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  >> Which ISP? (Residential)


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Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 08:52:35
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: bobble_bob] [link to this post]
 
They seem to think 1 illegal download = 1 lost sale. In reality the person downloading the music/film would more than likely not buy it anyway

What a bizarre statement ?

I'm not going to buy a BMW, but according to your logic, it would be acceptable for me to go and steal one ??

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 22-Feb-17 09:32:34
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Hi

I understand what they mean.

If you steal a BMW then someone else loses out, you have physically taken something from someone else, caused them misery, worry, expense on their insurance etc.

Downloading a pirated film or music isn't taking it from anyone, it's a copy, often not a very good one. It's not like someone else in the world has woken up to find missing films from their Blu-ray collection.

We had all this about cassettes killing the music industry, videos killing the film industry, then downloads and streaming sites doing the same thing, it hasn't happened, all that has happened is revenues have gone up and block buster movies continually break records for ticket sales and so on.

Piracy isn't black and white, for example whilst Sony was complaining about people copying CDs, who contributed to the invention of CD-R and sold hardware and the blank media to allow it to happen? Whilst piracy is often discussed in terms of who is losing out, often there are many companies profiting from it, sometimes the same company or division of!

I'm not advocating piracy, but you can't compare it to stealing someone's physical property, it's not the same thing.

Regards

Phil
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Feb-17 09:45:42
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
If you find a wallet or purse on the street, what do you do? The person it belongs to has already lost it, so you aren't "stealing it". The money in it still isn't yours, any more than the fractional amount that a purchaser of the film has contributed to your pirated copy is yours to benefit from. The principle is identical. The morality is the same.

If you want something enough to pirate-obtain it, then save up if you have to, and buy it. If you don't need to save up and would either not notice the cost, or merely need to cut back by one pint a couple of nights, then do that.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 22-Feb-17 09:46:42)


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Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 09:53:25
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
I agree with what Bob says ...... and add, that whilst musicians want you to hear their music, they are also keen to make a living from it, as is the film industry.

The original post implied that if people didn't like stuff enough to actually pay something for it, that justified its theft ..... utter [censored].

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:13:54
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi

It isn't that black and white. For a start if you find a wallet that is someones physical property still, its not the same thing, it's a silly analogy.

Have you ever gone around to a friends house and watched a movie because they had it and you didn't, you wanted to watch it but wasn't so keen to that you wanted to fork out for the film yourself? What about borrowing a movie from a friend or going around their house to listen to some music with them? What about having a meal with some friends and being so impressed with the food they copied out the recipe for you from the book? All of this is technically piracy, it's enjoying something you haven't paid for yourself.

So all the above is the same thing, the morality is the same, yet are you saying you've never done these things?

It isn't black and white is all I'm saying, and I think everyone is guilty of some form of piracy, but as humans we are good at justify things to ourselves, and in the same way we ignore the fact that we've not paid Mary Berry for taking a quick picture on our phone of that tasty cup-cake recipe from a friends book, (how does she lose out by that?) and see little wrong with it, a whole usually younger generation don't see the harm of downloading music they haven't paid for.

Like I say, it isn't black and white, and you can't compare it to stealing someones property.

Regards

Phil
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:17:14
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Hi

The technology we are discussing here that allows piracy in this form, has also allowed hundreds of thousands of musicians to get their work out there on various platforms, and to make money from it, without the music companies that are so loudly complaining taking a large amount of commission from them.

Some progressive musicians positively allow and promote the sharing of their material in this way.

It isn't black and white that is all I'm saying.

Regards

Phil
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:24:47
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
I completely agree that it isn't black and white.
Have you ever gone around to a friends house and watched a movie because they had it and you didn't, you wanted to watch it but wasn't so keen to that you wanted to fork out for the film yourself?

Of course, but in this scenario the friend had purchased it, I only viewed it, I didn't then rip a copy of it.
What about having a meal with some friends and being so impressed with the food they copied out the recipe for you from the book? All of this is technically piracy, it's enjoying something you haven't paid for yourself.

Bad example .... copying the recipe doesn't mean I can then make am exact copy of it, it's more like me trying to play you a song I heard on the radio using my guitar .... it's an homage to, not a direct copy.

So yes, it's a grey area but in my opinion ....

"In general I think piracy is overstated by the music and film industry anyway. They seem to think 1 illegal download = 1 lost sale. In reality the person downloading the music/film would more than likely not buy it anyway"

... is wholly wrong.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:26:12
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
It isn't black and white that is all I'm saying.

And with that statement I completely agree.

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:42:02
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In general I think piracy is overstated by the music and film industry anyway. They seem to think 1 illegal download = 1 lost sale. In reality the person downloading the music/film would more than likely not buy it anyway


... is wholly wrong.


It's not wrong at all, it's true. It might be the case that 100% of all downloads have never resulted in a lost sale, but the vast majority haven't caused a lost a sale, and conversely, a lot of illegal downloads have got people interested enough in a particular band to then go out and buy the music or watch them live.

For example my nephew gets hold of a lot of "pirated" music as most youngsters do these days and discards most of it, some of it is listened to for a bit until out of favour, and other stuff he goes and buys and follows the bands. He wouldn't have the funds to buy all of it if there was no other way to obtain it, so therefore it is true, if he couldn't have got hold of it "pirated" he never would have bought it, therefore 1 illegal download doesn't equal 1 lost sale, and that will hold true for the vast majority of people downloading this stuff.

Regards

Phil
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:47:19
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
If you find a wallet or purse on the street, what do you do? The person it belongs to has already lost it, so you aren't "stealing it". The money in it still isn't yours, any more than the fractional amount that a purchaser of the film has contributed to your pirated copy is yours to benefit from. The principle is identical. The morality is the same.

If you want something enough to pirate-obtain it, then save up if you have to, and buy it. If you don't need to save up and would either not notice the cost, or merely need to cut back by one pint a couple of nights, then do that.
I have never bought a movie and never will , i don't pirate them either

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 22-Feb-17 10:48:03)

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