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Standard User Natty
(newbie) Mon 13-Nov-17 08:13:24
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Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[link to this post]
 
Hi, forum newbie here.

I joined Origin BB Fibre 40 \10 from Plusnet in May 2017 simply becaause they were the best value for money. Im aware of their bad rep but figured it was worth a gamble. Since they do not have a forum for help i figured ill post here instead.

I have been running a BB Quality Monitor since i joined, however this past couple of weeks my monitor is picking up high latency & spikes in packet loss, resulting in the internet being a bit sluggish at times with some intermittent disconections.

I emailed Origin with a link to my graph, speedtests & router stats but no response. So i phoned tech support & got fobbed off, he insisted on me downloading some software to analyze my connection however i only have an android tablet device & the software requires windows so he appeared unwilling to help.

When i first joined in May 2017 i did have some spikes of maximum latency & a snall amount of packet loss for a few months, usually during peak times which i figured must be down to congestion to which i submitted a ticket but got nowhere with tech support so gave up as speeds appeared to be unaffected.
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

Strangely this seemed to suddenly resolve itself from around 20th August & the graph looked good for two months
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

Then from 30th Oct it suddenly came back worst than before https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

The latest 12th Nov is the worst i have seen it https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

Speedtests can vary from around 15 to 20mbps to full speed which is the result i got early this morning using the Speedtest.Net app 7:30am http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/a/3376686794

Modem stats are limit with the TP Link vr2600 router (0db line attenuation upstream is a bug), error packets can rocket esp on the downstream into thousands but this could be a firmware bug. It had recently disconnected \ reset three days ago which is why the error packets are so low at the moment.

Line Status: Connected
DSL Modulation Type: vdsl2
Annex Type: Annex A
Upstream \ Downstream
Current Rate(kbps) 9999 \ 40000
Max Rate(kbps) 17161 \ 68761
SNR Margin(dB) 11.4 \ 14.4
Line Attenuation(dB) 0 \ 18.1
Errors(pkts) 30 \ 0

Live graph https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

Edited by Natty (Mon 13-Nov-17 18:54:48)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 13-Nov-17 10:00:15
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Natty] [link to this post]
 
If this was classical congestion as an issue then would expect things to be better in the 1am to 5am window, the timing of the start is in line with the busy time of the day.

It is possible they have some users who start a succession of large downloads that carry on it the small hours.

You have confirmed that you don't have any devices doing silent stuff like upload/download to cloud photo backup?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ian007jen
(experienced) Mon 13-Nov-17 11:38:24
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Natty] [link to this post]
 
What have you got on your wired LAN, I remember seeing something like this with some sort of loop on the LAN.

Try unplugging everything for an hour or so and see what your BQM looks like

Ian.


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Standard User Natty
(newbie) Mon 13-Nov-17 18:44:21
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: ian007jen] [link to this post]
 
The only devices i have connected via wifi is a Samsung Tab S tablet & three android phones with no uploading \ downloading of any significance other than the odd apps updating, nothing that should cause that kind of latency or packet loss.

As you can see from my graph it suddenly resolved itself between 20th August to 20th Oct with no changes to how my devices are connected or the configuration of the router. All i have plugged into my router is whats needed for it to work, telephone cable from socket to router & power cord. I dont believe its anything to do with my set up but an issue at the exchange, cab or the telephone cable running to my socket. This is why i asked tech support to send out a BT engineer to test it but he fobbed me off, saying if the engineer found no fault then i would be charged a fee.

Edited by Natty (Mon 13-Nov-17 18:45:52)

Standard User GonePostal
(regular) Mon 13-Nov-17 20:03:57
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Natty] [link to this post]
 
Seeing exactly the same as the OP.

On 25th. September we had to re-connect using a new ID and password since when things have not been good. As a starter, the line was capped at 39999 although we are on the 80/20 package and achieve about 70Mbps in normal circumstances. Managed to get through by phone to Tech Support (it was about 01:30) and the cap came off within 36 hours.

However, since 26/10/17 speeds have been all over the place. Typically the weekday download speeds fall off the edge of the cliff from about 17:00 to midnight with the drop being from about 10:00 to midnight at the weekends. At the same time pings to various sites I use for reference rise to about double the normal values.

I have an open ticket with Origin re the speed drop and have submitted various speed test results using http://www.supportal-test.co.uk/ which apparently feeds results directly back to their supplier. These tests have been taken with WiFi turned off and only my laptop connected by ethernet cable. The results include some tests with single figure download speeds.

Mr. Saffron will also be able to see the large number of TBB speedtests I have taken recently (by ethernet cable but with the WiFi enabled on the router) which show the huge disparities over time (and also the big gap between single and multi-threaded downloads at certain times).

