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Standard User AstroflashTB
(newbie) Sun 08-Apr-18 09:45:42
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Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped speed? 350Mbps Virgin Media


[link to this post]
 
Hi,

We recently got VM's 350Mbps package setup but the thinkbroadband Speedtest is suggesting that our speeds are far from adverstised. https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15231769362...

However, when I perform the tests over at speedtest.net, fast.com, or uswitch.com the speeds sit firmly between 320-400Mbps. And when downloading a test file (e.g game) download speeds fluctuate between 20-45MBps (350Mbps~)

Is this a throughput issue with the tester on this site?

Cheers

Edited by AstroflashTB (Sun 08-Apr-18 12:28:17)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 08-Apr-18 10:43:40
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: AstroflashTB] [link to this post]
 
If we were congesting things on our side we would let everyone know, so no we are not filling the 10 Gbps capacity we have on the tester.

speedtest.net - will source lowest latency files and as Virgin as an onnet tester it will be that
fast.com - will use files from Netflix CDN which is again onnet with a provider the size of Virgin
uswitch - no idea of algorithm

As has been proven in the past though, Virgin Media runs some parts of its network hot, they admitted to losing 1% of their network last year and a number of sites became very slow to access.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 08-Apr-18 12:08:42
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: AstroflashTB] [link to this post]
 
You're not alone! I'm on a 330 Mbps FTTPoD connection and will NEVER see more than ~ 250 Mbps on the TBB tester (wired). Despite speedtesters such as speedtest.net giving me 300 Mbps day & night:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/7209412367

Since speedtest.net is multithread only, you'd think the TBB tester would at least have similar HTTP x6 results? Nope, they're also way below 300 Mbps:

My Broadband Speed Test

However I'm not overly concerned because I can download at ~ 40 MB/s at all times and when my ISP (FluidOne) carried out Nut TCP tests they also found I was getting the full throughput (~ 310 Mbps) on my line.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Sun 08-Apr-18 12:15:27)


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Standard User gmangt4
(regular) Sun 08-Apr-18 12:22:25
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: AstroflashTB] [link to this post]
 
I see the same results with my 350mb VM package, every other speedtest shows between 350 to 388 mb/s except TBB one, as like other poster I'm not worried as can download games at full bandwidth appx 45MB/s, I have a rubbish memory but seem to recall VM's routing to TBB being mentioned before as the cause.
Standard User Derek_S
(newbie) Sun 08-Apr-18 12:30:09
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: AstroflashTB] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AstroflashTB:
Is this a throughput issue with the tester on this site?

Cheers


I stopped using the Thinkbroadband speedtester a while ago.. It's either completely inaccurate, or misleading to the point of being useless for higher speed connections.

Speedtest.net is acknowledeged as the leading speed tester and yet the Thinkbroadband staff regularly rubbish it. Here is my speedtest.net result from a few minutes ago:
https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/d/43c3c232-3428-...

and here is the Thinkbroadband one:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15231848317...

As usual since the so called new test, it only shows my speed as being around half what it really is. Up until the end of last year, the TB one was more or less accurate showing in excess of 300 Mbs after I upgraded to Vivid 350 last October.

To further confirm the Thinkbroadband tests's inaccuracy, I am also one of Virginmedia's quality control triallists and have an independently operated Samknows testing unit monitoring my connection 24 hours per day. I have access to those records and receive an update every month. They also also confirm I am getting the 350 Mbs service I should be. Here is a link to a snapshot of the latest report from a few days ago.
https://imgur.com/a/EbWq3

It's ridiculous that the TB staff keep claiming only their test is accurate and every one elses is wrong.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 08-Apr-18 12:57:40
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Derek_S] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Derek_S:
It's ridiculous that the TB staff keep claiming only their test is accurate and every one elses is wrong.


+1

The fact that even TBB multithreaded speedtests on our lines don't match speedtest.net suggests there are issues with the TBB tester. But like I said I'm not too bothered as real life performance suggests otherwise.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 08-Apr-18 13:06:44
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Derek_S] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Derek_S:
To further confirm the Thinkbroadband tests's inaccuracy, I am also one of Virginmedia's quality control triallists and have an independently operated Samknows testing unit monitoring my connection 24 hours per day. I have access to those records and receive an update every month. They also also confirm I am getting the 350 Mbs service I should be. Here is a link to a snapshot of the latest report from a few days ago.


