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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 07-Dec-17 09:29:23
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Re: TalkTalkBusiness taking forever to fix a fault


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
It is theoretically possible that the server problem caused a routing table issue and that for some reason TalkTalk's routers/switches have a duff routing table following that. In that case it would be TalkTalk that would have to resolve it by refreshing the routing.
Standard User trolleybus
(experienced) Fri 08-Dec-17 11:12:28
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Re: TalkTalkBusiness taking forever to fix a fault


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
It is theoretically possible that the server problem caused a routing table issue and that for some reason TalkTalk's routers/switches have a duff routing table following that. In that case it would be TalkTalk that would have to resolve it by refreshing the routing.


We have found it impossible to get this issue resolved through any channel available to us. It's a ping pong game of Vidahost saying the issue is with TalkTalk and TalkTalk saying the problem is with Vidahost. And to throw a spanner in the works both organisations suggest it is my setup that is at fault with a firewall setting.

The only factual evidence we can put forward is that there is an incomplete trace route between TalKTalk and Vidahost's server ns31.sovdns.com an issue not present if the same command is issue from any other ISP or indeed between TalkTalk and any other server maintained by Vidahost.

It also has to be noted that connectivity issues started immediately after a security patch was applied to ns31.sovdns,com on 29th November. Effectively from that date the ebb and flow of emails to us stopped although 4 days latter we had a work around through the use of VPN technology.

A trace route between TalkTalk and ns31.sovdns.com still fails today. We could move our domain to another of Vidahost servers and all would work OK, but that would mean re-configuration of the email settings of 18 devices with an end result of duplication of historical emails in each client.

A more satisfactory solution for us is to switch ISP and we have kicked off that process. The new ISP will provide us with a VPN service until the new service goes live on 29 December. It is not without costs which we should not have to bear but at least we are spared the time and effort of repeating the same old tests required by TalkTalk and Vidahost.

So that's it for now but forever any customer of TalkTalk will not be able to see our web site hosted on ns31.sovdns.com or send us an email A most unsatisfactory situation.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Fri 08-Dec-17 17:31:27
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Re: TalkTalkBusiness taking forever to fix a fault


[re: trolleybus] [link to this post]
 
What you need is for as many people as possible who are on TalkTalk to raise a fault with TalkTalk saying they can't reach the website.

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8


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Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 08-Dec-17 18:00:24
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Re: TalkTalkBusiness taking forever to fix a fault


[re: trolleybus] [link to this post]
 
It would have been easier to move the website to an accessible server and fix the Outlook problem which I don't believe is as described.
Standard User trolleybus
(experienced) Sun 10-Dec-17 23:26:32
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Re: TalkTalkBusiness taking forever to fix a fault


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
It would have been easier to move the website to an accessible server and fix the Outlook problem which I don't believe is as described.


I have the greatest respect for you and indeed on the surface looks the better option to take. However,
make any kind of configuration change to Outlook and you'll find that historical emails sitting on the server will download again causing duplication to what you already have. There is also not the insignificant issue of going to each email client to enter the new information. The transfer process of moving hosted material from one server to another is estimated to take 24 hours followed by an indeterminate amount of time to sync up the server with all the clients using a pretty slow internet connection. Could be two days before normality returns.

Switching providers is estimated to take no more than a four hour total loss of service and has the benefit of not requiring a change to each email client. What is more the new ISP chosen will be providing a like for like service a lot cheaper. While we wait for the new service to go live, a free VPN service will be provided.

It doesn't solve the issue of TalkTalk customers not being able to communicate with us using email, nor being able to see our web site but at least we can move on with running our business. Eventually the weight of other subscribers in a similar position might see the fault repaired, and good luck to them. Is the fault with TalkTalk or Vidahost? The jury's still out on that one
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 10-Dec-17 23:28:16
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Re: TalkTalkBusiness taking forever to fix a fault


[re: trolleybus] [link to this post]
 
Ok, you're the boss. Good luck
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Mon 11-Dec-17 09:14:09
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Re: TalkTalkBusiness taking forever to fix a fault


[re: trolleybus] [link to this post]
 
Not sure I understand the bit about TalkTalk users being unable to email you. Are you saying TalkTalk's mail servers can't contact your mail server? If it's just user routing that is affected surely it is only people running their own mail servers and not relaying via TalkTalk's servers that would be affected. That would not be that many.

