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Standard User n3m0
(newbie) Thu 19-May-11 19:47:55
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Orange? Wow...

[link to this post]
Ok. I'm no dummy. wait a minute... maybe I am. Just moved to the UK and chose Orange DSL. Figured it'd be ok because the previous owner had it and said it was ok (must not have known any better). It's been a month. If you are looking for a provider, stay FAR FAR away from this company. Here's my history....

-sign up
-two weeks and connection not activated even though previous tenant had Orange.
-call and they say should be on the next day
-a week goes by
-go the store and they say i was lost in the system and sign me up again
-two more weeks go by
-connection finally starts
-internet completely unusable due to consistent ~20% packet loss
-isolate issue to something outside of the residence
-call and the polite/nice but unable to help rep state they are not allowed to escalate until "stabilization period" of 10 working days is complete (she didn't understand what DLM or packet loss is when I asked)
-packet loss went away for a day.
-now I see the below response time.

I could lament all the ways this impacts me professionally and personally but maybe I should just get the address of their accounts payable department and send an invoice for all my pain and suffering. Orange. You suck.

For the non-technical folks out there, the below shows no internet connection for almost four minutes, followed by waves of 5 second responses due to some type of throttling on the orange network. Average response time should be in the 100ms range. Absolute garbage.

$ ping
PING ( 56 data bytes

64 bytes from icmp_seq=210 ttl=50 time=5076 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=211 ttl=50 time=4076 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=212 ttl=50 time=3076 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=213 ttl=50 time=2076 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=214 ttl=50 time=1076 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=215 ttl=50 time=76 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=216 ttl=50 time=5064 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=217 ttl=50 time=4064 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=218 ttl=50 time=3064 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=219 ttl=50 time=2064 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=220 ttl=50 time=1064 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=221 ttl=50 time=64 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=222 ttl=50 time=5078 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=223 ttl=50 time=4078 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=224 ttl=50 time=3078 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=225 ttl=50 time=2078 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=226 ttl=50 time=1069 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=227 ttl=50 time=69 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=228 ttl=50 time=5117 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=229 ttl=50 time=4117 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=230 ttl=50 time=3117 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=231 ttl=50 time=2117 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=232 ttl=50 time=1117 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=233 ttl=50 time=117 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=234 ttl=50 time=5059 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=235 ttl=50 time=4059 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=236 ttl=50 time=3059 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=237 ttl=50 time=2059 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=238 ttl=50 time=1060 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=239 ttl=50 time=60 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=240 ttl=50 time=5066 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=241 ttl=50 time=4066 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=242 ttl=50 time=3066 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=243 ttl=50 time=2066 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=244 ttl=50 time=1066 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=245 ttl=50 time=65 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=246 ttl=50 time=5081 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=247 ttl=50 time=4081 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=248 ttl=50 time=3081 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=249 ttl=50 time=2081 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=250 ttl=50 time=1081 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=251 ttl=50 time=81 ms
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Thu 19-May-11 20:07:09
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Re: Orange? Wow...

[re: n3m0] [link to this post]
This isn't throttling, this is a line error.

Standard User n3m0
(newbie) Thu 19-May-11 20:23:17
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Re: Orange? Wow...

[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
That was my initial thought when I saw the packet loss. I'm more of a network guy (cable HE systems) and every time I've seen packet loss it was a physical issue (bad port, wire, card, etc.). But when the packet loss went away I was kind of scratching my head. I have seen overloaded ATM circuits demonstrate the response profile in my first post. Not sure if that's what this is here.

The question is, do I walk in the store and demand they release me from contract and try another provider? Or am I doomed with a BT-owned physical issue that will be present no matter who I choose?

My neighbors all have the Virgin option but being I'm in a class2 listed building I'm the only block on the street without. Maybe run a 200' crossover cable through a neighbors window? tongue

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Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Thu 19-May-11 20:30:19
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Re: Orange? Wow...

[re: n3m0] [link to this post]
err, you could use wireless or 3g too.

Thing is, it shouldn't be that bad, there's definitely something wrong. You probably need to get that sorted out as any ISP connection may be the same.

I don't see why you can't get Virgin cable in a listed building though.

Standard User n3m0
(newbie) Thu 19-May-11 21:12:46
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Re: Orange? Wow...

[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
The class 2 thing, yeah, I dunno. That's what Virgin told me. I need to figure out what path will get me on a stable connection the quickest.

The packet loss thing is never fun. I've been on way too many concalls with providers trying to guide their network teams in narrowing down the source of the issue with traffic captures between nodes. Same story everytime. So my hopes of convincing the sometimes indifferent customer service reps at Orange to get to get someone out that can figure this out are a little dim. I'll flash them best smile and give them my most woeful story this weekend but we'll see where that goes.

