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Standard User Dodgexander
(newbie) Sun 16-Jan-11 19:47:12
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Suitable 20CN/ADSL Max/Market 1 ISP.


[link to this post]
 
Hi Everyone. I'm researching a new ISP to change too since my O2 Home Access package runs out next month.

Googling and browsing several forums has given me basic knowledge, but its hard to fish out some decent and up to date info. I would say the most useful thread I've read is here credit to the users who posted in itsmile

My priorities are:

1- I want to be able to use torrents, play games with low ping and watch youtube/iplayer during peak hours. If my connection can take it, the option to turn off interleaving would be nice.
2- Peak Usage Ideally around the 20+gb pm, obv the more the better.
3- Unlimited off-peak, the more hours the better.
4- Budget is £20pm since my father has now got use to paying 17.89pm for rubbish o2 access BB without realising how bad it is! Thanks o2 for being able to offer broadband so cheap....you have made my job to find an isp that doesn't neglect our internet experience harder!

A note:
1- Although were only 2.6mile from the exchange, our line is very bad quality. 1.5mbs ADSL max is the best we can get.

What I have seen as my main options:

1- Plusnet extra. Since they limit p2p traffic in this package at the most down to 256kbps for a couple of hours, this would be perfect for my connection as I can only download at 130kpbs max anyway. For this reason, along with the price, i'm leaning most towards this option.

2- Xilo Home25. What I like about Xilo is the fact they mention they don't traffic shape at all. Does anyone know how well they prioritise their connections? Will it be a problem for me to watch iplayer at 7pm since other Xilo users could be p2ping?

3- Vivaciti Family 30. Two things put me off this package, the first is the 120gb offpeak limit. Although I may find it hard to reach, I feel I need unlimited. The second thing that puts me off the package is reading about Enternet and recent speed downfalls. I also read its very dependent on where abouts you live, are these statements correct?

Well, thats my shortlist so far, but I have a few of questions.

1- Plus.net and Vivaciti's offpeak hours are 12-8am, but Xilos aren't listed on their site, does anyone know them?
2- Plus.net and Xilo have month 2 month contracts but i cant see if vivaciti do, does anyone know?
3- Plus.net pro..why is the usage less (20gb) than plusnetextra(60gb) but it costs more. Is it just traffic prioritising?

I feel that since my sync speed is so slow anyway, I may as well go for the plus.net extra, but xilo seems appealing too. Is it really just the 25gb peak vs 60gb peak and the price differences that i need to think about, or have a missed something?

One last question (and thanks very much for anyone who has taken the time to read). My o2 subscription ends on the 11th of Febuary. Does this mean when I sign up to the new service, I need to set that exact day as my switch date? Will I need to contact o2 to stop them from auto charging for another term, or just need to ask for the mac code.

Dont want to make a mistake jumping the gun this time, so open to any other viable suggestions!

Thanks very much.

Tim Sudall
Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 16-Jan-11 19:54:42
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Re: Suitable 20CN/ADSL Max/Market 1 ISP.


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Dodgexander:
2- Xilo Home25. What I like about Xilo is the fact they mention they don't traffic shape at all. Does anyone know how well they prioritise their connections? Will it be a problem for me to watch iplayer at 7pm since other Xilo users could be p2ping?


All about how you manage your capacity in the first place. We do not shape or touch traffic at all... yet you won't have any problems using iPlayer.

All our 20CN products are usage based and at 7pm, it is classed as peak usage which means that any excessive P2P usage counted towards allowances and then charged if peak usage is exceeded.

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Standard User Dodgexander
(newbie) Sun 16-Jan-11 21:51:54
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Re: Suitable 20CN/ADSL Max/Market 1 ISP.


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Thanks.

I have a few questions about your service.

1- What are the "free night usage" hours?
2- What is the charge if you go over the peak limit?
3- Can you change the connection to interleave?
4- How do I sign up efficiently when my exisitng contract expires on the 11th February, can i organise it in advance?


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Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 16-Jan-11 21:56:56
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Re: Suitable 20CN/ADSL Max/Market 1 ISP.


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
1 - Home peak is 8am-12am Mon-Fri. All other times are off-peak/night usage.
2 - £1.10 per GB + VAT
3 - Yes, you can too via the control panel
4 - You ideally need to migrate, you can do this via the site today and select a date that suits you.

