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Standard User fuzed
(newbie) Wed 07-Feb-18 20:56:52
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Congestion - Cloudscape


[link to this post]
 
I have some serious slow down at peak, after 6pm, though to midnight, I moved to clousdscape after having a discussion with them about having poor service from SSE, which was only resolved once they moved me to their TTB network.

Since I've been with Cloudscape I've had no end of congestion at peak.

I've reported it with cloudscape and they have been good i.e. tried to sort it out, but they've advised there is an issue within the network somewhere, and this needs to be identified to get the issue resolved.

I got a little upset last week, as the slow down was so bad I was getting 4mb TTBX at points, the connection was almost unusable.

I've asked Cloudscape what they are doing to fix this issue, as I'm not happy paying for such a poor service. They've advised that they are now going to move me to another network to see if this fixes the issue.

stats here from random days...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15119039045...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15119879488...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15129333326...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15163981203...

and one from this evening...

not too bad, but still not great.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15180366631...

Any thoughts on if this is something that can be sorted out, as it's been going on since I joined these guys in November.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 07-Feb-18 22:23:40
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
Backhaul capacity issues if that is what it is are always solvable, but the cost and timeline are the big unknowns

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Rhydszz
(newbie) Thu 08-Feb-18 08:17:23
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I've had the same problems with Cloudscape but they won't even respond to my support request. Speed seems fine in the morning, gradually slows down in the afternoon (starting with single thread download) and is abysmal in the evening. I suppose it's either beyond their ability to resolve or they don't want to spend the money.

Anyway, i'v'e already decided that I'm off as soon as the twelve months is up (more hasstle).


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Standard User fuzed
(newbie) Thu 08-Feb-18 09:48:44
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Rhydszz] [link to this post]
 
I've had the same issue with them replying, until I've got a bit annoyed and called them up asking for answers, the last time I heard anything they said they were moving my service from one wholesale provider to another, but I've not been given a time frame.

To be honest if this is not resolved in the next few months I'll be taking it to be ombudsman, I'm not paying them the money I am for such a [censored] service.

I know its not their fault, but the fact is they as a service provider should be getting issues resolved, and or answer questions when asked, they provide me with graphs about their network capacity, which is fine and dandy, but it doesn't resolve the issue for me.

I'm sure it's a capacity issue somewhere, but someone needs to shout loud and hard at openreach or whoever it is that need to resolve it.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 08-Feb-18 11:09:47
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
Why is it not their fault?

Providers are given many options and it may be they've opted for a cheaper high contention service from their wholesaler.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User fuzed
(newbie) Thu 08-Feb-18 11:55:54
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
is that so, I thought it was something to do with the service provider, so they have a duty to sort it out I assume?

I don't know a great deal about the service/contention side of things and how it's sold to customers.

I spoke to UNO about possibly moving service and they said I may have the same problem with them if it is an issue somewhere within the network.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 08-Feb-18 12:31:18
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
You pay them for a service and they are bound by consumer law to supply what the contract states.

A lot depends on whose network they are using, and once you learn that you can skip to a provider that uses an alternate one. A wild guess is we are talking TalkTalk Wholesale links and providers should be able to buy varying degrees of contention but of course 1:1 24/7 is not sustainable in the consumer arena. It is very likely SSE used the same links - the easiest way out and it will not involve any TalkTalk Wholesale would be Sky/BT/PlusNet

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User fuzed
(newbie) Thu 08-Feb-18 12:51:25
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The provider is chesspartner.co.uk, and Cloudscape are using them for the service they provide to me, I found out after a number of delays on the account due to Openreach screw-ups, and wanted to make a complaint. Openreach by accident sent me details of chess who supposedly were providing the service.

They've now given me a date of the 16th Feb for the service to be switched to another wholesale provider, so we'll see if it makes any difference. I do hope so.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Feb-18 13:02:11
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
+1

It is entirely their fault, and up to them to resolve whilst keeping their customers informed.

Standard User fuzed
(newbie) Thu 08-Feb-18 13:13:02
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
have you contacted them to get the issue resolved, I've basically been sending them lots of logs etc, they logged a ticket, and been told its an issue, when asking for updates wouldn't hear anything, had to call to ask for someone to give me an update, only to get a reply when they realised I was a little irate, its been a while now, that this issue has been ongoing, end of November this issue was logged.

I was told by Support (Kevin I think) that it could take three months or longer for Openreach or who ever the issue is with to get this sorted out, which is not good enough.

I thought joining a smaller provider would mean a better service, the only way issues seem to get resolved is when providers are put in the limelight, i.e. shamed on social media etc, which I did with SSE and got results.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 08-Feb-18 15:22:05
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
Never heard of them, but there is a long tail of small unheard of names out there.

Smaller can mean better more personal customer service, but it does not always apply.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 08-Feb-18 17:25:48
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Chess Limited, Company No: 02797895 own the domain. Complicated accounts that I haven't time to analyse.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Thu 08-Feb-18 21:56:43
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yep, that's them. Again another unknown company providing so-called broadband services to providers which seems below par.

[censored] service again tonight - https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15181268692...

I was getting better speeds when I was on ADSL.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Feb-18 06:10:11
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
No I havenít, but thatís because Iím not a customer of theirs.

Standard User fuzed
(learned) Fri 09-Feb-18 09:35:45
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Sorry that question was directed at 'Rhydszz'. smile
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 09-Feb-18 09:54:27
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by fuzed:
Sorry that question was directed at 'Rhydszz'. smile
Whose post has both a Reply button and a quote button wink smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Fri 09-Feb-18 11:47:53
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
yes, I know, sorry must have pressed the wrong reply to button wink lol
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Fri 09-Feb-18 11:49:46
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Rhydszz] [link to this post]
 
have you contacted them to get the issue resolved, I've basically been sending them lots of logs etc, they logged a ticket, and been told its an issue, when asking for updates wouldn't hear anything, had to call to ask for someone to give me an update, only to get a reply when they realised I was a little irate, its been a while now, that this issue has been ongoing, end of November this issue was logged.

I was told by Support (Kevin I think) that it could take three months or longer for Openreach or who ever the issue is with to get this sorted out, which is not good enough.

I thought joining a smaller provider would mean a better service, the only way issues seem to get resolved is when providers are put in the limelight, i.e. shamed on social media etc, which I did with SSE and got results.

I wrote this reply to the wrong person before lol.
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-Feb-18 12:34:31
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
Quite possibly.

Do you know the actual underlying network (BT Wholesale/TTB/Vodafone etc)? If you want to give us a call and ask for me, I can have a look as it may help you to avoid using that (to rule out it being the issue) for any future moves you do.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Fri 09-Feb-18 14:14:13
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Matt,

When asked previously the reply was 'We use the backhaul of Vodafone or BTWholesale, dependent upon who has the best option on a particular exchange.'.

They defiantly don't use TTB (they've advised me of that already).

I've got them switching my service over on the 16th Feb, so if I'm still having issues I will be having words with them about contractual obligations, and I'll possibly give you a call after that. I used to be a Xilo customer many years ago, and you were great when I was with you guys (when you were Xilo).
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-Feb-18 14:27:23
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
My initial thoughts were Vodafone and from the call that was confirmed.

As explained, we stopped offering new Vodafone (ex-C&W) connections due to issues with capacity at exchanges.

With their own cheap retail offerings, some exchanges with only 1Gb backhaul are suffering massively.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host

Edited by uno (Fri 09-Feb-18 14:28:08)

Standard User fuzed
(learned) Fri 09-Feb-18 15:06:44
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Matt for the heads up, yes, there is a major issue, I've had the connection hit 4mb some evenings, to the point where it has become unusable, really [censored] for netflix, youtube etc, viewing webpage is just about manageable.
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Fri 09-Feb-18 16:57:22
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

Chess are a wholesale provider for PSTN lines. We have no connection with them on Broadband provision.

We run an un-contended network in THE and THN, any congestion is at the wholesale provider level, and dependent upon the backhaul the end user is on.

Checking our history I believe this customer is on the Vodafone wholesale network and we are working with them to resolve any issues with over congested cable links that are affecting this customer.

Unfortunately this can take time as any upgrade/remedial work is based on a commercial decision of the provider.

We have recently expanded our interconnects and can now move customers to a choice of alternate backhauls if we see this issue.

Please contact me by PM and we can check your account to see if a move is scheduled.

Cloudscape Connect Ltd
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Fri 09-Feb-18 18:04:55
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
I've been seeing issues since December and finally they admitted congestion and have promised to move me off Voda backhaul to BT.

Speeds down to sub 4Mb, lost packets getting worse by the day. Looking at my ping graph the congestion starts at 9am and just gets worse until midnight. If I'd known they use Voda for backhaul I wouldn't have moved over to them. I moved from Plusnet for the same problem, they wouldn't even acknowledge the problem with single thread downloads.The first 6 months with Clouldscape were fine, this started towards the end of last year.