If Virgin Media know you have a Samknows box then the project is flawed. Most people whom have Samknows boxes DON'T tell their ISP, so that the ISP cannot make any "adjustments" to their connection. That is assuming you are part of the Samknows/Ofcom reporting project. It may be there is a separate Virgin Media/Samknows project.

plusnet unlimited fibre 80/20 - 2 Jun 14 - Sync at 21/Oct/17: 63,430/9,688 - G.INP & 2.6 dB SNRm
19 years broadband since 1999's ntl:cable modem trial - Now using Asus RT-AC88U with BT HG612 - BQM
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 08-Apr-18 13:41:44
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Derek_S] [link to this post]
 
Do I rubbish other testers? Or do I talk about why there may be differences...

The key one is that as was shown last year the link through and out of the Virgin Media network to us is often congested.

If a major broadband provider wants to run links out of their network hot then that is their choice.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 08-Apr-18 13:43:14
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Or there are issues on one of the links between you and the test server

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Sun 08-Apr-18 13:48:48
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Derek_S] [link to this post]
 
Well 80% of the time TBB Speedtest matches what Speedtest.net shows, well the x6 do anyhow.

My Broadband Speed Test My Broadband Speed Test

SpeedTest.net Results

As you can see for me they are very close to the speeds, the only thing that is way off is the latency, you can see the ping to the speedtest shows a latency in the 20's however my pings are 4ms shown below:

ping -4 speedtest7.thinkbroadband.com

Pinging speedtest7.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.106.133] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 80.249.106.133: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=53
Reply from 80.249.106.133: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=53
Reply from 80.249.106.133: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=53
Reply from 80.249.106.133: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=53

Ping statistics for 80.249.106.133:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 4ms, Maximum = 4ms, Average = 4ms

My BQM also shows about 4ms too.

But yeah, there are times that the TBB Speedtest shows completly different readings.
But I only check my speeds when I notice a difference in responsivness when doing every day stuff and TBB Tests shows this where as the other tester showed full speed.

I am not saying TBB Speedtest are correct or not correct, but just because multiple of other speedtests show around the same results apart from TBB's one doesn't mean the others are correct and TBB is wrong, TBB's result "might" be wrong, but you shouldn't assume that it is.

Also the different browsers show different results for all the tests, I am not a fan of Chrome, sadly this browser seems the best for me when doing the tests.

I also have a Whitebox connected to my connection and while it does show fairly close to the speed I am paying for it does show drops down from 310Mbps to 200Mbps in the evening, where as Speedtest.net didn't show this however TBB tests did.

Like I already said I am not siding with anyone, when I have connection issues I do loads of tests by different tester and then compare the results and go with the average results.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 312.27 Mbps (down), 30.5 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)

Edited by PaulKirby (Sun 08-Apr-18 13:50:29)

Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Sun 08-Apr-18 15:19:22
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Derek_S] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Derek_S:
In reply to a post by AstroflashTB:
Is this a throughput issue with the tester on this site?

Here is my speedtest.net result from a few minutes ago:
https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/d/43c3c232-3428-...

and here is the Thinkbroadband one:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15231848317...


You do realise that both those test cannot be compare as the speedtest.net test is running between your local Virgin Media network and you without passing any of the main back haul links (which are consistently known to run hot/busy)

Virgin Media's links with ThinkBroadband are rather bizarre for me at least and also confirmed as prime reason for the throughput issues.

So it is not fair to profess that the tester on think broadband's site is at fault here.

Dum Di Dum Di Dum Di Dum
Standard User AstroflashTB
(newbie) Sun 08-Apr-18 19:48:14
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
What do you mean by onnet?
Standard User Realalemadrid
(member) Sun 08-Apr-18 20:27:18
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: AstroflashTB] [link to this post]
 
It means the speed test is on Virgin's network, not on the actual internet, so not a valid test.
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Mon 09-Apr-18 09:33:27
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:
It means the speed test is on Virgin's network, not on the actual internet, so not a valid test.
While it is true that this is why there is a difference the main point of most testers is to check the speed of your individual connection and therefore it is a valid test.