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 16-Jan-11 23:18:34
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Re: Suitable 20CN/ADSL Max/Market 1 ISP.


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
Welcome to the forums, and thanks for registering smile. Anonymous questions are a nuisance as often other ones jump in as well and it all gets messy.

A lot to answer there, and possibly a couple or so misconceptions.

Your points (1) and (2), can you say roughly what times you mean by "peak", as some ISPs mean the working day or around it, and others (like O2) mean their period of highest demand, which can be early evenings and weekends.

Your "Options" list:-

(1) That is 256k bits per second. Would I be right in thinking you are talking about your downloads being 130k Bytes per second, as that is about 1000kbps.

I also think you may be mis-reading this table. I see periods much greater than "a couple of hours", and speeds as low as 128kbps.

(2) xilo/uno. You have had a bit of a conversation with them whilst I abandoned this after typing the128kbps, to watch Zen on tele! I recommend them as an ISP.

(3) You have misread the vivaciti site. The Family 30 is unlimited off-peak. The 120GB is the highest package of the range, giving 120GB in peak. You are right that getting very good performance depends on where you live, but that doesn't mean that the performance anywhere is poor. Just perhaps not as good as the best. I think it will be me you have seen saying it.

I don't know where you have seen anything about "recent speed downfalls", but if I've missed something I'd like to know. I don't like to mislead people by being out of touch with things like that.

Re Question 2, vivaciti family range are monthly contract.

Re the leaving O2 procedure, have a read of my The MAC Process page. O2 have to supply the MAC within 5 days, and the usual time-lapse between ordering from your new ISP with the MAC is 5-10 working days. It entirely depends on Openreach work schedules.

Your existing O2 contract is not technically a 12-month one. It is a monthly one with a 12-month minimum term. So at the end of it you just automatically go on to monthly contract. Therefore in fact there is no panic, but now you have got this far it would be pointless to slow down.

You need to allow a little bit of overlap where you pay two ISPs for a few days, in case for whatever reason Openreach do not move you on the scheduled day. If you have timed things for the last day of your O2 contract and the migration takes place the next day instead, then you will end up paying for a whole month but get less than 24 hours service from it.

Although uno are one of the (few) ISPs that will arrange a specific date for you if possible, I doubt if they can guarantee it.

Also note the underlined bit on the MAC Process page about making sure you tell O2 as soon as you have migrated away.

Remember to ask O2 to supply you with a postage paid bag for the O2 Box, and get a Proof of posting slip from the Post Office when you send it. If you don't return it, or it doesn't arrive and you haven't got the Proof of Posting, they will charge you £50 for it.

And finally, if you find your full line stats from the O2 Box, see here for help, we can see if improvements could be made to your line to increase your connection speed. That wouldn't help you much on O2, but worth looking into while you have that O2 Box.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User Dodgexander
(newbie) Mon 17-Jan-11 00:57:17
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Re: Suitable 20CN/ADSL Max/Market 1 ISP.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks a lot for your help!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Welcome to the forums, and thanks for registering smile. Anonymous questions are a nuisance as often other ones jump in as well and it all gets messy.


I figured it would be best to register, forums are often confusing enough as it is and im not use to this UI!

In answer to your questions:
Your points (1) and (2), can you say roughly what times you mean by "peak", as some ISPs mean the working day or around it, and others (like O2) mean their period of highest demand, which can be early evenings and weekends.


By peak I just meant the usual 8am-12am that ISPs seem to have. I have kind of come to terms to the fact I will need to schedule most of my downloads while im asleep, but obviously the more time non-peak during the day the better.

Your "Options" list:-

(1) That is 256k bits per second. Would I be right in thinking you are talking about your downloads being 130k Bytes per second, as that is about 1000kbps.


Yes ive got mixed up again! I should know better. My iprofile is just over 1000kbitsps and download speed is max 130kbytesps.

I also think you may be mis-reading this table. I see periods much greater than "a couple of hours", and speeds as low as 128kbps.


I presumed the rating was in kilobytes per second, not Kilobits, am I wrong? My theory was that if my download speed is going to reach 130kilobytes ps then it shouldnt affect me so much, but if its indeed Kilobits, thats kind of major. Im looking at the extra package btw, not the value.