They don't respond to tickets or emails until you call them. I know they are a small provider and maybe busy etc, but at least an acknowledgement of my query would be nice. I sent an email on Feb 2nd, specifically requesting a reply, I'm still waiting........

I was promised a move within 10 days at the beginning of Jan, apparently BT dragged their heels and the move isn't now happening until Feb 15th. Strange that you are also moving on the day after.

I just wish they would be honest and not string us along promising to move to another backhaul then make us wait over a month to do it.

I also noticed that we had several emails about "major works" that put the network at risk, that aren't even mentioned on the status pages at all?

Its a shame because I am all for supporting the smaller ISP (that Plusnet were when I joined originally). Hopefully this is just a one off and things will improve.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 09-Feb-18 18:15:34
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
Nearly 50 mbps. Where did you get close to that on ADSL?

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 09-Feb-18 18:57:53
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
On multi thread, but for some tasks the single thread speed is more important e.g. watching video

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Fri 09-Feb-18 23:32:35
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
The 'Major Works' was an 'at risk' issue and we offered all our subscribers the option to opt-in to a real time sms feed. In the end the change over from our old hardware platform to our new system went extremely well.

Edited by cloudscape (Fri 09-Feb-18 23:33:23)

The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Sat 10-Feb-18 10:02:35
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I thought ADSL was 24mbps max.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 10-Feb-18 11:14:38
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Yes it is and the poster is complaining of congestion and therefore comparing the 9.3 Mbps single download test to their old ADSL2+ speeds and 9.3 Mbps is well within ADSL2+ ranges.

The difference between the single and multiple download tests is a measure of how congested or some other performance issue on a connection, and when the gap is as wide as the posters you can usually feel it even in things like elements of web pages being slow to appear, video buffering or taking a long time to start play while a suitable buffer is built up.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Sat 10-Feb-18 16:57:57
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
So its not just me then, we at least we have move dates, but agee on the responses to email, I think it's only the one person doing the support at the moment, and he is good when you get to talk to him, but he does miss emails. I asked for an update, and didn't hear anything, so I called them (2 weeks later) and then didn't get a call back, so sent another email (being a little firmer) and got a reply with an update saying I would be moved.

As you've said I'm happy to support the smaller company, as I think you normally do get a better service, lets cross out fingers that the service is fixed and quickly.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Sat 10-Feb-18 18:27:51
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
Yes but if someone missed the emails?

Where would they check, the status pages, these were not updated.

You say the upgrades went well?

According to my TBB graph my line was intermittent during the night. This is more than "at risk"
My Broadband Ping
No explanation for the other outage recently either.

Like I said, I am all for supporting the smaller players in the market, but some meaningful and timely information and replies to emails/support tickets would be nice.

If the timescale this migration has taken is true then you also need to speak to your providers, 20 working days to migrate is frankly unacceptable.

As other posters have mentioned, single thread downloads are so slow and lossy at peak times that video streams frequently stutter and fail. On a 80Mb line this simply shouldn't happen.
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Sat 10-Feb-18 19:39:43
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

Not wanting to get into a tit for tat argument on a public forum, but Multiple emails were sent. The first on the 08/01/2018 and then a follow up reminder on 19/01/2018.

If anyone missed the first they surely would have seen the second. Both invited customers to subscribe to a free txt feed service giving real time updates.

Last time we had maintenance schedule, back in December, although it was posted on the status page we had hundreds of support requests during the at risk period. This time we send 2 emails and set up a txt feed which was heavily subscribed to and I believe we had 2 support requests during the at risk period. We have also had feed back from multiple customer commending us on our pre-notification and txt response system.

We have had no other outages recently. If a customer has an outage they can call, email or txt us. We are aware that Vodafone had an outage in some areas last weekend, but we had no notification from Vodafone and our Incident Status from them give no indication of any issue, we have since raised this with them.

As you are aware we have now lit up several other interconnects, but it is not possible to just get a link in place. The work on the 22nd was to implement these and add additional resilience.

As a small provider we are reliant on our reputation and try our best to go the extra mile.

Regards
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Sat 10-Feb-18 20:43:13
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
I've not seen the quality monitor, I'll set this up to take a look at the service. I do think Cloudscape need to look at the service being provided by Vodafone, and maybe do what Uno have done, and to drop that as a service.
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Sat 10-Feb-18 21:59:10
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

Just to qualify my last post.

The Network work that we did on the 22nd was to add additional wholesale interconnects to enable us to provide the best connection based on availability and quality on an exchange by exchange basis.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User jdigz7
(regular) Sun 11-Feb-18 02:15:05
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cloudscape:
Hi,

Not wanting to get into a tit for tat argument on a public forum, but Multiple emails were sent. The first on the 08/01/2018 and then a follow up reminder on 19/01/2018.

If anyone missed the first they surely would have seen the second. Both invited customers to subscribe to a free txt feed service giving real time updates.

Last time we had maintenance schedule, back in December, although it was posted on the status page we had hundreds of support requests during the at risk period. This time we send 2 emails and set up a txt feed which was heavily subscribed to and I believe we had 2 support requests during the at risk period. We have also had feed back from multiple customer commending us on our pre-notification and txt response system.

We have had no other outages recently. If a customer has an outage they can call, email or txt us. We are aware that Vodafone had an outage in some areas last weekend, but we had no notification from Vodafone and our Incident Status from them give no indication of any issue, we have since raised this with them.

As you are aware we have now lit up several other interconnects, but it is not possible to just get a link in place. The work on the 22nd was to implement these and add additional resilience.

As a small provider we are reliant on our reputation and try our best to go the extra mile.

Regards



You aren't doing too much of a good job of preserving your companies reputation here.

You still haven't addressed the fact that he's been waiting 20 Working days for a backhaul change that takes 10 Working days from order placed on any other provider.

Like said gentleman I am certainly all for paying the extra for good service from small companies and understand things go wrong but it's not very professional to just point the finger at your wholesaler and expect to keep a good reputation for service.


I think in the interest if helping your reputation you should now converse with these customers with issues directly and not on the public forum and resolve their issues.
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Sun 11-Feb-18 04:31:29
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: jdigz7] [link to this post]
 
Hi Jdigz7,

"I think in the interest if helping your reputation you should now converse with these customers with issues directly and not on the public forum and resolve their issues."

That has already been done, they both have their committed dates. We are not using this forum to resolve any issues, just commenting on posts made. The migration orders for both of these customers were placed before the first post in this thread was made.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Sun 11-Feb-18 13:56:41
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
yes, as mentioned I have had a migration date so I will wait for this to happen and I will reply with updates as to whether the move has improved the service. I'll be honest I prefer using cloudscape as a provider just because I get to speak to a human being, the service has been great apart from the congestion issues.

My biggest gripe is the fact I have been charged full price for this service, throughout the time the issues have been ongoing. I could have been paying Vodafone £20 a month for the same congested service, as it's provided on their network (and I'm a voda mobile customer).
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Mon 12-Feb-18 16:15:38
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Just reviewed the post and had to scroll down to notice the single download test speed. The 48 mbps jumped off the page initially.

Might be worth including the single speed test in the bold area as well as the multiple.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Mon 12-Feb-18 17:47:52
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
I just want to reiterate what has already been mentioned, my migration order took over 10 working days (2 weeks) just to get a date for the migration that was a further 10 days later (2 weeks). I was initially advised that I was being migrated on Jan 11th.

No explanation or apology has ever been offered to me apart from blaming the provider, I am always having to chase you and then it takes many emails/support requests to get a reply. I am still awaiting a reply to an email I sent to you on Feb 2nd.

I too am put out that I am paying for a degraded service that I first reported to you nearly 5 months ago. First report was Sept 4th 2017 (Ticket #158373).

I left a cheaper service to get a more reliable and robust connection, that last 3 months have been far from that at peak times.

I don't really like airing my grievances on a public forum, but the level of response and action being taken with this matter is frankly unacceptable.

Even a reply with an acknowledgement would at least mean the message has reached you?

My migration should happen this week, lets hope this resolves the issue.

Edited by Philce (Mon 12-Feb-18 18:23:47)

ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Mon 12-Feb-18 19:20:35
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Hi Phil,

I understood that you had spoken to our Leicester Office relating to the query on the 2nd. If that was not the case then please email or call us.

If you talk to our Leicester I am sure that they will be happy to discus any remaining issues you have. We generally answer calls within 3 to 5 rings.

Regards
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Tue 13-Feb-18 10:47:50
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
I emailed on the 2nd, in reply to an email sent by Richard.

I still await a reply.

Whilst I appreciate the fact that the calls are answered within 5 rings, unless you can actually speak to somebody who can help me that isn't really a valid comment. Check the ticket thread, you can see messages for me requesting calls back.