You must remember that most speed testers came about because of the variability of DSL lines so checking the local connection speed is the main point.
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Mon 09-Apr-18 09:40:32
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Or there are issues on one of the links between you and the test server
Perhaps this should be mentioned on the speed tester: "This tester doesn't test your local connection but tests link speeds of your provider to our part of the internet (aka our ISP)."

Edited by Daemon66 (Mon 09-Apr-18 09:41:29)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 09-Apr-18 09:57:39
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
We are our ISP, so have visibility of the full network on our side

As for adding that comment, what you've suggested is incorrect anyway since it does also test the local (as in local loop too).

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 09-Apr-18 09:59:54
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
ASA and Ofcom would disagree with you then, since the testing for 8pm to 10pm has to be off-net so help show the end to end i.e. they are aware some providers can offer exceptional speeds for part of the journey but not all of it.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 09-Apr-18 10:44:41
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
We are our ISP, so have visibility of the full network on our side

As for adding that comment, what you've suggested is incorrect anyway since it does also test the local (as in local loop too).

Why doesn’t TBB offer Speedtests in different geographical locations, say one in London and one in Manchester? If it’s down to costs an isp may offer you a Speedtest server for free in exchange for free publicity/advertising on TBB. Just an idea smile

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 09-Apr-18 11:07:00
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Geographically spread services (which we have a few) don't count into the statistics.

Providers can approach for an appliance that runs on their network, or software runs central but payloads from server on their network.

So it is an idea already available

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Mon 09-Apr-18 13:43:23
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
We are our ISP, so have visibility of the full network on our side
Really? I thought you used NetConnex.
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
As for adding that comment, what you've suggested is incorrect anyway since it does also test the local (as in local loop too).
Maybe the wording is wrong, but you probably need some kind of warning/caveat because unlike other testers it is not clear where the cap is being hit.
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Mon 09-Apr-18 13:49:52
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
ASA and Ofcom would disagree with you then, since the testing for 8pm to 10pm has to be off-net so help show the end to end i.e. they are aware some providers can offer exceptional speeds for part of the journey but not all of it.
LOL, never seen anything like that with regards to the ASA and Ofcom's a joke. The ISPs can use their own servers ideally located but just not connected to their own network?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 09-Apr-18 14:17:28
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
NetConnex is who owns thinkbroadband

On the other testers show me where they explain all this too users?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Tue 10-Apr-18 09:56:55
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
NetConnex is who owns thinkbroadband
Doh, I should have read your about page rather than relying on what I remembered.
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
On the other testers show me where they explain all this too users?
One example, speedtest.net always shows what server it is using and where it is located. That's how we know it is an on-net test and hence only really tests the client connection.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 10-Apr-18 10:08:37
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
Once we are using multiple sites then we will make it obvious to people on the main tester.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 10-Apr-18 10:14:25
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: AstroflashTB] [link to this post]
 
it means the test is ok for testing your node performance, so how fast you can transfer between yourself and the VM core network, but not the wider internet performance.

Offnet is where the endpoint is outside of the VM network. So the traffic actually has to traverse transit/peering links.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 10-Apr-18 10:15:45
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
Check seb's link to netconnex wink

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Tue 10-Apr-18 12:20:44
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Derek_S] [link to this post]
 
Why bother with speed tests if your connection is so fast? If a big file downloads quickly then all is ok.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 10-Apr-18 14:01:10
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped speed? 350Mbps Virgin Me


[re: AstroflashTB] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AstroflashTB:
Is this a throughput issue with the tester on this site?

Cheers


No. It's a VM-specific thing. It also impacts downloading of test files from TBB in a similar manner.

I'll try and get a test on a hyperfast connection done.
Standard User AstroflashTB
(newbie) Tue 10-Apr-18 14:02:59
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Because we don't pay for half the service, we pay for the full service. If we get half the speed we should pay half the price..
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 11-Apr-18 14:18:04
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Well,

Based on the fact your tester says this..

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15234522788...

And assuming that's a:London server - I did another one there too.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/7218166008

I live close to the Newport Data Center that hosts the Newport server -it sometimes suffers

http://www.speedtest.net/result/7218170030

So I also use Clearstream as they are also local and I find them never congested.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/7218174812

Might I suggest you ask your provider to credit you until things are fixed? Having linking problems with some of the fastest ISP's in the UK right now - has got to be embarrassing, right?

