ae4-0.cr1.wh-man.zen.net.uk 15 15 6ms 12ms 61ms
7 82-69-62-2.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk 3 3 26ms 26ms 26ms
-7 ms ms ms
-6 ms ms ms
5 82-69-62-2.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk 9 15 26ms 26ms 27ms

That was my tracreroute result.

Just rolled back the router firmware and am trying again...
Standard User alexsiwft
(newbie) Sat 01-Jul-17 09:42:12
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: alexsiwft] [link to this post]
 
Hi again guys. Im still dead in the water with the packetloss continuing. I rolled back the DSL firmware of the Fritzbox as suggested, but I am still having issues. This is my most recent traceroute, if someone wouldnt mind helping me interpret it?

# Host Sent Recvd Best Avg Worst
1 thinkbroadband-gw2.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net 15 15 0ms 1ms 2ms
2 po4-31.bdr-rt3.thdo.ncuk.net 15 15 0ms 1ms 12ms
3 ge-0-0-8-51.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk 15 15 0ms 1ms 13ms
4 ae4-0.cr1.wh-man.zen.net.uk 15 15 6ms 9ms 38ms
8 82-69-62-2.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk 2 14 27ms 27ms 27ms
-8 ms ms ms
-7 ms ms ms
-6 ms ms ms
5 82-69-62-2.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk 1 15 273ms 273ms 273ms


Here is my latest BQM:

My Broadband Ping
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 01-Jul-17 10:51:50
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: alexsiwft] [link to this post]
 
Traceroute looks a little odd with the double final hop.

Doing some manual ones, the 6ms jump inside the Zen network between London and Manchester is high, but if consistent no issue

Am seeing some packet loss via traceroute as sometimes pauses, but oddly when I try to ping the IP directly I get no response at all. Being able to traceroute but getting no ping responses to me suggests something configuration in the router.

Time to drop a different modem/router onto the line to rule out oddity in the Fritzbox

Reason being that at times there are distinct patterns to your ping, and even when connection looks idle the packet loss is not reflected by an increase in average latency usually (this changed at 10 pm last night maybe using connection?)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 01-Jul-17 10:57:12
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Interesting ping woke up for a while then went back to sleep.

To me it looks like maybe some DoS code in the Fritzbox may be causing issues

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User alexsiwft
(newbie) Sat 01-Jul-17 16:15:57
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Mr Saffron.

So what should my next course of action be? If its a duff modem, Zen need to send a new one, right?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 01-Jul-17 16:30:17
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: alexsiwft] [link to this post]
 
Did Zen supply the Fritzbox? If so, how long ago?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 71288/12440Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User alexsiwft
(newbie) Sat 01-Jul-17 16:38:22
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Less than 2 months ago - yes Zen supplied it.

The BT Engineer tested the line with another modem - that should be enough to justify the modem being the issue then?
Standard User lexden16
(committed) Sun 02-Jul-17 10:13:43
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Re: Zen - Packetloss Issues


[re: alexsiwft] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by alexsiwft:
Less than 2 months ago - yes Zen supplied it.

The BT Engineer tested the line with another modem - that should be enough to justify the modem being the issue then?


I had this problem in spades about 4 months ago on my Zen FTTC connection using a Fritz!Box 7490. I tried absolutely everything: I rolled back the firmware; re-set the Fritz!Box from scratch (ie; not loading a back up); I sent full diagnostics off to AVM, and the result was nada. I even went through a BT to Zen GEA backhaul upgrade and the problem persisted. I came down one morning and looked at my BQM and the problem just went away. I am now running the latest firmware and my connection has been up and running for 86 days without a re-synch and with a normal BQM.

Thinking back, I found this bit of advice relating to having 2 BQMs running:

https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/FRITZ-...

I recall turning off the IPv6 BQM at some time during the diagnostics process. Finally, I should add that it was only the BQM that was showing pocketless. Streming etc were absolutely fine as they have always been on the two Fritz!Boxes that I have owned.
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