Edited by Philce (Tue 13-Feb-18 10:51:10)

ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Tue 13-Feb-18 11:43:19
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Hi Philip,

Again, I understand you were emailed on 2nd Feb, as below:

"Dear Phil,

Further to your enquiry, your contract is for 12 months from the 28th June 2017. However, once this carrier change is made if the speed issue is not resolved we will waive any termination fees and release you from the contract without penalty.

Whilst we appreciate this has taken sometime to resolve and this is frustrating for you, with localised congestion we have to prove the issue and provide an opportunity for the carriers to resolve the issue before we can force a carrier switch.

Once the carrier switch has taken place, if you do have any speed issues (or any other issues) then please do not hesitate to contact me and I will arrange for the early termination of your contract at no cost.

In the meantime, if I can be of any further help or assistance, please don't hesitate to get in touch."

also on the 1st Feb your open ticket was updated with:

02/01/2018 12:44 pm
Hi Phil,

The order is now showing as committed for 15/2/18

Regards

We do not have a Richard? But the email, above, was from Robert.

Regards
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Tue 13-Feb-18 12:59:33
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
Lets see what happens on Thursday.

Hopefully you will acknowledge that we have been suffering for an extended period and actually do something about it.

Still no explanation for the extended period it has taken to resolve this.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Tue 13-Feb-18 20:56:29
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Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
I sincerly hope that the migration works because this is now totally unacceptable.

Cannot stream anything and browsing is timing out all the time.

Why cant you respond to my repeated requests for information regarding the delays and the fact that we are suffering degraded service?


My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by Philce (Tue 13-Feb-18 20:58:32)

Standard User fuzed
(learned) Tue 13-Feb-18 21:44:57
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
the worst I've had is around 3mb down, and as above it's worse than poor. I hope it gets sorted when the switchover happens, if not then I will be asking to leave as it has gone on long enough.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 14-Feb-18 09:24:34
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Philce:
Why cant you respond to my repeated requests for information regarding the delays and the fact that we are suffering degraded service?
I have a feeling this is all you are going to get:
Whilst we appreciate this has taken sometime to resolve and this is frustrating for you, with localised congestion we have to prove the issue and provide an opportunity for the carriers to resolve the issue before we can force a carrier switch.
Not unusual for providers to only give that sort of level of detail.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Wed 14-Feb-18 10:16:23
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
In reply to a post by Philce:
Why cant you respond to my repeated requests for information regarding the delays and the fact that we are suffering degraded service?
I have a feeling this is all you are going to get:
Whilst we appreciate this has taken sometime to resolve and this is frustrating for you, with localised congestion we have to prove the issue and provide an opportunity for the carriers to resolve the issue before we can force a carrier switch.
Not unusual for providers to only give that sort of level of detail.


It shouldn't take over month to migrate to another provider.
Whoever is posting on here on behalf of Cloudscape is very fast to reply when its convenient to them. When I specifically ask for information or mention that I don't think I should be paying for a degraded service I get the same response to email and support tickets, silence.

Edited by Philce (Wed 14-Feb-18 10:18:37)

ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Wed 14-Feb-18 11:15:35
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
In the interest of disclosure with regards to the time taken, please see our relevant responses:

On 11 Jan 2018, at 09:42,

11/01/2018 11:18 am

Hi Phil,

This will take a minimum of 10 working days. Your IP should remain the same as the change will occur after our network expansion on 22nd which integrates these new routes.

and then:

24/01/2018 10:51 am

Hi Phil,

Regards you previous question, we went live on our new network on Monday, your migration order is has been placed and we are waiting for a commit date.

31/01/2018 2:50 pm

Hi Phil,

We did ask for a manual update by email and received this:

"The order has been placed, just that the robotics haven't come back with a committed date yet and this should update shortly."


01/02/2018 12:44 pm
Hi Phil,

The order is now showing as committed for 15/2/18

Regards
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Wed 14-Feb-18 11:51:17
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cloudscape:
In the interest of disclosure with regards to the time taken, please see our relevant responses:

On 11 Jan 2018, at 09:42,

11/01/2018 11:18 am

Hi Phil,

This will take a minimum of 10 working days. Your IP should remain the same as the change will occur after our network expansion on 22nd which integrates these new routes.

and then:

24/01/2018 10:51 am

Hi Phil,

Regards you previous question, we went live on our new network on Monday, your migration order is has been placed and we are waiting for a commit date.

31/01/2018 2:50 pm

Hi Phil,

We did ask for a manual update by email and received this:

"The order has been placed, just that the robotics haven't come back with a committed date yet and this should update shortly."


01/02/2018 12:44 pm
Hi Phil,

The order is now showing as committed for 15/2/18

Regards


You guys are totally missing the point.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 14-Feb-18 11:53:52
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Which point? It appears they've answered the question as to the timescales - it may not be to your satisfaction but it is there. So is it that they haven't answered why you are paying full price for a degraded service? Perhaps changing the question to "what compensation will they pay for the poor service quality?" would help?
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Wed 14-Feb-18 12:33:27
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
The question I'd be asking is, assuming the work on 15th fixes it, why has it taken them so long? From the opening post:
In reply to a post by fuzed:
Any thoughts on if this is something that can be sorted out, as it's been going on since I joined these guys in November.


jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Wed 14-Feb-18 12:37:20
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Just email us or call us regarding this issue. You already have the email address of our billing team as you have been in communication with them regards the migration.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Wed 14-Feb-18 13:08:34
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
Which point? It appears they've answered the question as to the timescales - it may not be to your satisfaction but it is there. So is it that they haven't answered why you are paying full price for a degraded service? Perhaps changing the question to "what compensation will they pay for the poor service quality?" would help?


The point is that they acknowledged the problem on Jan 11th (if not before).

Advised me that they would move me over after their network upgrade on Jan 22nd. Advising me of the 10 day turn around at that point. It took 10 days just to get the appointment booked. "The order has been placed, just that the robotics haven't come back with a committed date yet and this should update shortly" isn't really a satisfactory reason for the delay is it?

Here we are nearly 4 weeks later (20 days) and still no resolution to my original issue.

And yes I would have expected some kind of compensation of my monthly payments to cover the issue, they originally raised this, and it was confirmed with Vodafone.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Wed 14-Feb-18 13:21:24
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
I've not had any compensation due to the degraded service either, I did speak to someone on the phone before the move over date, and they said they would look into doing something on my bill for the next month, which didn't happen, so again I paid a lot more for a [censored] service again this month.

I'm sure Cloudscape have the ability to claim back their charges from Vodafone/etc for poor service.

Edited by fuzed (Wed 14-Feb-18 13:21:46)

Standard User Philce
(experienced) Wed 14-Feb-18 13:23:20
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cloudscape:
In the interest of disclosure with regards to the time taken, please see our relevant responses:

On 11 Jan 2018, at 09:42,

11/01/2018 11:18 am

Hi Phil,

This will take a minimum of 10 working days. Your IP should remain the same as the change will occur after our network expansion on 22nd which integrates these new routes.

and then:

24/01/2018 10:51 am

Hi Phil,

Regards you previous question, we went live on our new network on Monday, your migration order is has been placed and we are waiting for a commit date.

31/01/2018 2:50 pm

Hi Phil,

We did ask for a manual update by email and received this:

"The order has been placed, just that the robotics haven't come back with a committed date yet and this should update shortly."


01/02/2018 12:44 pm
Hi Phil,

The order is now showing as committed for 15/2/18

Regards


You also missed out the repeated requests from me asking for this promised date there are at least 8 messages and phone calls from me asking for updates for the migration, its not something I am going to put on here, but you really cant just keep posting one sided messages basically saying you have done nothing wrong. I initially raised this last year, jumped through all your hoops with speed tests etc for most of Jan this year.

I would email you or update my ticket, but on past performance I don't see the point as I wont get any meaningful replies.

If I wanted to pay £20 a month I would have just joined Vodafone directly and put up with it.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Wed 14-Feb-18 13:28:28
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
I got an email yesterday saying 'resolved' when the move hasn't even happened, which I asked as to why it was resolved, and the reply was that there was a committed date. How on earth is that resolving an issue.

I've obviously replied back with that the issue is not resolved until I say it is resolved, to which I've not had a reply!!
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 14-Feb-18 13:52:43
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Advised me that they would move me over after their network upgrade on Jan 22nd. Advising me of the 10 working day turn around at that point.
If that is relating to what was posted as the timeline by Cloudscape then I think you misunderstood it - I did on the first reading.

The timeline was it would take a minimum of 10 days to move you. However, they couldn't do that until after their network expansion which wasn't happening until 22/1. On 24/1 they had placed your order. 10 working days from 24/1 would be 7/2 and they are showing a commitment of 15/2 so the "minimum working 10 days" has turned in to 16 working days - an increase but not that massive. So from the original statement they lost 2 days placing the order on 24/1 rather than 22/1 and 6 days on top of the "minimum" quoted. So, they are 8 working days later than they might have been if all had gone fully to plan.
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Wed 14-Feb-18 13:58:55
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

I believe the response does say "Please re-open if the issue is not resolved to your satisfaction."