No dig at you - you don't control it I know - but someone somewhere does.
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 11-Apr-18 14:18:45
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped speed? 350Mbps Virgin Me


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
In reply to a post by AstroflashTB:
Is this a throughput issue with the tester on this site?

Cheers


No. It's a VM-specific thing. It also impacts downloading of test files from TBB in a similar manner.

I'll try and get a test on a hyperfast connection done.


Are they involved with Fluidone also then? As it's them too it seems...?
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 11-Apr-18 14:20:51
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
NetConnex is who owns thinkbroadband


Finally, someone to write to. - cheers for the info smile
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 11-Apr-18 14:22:08
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
Why bother with speed tests if your connection is so fast? If a big file downloads quickly then all is ok.


I actually agree with you there. I only did some for this thread - usually I don't bother unless there is a massive degrade in service, which touch wood there hasn't been for a long time now.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Apr-18 17:13:15
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped speed? 350Mbps Virgin Me


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 23Prince:
Are they involved with Fluidone also then? As it's them too it seems...?


Not the greatest indicator as the speed test server is much better provisioned than the test download server, but...

AWS, a micro instance so not great bandwidth:

--2018-04-11 16:06:55-- http://ipv4.download.thinkbroadband.com/1GB.zip
Resolving ipv4.download.thinkbroadband.com (ipv4.download.thinkbroadband.com)... 80.249.99.148
Connecting to ipv4.download.thinkbroadband.com (ipv4.download.thinkbroadband.com )|80.249.99.148|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 1073741824 (1.0G) [application/zip]
Saving to: ‘/dev/null’

/dev/null 100%[=============<snip>========>] 1.00G 66.6MB/s in 17s

2018-04-11 16:07:12 (59.9 MB/s) - ‘/dev/null’ saved [1073741824/1073741824]

VM Business 350, wired, to a machine running Ubuntu:

--2018-04-11 17:08:59-- http://ipv4.download.thinkbroadband.com/1GB.zip
Resolving ipv4.download.thinkbroadband.com (ipv4.download.thinkbroadband.com)... 80.249.99.148
Connecting to ipv4.download.thinkbroadband.com (ipv4.download.thinkbroadband.com)|80.249.99.148|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 1073741824 (1.0G) [application/zip]
Saving to: ‘/dev/null’

/dev/null 100%[=============<snip>========>] 1.00G 7.03MB/s in 1m 45s

2018-04-11 17:10:44 (9.80 MB/s) - ‘/dev/null’ saved [1073741824/1073741824]

Edited by Ignitionnet (Wed 11-Apr-18 17:26:27)

Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Apr-18 18:06:13
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: AstroflashTB] [link to this post]
 
But YOU yourself stated that other speed tests show nearly full speed.

Just use the computer and stop testing unless you see any degradation in your daily use.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 11-Apr-18 18:37:20
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
Most people read https://www.thinkbroadband.com/about and can see the link there

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 11-Apr-18 18:40:40
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
I guess you don't understand where we've explained issue seems to be some routes out of Virgin Media may be congesting, so some sites are behaving well and others not so well.

So no idea who you think we would get credit from. It would be nice if Virgin Media was to credit sites that were on one of its hot routes.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 11-Apr-18 20:09:29
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Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Sorry I simply assumed you would pay for 10Gbps and had an SLA you could enforce.

My apologies

Although understanding yes, caring on the other hand.. - and as you have also stated many a tester out there capable of hitting headline speeds. Duly noted

And yes it would be nice.

Edited by 23Prince (Wed 11-Apr-18 20:12:22)

Standard User cje85
(newbie) Wed 11-Apr-18 22:04:54
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I'm on 200Mb, but for what it's worth here is a selection of speed tests all to servers outside of the VM network with traceroutes showing this.


Thinkbroadband
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15234803785...

Tracing route to speedtest7.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.106.133]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms router.asus.com [192.168.1.1]
2 10 ms 12 ms 9 ms 10.250.64.1
3 12 ms 12 ms 21 ms pres-core-2a-xe-711-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.104.74.245]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 24 ms 25 ms 37 ms eislou2-ic-2-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.84.62]
9 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms linx-gw2.thdo.ncuk.net [195.66.236.240]
10 23 ms 32 ms 27 ms po4-31.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.85]
11 24 ms 22 ms 22 ms speedtest7.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.106.133]

Trace complete.

