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Standard User Discus
(experienced) Thu 23-Aug-18 19:14:22
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Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[link to this post]
 
Wasn't sure how to word the title, so please bear with me.

Changed over to VF from BT yesterday. I knew the change was coming and really should have disconnected the old router as I would be out most of the day. However, my Wife was going to be at home and needed the internet and wasn't confident enough to swap routers when the old isp stopped provision. As it happens, the line was swapped out about 7am, so all day the BT router was trying to connect to the VF network. Would that have caused issues once finally connected at 5pm? Would the DLM have seen it as multiple failed connection attempts? I ask as my sync is 12mbs lower on VF than it was with BT, even though on the Superfast 2 package. When with SSE, I managed a whopping 63mbs, which dropped (increased) to 55mbs on Infinity 1, so 43 is a teeny bit lower.

Thanks

http://www.marksfish.me.uk - Personal fishkeeping website
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 23-Aug-18 19:50:16
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Discus] [link to this post]
 
I would not expect leaving the BT router connected to have caused a problem. I would expect it to have established a DSL connection but not be able to log into the Vodafone network because it would not have the correct PPPoE userid and password.

The Vodafone router does not establish a good DSL connection. One solution is to connect its covered up ethernet WAN port to an HG612 modem.

Michael Chare
Standard User Discus
(experienced) Thu 23-Aug-18 20:11:12
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
That makes sense, thank you. I have a 612 kicking around somewhere, i'll have to see if I can find it to try.

Cheers

http://www.marksfish.me.uk - Personal fishkeeping website


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Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 23-Aug-18 20:38:31
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Discus] [link to this post]
 
The HG612 needs 802.1p set to 2 and 802.1q set to 101
The one I bought on ebay came like that.

Michael Chare
Standard User Discus
(experienced) Thu 23-Aug-18 21:18:41
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Mine came direct from Openreach when I first got fibre. Does it need to be a hacked one or can I change those settings anyway?

http://www.marksfish.me.uk - Personal fishkeeping website
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 23-Aug-18 22:22:57
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Discus] [link to this post]
 
I would it first. Loading different firmware is not difficult if you follow the instructions on the Kitz website.

Michael Chare
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 23-Aug-18 23:00:26
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
PS See which might interest you! I think it is a Zyxel product.

Michael Chare
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 23-Aug-18 23:01:02
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Discus] [link to this post]
 
No need for any setting changes the Openreach bridge modems will just work.

On Vodafone I run a TP Link W9970 as a broadcom based VDSL2 bridge modem connected to Ethernet WAN port of the Vodafone router. The Vodafone router is happy detecting the PPPoE and connecting, and to confuse some it makes the nice claim I am connected over FTTP when doing this.

The vodafone router would drop connection randomly one a night when streaming, whereas with the bridge setup it is nice and stable

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mbames
(member) Fri 24-Aug-18 09:48:11
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Discus] [link to this post]
 
With your sync rate that low on the line if suggests an issue - maybe the VF router is dodgy. Having different ISP equipment plugged in won't cause any issues on the day of switch over.

When I changed from Sky to VF I was disconnected in the morning from Sky, but not reconnected to VF until the evening.

You can claim a part refund via the vodafone app on your phone (but only if you are using the VF modem)...

Vodafone Fibre (Superfast2 - 80/20), Draytek 130, DrayTek 2925, DrayTek AP-910c x 2
(Gone but not forgotten: AP-700, 2820n x 2, 2800vg, 2800, HG612)

Speedtests:
ThinkBB - Mini | ThinkBB - Full | Speedtest.net
Standard User Discus
(experienced) Sun 26-Aug-18 08:50:38
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Discus] [link to this post]
 
So I am a few days into my experience, I have disconnected a few times (only once a day) and the sync has risen to around 46Mbps, highest was 46.9, lowest 46.1. Upload has increased to 14Mbps. Still not getting anywhere near the 55Mbps guarantee for the product though.

I'm not clear on how to decipher the stats, but the VF router is reporting the following:

DSL Mode VDSL G.993.5 (VDSL)
Link type Interleaved path
Downstream Upstream
Actual data rate 46120 (Kbps.) 14893 (Kbps.)
Operating data
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin 6.3 dB 6.1 dB
Loop Attenuation 20.4 dB 19.5 dB
Error counter
Indicator name Downstream Upstream
FEC Corrections 197 8474
CRC Error 3 0
Statistics
Transmitted Frames Received Frames
Frame Counter 13685 40466

This is what the BT exchange checker tells me:

VDSL Range A (Clean) 65.4 45.9 15.2 10 39.8
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 52.9 32.4 13.1 6.9 25

I can't find the power supply to my OR modem and I don't have another to put on the line, but I am not sure the VF app would work with it. I need to leave it another 5 days before I can claim for under sync. I have also noticed a slowdown to under 1/2 sync on speedtests this weekend, both multi and single thread. Ho hum, this could be SSE over again frown

http://www.marksfish.me.uk - Personal fishkeeping website
Standard User sidef
(learned) Sun 26-Aug-18 10:25:01
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Discus] [link to this post]
 
Leave it a few more days.