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User trolleybus
(experienced) Mon 11-Dec-17 10:50:10
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Re: TalkTalkBusiness taking forever to fix a fault


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jelv:
Not sure I understand the bit about TalkTalk users being unable to email you. Are you saying TalkTalk's mail servers can't contact your mail server? If it's just user routing that is affected surely it is only people running their own mail servers and not relaying via TalkTalk's servers that would be affected. That would not be that many.


If you are a TalkTalK Business customer you will find that a trace route to ns31.sovdns.com fails to complete. This means you can neither see our site nor send us an email. No issues at all if your with any other ISP.

ns31.sovdns.com is one of a bank of servers operated by Vidahost to host customer domains, That server had a critical security patch applied on 29th November from which point only TalkTalk could not communicate with it, but all other ISPs could. Logically the fault lies with Vidahost, but they claim the issue is with TalkTalk or even our own setup. Over at TalkTalk, it is a blame game suggesting our setup is at fault or sort it out at Vidahost.

It is true you would be hard put to find many computer user who use TalkTalk Business as their ISP and host their domain with Vidahost but remarkably this thread has located another user with the same issues. As we are no closer in having the issue resolved we have three choices of either migrating to anther ISP, finding another hosting company, or shifting our domain to be hosted on another at Vidahost which doesn't have this issue.

The least amount of effort on our part is to simply move to another ISP especially as the other two options would cause significant issues with Outlook which would be a disaster for us. We do not use TalkTalk's email servers to avoid relay issues when connected to any other ISP while travelling.
Standard User trolleybus
(experienced) Sat 16-Dec-17 12:09:42
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Re: TalkTalkBusiness taking forever to fix a fault


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
It is theoretically possible that the server problem caused a routing table issue and that for some reason TalkTalk's routers/switches have a duff routing table following that. In that case it would be TalkTalk that would have to resolve it by refreshing the routing.


My highest accolades go to Ian72 who was spot on with his diagnoses! This morning it was observed that emails were flooding into our mobile devices and sure enough a trace route now completes whereas prevously it failed:

Tracing route to ns31.sovdns.com [195.238.172.50]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 29 ms 29 ms 28 ms 192.168.134.1
2 47 ms 79 ms 45 ms host-62-24-254-203.as13285.net [62.24.254.203]
3 46 ms 46 ms 45 ms host-78-151-228-51.as13285.net [78.151.228.51]
4 47 ms 46 ms 46 ms host-78-151-228-56.as13285.net [78.151.228.56]
5 47 ms 47 ms 47 ms host-78-144-9-65.as13285.net [78.144.9.65]
6 47 ms 48 ms 48 ms uk.slo.ld5.101.r1.misp.co.uk [195.66.225.228]
7 52 ms 49 ms 48 ms uk.slo.prgn.aggr.sw1.misp.co.uk [185.52.26.185]
8 56 ms 50 ms 49 ms uk.slo.prgn.b10.stk1.misp.co.uk [185.52.26.180]
9 47 ms 47 ms 47 ms ns31.sovdns.com [195.238.172.50]

Trace complete.


The turning point to success was an email from TalkTalk on 15 December 2017 at 08:21 which read:

I apologise that previous agents have not grasped the issue you are having. I agree there seems to be a routing issue. I have put the trace routs to our network team to investigate.

And amazingly, within 24 hours the problem was sorted.

We lost our email service on 29th November and obviously contacted our hosting provider Vidahost to resolve the issue. Testing over the next few days illustrated that the problem was well and truly with TalkTalk and a ticket was opened with them on 5th December. Meanwhile the previous day a VPN connection was established to another user who was a BT subscriber to enable us to receive and send emails. No re-configuration of Outlook was required as we use the email servers of Vidahost and not those of TalkTalk.

TalkTalk’s repeated assertions over the next two weeks or so, was that as it was an email issue with another provider, a resolution was only possible by them (Vidahost) despite us demonstrating it was a routing issue within the TalkTalk network, Sensing that we were in a deadlock position we decided to start the process off of migrating to another ISP with our choice being Cloudscape. The migration date is set for 29th December. As it will be a like for like service and Cloudscape will save as money, there seems little point in pulling the plug on this migration.

We now know that a more clued up TalkTalk Business support service could have solved the problem almost instantly but failing to do so has lost them a customer. For sure we our considerably out of pocket with the whole sad affair and thoughts turn to compensation, but there is no chance on that front!
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sat 16-Dec-17 12:11:42
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Re: TalkTalkBusiness taking forever to fix a fault


[re: trolleybus] [link to this post]
 
Good result in time for Christmas smile
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