I now await feedback from Origin about what they intend to do to alleviate the problem. I am not a technical expert but would guess that the symptoms all point to some sort of congestion.

In those circumstances (and bearing in mind that others on the same AIO cabinet with different ISPs have also noticed significant loss of performance over the same sort of hours as we are seeing) would there be any advantage in trying to find another ISP?

Edited by GonePostal (Mon 13-Nov-17 20:11:06)

Standard User Roksan
(newbie) Mon 13-Nov-17 21:01:32
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
@ GonePostal: I had near on identical experiences, though my ‘upgrade’ date was a few days different. My speed too dropped by half (at the best of times) but a couple of days later syc increased but speeds were everywhere - OK in the day perhaps but evening just about unusable, Netflix wasn’t good at all.

As I had already decided to move on as I was at the end of contract I just didn’t have sufficient patience to spend hours listening to ‘Daft Punk - Get Lucky’ & ‘Rihanna’ again as support was always over an hour (for me) both songs I dislike strongly but were singing them on holiday two weeks later I had heard them so much (from previous issues) - (I thought the words were lets go to a Mexican cafe) So I stuck with the rubbish speeds down to the bitter end. Phoning support late at night (after midnight) will get you quicker response, I found a guy called Kieran to be good on support.

I’m not an ISP jumper having been with VM for ten years or more before Origin. Best of luck sorting your problems, keep phoning them seem to work eventually. Origin aren’t the worst ISP I have used, RedHotAnt was but they aren’t far behind. The thing is up until the last few months Origin were really good: Well for me anyway.

Edited by Roksan (Mon 13-Nov-17 21:06:54)

Standard User MatHal
(newbie) Thu 16-Nov-17 00:18:55
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Natty] [link to this post]
 
As someone who moved to Origin's ADSL service earlier in the year I too am very unhappy.

I moved from Plusnet and immediately experienced a 50% drop in sync speed and similar drop in download speed. Things did not improve during the router 'training' period either.

After about a month I started getting very slow download speeds, especially in the evening, often below 1Mbit on a line which reliably gave 12Mbits with Plusnet. The ping times are very long too. Pings to Google's DNS used to be around 15ms with Plusnet but are sometimes 250ms or more with Origin and never less than 30ms.

Upload speeds are very low too. Upload appears to be capped at 700kbits but rarely achieves that. Nonetheless Origin are getting away with a claim that upload is 'up to' 2Mbits - something that is utterly impossible given the cap!!
On one occasion my router was unable to log-in at all for two days.

My suspicion is that Origin's system is severely congested, especially at busy times.

I've contacted them by phone and in numerous e-mails. The phone call was cut off and not one of my e-mails has been replied to.

This company is the worst ISP I've ever had the misfortune to come across.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 16-Nov-17 09:44:01
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: MatHal] [link to this post]
 
Have you put in a formal complaint. If the service is that bad then complain and if they don't fix it then go to there Alternative Dispute Resolution provider. If it still isn't resolved then they should let you out of contract with no penalty.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 16-Nov-17 10:09:13
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: MatHal] [link to this post]
 
ADSL2+ can only manage up to 2 Mbps (technically 2.5 Mbps) if Annex M extension is used, but that is at the expense of some download speed.

Sounds like they are pushing boundaries on claims

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Natty
(newbie) Wed 29-Nov-17 10:33:42
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Well for some reason my ip address was changed by Origin suddenly, twice in the past two days after being on 145.255.246.xxx since i first signed up in May 2017

This new ip addess 145.255.245.xx was only active for two days but my graph showed none of the latency & packet loss present previously in the short time i was on it before it reset to another ip address below
TBB Graph 28th Nov

My current ip address is now 185.222.219.xxx & this also shows very low latency & no packet loss so far
TBB Graph 29th Nov

Looking at my router logs there was a disconnection lastnight 28th Nov (not uncommon with Origin BB) Router Log

What could be the reason for this? why would a change in ip address fix all my issues with latency & packet loss? i have not changed any settings in my router set up, so its clearly not a problem at my end.

Edited by Natty (Wed 29-Nov-17 10:45:04)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 29-Nov-17 12:33:16
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Natty] [link to this post]
 
Most likely the change in the IP address meant that traffic was been sent via a different route

So not the IP address itself, but the route that the IP block is sent via

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Natty
(newbie) Fri 01-Dec-17 14:22:46
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
So the cause of the high latency & packet loss on my graph is likely down to network congestion on my other ip address?