(2) xilo/uno. You have had a bit of a conversation with them whilst I abandoned this after typing the128kbps, to watch Zen on tele! I recommend them as an ISP.


You mean you recommend the ISP Zen or Zilo/Uno?

(3) You have misread the vivaciti site. The Family 30 is unlimited off-peak. The 120GB is the highest package of the range, giving 120GB in peak. You are right that getting very good performance depends on where you live, but that doesn't mean that the performance anywhere is poor. Just perhaps not as good as the best. I think it will be me you have seen saying it.
I don't know where you have seen anything about "recent speed downfalls", but if I've missed something I'd like to know. I don't like to mislead people by being out of touch with things like that.


Your right, I blame my incompetence or dyslexia, or both. No wonder I find this complicated! It is interesting though.

As for the performance reports, I read that Entanet isp performance depends heavily on your central node and how full it is of bandwith. This put me off, firstly because the o2 access network is overloaded and caused me a year of interent misery and secondly because some of these reports seem to be recent, such as this and this one, finally I have no way to find out if I will be one of these affected customers, should I choose a Entanet service.

Re Question 2, vivaciti family range are monthly contract.


Thanks

Seems its back to almost even stevens between Xilo and Vivaciti, should I have been incorrect about plus.net ofc any others I should consider?

Re the leaving O2 procedure, have a read of my The MAC Process page. O2 have to supply the MAC within 5 days, and the usual time-lapse between ordering from your new ISP with the MAC is 5-10 working days. It entirely depends on Openreach work schedules.

Your existing O2 contract is not technically a 12-month one. It is a monthly one with a 12-month minimum term. So at the end of it you just automatically go on to monthly contract. Therefore in fact there is no panic, but now you have got this far it would be pointless to slow down.

You need to allow a little bit of overlap where you pay two ISPs for a few days, in case for whatever reason Openreach do not move you on the scheduled day. If you have timed things for the last day of your O2 contract and the migration takes place the next day instead, then you will end up paying for a whole month but get less than 24 hours service from it.

Although uno are one of the (few) ISPs that will arrange a specific date for you if possible, I doubt if they can guarantee it.

Also note the underlined bit on the MAC Process page about making sure you tell O2 as soon as you have migrated away.

Remember to ask O2 to supply you with a postage paid bag for the O2 Box, and get a Proof of posting slip from the Post Office when you send it. If you don't return it, or it doesn't arrive and you haven't got the Proof of Posting, they will charge you £50 for it.

And finally, if you find your full line stats from the O2 Box, see here for help, we can see if improvements could be made to your line to increase your connection speed. That wouldn't help you much on O2, but worth looking into while you have that O2 Box.


Great, that makes the whole migration alot easier for me to understand.

I honestly don't know where the talk of o2 having good customer service comes from, I have never received good customer service from them. Yes if you don't know a telephone socket from electrical, but for any kind of technical problems, they are rubbish. No clue at all. I remember spending 2 or 3 phone calls just to find out my username to connect using a 3rd party router!

Due to problems in the past, I have two O2 wireless boxes, so i guess i will need to return them both.

We have had a long line of problems at this address with adsl, ever since we first had it activated. I estimate over the years we have had probably around 5 bt engineers investigate, it was only until last year they seem to have fixed the problem, a loose connector in the local telephone box...nice one! The 5th engineer also found out that the so called test socket our builders installed, wasnt infact the main socket, which probably didnt help for testing purposes! As you can imagine, being dragged through troubleshooting process after troubleshooting process, ive got to the stage now where I can call myself semi-knowledgeable when it comes to wiring things up correctly etc. Right now the router i'm using is an SMC Barricade N SMC7904WBRA-N which I may replace for something else that doesn't reset with too many p2p connections! here are the stats anyway:

Im connected with a small lead between the router and the main socket in the house.

Up Stream
448 (Kbps.)

Down Stream
1280 (Kbps.)

Noise Margin
11 dB
11 dB

Attenuation
31 dB
67 dB

Indicator Name
Near End Indicator
Far End Indicator

HEC Error
46
0

CRC Error
16
5

Statistics:
Received Cells
1266569

Transmitted Cells
2043971

Weve tried various things, after the line was fixed, o2 reset the line to see if it could sync better, we tried lowering the SNR (or raising it, cant quite remember) to tweak performance but it doesn't seem to help. The bt engineer even wired us up to a different line between the box and exchange AND had a look at the exchange at our server. For some reason our line is just rubbish quality! The good ol telegraph poles dont cut it anymore...grr.