--

SpeedTest.net - TNP Manchester
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7219422341

Tracing route to speedtest.tnp.net.uk [5.61.120.11]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms router.asus.com [192.168.1.1]
2 23 ms 14 ms 9 ms 10.250.64.1
3 31 ms 15 ms 16 ms pres-core-2a-xe-712-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.104.74.249]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 17 ms 16 ms 19 ms tcma-ic-2-ae9-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.174.178]
7 17 ms 18 ms 18 ms tnp-manc-rtr01.tnp.net.uk [195.66.244.39]
8 16 ms 23 ms 15 ms speedtest.tnp.net.uk [5.61.120.11]

Trace complete.

--

dslreports.com - London
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/32056844

Tracing route to t46.dslreports.com [88.80.191.58]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms router.asus.com [192.168.1.1]
2 11 ms 19 ms 10 ms 10.250.64.1
3 20 ms 11 ms 9 ms pres-core-2a-xe-712-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.104.74.249]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 16 ms 15 ms 15 ms manc-ic-1-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.242]
7 24 ms 23 ms 24 ms 86.85-254-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk [62.254.85.86]
8 23 ms 33 ms 32 ms ix-ae-7-0.tcore2.LDN-London.as6453.net [80.231.62.5]
9 25 ms 27 ms 28 ms 80.231.62.150
10 64 ms 34 ms 53 ms 109.74.207.3
11 23 ms 25 ms 23 ms li703-58.members.linode.com [88.80.191.58]

Trace complete.

--

testmy.net - London
https://testmy.net/db/PHX6Th4is

Tracing route to uk.testmy.net [109.123.121.170]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms 1 ms router.asus.com [192.168.1.1]
2 10 ms 8 ms 8 ms 10.250.64.1
3 15 ms 23 ms 16 ms pres-core-2b-xe-712-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.252.42.149]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 21 ms 28 ms 21 ms tcl5-ic-6-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.85.66]
8 27 ms 21 ms 23 ms linx-224.as13213.net [195.66.224.19]
9 25 ms 23 ms 20 ms 83.170.70.234
10 23 ms 27 ms 23 ms dc5.as13213.net [83.170.70.138]
11 22 ms 21 ms 21 ms uk.testmy.net [109.123.121.170]

--

ovh.net - France
http://pic.nperf.com/r/270747626-hCkLC6gg.png

Tracing route to fr-ovh-roubaix-01-10g.nperf.net [188.165.12.106]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms 1 ms router.asus.com [192.168.1.1]
2 26 ms 11 ms 9 ms 10.250.64.1
3 10 ms 10 ms 13 ms pres-core-2b-xe-711-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.252.42.145]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 22 ms 25 ms 22 ms tcl5-ic-6-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.85.66]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 31 ms 29 ms 32 ms be100-1042.rbx-g2-nc5.fr.eu [213.251.130.102]
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 25 ms 26 ms 30 ms proof.ovh.net [188.165.12.106]

Edited by cje85 (Wed 11-Apr-18 22:08:05)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 11-Apr-18 22:30:47
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 23Prince:
Sorry I simply assumed you would pay for 10Gbps and had an SLA you could enforce.

Let's assume TBB has 10Gbit/sec to LINX. So traffic to any other UK ISP will be via LINX.

If one of these ISPs happens to have a 200Gbit/sec connection to LINX but its running at 198Gbit/sec then all TBB speedtests from that ISP will be slower than expected. This is not something TBB can fix. Their SLA for their connection will be 10Gbps to LINX. There won't be a transit SLA from one ISP to another as such.

Separately I've just tried the 1GB download on my two VMs:

1) France hosting with OVH - 86seconds at a data rate of 12.0 MB/s / 96 megabit/sec
2) Italy hosting with ArubaCloud - 14seconds at a data rate of 75.2 MB/s / 601 megabit/sec

The first promises a 100megabit connection, and the second promises a gigabit connection. Obviously the TBB file download server can achieve 600 megabit to Italy.

plusnet unlimited fibre 80/20 - 2 Jun 14 - Sync at 8/Apr/18: 62,153/9,919 - G.INP & 3.0 dB SNRm
19 years of broadband, from 1999's ntl:cable modem trial - Now using Asus RT-AC88U with BT HG612 - BQM

Edited by jchamier (Wed 11-Apr-18 22:31:50)

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Apr-18 22:37:58
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 23Prince:
Sorry I simply assumed you would pay for 10Gbps and had an SLA you could enforce.