As a commit date was given the ticket was closed pending any further response. Apologies if that seems impolite.

We are sure that the network move will solve your issue.

Regards

Edited by cloudscape (Wed 14-Feb-18 13:59:41)

The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Wed 14-Feb-18 14:10:17
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, I do hope it does, and yes it does say that, I think it was the issue of 'Resolved, closing ticket', which I didn't see.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Wed 14-Feb-18 14:52:22
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
You could show a small degree of competence by replying to the correct post - I didn't think ian72 had an issue with you!

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Wed 14-Feb-18 15:03:24
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
Has ian72 been in communication with you regarding the migration? It is his post you have replied to!

Try learning how to use this forum!

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Wed 14-Feb-18 15:05:02
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
no need to be rude Jelv, it doesn't help the situation.
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Wed 14-Feb-18 15:11:37
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
I was replying to fuzed, and while I had the reply box open Ian72 posted. By the time I had read, corrected and posted my reply the post from ian72 was in-between.

As Fuzed rightly says 'no need to be rude Jelv'. I think it is quite obvious from the conversation whom I was replying to, and fuzed correctly identified that fact as you can see from his response.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 14-Feb-18 15:45:47
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
If you look in the headers of the post it was me you replied to but I wasn't going to correct and just assumed fuzed was likely to see the post. If you reply directly to a users post then they can get a notification that the reply was posted. The forum has some differences to other forums in the way threaded and flat mode works.

PS - having the reply box open already before I posted means the forum would not have posted it as a response to me. My post must already have been there and you clicked reply on it - no biggee but if you want to reply to an individual then clicking reply on their specific post is how it is done - in this case you must have clicked reply on my post therefore it must already have been there for you to be able to reply to it. I am not aware of any point the forum has posted a reply to a post that wasn't there when the post was started.

Edited by ian72 (Wed 14-Feb-18 15:47:49)

Standard User Philce
(experienced) Wed 14-Feb-18 17:50:23
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Fuzed replied to my message earlier, as has been said already its very easy to reply to the wrong poster, especially when in flat mode and where multiple quotes are in a post.
No harm done and no offence taken in my part.

The last reply from the ISP does confirm my opinion of them now, blunt, unhelpful and frankly rude. The last sentence in the post sums the support I have experienced in a nutshell.

They say a service is only as good until it goes wrong, unfortunately what was a service running with no issues and insignificant downtime has now left a very sour taste where a small amount of work on the part of the support team could have avoided this whole episode.
Standard User trolleybus
(experienced) Wed 14-Feb-18 18:56:44
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
To the OP

One person has a problem with his internet connection and this thread expands to give the impression that all subscribers to Cloudscape have got major issues. Well I don't believe this is the case. There is a localised issue whos geographical location has not been stated. If you want nicely crafted communications delivered in a minumal time frame then subscriptions levels would have to rise significantly across the board

If repairs take an inordinate amount of time in your book, then you need to up your care level. If the internet is mision critical to you, then you obviously need a second internet service put in. We are all beholding to third parties to effect a repair who may have more important tasks to do ahead of your issues.

If you were with another ISP would the repair have been any quicker or status information reaching you every few hours? No of course not.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 14-Feb-18 22:20:45
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Philce:
Fuzed replied to my message earlier, as has been said already its very easy to reply to the wrong poster, especially when in flat mode and where multiple quotes are in a post.
Every post has a Reply button. Simples.

It doesn't matter how many quotes or whatever else are within it. You want to reply to a post/poster, click the Reply on that post. Or the Quote button of the post of course.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Thu 15-Feb-18 04:39:37
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
The explanation seems to suggest the delay was because they needed to make changes to their network first to allow for the changes you requested to work.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Thu 15-Feb-18 16:17:20
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
HI Phil,

Has your migration taken place today as planned? Would be very keen to get your initial feedback as another Cloudscape user seeing the same issues on a Vodafone backhaul and awaiting transfer.

Thanks
Ben
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Thu 15-Feb-18 19:05:44
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
Yes, the migration happened just after midnight.

To be honest I am disappointed.

My Broadband Speed Test

Ill check again later this evening.

Ping graph isn't looking good so far, latency has increased and there are dropped packets everywhere.

Just to confirm the connection was not in use at all during the day.

My Broadband Ping

Edited by Philce (Thu 15-Feb-18 19:19:54)

Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Thu 15-Feb-18 19:16:19
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Interesting, thanks for the update.


Do you have a quality monitor set up on your line? This is a snapshot of mine over the last 24 hours:

My Broadband Ping

Would be interesting to see how yours now compares.

And a current speedtest, which we will all agree is dross for a 78mb service

My Broadband Speed Test

I believe my migration is schedules for 27th Feb, but considering just ordering another product to be honest if the improvement is so little your side.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Thu 15-Feb-18 19:21:19
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
Your line is much worse than mine, I've just edited my last post with the TBB ping test.

Lets see what happens later this evening.

Latest speed test
My Broadband Speed Test


This test was just after I migrated
My Broadband Speed Test

At least the upload is stable.....

Edited by Philce (Thu 15-Feb-18 19:26:37)

Standard User Philce
(experienced) Thu 15-Feb-18 19:28:20
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Just noticed this on the status pages.

14/02/18 We are aware of an issue affecting some broadband circuits. We have discovered
a load balancing issue resulting in a slow down of throughput. Our engineers are
Currently working on a resolution.

http://support.cloudscapeconnect.com/pages/known-issues

Kevin was on here yesterday, strange he didnt mention it?
Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Thu 15-Feb-18 19:43:24
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, is that ping test graph showing a significant improvement or roughly the same as previous to the migration?

It's really the most frustrating thing to see your speeds vary so much isn't it, here is a test from my line at a quiet time, and I have seen significantly better than this too (just wasn't logged in then!):

My Broadband Speed Test

To be honest, those lower speeds your seeing now are about what I used to get when I first subbed to CloudScape. At that time I raised the single thread speeds as an issue and was basically fobbed off, but as even at 15-20Mbps I was able to stream 4k OK I wasn't too bothered with it. Now, I'm lucky to retain a stream in HD on Netflix at peak times.
Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Thu 15-Feb-18 19:48:45
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Philce:
Just noticed this on the status pages.

14/02/18 We are aware of an issue affecting some broadband circuits. We have discovered
a load balancing issue resulting in a slow down of throughput. Our engineers are
Currently working on a resolution.

http://support.cloudscapeconnect.com/pages/known-issues

Kevin was on here yesterday, strange he didnt mention it?


Strange? Yes.

Surprising? I don't think we need to comment.

I would go so far say that the overall feelings of customers purveyed in this thread, coupled with the responses and (admittedly, poorly conveyed by the text medium) apparant tone of response from CloudScape, mirrors my own experiences thus far.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Thu 15-Feb-18 20:27:51
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ben88:
Thanks, is that ping test graph showing a significant improvement or roughly the same as previous to the migration?

It's really the most frustrating thing to see your speeds vary so much isn't it, here is a test from my line at a quiet time, and I have seen significantly better than this too (just wasn't logged in then!):

My Broadband Speed Test

To be honest, those lower speeds your seeing now are about what I used to get when I first subbed to CloudScape. At that time I raised the single thread speeds as an issue and was basically fobbed off, but as even at 15-20Mbps I was able to stream 4k OK I wasn't too bothered with it. Now, I'm lucky to retain a stream in HD on Netflix at peak times.


The ping test is slightly better, its only the first 24 hours so not really a true sample.

This is the ping test when I migrated.

My Broadband Ping

Clearly something has changed.
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Thu 15-Feb-18 21:01:16
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Hi Chrysalis,

Spot on. We have completely restructured our network, added additional redundancy, added multiple load balance routers to manage our BGP.

This had been in planning for a while and was not linked to the Vodafone congestion issue which only affects a very small number of our customers, and these are now being moved onto new routes.

We planned to switch over in December but there were issues with the new configuration so we rolled back until we identified and resolved these. We then switched to the new network on 22nd January.

Regards
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Thu 15-Feb-18 21:06:44
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

That was resolved yesterday. The status page has update to reflect that.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Thu 15-Feb-18 21:10:30
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
Hi Ben88,

If you are Ben P, then I believe your migration date is set for 27th Feb.

Regards
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Thu 15-Feb-18 21:30:46
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cloudscape:
Hi,

That was resolved yesterday. The status page has update to reflect that.


So clearly moving me to another route hasn't fixed this problem.

My Broadband Speed Test

As per your email please confirm I can migrate out without penalty.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Thu 15-Feb-18 22:23:17
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Does DLM still play a part on migrations?!?
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Thu 15-Feb-18 22:29:12
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by fuzed:
Does DLM still play a part on migrations?!?

