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Standard User JP1970
(newbie) Fri 01-Dec-17 15:13:33
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Moved from Sky to Post Office - please help!


[link to this post]
 
(First Post)

I have an ADSL2+ line straight into the exchange (Exchange Only Line) so it's a great quality line (22.4M sync), but with no option to get FTTC.

I was an O2 broadband customer, bought over by Sky, so I had Sky broadband only, and line rental with the Post Office (which I was happy with).

I've just moved from Sky to the Post Office and have gone from 20Meg to 10Meg download speed.

I use it for VPN to work plus general internet access, but VPN access is now very poor. I was aware their reputation is not great, but my experience with the Post Office (phone line) had been OK up to this point.

I thought with such a good line there was no way speeds could be this low, but it appears that the Post Office are capping the speed of the line with an unnecessarily large noise margin, meaning that a third of the available bandwidth is left unused.

On the Post Office "go-live" date (should that be "go-slow"?), the router stats changed from:

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 22440 kbps 1283 kbps
Line Attenuation 14.0 dB 8.8 dB
Noise Margin 6.1 dB 7.7 dB

to:

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 14968 kbps 1020 kbps
Line Attenuation 16.0 dB 6.7 dB
Noise Margin 12.1 dB 14.14 dB


The Post Office "tech" support claimed there were no caps on speed and that this is as fast as their equipment could go, but it looks to me that either the speed is capped or the required noise margin is set high. Sky tech support had access to these line stats and could change the line profile, but the Post Office claim they have no access to these numbers and can't make any changes. Does anyone know if that's true? Is Talk-Talk capping what it provides to the Post Office, or is it the Post Office capping what they provide to their customers? This doesn't seem to be line profiling starting off slow then increasing over time - they claimed they don't do that. There's been no increase in speed over the last week.

Either way my line speed appears to be capped, which seems contrary to their terms and conditions, but I only got flat denials from the Post Office. They also denied this is sub-standard or half-speed broadband, which is I feel should be undeniable from the evidence I have (18 months of continuous router logs and stats before the change, backing up the figures above).

When I discussed cancellation with them due the the unacceptably poor performance, I was then told that the cooling-off period expired before the "go-live" date, and that the cancellation fees are three time what I would otherwise pay over the full length of the 18 month contract.

I got what seemed to be a standard response from the retentions people to wait 10 days to see if the speed improves, but they couldn't tell me what might change in those 10 days to allow that to happen. In reality that seems unlikely to happen if they won't even admit it's currently capped.

I've obviously made a huge mistake here by moving, but I'm a bit shocked by the apparently intentional slow speed and the lock-in tactics of the contract.

It would cost me three times as much to get rid of this half-speed broadband than to keep it for 18 months (is that type of lock-in even legal?), but it's not even suitable for the VPN access I require (remote desktop and audio).

Any help or advice to get out of this mess without a large cancellation bill would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

JP

Edited by JP1970 (Fri 01-Dec-17 15:37:14)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 01-Dec-17 16:04:47
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Re: Moved from Sky to Post Office - please help!


[re: JP1970] [link to this post]
 
Odd that the attenuation has jumped up 2db ?

Whilst you are right that the SNR looks like some cap in place, that attenuationjump is weird. Duff exchange equipment maybe ?

Standard User baby_frogmella
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 01-Dec-17 16:21:40
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Re: Moved from Sky to Post Office - please help!


[re: JP1970] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JP1970:
the router stats changed from:

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 22440 kbps 1283 kbps
Line Attenuation 14.0 dB 8.8 dB
Noise Margin 6.1 dB 7.7 dB

to:

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 14968 kbps 1020 kbps
Line Attenuation 16.0 dB 6.7 dB
Noise Margin 12.1 dB 14.14 dB


I'm afraid the 12db downstream SNR is the default on a TT based ADSL2+ service. I know if you're on TT direct you can/could get this lowered to 6db but no idea if this also applies to Post Office. I would give PO a call again and ask them if they can lower the downstream SNR to 6db as you have a very stable line. Otherwise you would need to buy a router such as a Billion model which would allow you to artifically lower the SNR and therefore increasing your sync rate to ~ 20 Mbps.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Netgear Nighthawk X10

Edited by baby_frogmella (Fri 01-Dec-17 16:23:36)


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Standard User baby_frogmella
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 01-Dec-17 16:34:08
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Re: Moved from Sky to Post Office - please help!


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
Odd that the attenuation has jumped up 2db ?


That will be down to a change of DSLAM hardware at the exchange as I believe Sky & TT use different manufacturers - i think Sky use Lucent and TalkTalk use Infineon/Lantiq. So the If the OP was to use a Draytek 120/130 Lantiq modem he may see better attenuation but for the sake of 2db i wouldn't bother.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Netgear Nighthawk X10
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 01-Dec-17 17:06:14
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Re: Moved from Sky to Post Office - please help!


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
'm afraid the 12db downstream SNR is the default on a TT based ADSL2+ service.

That sucks ...........

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 01-Dec-17 17:06:50
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Re: Moved from Sky to Post Office - please help!


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Ya live, ya learn. smile

Standard User flippery
(experienced) Fri 01-Dec-17 19:28:17
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Re: Moved from Sky to Post Office - please help!


[re: JP1970] [link to this post]
 
I have same problem with another TTB reseller. Advised upload problem both set at 12db.
As previously said look at Billion.
Bought a 7800N billion from Ebay and download now rock solid at 5.8db. Upload still at 12db. Difference, in my case, able to download netflix in HD rather than SD.

Edited by flippery (Fri 01-Dec-17 19:29:26)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Fri 01-Dec-17 19:47:54
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Re: Moved from Sky to Post Office - please help!


[re: JP1970] [link to this post]
 
You have the standard setup, they use 12db as it prevents line drop outs and that kind of stuff. TalkTalks own network will now run line management, and where it sees fit, apply it down to as low as 3db. I do not think this applies to resellers unfortunately.

Also - the performance of Post Office has and always will be abysmal, it is much much worse than going to TalkTalk direct (which is fine). Post Office are known to not purchase enough backhaul from TalkTalk, and hence speeds suffer drastically at peak hours.

To reiterate, this is not a TalkTalk issue, other resellers can get stats adjusted (but plenty refuse), likewise the extra congestion and slowdowns (over and above the lower sync) are due to PO buying limited backhaul, again something TalkTalk are not responsible for. A TT retail customer will not have these same slowdowns.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 01-Dec-17 19:53:14)

Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Fri 01-Dec-17 20:37:43
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Re: Moved from Sky to Post Office - please help!


[re: JP1970] [link to this post]
 
Were you given speed estimates at the time you signed up and if so have you kept a copy?

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User Mml
(regular) Fri 01-Dec-17 22:57:43
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Re: Moved from Sky to Post Office - please help!


[re: JP1970] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JP1970:
On the Post Office "go-live" date (should that be "go-slow"?), the router stats changed from:

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 22440 kbps 1283 kbps
Line Attenuation 14.0 dB 8.8 dB
Noise Margin 6.1 dB 7.7 dB

to:

Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 14968 kbps 1020 kbps
Line Attenuation 16.0 dB 6.7 dB
Noise Margin 12.1 dB 14.14 dB


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that PO, as a budget provider, were only offering ADSL2 technology that only goes up to around 12 Mbps, and not ADSL2+ as everyone else? At least back in the days when they didn't have a fibre package.

I've checked here and it says their ADSL package is "up to 17 Mbps" - I'm not sure if 17 Mbps figure means the actual speed or is just indicative of ADSL as opposed to faster fibre speeds.
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