Thanks for the great and intuitive help.
Standard User 4M2
(member) Mon 17-Jan-11 03:35:25
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Re: Suitable 20CN/ADSL Max/Market 1 ISP.


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
Put your 67dB down attenuation into this calculator http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php - does the line length to your exchange approximate to 4.9 km or 3 miles?
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 17-Jan-11 09:16:11
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Re: Suitable 20CN/ADSL Max/Market 1 ISP.


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
OK re the "peak" times. It's O2 and BT and that sort that tend to mean "busy" rather than "working day".

I was looking at the Plusnet Extra table as well. It is definitely kilobits.

Lol re Zen. No, not the ISP. A semi-spoof detective series on the Beeb. But Zen are amongst the top class.

67dB and 31dB are the maximum attenuation figures that many routers report, so the actual could be even higher. From what you say I expect you have removed the ring/bell wires, so it looks as though you aren't going to improve on that.

Let us know what you decide and how it goes. Or of course, any further question smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User Dodgexander
(newbie) Mon 17-Jan-11 10:35:16
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Re: Suitable 20CN/ADSL Max/Market 1 ISP.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
Put your 67dB down attenuation into this calculator http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php - does the line length to your exchange approximate to 4.9 km or 3 miles?


Its 2.6m cable distance I think, so its about right considering the line is very old.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:
OK re the "peak" times. It's O2 and BT and that sort that tend to mean "busy" rather than "working day".

I was looking at the Plusnet Extra table as well. It is definitely kilobits.

Lol re Zen. No, not the ISP. A semi-spoof detective series on the Beeb. But Zen are amongst the top class.

67dB and 31dB are the maximum attenuation figures that many routers report, so the actual could be even higher. From what you say I expect you have removed the ring/bell wires, so it looks as though you aren't going to improve on that.

Let us know what you decide and how it goes. Or of course, any further question smile.


Zen, is that that thing with the guy from Tristen and Isolde in it? Looks pretty good.

I think I remember seeing those figures higher than what they are now, but im not sure.

Yes the BT engineer installed on of those new sockets that filters the ring/bell wire, so all is good in that respect.

Its between Vivicity and Xilo now then, il update you when I make my decision. Thanks a lot for pointing out that its indeed Kilobits rather than kilbytes on plus.nets site, they dont make that clear.

Sigh I miss the days of ADSL 2 and 24mbps internet (I use to get it when i lived in holland). I know il definitely be checking the post code and phone number when I move out, but seriously this country is behind when it comes to adsl...
Standard User Dodgexander
(newbie) Wed 26-Jan-11 13:44:56
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Completed Order


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
Just wanted to say thanks to Matt and the Independant advice from RobertoS and 4m2. This forum is such a great resource to find information regarding broadband which is confusing to say the least when you just look at providors directly.

I have just finished placing an order for Home 5gb with Xilo, I did want to opt for the 25gb version, but my dad sadly couldnt see the advantage of spending £2 a month more than we have done so far with o2. Hopefully when he sees the service is better, he will change his mind and we can upgrade so I can atleast download a few things during the day! Sigh money is pretty tight these days!

I will update once ive tried the service, in comparison to o2, I hope it will be a lot better!
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 26-Jan-11 13:54:08
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Re: Completed Order


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
It should be far better. Good luck.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User Dodgexander
(newbie) Mon 31-Jan-11 15:16:12
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Re: Completed Order


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
This is so much of an improvement. My latency in world of warcraft has gone from between 1000ms to 8000ms to nothing above 200ms.

I was even able to watch a 720p movie on youtube which is impressive to say the least considering my bandwidth.

Thankyou thankyou thankyou to Xilo for making things so much easier for me!
Standard User Dodgexander
(newbie) Mon 31-Jan-11 15:40:36
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Re: Completed Order


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
Does anyone know what these settings should be set as for my connection?

Im not sure what they mean.

QoS Class: UBR VBR or CBR
PCR/SCR/MBS

I currently have them set to default values.
Standard User wolvesmad
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 31-Jan-11 16:04:18
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Re: Completed Order


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
Xilo rule! Best ISP I have ever been with

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XILO.net Office 8Mb
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