General Discussion
  >> Which ISP? (Residential)


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User purpledoodle
(newbie) Fri 06-Jan-12 15:55:24
Print Post

Fibre Broadband which isp BT or Plusnet?


[link to this post]
 
Hi I am currently living in a 3 story old house- isp is Plusnet. I get 12mb speed and could get 32mb if I changed to Fibre Broadband. I am using Netgear DG834N router but wireless is not great.
Telephone master socket is on top floor where router is currently sitting. I want to know whether the BT home hub3 or the plusnet WNR1000 router is better in older houses where walls are thicker?

Is it possible to connect close to master telephone socket and then run a longer lead so that router can be on the floor below of even better 2 floors below or does this affect connectivitiy and speed?

Netgear router DG834N
ISP Plusnet user

Netgear router DG834N
ISP Plusnet user
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 06-Jan-12 18:43:20
Print Post

Re: Fibre Broadband which isp BT or Plusnet?


[re: purpledoodle] [link to this post]
 
The FTTC modem needs to be near the master socket, or the engineer installing it can also supply and fit a Data Extension Cable to site it up to 30 metres away. So you could have the modem pretty well wherever you want.

Alternatives are:-

1) The feed from the modem to the router is pure ethernet, which is OK up to 100 metres. So you could run an ethernet cable to wherever you want;

2) Run CAT5 cable from by the master socket by your preferred route, (as the engineer may not have a lot of spare time to route it in the ideal way if he has to install the Data Extension cable), and he should be happy to wire that up instead, with the modem at your end;

3) There's a slight chance he could be persuaded to move the master socket;

4) Powerline plugs like these or similar. They give you ethernet over the mains wiring;

5) Have the modem and router near the master socket and run a shorter ethernet cable from the router to somewhere where a Wireless Access Point gives adequate additional coverage.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User purpledoodle
(newbie) Fri 06-Jan-12 23:15:42
Print Post

Re: Fibre Broadband which isp BT or Plusnet?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
The FTTC modem needs to be near the master socket, or the engineer installing it can also supply and fit a Data Extension Cable to site it up to 30 metres away. So you could have the modem pretty well wherever you want.

Alternatives are:-

1) The feed from the modem to the router is pure ethernet, which is OK up to 100 metres. So you could run an ethernet cable to wherever you want;

2) Run CAT5 cable from by the master socket by your preferred route, (as the engineer may not have a lot of spare time to route it in the ideal way if he has to install the Data Extension cable), and he should be happy to wire that up instead, with the modem at your end;

3) There's a slight chance he could be persuaded to move the master socket;

4) Powerline plugs like these or similar. They give you ethernet over the mains wiring;

5) Have the modem and router near the master socket and run a shorter ethernet cable from the router to somewhere where a Wireless Access Point gives adequate additional coverage.


Thanks for great ideas. What is the difference between a CAT5 cable and an date extension. Do I need to alert my isp I may need this extra cabling? I actually have the devolo pass through plugs but some of them have not been doing a great job recently not really sure why as I have them plugged into the wall and not extensions. I have 5 plugs and some connect to each other better than others - weird. Have you found any difference?

Netgear router DG834N
ISP Plusnet user


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 07-Jan-12 00:04:03
Print Post

Re: Fibre Broadband which isp BT or Plusnet?


[re: purpledoodle] [link to this post]
 
I don't know exactly what cable is used for the Data extension kit, but I do know normal BT spec extension cable isn't suitable, (CW1308 I think), but CAT5 is acceptable. There have been several posters here with self-fitted extensions using CAT5 and the engineers have happily moved the master to the extension point using it, with some of them also turning the existing master into an extension by using another pair or two. (There's only one pair needed for the connection, but one wire from another pair is likely to be used for the ring wire, which is usually redundant).

Homeplugs of any make can apparently fail - I don't have any as wireless is fine for me here - there have been several users saying so but others not reporting any trouble. I gather anything under 200Mps ones are unlikely to be able to cope with highish FTTC speeds, and someone recently got 500Mbps ones as expecting to get well over the 40Mbps once 80Mbps is available.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User voetsek
(regular) Sat 07-Jan-12 07:31:56
Print Post

Re: Fibre Broadband which isp BT or Plusnet?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi i use flat cat cable. ebay link here cheap works well and takes up less space.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p...
Standard User purpledoodle
(newbie) Sat 07-Jan-12 15:53:02
Print Post

Re: Fibre Broadband which isp BT or Plusnet?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I don't know exactly what cable is used for the Data extension kit, but I do know normal BT spec extension cable isn't suitable, (CW1308 I think), but CAT5 is acceptable. There have been several posters here with self-fitted extensions using CAT5 and the engineers have happily moved the master to the extension point using it, with some of them also turning the existing master into an extension by using another pair or two. (There's only one pair needed for the connection, but one wire from another pair is likely to be used for the ring wire, which is usually redundant).