Not sure, although X6 speeds are near to normal.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Thu 15-Feb-18 22:36:17
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
That's pretty much always the case anyway, I normally see half decent X6 speeds, but poor TTBX speeds, i.e. single thread (Netflix, streaming, video calling is POOR or doesn't work).

Can cloudscape comment on who the new wholesale provider is, it was Vodafone, who is it now?
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Thu 15-Feb-18 22:42:34
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Please contact the office on the email address you have regards that.

Still puzzled at the issue you are having, just run this from one of our home test lines:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15187340373...

This cct only syncs at around 32:10 and has an old NTE and the router is on an extension.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Thu 15-Feb-18 22:55:56
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
The backhaul on the ccts we have moved now go over BTW, we can also move ccts to TTB now.

We know the issue those on this thread are having is not on our network as it is such a small number experiencing this and our current peak load on our interconnects is around 50% of our capacity.

We have monitored test ccts in offices and homes in multiple locations and currently none of these are seeing this.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Fri 16-Feb-18 10:47:48
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
Still nowhere near where I was just after I started with Cloudscape, still dropped packets all day, even with the connection not in use.

I am still awaiting a reply to my request to migrate out (I sent an email in reply to the email I received)

My Broadband Speed Test

Prior test, evening time too.
My Broadband Speed Test

Monitoring

Current

My Broadband Ping


Last year, note the only latency is during use.
My Broadband Ping

Edited by Philce (Fri 16-Feb-18 10:50:32)

ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Fri 16-Feb-18 10:59:50
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Hi Philice,

Looking in the outbound email logs I can see an email was sent to you this morning at 10:38 this morning.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Fri 16-Feb-18 11:01:34
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cloudscape:
Hi Philice,

Looking in the outbound email logs I can see an email was sent to you this morning at 10:38 this morning.


Yes they crossed, I've replied already..
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Sun 18-Feb-18 08:30:53
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
With a new VDSL/router in place the speeds are different between TBB and DSL reports on single thread.

Any reasons for this?? (Directed at TBB staff and other techies)

Im looking at the single thread speeds in particular.

Thanks

My Broadband Speed Test

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/29907484
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Sun 18-Feb-18 11:08:34
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
That is a blatantly obvious example of contention - all transfer threads are being slowed and a decent speed can only be obtained by aggregating multiple threads. The dslreports test will use multiple threads to give an estimate of the best speed possible. But looking at the graph on the dslreports results that also looks far from good for early on a Sunday morning. It should quickly ramp up to full speed and then stay there.

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Sun 18-Feb-18 11:36:10
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
Jelv, the DSL reports test is a single thread too, that's why I asked the question.

Perhaps a routing/peering issue?

I was migrated away from Vodafone on Thursday, seen some improvement, but something still isn't right.

Cloudscape are investigating further.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Sun 18-Feb-18 11:41:29
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Philce:
Jelv, the DSL reports test is a single thread too, that's why I asked the question.
In that case the later half of the test must have hit a period when there was a bit of a break in other users downloading. If you run repeated dslreports tests do the graphs and results vary a lot? That would indicate somewhere along the connection between you and the speed test server something is running near full capacity and sometimes over.

Edit: bit in italics added in light of Andrew's comment

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8

Edited by jelv (Sun 18-Feb-18 11:53:01)

Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Sun 18-Feb-18 11:44:32
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
In dslreports speedtest preferences you can set the number of streams. Have you tried running multiple download streams to see if that shows a similar difference to the tbb x1 and x6?

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 18-Feb-18 11:45:42
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
It might also show that the issues are not just between exchange and provider, but provider and wider internet and the various routes leaving provider may have varying levels of congestion on them.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Sun 18-Feb-18 11:52:22
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks - absolutely right. I've modified my post for clarity.

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Mon 19-Feb-18 12:24:42
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hi Andrew,

We have already addressed this I believe in this thread. We have absolutely no issues between our interconnects with the various suppliers and the wider internet.

We did briefly have a load balancing issue on Feb 14th which was addressed and remedied the afternoon it was identified.

We are not seeing congestion on the links from the providers to us. But we are seeing congestion on a very few individual connections most of whom are already participating in this thread.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 19-Feb-18 14:42:27
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
Are you saying it is the users own traffic causing congestion? Or is there something else that can cause congestion on an "individual connection"?
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Mon 19-Feb-18 15:00:29
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Hi Ian72,

No,of course we are not saying that. We are saying it looks like congestion on a link somewhere between the user and where the traffic hits us.

We have been gathering data and this is being passed to the carrier concerned.

Edited by cloudscape (Mon 19-Feb-18 15:00:58)

The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 19-Feb-18 15:03:38
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
OK, fair enough. Backhaul link with your wholesaler rather than links from yourselves to peering.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Tue 20-Feb-18 11:04:01
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
OK so a little update, my connection was moved over on Friday, I've been at home some of the weekend so have been able to do a few tests, there is still some congestion, but nothing like the previous issues I was getting.
Lowest speed I've seen is 17mb, but the majority of the busy periods it's been around 30mb to 70mb, i'd say averaging out at around 40ish - 50mb.

a few tests over the weekend and Monday night can be seen below.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15189000797...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15189043895...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15189076832...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15189080051...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15189082967...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15189092307...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15189098352...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15189622906...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15189837693...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15189839592...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15189907382...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15190777855...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15190778912...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15190781468...

It's not perfect, but much better than it's been, the service is usable, I'll update over the next week or so.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Tue 20-Feb-18 14:02:31
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
a little update from Mr Saffron on the data graph side of things shows the results as they were at the times I did the tests - hope this displays correctly:



Date Down HTTPx1
Mon 19/02/2018 22:09 59.42 Mbps
Mon 19/02/2018 22:05 65.72 Mbps
Mon 19/02/2018 22:04 66.58 Mbps
Mon 19/02/2018 22:03 58.63 Mbps
Mon 19/02/2018 22:03 60.85 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 21:52 68.80 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 21:48 68.25 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 21:45 54.21 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 21:44 51.66 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 20:21 57.84 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 19:59 46.30 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 19:58 37.52 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 19:57 27.03 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 19:56 33.35 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 18:31 67.55 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 18:30 60.67 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 18:15 69.77 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 17:07 69.58 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 17:03 69.41 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 17:01 69.51 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 16:57 69.70 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 14:35 68.73 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 14:33 69.62 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 13:58 69.84 Mbps
Sun 18/02/2018 00:16 69.44 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 23:23 69.53 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 23:13 69.45 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 22:58 69.14 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 22:53 69.37 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 22:48 63.20 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 21:53 54.40 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 21:44 55.60 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 20:41 52.03 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 17:25 69.06 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 17:21 69.87 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 17:20 69.80 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 17:19 68.84 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 17:08 69.29 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 14:28 69.86 Mbps
Sat 17/02/2018 14:25 69.34 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 23:23 55.42 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 23:15 56.11 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 21:31 46.03 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 21:22 34.59 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 21:13 29.15 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 21:05 34.74 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 21:03 31.07 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 21:01 26.80 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 20:52 40.07 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 20:46 38.24 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 20:33 50.45 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 20:31 50.51 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 20:30 64.42 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 17:55 64.81 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 08:14 68.13 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 08:13 69.56 Mbps
Fri 16/02/2018 07:35 69.54 Mbps
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Tue 20-Feb-18 14:24:15
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
Looks like a massive improvement for you.

Mine isn't massively better, I've gone from sub 20Mb tests to high 20's or low 30's at all times. (Line is in solid sync at 80/20, line length 300M)

It's being investigated further....
Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Tue 20-Feb-18 15:05:34
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
Those single thread results would be a delight for me at the minute, a week to go until I migrate to BTW from Vodafone. From 6pm to 11pm I am lucky to see over 1.2Mbps, check these out:

My Broadband Speed Test

My Broadband Speed Test

My Broadband Speed Test


I was browsing the internet (i.e. looking at alternative providers and how they deal with issues like this) and came across this shining example from A&A, with relation to a very similar issue

https://aastatus.net/2358

From my experience with Cloudscape, I do think that they genuinely have the ability to be a class leading ISP, but there is huge disparity from the current service they provide to the levels of service on display there from A&A.

It's certainly frustrating as a consumer, especially as someone who is technically capable and willing to help them and provide diagnostics on issues, they just don't seem to really want to know (maybe they do, but that is the overriding impression I am left with, maybe it comes down to attitude/approach)

Migrating to alternative backhaul isn't really fixing this problem, it's simply brushing it under the carpet, and likely will end up affecting others pushed through the same node with the bandwidth issue. Sure, it may be the quickest route to a resolution for the affected lines, and I'm more than happy with that, even if it has resulted in 3 days short of a month of basically unusable service.

