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Standard User derby13
(learned) Tue 03-Apr-18 18:35:54
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Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


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Hi all. Virgin have expanded into my area recently, and I'm just curious about something.

The VM network/cabinet setup that I am used to involves a small number of larger fibre node cabinets with a mains electricity supply feeding a chain of smaller non mains powered cabinets by coaxial cable.

However in the new network area, instead of the small number of larger cabinets and large number of smaller cabinets, I'm only seeing one type of cabinet. They are slightly taller but much thinner. Plus they are everywhere, there's one in every street (and two in some). What I've also seen is workmen blowing fibre to all of these cabinets, rather than just fibre feeding a small number of cabinets in an older setup. But I've not seen any mains electricity connections going in alongside the fibre.

I'm just curious as to how this affects a connection. Would a shorter run of cable and longer run of fibre allow for faster speeds in the future, compared to the older setups that have hundreds of meters of cable between the end user and the fibre node?

Thanks in advance
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 03-Apr-18 19:10:43
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: derby13] [link to this post]
 
You may be in an area that is getting fibre all the way to the premises

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 03-Apr-18 21:30:21
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: derby13] [link to this post]
 
Only need mains electricity to a single hub cabinet that serves 3,000 properties if I remember rightly. The cabinets are all passive, nothing in them that needs power, they split signals within fibre and send them to homes.

Don't need any more power than that as the all-fibre network only needs powered devices at each end, VM's and the home. No need for amplifiers so no need to have every cabinet powered.

The fibre node becomes a small. mains powered device in each home in the new set up. It's on the customer's wall.

The future capacity of this network is the same as for every other Passive Optical Network - it's certainly tens of gigabits.


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Standard User derby13
(learned) Fri 06-Apr-18 13:44:26
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Hi. Thanks for the replies. Yes it seems like it is indeed an FTTP setup. VM customer service previously told me that it wasn't FTTP, but it looks like they were wrong.
Standard User BuckleZ
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 07-Apr-18 15:55:25
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: derby13] [link to this post]
 
Good way to check, is if you use their checker online and it shows a no phoneline available it's FTTP

Standard User BuckleZ
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 07-Apr-18 15:56:21
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: BuckleZ] [link to this post]
 
and their cabinets are small and grey here, compared to the usual larger green/black ones that were done back by Cabeltel (NTL)

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/cache...

Edited by BuckleZ (Sat 07-Apr-18 15:59:16)

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sat 07-Apr-18 20:26:58
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: BuckleZ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BuckleZ:
Good way to check, is if you use their checker online and it shows a no phoneline available it's FTTP


Caution using that as a metric. Easy for the cable network to be ready before the telco has been done. No phone line was available here for months while CATV services were.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sat 07-Apr-18 20:29:36
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: BuckleZ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BuckleZ:
and their cabinets are small and grey here, compared to the usual larger green/black ones that were done back by Cabeltel (NTL)

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/cache...


Also not reliable. The HFC networks are being built with grey cabinets, some of which are of similar size to the one pictured.

The guy saw it being built, lots of microducts, has triangular TOBY boxes on pavement rather than square ones, it's fibre to the prem.
Standard User paulby
(committed) Sun 08-Apr-18 09:24:58
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup *DELETED*


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by paulby
Standard User paulby
(committed) Sun 08-Apr-18 09:27:23
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
In reply to a post by BuckleZ:
Good way to check, is if you use their checker online and it shows a no phoneline available it's FTTP


Caution using that as a metric. Easy for the cable network to be ready before the telco has been done. No phone line was available here for months while CATV services were.


Agree, not the best metric to use. I'm in an FTTP Project Lightning area and have a "phone line" - it's provided via the telephone port on the back of the Hub 3. Checker for my postcode shows phone available!!!
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Sun 08-Apr-18 22:49:46
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: derby13] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by derby13:
Hi. Thanks for the replies. Yes it seems like it is indeed an FTTP setup. VM customer service previously told me that it wasn't FTTP, but it looks like they were wrong.


Technically it a not FTTP... although the fibre hits the premises it is converted to Coaxial before being connected to modem.

So not comparable to BT FTTP, but certainly a step closer.

Unfortunately the terms are a bit too loose, and can be mis-interpreted.

Buffering... with 350mbps... surely not! #VirginMediaSucks
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 08-Apr-18 23:29:23
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
In reply to a post by derby13:
Hi. Thanks for the replies. Yes it seems like it is indeed an FTTP setup. VM customer service previously told me that it wasn't FTTP, but it looks like they were wrong.


Technically it a not FTTP... although the fibre hits the premises it is converted to Coaxial before being connected to modem.

So not comparable to BT FTTP, but certainly a step closer.