Homeplugs of any make can apparently fail - I don't have any as wireless is fine for me here - there have been several users saying so but others not reporting any trouble. I gather anything under 200Mps ones are unlikely to be able to cope with highish FTTC speeds, and someone recently got 500Mbps ones as expecting to get well over the 40Mbps once 80Mbps is available.


Clarify please what you mean by extension using flat CAT5 cabling. I am new to all this!
Do you mean using CAT5 cabling from master telephone socket and say using 30 m of it to make it possible to have a router say in the centre of a property or is that what a data extension does or is this cabling behind the plug and inside the walls? and needs an electrician to sort it out?

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 07-Jan-12 17:15:52
Print Post

Re: Fibre Broadband which isp BT or Plusnet?


[re: purpledoodle] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by purpledoodle:
Clarify please what you mean by extension using flat CAT5 cabling. I am new to all this!
Do you mean using CAT5 cabling from master telephone socket and say using 30 m of it to make it possible to have a router say in the centre of a property or is that what a data extension does or is this cabling behind the plug and inside the walls? and needs an electrician to sort it out?
Getting me confused now smile.

Yes - a run of made up (pre-assembled) ethernet CAT5, (I didn't say "flat" as in my day it wasn't smile), will let you have the router in the centre of a property. One end would plug into the modem and the other end in to the router

The data extension cable is to allow the modem to be put in the centre of the house. The router would then usually connect to it with a normal short ethernet cable.

What I was saying about putting in a cable yourself beforehand is if you are a neat worker you could perhaps route it in a less noticeable way than an engineer would have time to do with the data extension cable. Or maybe you would like the modem out of the way. The BT engineers generally do a good neat job, but there could be ways you could do a better one in terms of hiding it as you have more time.

The engineer could use the cable you install either as above - with the router and modem at opposite ends, or he may be willing to wire it into the back of the existing master, turn that into an extension socket, and resite the master to the central position.

I think it beyond you, me or even an electrician to route new cable inside the walls without ending up needing some plasterwork and redecoration. Doesn't seem a good idea unless you are already planning that sort of thing. You, me and the BT engineer can of course drill through a wall to get the cable from one room or floor to the adjacent one. As long as you avoid electricity cables and water/gas pipes!

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User purpledoodle
(newbie) Sat 07-Jan-12 18:09:30
Print Post

Re: Fibre Broadband which isp BT or Plusnet?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by purpledoodle:
Clarify please what you mean by extension using flat CAT5 cabling. I am new to all this!
Do you mean using CAT5 cabling from master telephone socket and say using 30 m of it to make it possible to have a router say in the centre of a property or is that what a data extension does or is this cabling behind the plug and inside the walls? and needs an electrician to sort it out?
Getting me confused now smile.

Yes - a run of made up (pre-assembled) ethernet CAT5, (I didn't say "flat" as in my day it wasn't smile), will let you have the router in the centre of a property. One end would plug into the modem and the other end in to the router

The data extension cable is to allow the modem to be put in the centre of the house. The router would then usually connect to it with a normal short ethernet cable.

What I was saying about putting in a cable yourself beforehand is if you are a neat worker you could perhaps route it in a less noticeable way than an engineer would have time to do with the data extension cable. Or maybe you would like the modem out of the way. The BT engineers generally do a good neat job, but there could be ways you could do a better one in terms of hiding it as you have more time.

The engineer could use the cable you install either as above - with the router and modem at opposite ends, or he may be willing to wire it into the back of the existing master, turn that into an extension socket, and resite the master to the central position.

I think it beyond you, me or even an electrician to route new cable inside the walls without ending up needing some plasterwork and redecoration. Doesn't seem a good idea unless you are already planning that sort of thing. You, me and the BT engineer can of course drill through a wall to get the cable from one room or floor to the adjacent one. As long as you avoid electricity cables and water/gas pipes!


Okay so would the best idea be to keep modem near master socket and have router in centre of house to keep best speed. Sorry I know I'm being thick but I'm trying to work out what to do with 3 floors. Also noticed in Plusnet forun that people were reccommending to go with own modem. Some suggested using Billion modems - are they good and do they have one for running fibre broadband efficiently?

Went on your website really great help with lots of info. Thanks for putting it up there for newbies like me. Really needed.

Standard User dustofnations
(member) Sat 07-Jan-12 18:22:49
Print Post

Re: Fibre Broadband which isp BT or Plusnet?


[re: purpledoodle] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by purpledoodle:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by purpledoodle:
Clarify please what you mean by extension using flat CAT5 cabling. I am new to all this!
Do you mean using CAT5 cabling from master telephone socket and say using 30 m of it to make it possible to have a router say in the centre of a property or is that what a data extension does or is this cabling behind the plug and inside the walls? and needs an electrician to sort it out?
Getting me confused now smile.