Does Origin use Plusnet or BT for its network? i know its based in Sheffield

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 01-Dec-17 14:57:08
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Natty] [link to this post]
 
Not the IP address itself, but the network that the IP address and its larger block was being routed across.

PlusNet run the white label BT network

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Fri 01-Dec-17 15:45:29
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Natty] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Natty:
Does Origin use Plusnet or BT for its network? i know its based in Sheffield


They're based in Doncaster.

Your latency graph looks very low on the bottom end. Are you sure you are pinging your IP address or one of their gateways as they use CGNAT.

If you're unsure, look at what IP address your router shows you having been assigned. If the two don't match, you're NAT'd.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host
Standard User adrenalize_
(newbie) Fri 01-Dec-17 23:34:38
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Hmm, well they resell Vodafone broadband too - when I moved house 18 months ago I was changed from Plusnet to Vodafone as the provider Origin use.

My Voda provided connection was initially OK - I continued my up to 40Mbps connection as under contract - but then regraded at contract renewal as I can sync at 70Mbps which is when everything went downhill.

I now get poor single thread downloads particularly at peak - but multiple thread tests OK - but YouTuibe on my TV seems to do single thread which is often poor amongst others.

Sync with exchange is super stable and I can get better single thread at "off peak" hours at times.

Now they've suddenly started giving me huge bills even though I've prepaid and the customer service is diabolical - still no refunds, no call backs when promised.

Oh the joys, roll on the end of contract, I'm off!
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 01-Dec-17 23:41:58
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: adrenalize_] [link to this post]
 
Well uno has an excellent reputation on these forums for both their broadband and their customer service. Worth bearing in mind when you move.

You can probably find cheaper. You could also buy the cheapest car on the market. Or the cheapest smartphone.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 74145/13476Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Natty
(newbie) Sun 03-Dec-17 20:09:25
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Your latency graph looks very low on the bottom end. Are you sure you are pinging your IP address or one of their gateways as they use CGNAT.

If you're unsure, look at what IP address your router shows you having been assigned. If the two don't match, you're NAT'd.

Matt


Well the ip host Thinkbroadband have logged for the graph is 185.216.48.xxx

But when i check my router for the ip it gives the defualt gateway as 145.255.247.xxx

what is NAT'd? is it a problem i need to report to Origin to fix?

This is what i got ticked to enable ping in my router settings
Router Screenshot

Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Mon 04-Dec-17 00:45:29
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Natty] [link to this post]
 
It's not so much the gateway you want but the WAN IP.

Maybe post a traceroute to 8.8.8.8 as that should show if you're CGNAT'd.

It's not a problem they may need to fix if that is the service you've agreed. They may offer IPs which you might need to pay for to avoid the NAT.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host
Standard User Natty
(newbie) Mon 04-Dec-17 02:26:00
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
I found a useful android app called Net Analyzer for the traceroute as i only have a tablet, any other useful test that i can run through it let me know

Traceroute Screenshot

Im not sure if Whois is useful to you but heres the result to 8.8.8.8
https://whois.arin.net/rest/nets;q=8.8.8.8?showDetai...

Standard User Natty
(newbie) Tue 05-Dec-17 14:21:03
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Natty] [link to this post]
 
So what does the above tell you? am i CGNAT'd?

Standard User GonePostal
(regular) Fri 15-Dec-17 00:02:41
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
To update my previous complaint, I received an e-mail from Origin Support on 08/12/17 which included

"We have had confirmation from our network engineers that the fault impacting your service has now been resolved.

We are sorry for any inconvenience caused, and we thank you for your patience and understanding whilst we resolved this matter."

I've been monitoring since then and have not seen any of the previous drops in performance during the evening and weekend periods. Fingers crossed that the problem really is resolved.
Standard User GonePostal
(regular) Mon 08-Jan-18 01:03:10
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
Now reverted to the slow downloads and high pings. After I complained on 01/01/18 I was sent a new password and asked to reconnect but it has made no difference to the abysmal performance at the congested times of day.

Mr. Saffron will be able to see the congestion issues every evening on the BQM.
Standard User Zadeks
(experienced) Mon 08-Jan-18 19:25:12
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
Are you able to jump ship?
Standard User GonePostal
(regular) Tue 09-Jan-18 01:18:50
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Zadeks] [link to this post]
 
I'm waiting for a response from the CEO about leaving without penalty as I've still got about 9 months of an 18 month deal to run. I'll update when/if I get a response - and if a response isn't forthcoming we'll have to go through the whole formal complaint rigmarole.
Standard User adrenalize_
(newbie) Tue 09-Jan-18 08:20:24
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
Hope it goes well, my Origin (Vodafone resold) is similarly poor but just about bearable until the end of contract.