I'm not clear on this. Who should be paying whom for 10Gb and whom should be getting paid credits for that not being reached given that NCUK own network and servers here?
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Apr-18 22:43:49
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by 23Prince:
Sorry I simply assumed you would pay for 10Gbps and had an SLA you could enforce.

Let's assume TBB has 10Gbit/sec to LINX. So traffic to any other UK ISP will be via LINX.


You have completely ruined my fishing expedition with your erudite explanation but thank you I guess smile
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Apr-18 22:49:03
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
DSL Reports with 6 threads, same as the Think Broadband test, rather than the 24 you get by using the cable option:

A Think Broadband result just now - go by the burst rather than the average as the top % burst is the number reported a lot of the time.

My Broadband Speed Test
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 11-Apr-18 22:49:24
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: cje85] [link to this post]
 
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms router.asus.com [192.168.1.1]
2 10 ms 12 ms 9 ms 10.250.64.1
3 12 ms 12 ms 21 ms pres-core-2a-xe-711-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.104.74.245]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 24 ms 25 ms 37 ms eislou2-ic-2-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.84.62]
9 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms linx-gw2.thdo.ncuk.net [195.66.236.240]
10 23 ms 32 ms 27 ms po4-31.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.85]
11 24 ms 22 ms 22 ms speedtest7.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.106.133]

Copied from other posters post, but shows that the likely problem is in the Virgin Media network, notice how between hop 3 and 8 some 12 ms is lost, not the sort of latency increase you want across a core network. Its not just a busy router responding slowly to ICMP since later hops are still high too.

Some may recall Virgin Media issues with LINX last year and it was not until things really really broke did anything happen.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Apr-18 23:03:37
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
TBB with the 8 threads most speedtest servers offer as a minimum.

I think a far better question than trying to blame TBB would be to ask why I can get 480Mb/s on the lowest of the low Amazon AWS on a single thread but require 8 of them to get up to 350Mb/s using VM cable.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Apr-18 23:05:49
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Some may recall Virgin Media issues with LINX last year and it was not until things really really broke did anything happen.


Indeed. Not until things broke and I, armed with data from you guys to make the case, ended up speaking with a network engineer there directly and the route was then changed... to go around a congested peering link.

I'm not sure why VM are so bad all the time. My first thought would honestly be some kind of QoS or shaping.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 11-Apr-18 23:11:13
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
I think a far better question than trying to blame TBB would be to ask why I can get 480Mb/s on the lowest of the low Amazon AWS on a single thread but require 8 of them to get up to 350Mb/s using VM cable.


<straw man>
VM are pushing for market share and winning 'hearts and minds' by selling speed tiers. Not quality, or capability. This may be a limitation of DOCSIS technology, but more likely a limitation of budgets available.

Other ISPs, without their own network, are more concerned about selling connectivity that performs for the speed your line can do.
</straw man>

Lots of my colleagues would pick a 300 megabit home service with variable latency and lack of single threat throughput instead of a 50/60 megabit service that has constant latency and achieves fast downloads in one thread.

General public versus those whom know a tiny bit about networks.

plusnet unlimited fibre 80/20 - 2 Jun 14 - Sync at 8/Apr/18: 62,153/9,919 - G.INP & 3.0 dB SNRm
19 years of broadband, from 1999's ntl:cable modem trial - Now using Asus RT-AC88U with BT HG612 - BQM

Edited by jchamier (Wed 11-Apr-18 23:12:47)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Thu 12-Apr-18 09:20:47
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I still remember back in the NTL days when someone revealed (dont know if was yourself) NTL had 100mbit links to LINX whilst their competitors had gigabit links, and at the same time NTL was also selling much higher speed connections relative to those competitors, VM is still NTL under the hood, virgin media is only a name provided because branson gets a royalty fee for the brand. So if NTL still work with the same principles (minimal capacity expensive, maximum pushed speed to end users) then its no surprise we seeing links been run hot so often.