Yes - a run of made up (pre-assembled) ethernet CAT5, (I didn't say "flat" as in my day it wasn't smile), will let you have the router in the centre of a property. One end would plug into the modem and the other end in to the router

The data extension cable is to allow the modem to be put in the centre of the house. The router would then usually connect to it with a normal short ethernet cable.

What I was saying about putting in a cable yourself beforehand is if you are a neat worker you could perhaps route it in a less noticeable way than an engineer would have time to do with the data extension cable. Or maybe you would like the modem out of the way. The BT engineers generally do a good neat job, but there could be ways you could do a better one in terms of hiding it as you have more time.

The engineer could use the cable you install either as above - with the router and modem at opposite ends, or he may be willing to wire it into the back of the existing master, turn that into an extension socket, and resite the master to the central position.

I think it beyond you, me or even an electrician to route new cable inside the walls without ending up needing some plasterwork and redecoration. Doesn't seem a good idea unless you are already planning that sort of thing. You, me and the BT engineer can of course drill through a wall to get the cable from one room or floor to the adjacent one. As long as you avoid electricity cables and water/gas pipes!


Okay so would the best idea be to keep modem near master socket and have router in centre of house to keep best speed. Sorry I know I'm being thick but I'm trying to work out what to do with 3 floors. Also noticed in Plusnet forun that people were reccommending to go with own modem. Some suggested using Billion modems - are they good and do they have one for running fibre broadband efficiently?

Went on your website really great help with lots of info. Thanks for putting it up there for newbies like me. Really needed.


They are possibly [probably] talking about replacing the provided *router* with their own, rather than replacing the OR *modem*. You plug the router into the modem.

The router doesn't care what sort of broadband you're using, as long as it isn't too fast to handle (which it won't be for any decent modern router).

With regards to getting it up 3 floors, it really depends on what you're willing to do. It is usually best to have a wired backbone rather than using wireless distribution (WDS etc). For instance, run cat6 cable up your existing wiring ducts between the floors to create a wired access point on each level, then have a wireless access point on each floor (using different frequencies).

Edited by dustofnations (Sat 07-Jan-12 18:24:02)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 07-Jan-12 23:04:57
Print Post

Re: Fibre Broadband which isp BT or Plusnet?


[re: purpledoodle] [link to this post]
 
What dustofnations says makes sense, but perhaps a bit advanced for what you need. Ignore whatever it is you have read about Billion in the Plusnet forum. Without knowing just which posts you mean I can't be sure, but I think you are talking about the router, not the modem.

Replacing the modem with an all-in-one box is for geeks. The Openreach supplied modem is part of the installation and part of any performance guarantee that there is. In your case, don't mess!

Stick with the standard stuff for now if you are going with either BT or PN. I think really, from all we have discussed and the other contributions in both threads, that your safest course of action is to have the engineer install the Data Extension cable and have the modem and router in the centre or wherever. Just work out beforehand the route you would like the cable to go, (he should be happy to drill through a wall if necessary), and where you would like him to put the socket for the modem.

Remember you need two power sockets, one for the modem and one for the router.

Check with BT or PN whether the data extension cable is still installed free if required. There was talk about it becoming chargeable. Even if it is chargeable, as long as it isn't a silly price I think it is what you should do.

As long as the correct spec cable is used and the connections are properly made it will not make any difference to the speed wired or wireless from the router - that's assuming the router is brought to a sensible place rather than left upstairs.

What I'm saying there is it doesn't matter for speed reaching the router whether the modem is upstairs, on downstairs near it. As long as the job is done correctly.

The choice between getting the data extension cable put in by the engineer, so that both are downstairs, or putting in a long ethernet (CAT5 or CAT6) cable yourself, either before or after the installation, so that the modem can be upstairs and the router downstairs, is entirely a matter of choice by you. The speed at the router from outside will be the same. I think you should forget the idea about installing cable yourself for the engineer to use instead of the data extension cable to bring the modem downstairs.

I've just thought!

Don't forget that because there are two boxes instead of your current one, you can try what the wireless from the new router is like and perhaps have no wire to downstairs if it is OK. If it isn't OK there is nothing to stop you getting a long ethernet cable later so the modem stays upstairs and the router can be downstairs. What you won't be able to do later though is bring the modem downstairs as well. Only the installation engineer can do that, as if you want it done later it will be expensive.

So to repeat what I said earlier in this post, in your case I recommend you get the engineer to install the data extension cable. Have both boxes downstairs.

But! If you have 5 devolos, what the heck is connected and where? Is any location for the router going to be satisfactory without either devolos or a WAP, perhaps on a devolo?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to