Do keep an eye on your bills if you are on supersaver - they suddenly started charging me despite being on supersaver.

Not sure if he's still there but "Jay" seemed to be the customer service manager and seemed to be the only one that can get things moving.

Will be voting with my feet!
Standard User GonePostal
(regular) Tue 09-Jan-18 21:14:43
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: adrenalize_] [link to this post]
 
Ah, the unexplained mysteries of life. We had an internet drop out at about 02:45 this morning. The router remained connected and was reporting SNR, sync and max attainable speeds but we had no internet access right through the night. We noticed this morning and re-booted the router. This regained connection on a different IP with a marginal drop in sync speed. This evening the connection has been rock-solid with only a marginal speed drop and apart from one spike of packet loss no signs of congestion on the BQM.

No idea whether we are on a different backhaul or whether there has been any work done on the network to take out the congestion but for today at least no complaints about the connection.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 09-Jan-18 21:36:19
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
Ah, the unexplained mysteries of life.
What is life? smile wink

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 74496/13801Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Wed 10-Jan-18 16:33:32
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
Ah, the unexplained mysteries of life.
What is life? smile wink

The bit between birth and death?

John Lewis Broadband
Standard User GonePostal
(regular) Wed 10-Jan-18 21:59:51
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
And then another internet drop-out from 23:45 last night until 00:15 this morning, reconnection on a new IP then a silent reconnection sometime between 11:45 and 20:00 today with yet another IP.

The result; pings all over the place (about 3 times as long as usual on the Origin Broadband speedtest) but the achieved download speed hasn't dropped as much as previously. The new BQM I've set up since I found the silent reconnection is once again showing all the signs of congestion.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 11-Jan-18 08:52:15
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Apprentice:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
Ah, the unexplained mysteries of life.
What is life? smile wink

The bit between birth and death?
I was watching a programme recently where they quoted someone. They were talking about the fact that on gravestones it could state "Here lies Mr Smith, 20 January 1945 - 15 June 2017" - the quote is that "life is the dash between birth and death" - seemed quite apt to me.
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 15-Jan-18 10:16:45
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
I'm waiting for a response from the CEO about leaving without penalty as I've still got about 9 months of an 18 month deal to run. I'll update when/if I get a response - and if a response isn't forthcoming we'll have to go through the whole formal complaint rigmarole.


Assuming he, and the complaints staff haven't already been sacked..
Standard User huwwatkins
(committed) Thu 25-Jan-18 12:33:55
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: Natty] [link to this post]
 
Also seeing high latency in the evening on my Origin FTTC connection. I am currently CGNAT'd so can't set up a BQM. I've asked for this to be removed.
Standard User huwwatkins
(committed) Fri 26-Jan-18 23:10:20
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: huwwatkins] [link to this post]
 
This is the BQM for the CGNAT IP. I'm surprised by how quickly the latency builds up then disappears

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...
Standard User mbames
(member) Sat 27-Jan-18 22:50:00
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: adrenalize_] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adrenalize_:
Hope it goes well, my Origin (Vodafone resold) is similarly poor but just about bearable until the end of contract.


I'm directly with vf and see similar rubbish and variable performance too.

Vodafone Fibre (40/10), Draytek 130, DrayTek 2925, DrayTek AP-910c x 2
(Gone but not forgotten: AP-700, 2820n x 2, 2800vg, 2800, HG612)

Speedtests:
ThinkBB - Mini | ThinkBB - Full | Speedtest.net
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 28-Jan-18 10:14:03
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: huwwatkins] [link to this post]
 
Fairly classic shape and timing for congestion

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User GonePostal
(regular) Tue 30-Jan-18 21:03:37
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
Origin Broadband has now reverted to type on a line synced at 72Mbps.

TBB speedtest shows average 2.3Mbps single thread download:

My Broadband Speed Test

BQM shows:

My Broadband Ping
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 30-Jan-18 21:31:45
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
It doesn't seem (until further notice) to be a good place to be. Maybe in time they will contract sufficient bandwidth, but building a good reputation takes ages. Losing it takes minutes. (Even before the power of the net - see Gerald Ratner)).

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User huwwatkins
(committed) Wed 31-Jan-18 09:45:34
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Re: Origin Broadband Latency & Packet Loss


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
Looks like you are seeing exactly the same latency pattern on your BQM as me. I've got an open call with them but i'm not hopeful.

Even when there isn't congestion the latency fluctuates quite a lot.

They also told me it will take 14 days to apply a static IP to my line!

Edited by huwwatkins (Wed 31-Jan-18 09:47:17)

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