Options? Let's say, hypothetically of course, that you happened to know someone that architected the LDAP service for a major provider and hard coded in a test account that could be used to authenticate with any shared partner across the world. Then you would have free wifi anywhere you can get a signal. My dilemma is that at times I need a fast and stable connection so I don't have to run out of the house when something critical comes up or mess around with alternate connection methods when I want to do connect real quick and my Orange connection is acting a fool.

Nice flat, but if Orange can't resolve the line issue for me before my lease is up I will be moving to another place and forever curse their name. smile

I guess what I really need is a place to vent and get a quick sanity check. Thank you !

Edited by n3m0 (Thu 19-May-11 21:14:50)

Standard User n3m0
(newbie) Fri 20-May-11 08:22:49
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Re: Orange? Wow...

[re: n3m0] [link to this post]
More of the same this AM. Ugh. Did a little research and I'm leaning towards thinking that I have a mix of a line and CDVT issue. Let's say the line was perfect and this was strictly related to traffic shaping... Would BT or Orange have control over these parameters? IOW, Does Orange have administrative control over leased circuits such that they are responsible for QoS profiles?
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1728 ttl=50 time=5055 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1729 ttl=50 time=4055 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1730 ttl=50 time=3055 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1731 ttl=50 time=2054 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1732 ttl=50 time=1055 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1733 ttl=50 time=55 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1734 ttl=50 time=5060 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1735 ttl=50 time=4060 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1736 ttl=50 time=3061 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1737 ttl=50 time=2061 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1738 ttl=50 time=1061 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1739 ttl=50 time=61 ms PING Statistics----
2269 packets transmitted, 897 packets received, 60.5% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max/med = 53/2593/5173/3055
Standard User n3m0
(newbie) Fri 20-May-11 08:48:02
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Re: Orange? Wow...

[re: n3m0] [link to this post]
OK. Done looking for now. If you have any advice or another take BatBoy I appreciate it. Just found this thread which is dated but interesting...
Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Fri 20-May-11 10:35:13
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Re: Orange? Wow...

[re: n3m0] [link to this post]
HI, sorry to hear of your Orange woes. I joined them last year and the broadband was connected within 3 hours on the day they stated it would be.
Orange is in the process of moving their customers to BT WBC 21CN network the all-digital exchange.

what exchange are you connected to? It might put us more in the picture.

And what figures do your router stats give?

2Wire 2700HGV router.
DSL Connection Details
Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A
Downstream Rate: 11830 kbps
Upstream Rate: 1153 kbps
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 10.0 dB (Downstream), 5.8 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 30.2 dB (Downstream), 14.8 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 18.5 dBm (Downstream), 11.9 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {BDCM} Specific: {0x9662}

Orange (SMPF) LLU 20 Meg. Sync 11864 Kbps Downstream, 1157 Kbps Upstream.
3Com 3CRWDR101A-75 ADSL2/2+ wireless router
Netgear DGN1000 ADSL2+ wireless N 150 Router supplied by Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router

Edited by E7er (Fri 20-May-11 11:03:15)

Standard User n3m0
(newbie) Fri 20-May-11 22:36:04
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Re: Orange? Wow...

[re: E7er] [link to this post]
/// Connection is decent when I just logged in. Here's the exchange...

/// Here's the stats of the moment, I'll take another snapshot when things go sour again...

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 14808 kbps 1168 kbps
Line Attenuation 24.6 db 12.6 db
Noise Margin 5.1 db 6.8 db

/// During primetime I logged 5 minute spikes of some serious latency different than the earlier noted 5 second burst pattern...

64 bytes from icmp_seq=14068 ttl=248 time=20672 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14069 ttl=248 time=19672 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14070 ttl=248 time=18672 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14071 ttl=248 time=17672 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14072 ttl=248 time=16672 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14073 ttl=248 time=15671 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14074 ttl=248 time=14671 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14075 ttl=248 time=13671 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14076 ttl=248 time=12671 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14077 ttl=248 time=11672 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14078 ttl=248 time=10672 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14079 ttl=248 time=9672 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14080 ttl=248 time=265473 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14081 ttl=248 time=264473 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14082 ttl=248 time=263473 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14083 ttl=248 time=262473 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14084 ttl=248 time=261471 ms
Standard User iand
(experienced) Sat 21-May-11 05:40:41
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Re: Orange? Wow...

[re: n3m0] [link to this post]
Do a tracert and see which part of the link between you and the servers is struggling.


Tracing route to []
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms xx.xx.xx.xx
2 46 ms 47 ms 46 ms [xx.xx.xx.xx]
3 47 ms 46 ms 47 ms [xx.xx.xx.xx]
4 162 ms 130 ms 47 ms [
5 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms []
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 50 ms 47 ms 58 ms
8 62 ms 61 ms 61 ms
9 60 ms 60 ms 60 ms

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