It doesn't look like GINP is switched on yet assuming the VF router can support it. Your line attenuation is almost identical to mine and your sync rates matched mine without GINP enabled.

Assuming you aren't on an ECI cabinet, GINP when enabled should give you around 50 meg sync speed.

If DLM lowers your SNR to 3dB, you should get close to 60Meg sync, - which is what I'm on.
Standard User Discus
(experienced) Sun 26-Aug-18 10:33:53
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: sidef] [link to this post]
 
I have just found out my old SSE Technicolor router, got my username from VF and connected it. Sync has immediately improved, but still not enough to get over the 55 guarantee.

Line Rate 13.53 Mbps 48.6 Mbps
Output Power 6.9 dBm 6.9 dBm
Line Attenuation 2.8, 28.1, 45.7 dB 15.4, 37.3, 57.1 dB
Noise Margin 6.1 dB 6.1 dB

Obviously the VF app won't now connect, so will have to go around the houses to try and get any info out of VF, let alone invoke the guarantee as allegedly you can only do it through the app.

http://www.marksfish.me.uk - Personal fishkeeping website
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Sun 26-Aug-18 15:00:00
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Discus] [link to this post]
 
Bear in mind that newly provisioned VDSL2 connections (e.g. different backhaul, change of package speed) will effectively reset DLM. These days the default profile is downstream at INP 3 delay 8ms instead of fastpath (if you are connected to an ECI DSLAM), this will become fastpath after 48 hours or so unless DLM determines there's some instability. This was previously only applicable for connections on a Huawei DSLAM, due to G.INP taking over later on.

Edited by Ixel (Sun 26-Aug-18 15:01:34)

Standard User Discus
(experienced) Sun 26-Aug-18 16:19:10
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
I'm not very techy when it comes to the 'net unfortunately. From what I had read in the past though, I thought that the 10 day thing was a myth on fibre lines as the line should always sync at its highest rate. I also believed that DLM would not necessarily reset by default on a migration. I have no idea what DSLAM I am connected to (Cabinet 3, Sandy if anyone would like to find out), but have remained interleaved for the last 96 hours. That said, it took months for interleaving to be turned off and I am wondering if this is going to happen again.

http://www.marksfish.me.uk - Personal fishkeeping website
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 27-Aug-18 08:35:44
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Discus] [link to this post]
 
The DLM 10 day thing is a myth

The lines start as a fairly plain VDSL2 connection, but some enhancements only get enabled after a week or two, e.g. G.INP and lower target noise margins which can actually boost speeds beyond the standard assuming your cabinet is Huawei based.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 27-Aug-18 08:38:06
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ECI cabinet


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Sandy cabinet 3 is ECI based so no G.INP

So time to wait and claim the 15% off

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Discus
(experienced) Mon 27-Aug-18 08:55:01
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Re: ECI cabinet


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thank you.

http://www.marksfish.me.uk - Personal fishkeeping website
Standard User Discus
(experienced) Mon 03-Sep-18 18:28:27
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Discus] [link to this post]
 
I'm getting conflicting results from testers: Testmynet I can set to run x amount of tests every x amount of minutes, which is handy. It is showing the following graph, with the slowdown from 1pm.

https://testmy.net/stats/?&t=u&d=09032018&x=12&l=500...

The TBB test doesn't show as being so bad.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15359947856...

Testmy net is wired and single thread, TBB is wireless on different pc's. There is definitely something amiss on the connection, even with these results as Facebook/ Youtube videos buffer, more of an annoying screach in the sound as opposed to picture freezing. Could be using my 30 day guarantee to leave.

http://www.marksfish.me.uk - Personal fishkeeping website
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 03-Sep-18 18:48:29
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: Discus] [link to this post]
 
"even with these results as Facebook/ Youtube videos buffer"

Notice how on the https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15359947856... test that the speed is not consistent for the single download, so while nominally speeds look good, that dip from 6 seconds onwards would probably lead to problems with some video streams.

Its a classic case of the numbers look nice, but underlying data suggests something may be amiss.

The presumption is the the testmynet was not running when you ran our speed test, as that could cause exactly what you suggest and as the graph on that site suggests you are running the test a LOT then the act of running the test might be the cause of the streaming issues.

NOTE: Used to have streaming issues on my Vodafone connection until adding a bridge modem into its WAN port (under a sticker) did some swapping over a number of weeks and it was consistent i.e. when using the Vodafone router as both modem and router it would break the streams/connection every now and then. Now used as just the router it is a happy beast.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Discus
(experienced) Mon 03-Sep-18 19:09:08
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Re: Will the wrong router on the line cause issues?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
The presumption is the the testmynet was not running when you ran our speed test, as that could cause exactly what you suggest and as the graph on that site suggests you are running the test a LOT then the act of running the test might be the cause of the streaming issues.

Thanks for your reply. It is set to run every 30 minutes, so you are correct that is wasn't running at the time. The video issues aren't happening during test times either.

http://www.marksfish.me.uk - Personal fishkeeping website
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