Unfortunately the terms are a bit too loose, and can be mis-interpreted.


It's FTTP. It arrives at the premises on fibre optic cable. What happens after that is irrelevant.

The fibre actually goes into a unit, an R-ONU, that both outputs an RF signal over coax and also has an output for an optical PON network. For now the RFoG port only is being used but doesn't change that it's FTTP.

I'm not aware of anyone who refers to RFoG as anything other than FTTP. Or, at least, I wasn't until now! smile
Standard User Check_T
(newbie) Sun 08-Apr-18 23:38:22
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup *DELETED*


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by Check_T
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Sun 08-Apr-18 23:39:39
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Virgin won't be likely to say it's FTTP as it could be considered mis-selling.

As I said previously though, I personally think BT mis-represents it's FTTP... As the fibre terminates in the CPE not just at the P (premises)

As far as I'm aware all Virgin has done is send it's DOCSIS RF signals over fibre, I am however intrigued yo see what differences this has over the hybrid network currently in wide use.

Specially in the bandwidth sharing area and latency/jitter ..

Buffering... with 350mbps... surely not! #VirginMediaSucks
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 09-Apr-18 05:10:49
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
As far as I'm aware all Virgin has done is send it's DOCSIS RF signals over fibre, I am however intrigued yo see what differences this has over the hybrid network currently in wide use.


Well that's what RFoG means of course. The reason will be so Virgin can use the same SuperHub and TV6/Tivo boxes and not have to offer different products in different parts of the country. That would be going backwards to when we had 10+ cable companies in the analogue days (pre Telewest/NTL mergers).

I suspect it may mean limitations on products in RFoG areas, with the benefits that the PON is "passive" no powered equipment in the cabinets - making it cheaper to maintain/install.

plusnet unlimited fibre 80/20 - 2 Jun 14 - Sync at 8/Apr/18: 62,153/9,919 - G.INP & 3.0 dB SNRm
19 years of broadband, from 1999's ntl:cable modem trial - Now using Asus RT-AC88U with BT HG612 - BQM

Edited by jchamier (Mon 09-Apr-18 05:11:55)

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Apr-18 11:55:13
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Re: Modern Network / Cabinet Setup


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
Virgin won't be likely to say it's FTTP as it could be considered mis-selling.

As I said previously though, I personally think BT mis-represents it's FTTP... As the fibre terminates in the CPE not just at the P (premises)


Virgin don't call it FTTP because there's no point. They are selling the same services on both so why bother drawing attention to that you've millions of customers you're selling 'fibre optic' broadband to on a hybrid network?

You're entitled to personally think whatever you wish.

If you're defining CPE as the customer's equipment exclusively then you're claiming B4RN, Gigaclear, many leased lines, obviously Openreach, Verizon FiOS, AT&T, Google Fibre, the municipal and private networks in Sweden and Switzerland, etc, etc, etc, aren't FTTP.

You're also wrong. CPE in the context of WAN circuits refers to whatever terminates those circuits, and can include whatever terminates the services riding on those networks also. It's equipment that's at the customer's premises, not just the customer's own equipment at the premises.

For B4RN, Gigaclear, etc, that'd be the media converter at the premises, for BT FTTP that'd be the ONT, for VM's RFoG solution the R-ONT. VM provide in-home installation support as they control everything customers connect to the network however the demarcation between network and home installation in the RF network is the isolator on the outside of the home and the R-ONT in the case of RFoG.

Openreach support the optical network and their responsibility ends at the ONT, from there on it's the customer's problem. Ditto Verizon, AT&T and others. B4RN and other point to point solutions' networks end at the media converter.

I'm not aware of any definition of FTTP that states that it requires a fibre to be presented to the end user's equipment. Again you're entitled to your opinion, it's just not one shared by the world's standards bodies, the advertising authorities, the regulators or network operators.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
As far as I'm aware all Virgin has done is send it's DOCSIS RF signals over fibre, I am however intrigued yo see what differences this has over the hybrid network currently in wide use.

Specially in the bandwidth sharing area and latency/jitter ..


In terms of both sharing of bandwidth and latency/jitter absolutely none. It improves signal quality, allows use of higher order modulations, allows use of more spectrum in both directions without needing to modify anything as the network is all passive from the virtual hub.

It allows for much easier node splits as each node is now the size of an optical split but apart from that it's DOCSIS.

The FTTP network is FTTP because it's cheaper to build than normal HFC, it's future proof in that 10Gb+ EPON / XGPON signals can be placed on the same fibre and has better signal characteristics than an HFC network as there are no RF amplifiers involved.

This isn't some unique thing VM are doing. Cable companies all over the world are using RFoG for new builds, and aren't advertising it as fibre to the premises even though they're delivering a fibre to the premises.
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