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Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Sun 12-Jun-11 12:05:16
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123-reg spam filter


[link to this post]
 
I am trying to get my head around 123-reg's spam filter, but I think they have made a logic error.

Firstly, their spam settings page: http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3830/clipboard01ba.png

As I understand it, incoming mail is given a spam score, the higher the score, the more likely it is spam. This appears to be backed up by the line saying the higher you set the spam threshold, the more "spam-like" the message has to be to get flagged/deleted (i.e. the spam filter will be weaker).

But here's the problem. By default, emails are deleted when they reach a spam threshold of 4 and above, and they are flagged when they reach a threshold of 5 and above. Under these settings, spam will always be deleted before it is flagged, which defeats the whole point of having two thresholds. Not only that, but the system will refuse to allow you to even set the spam threshold for flagging below that of deleting.

It makes me wonder if the person who set this up got completely confused, which is worrying as having spam filters set too high results in false positives and lost mail.

Any thoughts on this?

Oliver.
Standard User micksharpe
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 12-Jun-11 12:32:03
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
I turned off my ISP's spam filter and just handle it myself.

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Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Sun 12-Jun-11 13:03:05
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: micksharpe] [link to this post]
 
Turning off the 123-reg spam filter seems like a good idea as it's a mess. Unfortunately though, there's no "off switch".

Oliver.


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Standard User john2007
(legend) Sun 12-Jun-11 16:18:39
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
To me it says 1 is definite spam, 10 is unlikey to be spam, i.e. the reverse of most spam ranking software which ranks spam e-mails high and non-spam low.
Standard User webfusion
(newbie) Mon 13-Jun-11 10:43:44
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: micksharpe] [link to this post]
 
Hi

I work on behalf of 123-reg.

If you wish to switch the spam filter to the weakest settings so that emails are not blocked please set your spam filter settings to 9 and 10.

How do I edit the spam filter on my mailbox/email forwarding?
http://123-support.co.uk/support/answers/how-do-i-ed...


Regards,

Ricky

Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-Jun-11 11:28:34
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: webfusion] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by webfusion:
If you wish to switch the spam filter to the weakest settings so that emails are not blocked please set your spam filter settings to 9 and 10.

If setting the threshold to 10 is the weakest setting, then that implies emails must get a spam score of 10 or over in order to get flagged. If that's the case, how is it possible for this to happen if emails with a spam score of 9 and over are deleted?

If I am not understanding the process correctly, please provide a full description of how email is spam scored, and how this relates to the spam settings in the control panel, because it's just plain confusing now.

Oliver.
Standard User john2007
(legend) Mon 13-Jun-11 12:26:10
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
They rank low numbers as more likely to be spam than high numbers. It's different from some other systems but it's understandable.

Just mentally subtract their numbers from 11 if it helps.
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-Jun-11 16:43:24
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
Ok, so a spam score of 0 is probably spam, and a spam score of 10 is probably not spam. In this case, on the default settings, spam scores of 4 and under are deleted, and 5 and under are flagged. That works.

Now, we've been advised that setting the spam filter to 9 or 10 is the weakest filter setting. However, if we are working on that basis, setting 9 or 10 would delete or flag everything with a score of 9 or 10 and below, i.e. pretty much most email.

Oliver.
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Wed 15-Jun-11 19:19:13
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: webfusion] [link to this post]
 
Ricky,

Please could you respond to my questions in my thread? Specifically, if emails which are probably spam are given a score of 1, how can setting the spam filter to delete emails scored 9 and under be the weakest setting?

Oliver.
Standard User webfusion
(newbie) Thu 16-Jun-11 10:44:57
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
Hi Oliver,

The scoring of email if spam / not spam is taken care by our servers and not through the setting via the control panel.

If you want the least detection and want to handle whether email is spam or not then set the spam setting to 9 and 10.

If you want a a higher detection and do not want to see or manage spam then you can set the spam setting to 4 and 5.

We agree with your point that it doesn't make sense to be able to set the flag threshold greater than the delete threshold.

123-reg will be updating our spam filtering feature in the coming months to ensure that the options are more detailed and less confusing in the next couple of months.

Thank you for your feedback.

If you have any specific problems with email please raise a support ticket via www.123-support.co.uk


Regards,

Ricky

Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Thu 16-Jun-11 11:35:16
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: webfusion] [link to this post]
 
Hi Ricky,

Thanks for your reply.

I take it from your post that an email given a score of 10 by your system is probably spam, and an email given a score of 1 by your system is probably not spam (the traditional spam scoring method). Also, a delete settings of 9 will delete email given a score of 9 or over by your system, and a flag setting of 10 will flag emails given a score of 10 or over by your system (which would be impossible if the delete setting was 9 or over).