(note it may have been gigabit links vs 10gigabit links to competitors, cannot remember which way)

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6

Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 12-Apr-18 09:22:03)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 12-Apr-18 09:39:34
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
There is a dieselgate moment to be had

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cje85
(newbie) Thu 12-Apr-18 12:29:23
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
According to PeeringDB VM now have 2x 1TB links at LINX. Liberty Global have an additional 200Gb.

https://www.peeringdb.com/net/1412
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/346
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 12-Apr-18 13:32:27
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: cje85] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cje85:
According to PeeringDB VM now have 2x 1TB links at LINX. Liberty Global have an additional 200Gb.

https://www.peeringdb.com/net/1412
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/346


According to LINX VM have 6 x 100G split 4-2 to the LINX public LANs. Liberty have a single 100G into each.
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Thu 12-Apr-18 16:45:25
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
cje85 / Ignitionnet

I am sure you know ( or at least 1 of you does) that physically VM have 2 TB links but logically/optically are only using 6 100Gb of that capacity, split 4 & 2. So you are both right!

So is jchaimer who gives the reason as cost. Which is why they have not equipped the other capacity. They should be able to use 10 100Gb pipes/LANs on each 1TB physical.

As each TB is likely to be an optical system, only equipping some wavelengths saves a significant amount of cost Not just in optics but also in router ports and cooling.

It is highly likely that they will not be able to use all 10 100Gb per TB due to the cooling overhead on the rack. When the high density Optics first came out quite often only 1 wavelength was lit and the specs, if you equipped them all, described the heat output of a large bonfire not electronic equipment ( 20Kw per box and you could fit 3 boxes in a rack if you were careless enough!)
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 12-Apr-18 17:09:24
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
cje85 / Ignitionnet

I am sure you know ( or at least 1 of you does) that physically VM have 2 TB links but logically/optically are only using 6 100Gb of that capacity, split 4 & 2. So you are both right!

So is jchaimer who gives the reason as cost. Which is why they have not equipped the other capacity. They should be able to use 10 100Gb pipes/LANs on each 1TB physical.

As each TB is likely to be an optical system, only equipping some wavelengths saves a significant amount of cost Not just in optics but also in router ports and cooling.

It is highly likely that they will not be able to use all 10 100Gb per TB due to the cooling overhead on the rack. When the high density Optics first came out quite often only 1 wavelength was lit and the specs, if you equipped them all, described the heat output of a large bonfire not electronic equipment ( 20Kw per box and you could fit 3 boxes in a rack if you were careless enough!)


I'm probably misunderstanding this quite grievously.

Into the LINX public LAN VM physically have 6 x 100Gb router/switch ports connected to 6 x 100Gb Ethernet switch ports across 6 different switches on the two LINX LANs.

Logically and optically VM have 6 x 100Gb Ethernet router/switch ports connected to 6 x 100Gb Ethernet switch ports on 6 different switches across the two LINX LANs.

Connections to the LINX LAN are over 1/10/100Gb Ethernet only. Nothing to do with WDM at all, beyond the wavelengths necessary to carry 100Gb Ethernet.

PeeringDB just have this wrong. It happens.
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Fri 13-Apr-18 13:15:08
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I was just pointing out that due to partial truths both are correct, however the PerringDB info is misleading.

PeeringDB have most likely picked up on the 2 TB ( Optical systems) into the building which VM then split up before connecting at 100Gb to the switches and onward..

The 2 TB systems will ( should ) be diverse which is why they have 2.

It is quite normal for Operators to 'claim' the capacity as the optical capacity as this looks good, but only light less capacity as the switch / router ports cost.

I can remember some claiming 64 fibre pair connectivity but only using 1 pair. Made the connectivity seem really good.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 14-Apr-18 00:45:03
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: cje85] [link to this post]
 
yes, in case it wasnt obvious, I wasnt saying they have never upgraded since then. smile

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 17-Apr-18 13:37:05
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
I was just pointing out that due to partial truths both are correct, however the PerringDB info is misleading.

PeeringDB have most likely picked up on the 2 TB ( Optical systems) into the building which VM then split up before connecting at 100Gb to the switches and onward..


Apart from that they specifically claim it's the public peering capacity, they have absolutely no way of knowing how much capacity VM have into the routers VM have with LINX facing interfaces, and there are more than 2 VM routes into the LINX sites, sure.
Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Tue 17-Apr-18 13:54:00
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Lots of my colleagues would pick a 300 megabit home service with variable latency and lack of single threat throughput instead of a 50/60 megabit service that has constant latency and achieves fast downloads in one thread.