Obviously, I don't know everything that Cloudscape have done here. We have no knowledge of the dialogue they have ongoing or have had with Vodafone, and I'm certianly not going to tell them how to run their business, but as a customer I certainly feel uninformed throughout the process and as if the issue hasn't really been thoroughly investigated, be that right or wrong.

The general 'its not us' party line that is towed really grates on me as well. As a customer, we don't really care whom is the causation of an issue, the fact is that the ISP is contracted to provide service, and undertake on their clients behalf, ensuring solid service delivery from the wholesaler / back haul providers. shoulder brushing and hand washing is just not attractive from any business.

Ultimately, I will give them to the migration date. if a week later I still see single thread issues with the service and no appreciable concern or action to solve it, I'll have to seek an alternative, which is a shame as given the choice I'd rather support a newer smaller business, hence going with them in the first place.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Tue 20-Feb-18 15:57:02
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
HI,

As a previous AAISP user I know how good their service and especially faults (they got my 2500+M line working at near 6Mb reliably when prior to that it struggled to maintain a 3Mb connection. Plusnet said that there was nothing they could do to fix.

However its the near doubling of cost that is the issue with me, and as mentioned previously the limited data allowances.

Cloudscape was fine for a few months after I joined, hopefully now that they have actually acknowledged the issue we will see a resolution soon.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Tue 20-Feb-18 16:00:43
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
yes, I've not seen any drops below the 17mb I saw once since the move. I do hope it gets resolved for you as well, as it is so frustrating experiencing such a poor connections on a service that should be better than the 'cheap' providers such as vodafone, talktalk, plusnet etc.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Tue 20-Feb-18 16:03:00
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
That is a proper breakdown of the issue through to resolution. I do honestly want Cloudscape to succeed in providing a good service, they are little firm with some decent offers.

As long as my service works well I'll be a happy bunny, it's not perfect by any means, but that is to be expected with any service I guess.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Tue 20-Feb-18 22:47:10
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
I might have spoken too soon, slow down a bit too much again tonight, not as bad as its been but between 15-18mb at some points this evening., useable yes, but it shouldn't be this bad should it??!

Date Down HTTPx1 Avg Down HTTPx6 Avg
20/02/2018 22:44 69700 69660
20/02/2018 22:19 41580 69640
20/02/2018 21:55 24040 69920
20/02/2018 21:55 19590 69360
20/02/2018 21:48 25840 69730
20/02/2018 21:28 21390 70060
20/02/2018 21:24 30120 69700
20/02/2018 21:18 17840 69560
20/02/2018 21:17 17680 68260
20/02/2018 21:16 14910 65120
20/02/2018 21:15 18530 69440
20/02/2018 20:23 26090 69640
20/02/2018 20:23 35350 69540
20/02/2018 20:19 30730 69640
20/02/2018 20:19 30020 69950
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 20-Feb-18 23:22:23
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I seem to remember at one time people were very worried about Entanet. So loads started running frequent speed tests. One of the most congestion-causing things they could have done wink smile.
If two or three people are following your example when things slow down a little, then that level of speedtesting simply destroys all the budgetted capacity calculations.

A self-defeating exercise. No ISP can be expected to budget for users running that volume of speedtests, at the same time as others may be doing genuine streaming.

I assume none of your internet-linked equipment is doing anything when you run these tests? Not even IS updates.

A partner/friend/child doing anything, particularly internet TV would easily cause this. Independent of the overall all-user load on the system.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Tue 20-Feb-18 23:35:35
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I seem to remember at one time people were very worried about Entanet. So loads started running frequent speed tests. One of the most congestion-causing things they could have done wink smile.
If two or three people are following your example when things slow down a little, then that level of speedtesting simply destroys all the budgetted capacity calculations.

A self-defeating exercise. No ISP can be expected to budget for users running that volume of speedtests, at the same time as others may be doing genuine streaming.

I assume none of your internet-linked equipment is doing anything when you run these tests? Not even IS updates.

A partner/friend/child doing anything, particularly internet TV would easily cause this. Independent of the overall all-user load on the system.


We have been told numerous times that the network is not even running at 50% capacity within the cloudscape network, what this actually means is open to interpretation. A few users doing speed tests shouldn't impact a non contended service.

I take your point if ensuring no other traffic is on the network whilst the tests are being done. My BQM graph was showing increased latency and packet loss during the day when no one was home and no devices were even switched on. I ensured nothing could do any updates/backups. The increases in latency matched exactly the working day (9-5) with some improvement in the early evening then later poor speeds again.

I am currently patiently waiting for their investigation to continue so they can isolate the issues and hopefully restore my service to how it was just after I migrated in.

The thread from AAISP is telling, how many other isp's would go to that extent to actually rectify the issue, never mind actually share the progress with anyone online, never mind the impacted users.

I can only hope that the cause is identified and that the relevant party actually do something about it.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Tue 20-Feb-18 23:41:30
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
yeah I get that, a yes I did get a bit OTT on the tests, but they aren't going to cause any significant impact on a network.

And no, nothing running, tests run with a network cable in the router as well, no one else in the property, no netflix, youtube etc, and no updates as these are set to download when I tell Windows to do it.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 21-Feb-18 00:12:47
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by fuzed:
yeah I get that, a yes I did get a bit OTT on the tests, but they aren't going to cause any significant impact on a network.
They will if several users are doing it. Particularly if on the same BT Wholesale node/MSIL. Even the high quality AA/Zen/IDNets of this world donít plan their capacity for that.

In my Entanet example, they literally had to put out a message on these forums and to their resellers to pass on that they certainly had a problem, (not in fact of their own making I need to point out), but the hundreds of end users doing frequent speed tests were making the problem worse, with the traffic exceeding the real stuff.

It doesnít take many concurrent/overlapping speedtests along with a few film streams to fill the rented capacity on a shared MSIL.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 21-Feb-18 09:14:49)

Standard User richi
(regular) Wed 21-Feb-18 08:43:28
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Philce:
We have been told numerous times that the network is not even running at 50% capacity within the cloudscape network, what this actually means is open to interpretation. A few users doing speed tests shouldn't impact a non contended service.
Let's review:

1. As I understand it, OP is now on a TTB backhaul
2. ISP says its own network has plenty of headroom, which we must assume includes the practical, sustained bandwidth of its routers (not just the raw links)
3. Migrating backhaul shows a distinct change in behaviour, but it still exhibits congestion at times

It sounds to me that OP has been provisioned with a low TTB traffic priority -- perhaps the same low priority that TTR gives its users. If that's the case, OP and ISP should discuss whether the service has been correctly provisioned, given the class of service OP has purchased and OP's reasonable expectations.

If they decide it's been correctly provisioned, and if ISP really wants to get to the bottom of this, it could temporarily increase the TTR priority for this connection -- to the sort of level that Pulse8 and A&A use. This would allow OP to gather useful speedtest data for comparison.

3 km line on THTG: 18/1.2 Mb/s with Plusnet Business
Previously: BT ISDN, Nildram, Plusnet, 186k, EFH, Be*, Plusnet (again), Pulse8, Sky
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Wed 21-Feb-18 09:07:31
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
What are your actual issues with everyday use of your connection. You should be able to view a couple of concurrent HD streams during the worst time and pushing 2 x 4K at the best.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk

Edited by broadband66 (Wed 21-Feb-18 09:09:10)

Standard User fuzed
(learned) Wed 21-Feb-18 09:33:58
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: richi] [link to this post]
 
It'll be something I'll discuss with them if the connection gets any worse than it is.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Wed 21-Feb-18 09:37:50
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
The issues were before the move that the connection was so poor that streaming netflix, youtube etc was slow, none existent or very poor quality, less than SD quality at times.

due to all the issues I've had with the service I'm keeping an eye on the connection to see how and what the issues are, at the end of the day I'm paying these guys more than I would for a cheap service, which is what I was expecting, not a service that is below par.

Some may think 15mb down at peak is ok, it might be for a short period, maybe a few seconds, but not all the way through the peak times. I'm keeping an eye on the service and will calm down with the speed tests, but I just want to make sure I don't have the same issues I've had since I moved to Cloudscape in November.
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Wed 21-Feb-18 11:25:09
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: richi] [link to this post]
 
Hi Richi,

Not sure where you are getting this from. None of our users are on TTB for FTTC. The OP and the others in this discussion have been moved from Vodafone to BTW backhaul.

So please do not make wild speculations regards provisioning, traffic priority etc.

We are working with these users and the responsible carriers to get this resolved.

We are already gathering useful data and this has been passed back to the carriers involved.

The issue with Philce is unique, and being addressed separately.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
ISP Representative cloudscape
(isp) Wed 21-Feb-18 11:32:06
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
Hi Ben,

As you acknowledge you change over on 27/2/18

We know there is an issue with your Voda cct.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User richi
(regular) Wed 21-Feb-18 12:13:46
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: cloudscape] [link to this post]
 
Firstly, I misread a post upthread that seemed to imply TTB, rather than BTW. Apologies for the confusion (but my advice to OP still applies).