Is my understanding correct?

Oliver.
Standard User tates
(newbie) Tue 01-Nov-11 14:48:11
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: webfusion] [link to this post]
 
Oliver,
I am so glad I found your post on the forum as I was beginning to think that it was only me who thought the explainations on 123reg spam settings were at least confusing and indeed contradictory.

From the 123reg help pages I quote with numbered paras.

----------------
1) Use these settings to score your incoming emails for spam detection. A score of 10 means that the email won't appear as spam, while a score of 1 means the email is definitely spam.

2) If you set your delete level high enough spam emails will be automatically deleted. Please note: you cannot set your Spam delete level to a setting that is higher than your Spam flag level.

3) Note: In order to set the spam settings to weakest possible settings please choose 9 and 10, this will allow most emails to come through.

----------------------------------------------------

In para 2 123reg say if you set your spam settings high enough spam emails will be automatically deleted. This implies that a setting of 9 or 10 will delete spam. Yes?

In para 3 they say to set the settings to the weakest possible use 9 and 10. BUT these are high settings which in the earlier paragraph says you do this to auto delete spam.

These statements appear in contradiction. In one case 9 would delete in the other 9 will be a weak setting.

Then we get the second point - the system won't let you set the delete to a higher number than the warn. With the higher numbers meaning less rigourous spam filtering it would seem these are the wrong way around.

I think 123-reg changed their spam filtering system on the server after they had written the help and web pages and have left it in a most confusing state.

Also the radio buttons for turning on/off the spam filtering DONT WORK...

Don't hold your breath for a fix - all I get back from support is "use 9 & 10 if you want weakest spam filtering".

Insert Code
Standard User webfusion
(newbie) Tue 01-Nov-11 15:03:26
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: tates] [link to this post]
 
Hi

We are actually revamping the email management section of the control panel.

We expect the changes to be available to customers before the end of the year.



Regards,

Ricky

Standard User tates
(newbie) Tue 01-Nov-11 15:05:02
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
To me it says 1 is definite spam, 10 is unlikey to be spam, i.e. the reverse of most spam ranking software which ranks spam e-mails high and non-spam low.


Yes this would appear to be correct after practical tests. Setting your filter to a high number does not flag many emails as spam. So the filter tags emails with a score HIGHER than the filter setting number. That is why the delete/reject has to be set at the same or lower (i.e. more spammiy) setting. Would be much better if they worked the normal way of most spam ranking software.
Standard User tates
(newbie) Tue 01-Nov-11 15:19:06
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: webfusion] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by webfusion:
Hi

We are actually revamping the email management section of the control panel.

We expect the changes to be available to customers before the end of the year.



Regards,

Ricky


Ricky,

I look forward to the revamp of the email control panel. As well as this spam setting issue it would be nice if when you say altered an email forwarding setting and confirmed it it then went back to the earlier page to allow more changes to the same email domain. At present it seems to go right back to the beginning and you have to select your domain from the drop down list once again. Not helpful for those with multiple domains and forwards set up.

Also I wonder why your control panel web pages seem to love LOVE blank lines. Yes by this I mean that on a normal little laptop you often have to scroll down past blank lines to get to the significant part. (hey just like your email above - extra blank lines before "Regards" .... smile

Andy
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Wed 09-Nov-11 22:57:12
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: tates] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tates:
Yes this would appear to be correct after practical tests. Setting your filter to a high number does not flag many emails as spam. So the filter tags emails with a score HIGHER than the filter setting number. That is why the delete/reject has to be set at the same or lower (i.e. more spammiy) setting. Would be much better if they worked the normal way of most spam ranking software.

This still doesn't make sense though. If spam scoring is the opposite to the norm, then an email given a score of 10 is less spammy than an email given a score of 5.

Well in that case setting the spam delete/flag levels to 1/2 should allow the most spam through, as opposed to 9/10.

We know that the spam delete level has to be lower than the spam flag score, which I agree backs up the theory that an email with a score of 5 is more spammy than an email with a score of 10. However 123-reg's advice to set the filter at 9/10 completely contradicts it.

The 123-reg spam filter control panel is an utter farce as it stands, it is entirely illogical.

Oliver.

Edited by Oliver341 (Wed 09-Nov-11 22:59:18)

Standard User henry669
(newbie) Thu 23-May-13 11:27:56
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
Did this issue ever get resolved? The 123-reg spam page still seems the same to me - and, I agree, illogical. In particular, is there a way to specify that emails marked as spam get delivered to a spam folder but not actually deleted? The obvious thing to do is to set the flagging threshold to, say, 5 and to set the deletion threshold to whatever means none get deleted. According to what the page says, this would be 10. But, if the flagging threshold is 5, the site stops you from setting the deletion threshold at anything higher than 5. My suspicion is that, actually, it is a deletion threshold of 0 that means nothing gets deleted - but I am reluctant to conduct tests because it might mean genuine emails getting deleted.
Standard User roseway
(experienced) Thu 23-May-13 12:31:11
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: henry669] [link to this post]
 
I couldn't work it out, and I lost some emails mysteriously at the time, so I decided to dump 123-reg and I moved my domains to 1&1.
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Thu 23-May-13 21:45:01
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: henry669] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by henry669:
Did this issue ever get resolved?