General public versus those whom know a tiny bit about networks.


But that's not the whole story.

I can choose between a 350mbit home service with a stable ~22ms latency and a single threaded throughput of ~80mbit, or an FTTC home service with yes, less latency but never more than 40mbit regardless of number of threads.

Given that the single threaded speed of the 350mbit connection is still double the entire capacity of the FTTC line, it's still a nobrainer to me.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 17-Apr-18 14:08:02
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
1  thinkbroadband-gw2.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net (80.249.99.113)  1.414 ms  1.605 ms  1.800 ms
 2  po4-31.bdr-rt3.thdo.ncuk.net (80.249.97.86)  0.526 ms  0.513 ms  0.496 ms
 3  te2-1-9.star10g.bdr-rt1.thn.ncuk.net (80.249.97.18)  0.368 ms  0.371 ms  0.383 ms
 4  linx-gw1.router.ntli.net (195.66.224.22)  1.369 ms  1.362 ms  1.343 ms
 5  * * *
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
 8  leed-core-2a-ae4-0.network.virginmedia.net (82.15.94.254)  8.084 ms  8.046 ms  8.030 ms


 1  thinkbroadband-gw2.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net (80.249.99.113)  0.659 ms  0.867 ms  1.081 ms
 2  po4-31.bdr-rt3.thdo.ncuk.net (80.249.97.86)  0.549 ms  0.538 ms  0.521 ms
 3  te2-1-9.star10g.bdr-rt1.thn.ncuk.net (80.249.97.18)  0.344 ms  0.356 ms  0.388 ms
 4  linx-gw1.router.ntli.net (195.66.224.22)  1.386 ms  1.393 ms  1.373 ms
 5  * * *
 6  lutn-core-2a-ae3-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.141)  2.644 ms  2.723 ms  2.709 ms


Two traceroute just done to somewhere in Leeds and another in Luton, so will be interesting to see if things change during peak time period

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 17-Apr-18 15:07:10
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Two traceroute just done to somewhere in Leeds and another in Luton, so will be interesting to see if things change during peak time period


Hi Andrew,

VM actually have 195.66.224.22, 195.66.224.23, 195.66.225.103, 195.66.236.23, 195.66.237.103 and 195.66.244.33 onto the peering LANs - each of their 6 100GE links is a routed interface.

The routes shouldn't change at peak times - would be noticed on BQM either way.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Apr-18 23:34:40
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
If your requirement is for download speed (eg you use Steam!) then there is no question. If you use obscure websites and corporate (rather than home user) internet services then other ISPs are available.

Download speed is not the only measure of worth of an internet connection. It is a very common one, and one VM rely on.

plusnet unlimited fibre 80/20 - 2 Jun 14 - Sync at 8/Apr/18: 62,153/9,919 - G.INP & 3.0 dB SNRm
19 years of broadband, from 1999's ntl:cable modem trial - Now using Asus RT-AC88U with BT HG612 - BQM

Edited by jchamier (Tue 17-Apr-18 23:35:21)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 18-Apr-18 09:20:01
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Not the routes, but whether some areas see latency increase from the average as an indicator that there is congestion

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Thu 19-Apr-18 14:05:31
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
If your requirement is for download speed (eg you use Steam!) then there is no question. If you use obscure websites and corporate (rather than home user) internet services then other ISPs are available.

Download speed is not the only measure of worth of an internet connection. It is a very common one, and one VM rely on.


I use SIP at home, we don't have a landline. I run an IPSec site2site VPN from my USG to a Cisco ASA for one of my jobs (where I work from home) I administer various servers etc with SSH, RDP, Teamviewer etc. I run various servers including a webserver, email server, plex server etc at home.

Yes, I also use steam a lot. I work from home commonly, but when I don't, I VPN back to home to avoid work mooching at my traffic.

Like I say, my ping is slightly higher than it was on FTTC - around 20ms rather than 8ms or so - but not so much that I notice or care about. I have no packet loss and I get double the single threaded throughput that I would get on FTTC.

What metrics am I missing out on? What services could I be using that would mean I would be better off with FTTC?
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 19-Apr-18 14:50:32
Print Post

Re: Thinkbroadband Speedtest capped download speed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Not the routes, but whether some areas see latency increase from the average as an indicator that there is congestion


Go to it Lord of Broadband Big Data wink
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