Secondly, the ISP concerned has confirmed my opinion that I would not choose to use it, given the attitude of its formal presence on this forum. To misquote Auric Goldfinger: Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is policy.

3 km line on THTG: 18/1.2 Mb/s with Plusnet Business
Previously: BT ISDN, Nildram, Plusnet, 186k, EFH, Be*, Plusnet (again), Pulse8, Sky
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 21-Feb-18 13:08:53
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Can you define what you actually mean by several?

e.g. would 3 people with IDNet be able to DoS capacity for other users?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 21-Feb-18 13:45:09
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
It is impossible to define for any given ISP. The only facts we have are the problems Entanet encountered after the BT Wholesale mind change immediately before the implementation of Entanet's full 20-node network, and the intractable congestion problems some Plusnet users experienced due to Plusnet being on shared MSILs rather than dedicated ones.

Large providers with hundreds of thousand end users would have a large "several", as we saw from Entanet's appeals to lower the volume of speed tests. That being in the days of mere ADSL2+ capacity needs and provision.

Small providers "several" would depend on the number of users they have and the routing of customers from different parts of the country to whatever node of whichever wholesaler they are allocated to, and the type of node, shared/dedicated, and the way small provider's throughput capacity is handled by the wholesaler.

In the case of Cloudscape and it's backhaul suppliers, we have no idea what capacity on which MSILs they have contracted for. As you will know, but some readers may not, shared MSILs mean that other ISPs' traffic can also influence Cloudscape's throughput.

I was merely making the point that it is possible that numbers of end users running a high frequency of speedtests with the throughput volumes those incur under FTTC could have an impact on an MSIL or even a GEA cable-link.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 21-Feb-18 13:55:56
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
A large several does not exist, it is simply two or more.

So better to say things like if 30% of a providers customers speed test all at the same time then problems can occur.

In scenarios where someone is hitting run test, just 1 second after the completion of another then I'd say that was unfair, but then you also have to also say anyone with a big Steam download or other high thread action is also unfair.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 21-Feb-18 19:46:28
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
That "30%" is a completely arbitrary figure that cannot be justified. Nor does queuing theory work the way you seem to imagine, particularly given the variety of pinch-points I cited, which are only a subset of those that can exist.

Every ISP's setup is different and a generalisation in percentage terms is nonsense. For instance three or four users with 80Mbps sync on the same wholesaler on an exchange where that wholesaler only has a 1Gbps GEA Cable link, speedtesting while some others are using multiple Netfix streams each, is a totally different case from the same combination on a 10Gbps link.

As I also pointed out, if even Plusnet could run out of capacity on some shared MSILs, how much more so could Cloudscape?

I suggest continuing the discussion is pointless. Whatever you or I say doesn't alter the fact OTT speedtesting helps no-one, and certainly adds to contention somewhere. The point where it converts to congestion is far too complex for here. I don't understand why you raised it.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User partial
(experienced) Wed 21-Feb-18 20:46:16
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
Cloudscape's webby claims

"All our fibre products utilise our state of the art network which provides 1:1 contention with no speed throttling or packet shaping so you get 100% of the speed 100% of the time. "

So they should be able to handle customers using a speed tester. As should any provider out there without any problems. crazy

So if you wish to speed test your connection I say test away. However I suspect getting out of the contract and moving along to another provider (preferably not another reseller) would be a better use of time.
Standard User fuzed
(learned) Wed 21-Feb-18 21:12:27
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
yeah that may be great for the connection between me and the provider, but anything after that isn't true... the sad thing is this is what I joined them for, to have a service that was not contended to the levels other providers are/were contended.

Maybe it's time for them to reword that bit on their webpage!!!!
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 21-Feb-18 21:48:42
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
They don't specify the boundaries of their network anyway. Their interconnects may be fine, which is the far side from you, and their internal routing may have (at the moment) capacity for all customers fully using their sync, but as per my replies to MrSaffron there is a lot that can go wrong between your router and your/anyone's traffic reaching their first in-house router.

The furthest in your direction they can reach on BT Wholesale is probably these MSILs I have mentioned, where they may simply have a slot on one or two but the MSIL(s) also handling traffic from other ISPs and simply not cope.

See this explanation.

How Vodafone traffic is handled once it leaves your exchange I have no idea, sorry.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 21-Feb-18 21:49:48)

Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Tue 27-Feb-18 15:19:21
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
How are you getting on with this now?

My migration took place today, here is the first result,

My Broadband Speed Test

Not setting that single thread speed on fire (still looks like an issue to me, @MrSaffron, you opinion?), but multi thread speed is ok at the moment, the acid test comes at 8-11 though I suppose, so we'll see!
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Tue 27-Feb-18 15:24:05
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
Mine went through last week, seeing similar, they are still investigating with their carrier.
Looks like there is something else wrong somewhere.

Although last night we were back seeing this.

My Broadband Speed Test




In reply to a post by Ben88:
How are you getting on with this now?

My migration took place today, here is the first result,

My Broadband Speed Test

Not setting that single thread speed on fire (still looks like an issue to me, @MrSaffron, you opinion?), but multi thread speed is ok at the moment, the acid test comes at 8-11 though I suppose, so we'll see!

Edited by Philce (Tue 27-Feb-18 15:43:52)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 27-Feb-18 15:29:02
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
If the shape of tests is similar all the time, points towards something limiting to around 20 Mbps per thread.

A high start with a relatively smooth drop off is often a sign of some throttling, but could be many things of course

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Wed 28-Feb-18 07:50:09
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
Happy to report that the most serious congestion issues seem to be resolved for me now, here is my BQM from yesterday:

My Broadband Ping

Compared to the same day last week...

My Broadband Ping

Speedtests were generally in the 65+ region for multi threaded activities consistently last night, which is a massive improvement obviously.

I have done some tests for the single thread issue and passed them back to the team at CloudScape for further investigation, so hopefully they help them in resolving it.

I find the results vary quite wildly on DSLReports, I can run 4 single thread tests and see one at 15, one at 22, and then two 40-45. TBB tester consistently puts single thread in 20-25 region.
Standard User fuzed
(regular) Wed 28-Feb-18 21:01:26
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
I migrated a few weeks back, and to be fair It's been pretty good, I've not seen any speed drops below 14MB and that was ONLY the once, the rest of the time I've had pretty good speeds 70ish mb on single thread tests, so touching wood that it stays like this, but I'm happier! smile

Down HTTPx1 Avg Date
34970 - 28/02/2018 20:53
69420 - 27/02/2018 20:46
69500 - 27/02/2018 20:38
68840 - 27/02/2018 19:59
68360 - 27/02/2018 19:12
69450 - 27/02/2018 19:04
69010 - 26/02/2018 20:36
69590 - 26/02/2018 20:25
66590 - 26/02/2018 11:04
69480 - 24/02/2018 17:29
69470 - 24/02/2018 17:07
69590 - 23/02/2018 23:02
68560 - 23/02/2018 22:49
66890 - 23/02/2018 20:58
68920 - 23/02/2018 20:51
69830 - 22/02/2018 21:52
63110 - 22/02/2018 21:46
58420 - 22/02/2018 20:32
58630 - 22/02/2018 20:05
64540 - 21/02/2018 22:09
58100 - 21/02/2018 22:02
58220 - 21/02/2018 21:57
68300 - 21/02/2018 20:05
69680 - 20/02/2018 23:41
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Wed 28-Feb-18 21:56:24
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
Lucky you, this is what I am seeing now. (similar results on DSL reports)

My Broadband Speed Test

Monday night even worse.

My Broadband Speed Test

Something is being changed in the exchange tomorrow, not sure what.




In reply to a post by fuzed:
I migrated a few weeks back, and to be fair It's been pretty good, I've not seen any speed drops below 14MB and that was ONLY the once, the rest of the time I've had pretty good speeds 70ish mb on single thread tests, so touching wood that it stays like this, but I'm happier! smile

Down HTTPx1 Avg Date
34970 - 28/02/2018 20:53
69420 - 27/02/2018 20:46
69500 - 27/02/2018 20:38
68840 - 27/02/2018 19:59
68360 - 27/02/2018 19:12
69450 - 27/02/2018 19:04
69010 - 26/02/2018 20:36
69590 - 26/02/2018 20:25
66590 - 26/02/2018 11:04
69480 - 24/02/2018 17:29
69470 - 24/02/2018 17:07
69590 - 23/02/2018 23:02
68560 - 23/02/2018 22:49
66890 - 23/02/2018 20:58
68920 - 23/02/2018 20:51
69830 - 22/02/2018 21:52
63110 - 22/02/2018 21:46
58420 - 22/02/2018 20:32
58630 - 22/02/2018 20:05
64540 - 21/02/2018 22:09
58100 - 21/02/2018 22:02
58220 - 21/02/2018 21:57
68300 - 21/02/2018 20:05
69680 - 20/02/2018 23:41
Standard User fuzed
(regular) Thu 01-Mar-18 12:15:22
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
hope it gets sorted bud.
Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Mon 05-Mar-18 14:06:06
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Hey Philce, did the change made have any effect?