No, 123-reg's spam filter is still illogical despite the page being re-written, which is very bad for something as important as email delivery.

As you say, if someone wants to disable spam deletion, but enable spam flagging, then since 10 = weak filtering and 5 = medium filtering, you could conceivably think that deletion level 10 and flagging level 5 would be the best option. Except that the system doesn't allow this configuration, which makes no sense.

Oliver.
Standard User henry669
(newbie) Mon 17-Jun-13 10:45:12
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
I've now conducted an extensive "dialogue" with 123-reg by means of opening a support ticket. They continue to insist that the spam filter is working as intended but have at no time given me a clear logical answer as to how it works. The interpretation that best fits the facts is, I think as follows:

1. Emails are ranked from 0 to 10. Emails with a score of 10 are more likely to be spam than lower scores.

2. A flagging threshold of 5 means that emails with a score greater than 5 are flagged as spam.

3 A deletion threshold of 5 means that emails with a score greater than 5 are deleted.

So, if, as most people want, you want moderate flagging but no deletion (so that you can check for false positives) then to set flagging threshold to 5 and deletion to 10 would make complete sense. However, of course, the system prevents you from setting the deletion threshold to a higher number than the flagging threshold. The simplest explanation is that 123-reg has set this control the wrong way round and, if they just corrected this, the system would work fine.

As it is, if the flagging and deletion thresholds are the same, then all flagged emails get deleted. And, if the deletion threshold is a lower number than flagging, either MORE emails will get deleted, or, if the deletion mechanism just looks at emails already flagged, then all flagged emails will be deleted as before. So, as it is, it seems to me that it acts as a simple spam deletion system without providing the option of receiving flagged spam so that you can check for false positives. The only safe option is to set both flagging and deletion thresholds to 10, which effectively switches it off. (Beware of actually doing this, though, since my analysis here might be wrong, and, since the information from 123-reg is illogical and self-contradictory, we cannot be sure that settings of 10 aren't the worst for deleting things.)

If my analysis is correct, then ALL detected spam would get deleted and I would never see any of it. This is, in fact, exactly what has happened in my case - no email has ever been delivered flagged to my inbox, or (flagged or not) to a separate spam folder - and, when I was using BT-Yahoo, my address used to get lots of spam. However, one or two contributors to this chain have implied that they HAVE seen flagged email. SO, I have two questions to this forum, please:

1. Has anyone using 123-reg webmail ever seen spam delivered to a separate spam folder, or seen emails flagged as spam delivered to their inbox? and
2. It seems likely that I will end up dumping 123-reg and moving elsewhere. One of the contributors suggested 1&1. A comparison site gave HostPapa as the best - but are such sites to be trusted? Any advice, please? I want web hosting as well as domain name hosting.
Standard User Netken
(newbie) Mon 09-Jul-18 11:05:35
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
I host a website on 123-reg. On my website I have a number of forms that visits can fill in to contact me. I have being trying to understand why emails that have the Yahoo.co.uk extension are not delivered to the address I have configured in the scripting software that runs my forms.
After spending hours try to sort out the scripting software configuration I have now been informed by a 123 Reg technician their Spam filter blocks all emails with the Yahoo extension as they believe Yahoo are high risk emails. This seem to suggest to me, if you are running a form on your website hosted by 123 Reg, you will not receive an email from a visitor with an Yahoo email address.
Does anyone else have the same experience and what is the solution.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 09-Jul-18 13:11:49
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: Netken] [link to this post]
 
It depends on the form software. It's bad practice to make the "from" address on the email which the website sends the same as the "from" address of the website visitor, since it will likely get flagged as spam due to SPF/DKIM.

Best practice is for the email to have some generic host-specific "from" address, e.g. server74837@123-reg.co.uk and then set the "reply-to" address to match the address of the website visitor. This would not break SPF/DKIM rules whilst still allowing the recipient to reply to the email normally.

How you would do that varies depending on what form software you are using.

Oliver.

Edited by Oliver341 (Mon 09-Jul-18 13:32:25)

Standard User Kalinihta
(newbie) Thu 22-Nov-18 11:34:54
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Re: 123-reg spam filter


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
How to connect email checking via spammers database?
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