Things seem to have gone a little quiet for me re single thread speeds....
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Mon 05-Mar-18 16:03:02
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ben88:
Hey Philce, did the change made have any effect?

Things seem to have gone a little quiet for me re single thread speeds....


They are still "investigating" along with Zen..... I'm still seeing slow single thread downloads. They did something "at the exchange" on Thursday, didn't seem to make any difference, cant find out what exactly they did.

To be honest I have had enough, if I don't get a satisfactory response I will be placing an order to migrate with another ISP.

I think I have been patient enough, and despite many promises of some kind of compensation for the issues I still have had nothing, despite chasing them several times.

I suppose this is the downside of a smaller ISP that obviously has less expertise and resources for faults like this.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Fri 09-Mar-18 18:45:43
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
Final update I think on this one.

After several more tests and work going on in the "exchange" Zen (who the backhaul is now routed via) are adamant that there is no issue with their interconnect and that the issue is with the line, to the point of requesting a SFI visit from BTO.
My line is in sync at max rate with minimal CRC errors, the line only ever drops when either they reset something or I reboot the modem. I think they have run out of ideas and are doing this to try to get me to leave them alone due to the threat of SFI charge.

I have now placed an order to migrate away and this should complete in 10 days.

Its a real shame because I liked to support the smaller ISP and it seems that this issue is just too much for them to get fixed.

Latest speedtest from this evening. Apparently this is not "congestion"!

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by Philce (Fri 09-Mar-18 18:46:30)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 09-Mar-18 19:18:42
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Some Zen customers have the issue you have and its something Zen seem able to fix.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Fri 09-Mar-18 19:35:43
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thatís what I thought, but they are insisting that their network is not the problem.

All Iím hearing is that everyoneís network is not congested and itís someone elses fault.

This has been going on for over 3 months now. Iíve had enough.



In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Some Zen customers have the issue you have and its something Zen seem able to fix.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 09-Mar-18 19:49:04
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Which ISP are you migrating to?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 76102/14089Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Fri 09-Mar-18 20:10:45
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Which ISP are you migrating to?

Same as you..
You get what you pay for!
Standard User jdigz7
(regular) Sat 10-Mar-18 12:41:17
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Would suggest you ask to be put on AAISP new Trial TTB network as have heard nothing but great things from the people on it for latency especially.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Sat 10-Mar-18 20:07:40
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: jdigz7] [link to this post]
 
Ill let the migration go through first!

I hadn't heard about this yet though?

In reply to a post by jdigz7:
Would suggest you ask to be put on AAISP new Trial TTB network as have heard nothing but great things from the people on it for latency especially.
Standard User jdigz7
(regular) Sat 10-Mar-18 22:30:48
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
you can request this even before the migration happens
Standard User fuzed
(regular) Sun 11-Mar-18 00:15:01
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: jdigz7] [link to this post]
 
who and how do you request this, if might be an idea to provide a bit more info for those that are having similar issues.

Philice, sad that they couldn't sort out your issues, I have to report that my connection has been very good since I've been moved to BTW. Not had any significant speed drops at all!
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Tue 13-Mar-18 20:12:42
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
My latest BQM graph, ,swapping me to BTW/ZEN clearly hasn't worked.

Zen have diagnosed a "line issue" now, and requesting a SFI visit (with the threat of charges) this for a fault that has been present since November last year!

I'm due to migrate next week.

My Broadband Ping


In reply to a post by fuzed:
who and how do you request this, if might be an idea to provide a bit more info for those that are having similar issues.

Philice, sad that they couldn't sort out your issues, I have to report that my connection has been very good since I've been moved to BTW. Not had any significant speed drops at all!
Standard User jdigz7
(regular) Tue 13-Mar-18 20:52:44
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: fuzed] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by fuzed:
who and how do you request this, if might be an idea to provide a bit more info for those that are having similar issues.

Philice, sad that they couldn't sort out your issues, I have to report that my connection has been very good since I've been moved to BTW. Not had any significant speed drops at all!


send an email to trial@aa.net.uk they will give you the instructions i think you have to be on a 1tb package though or one that is served by the TTB backhaul.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Wed 14-Mar-18 19:49:10
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: jdigz7] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jdigz7:
In reply to a post by fuzed:
who and how do you request this, if might be an idea to provide a bit more info for those that are having similar issues.

Philice, sad that they couldn't sort out your issues, I have to report that my connection has been very good since I've been moved to BTW. Not had any significant speed drops at all!


send an email to trial@aa.net.uk they will give you the instructions i think you have to be on a 1tb package though or one that is served by the TTB backhaul.


Some info.

https://aastatus.net/2454
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 19-Mar-18 16:11:57
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
so you was moved from vodafone (known congestion issues) to zen (also known congestion issues), why didnt they move you to BTw?

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Mon 19-Mar-18 19:29:26
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
so you was moved from vodafone (known congestion issues) to zen (also known congestion issues), why didnt they move you to BTw?


Exactly, I was told I was moved to a BT connection, this was actually Zen.

Hence I migrate on Friday.
Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Mon 19-Mar-18 20:46:54
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Please do update us on the migrated connection afterwards won't you!
Standard User charlestown
(learned) Tue 20-Mar-18 11:11:17
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
I'm surprised to hear that Zen have known congestion issues, since I was with them myself several years back on an ADSL connection and they weren't cheap, but considered as one of the best. I was actually with CloudScape until a few weeks ago, but moved away when the 12 months was over.
Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Tue 20-Mar-18 19:40:05
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Woah...looks like something has changed for me. No comms from Cloudscape though.

My Broadband Speed Test

Are you seeing an improvement also?

That one just now is way better than saturday:

My Broadband Speed Test

Check the difference in the graphs, I'll try another one in an hour!
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Tue 20-Mar-18 20:14:40
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
Nope!

If anything its been getting worse!

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Wed 21-Mar-18 14:49:07
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 21-Mar-18 20:26:39
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: charlestown] [link to this post]
 
well not zen in general, just seems to be an issue on their unbundled exchange backhaul links, not necessarily all their exchanges but at least some of them.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Thu 22-Mar-18 08:54:14
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Mine was just a lucky anomaly it seems:

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Fri 23-Mar-18 08:55:57
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
My Broadband Speed Test

What a difference.

Apparently according to Zen/Cloudscape my line is faulty!!!
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 23-Mar-18 09:25:18
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Heh! smile

Which product/allowance combo are you on?

Need two or three more speedtests later at comparable times to your earlier poor ones.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 76102/14089Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Fri 23-Mar-18 10:37:23
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I'm on the 80/20 1TB package.

Ill test more later.

Chalk and cheese though!
Standard User Ben88
(newbie) Fri 23-Mar-18 11:58:24
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Certainly a marked improvement isn't it, what's with that droop at the end though?

I note higher ping time too.

Would like to see some in peak time also, cheers for coming back!
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Fri 23-Mar-18 15:40:17
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
Not sure, Looks better now.

My whole experience is improved, snappier browsing and no stalls at all during video.

Ill test again later at peak time. I dont expect any change.

My Broadband Speed Test
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 23-Mar-18 18:26:35
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Presume this is after you've migrated yourself to AAISP then.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Fri 23-Mar-18 20:39:56
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Ben88] [link to this post]
 
Still as expected.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 23-Mar-18 22:56:32
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
It seems conclusive. What Cloudscape have been saying is "incorrect". For whatever reason.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 71456/14100Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Sat 24-Mar-18 09:42:01
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The fact that the speedtest image says "ISP AAISP" might be a clue...

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Sat 24-Mar-18 14:06:23
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jelv:
The fact that the speedtest image says "ISP AAISP" might be a clue...


I did think the same, but didnt want to be as blunt!

Test from just now
.

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by Philce (Sat 24-Mar-18 14:55:26)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 24-Mar-18 14:54:30
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
Was actually just wanting someone to be blunt, i.e. to confirm that some oddity was not happening with ISP detection e.g. Cloudscape being identified as AAISP via IPv6 for example.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Philce
(experienced) Sat 24-Mar-18 14:56:45
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Was actually just wanting someone to be blunt, i.e. to confirm that some oddity was not happening with ISP detection e.g. Cloudscape being identified as AAISP via IPv6 for example.


Ha ha, sorry, yes definetly AAISP.

Seen too many flame wars on here so I didn't want to "bite"!

IPv6 working well too.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Sun 25-Mar-18 10:00:00
Print Post

Re: Congestion - Cloudscape


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
I think we'd have seen a post from you in TTTS if it was identifying the ISP incorrectly!

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
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