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Standard User jacko0
(learned) Mon 06-Feb-17 20:15:38
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Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[link to this post]
 
Does anyone know why small ISPs don't have to block websites e.g. thepiratebay.org

Seems a bit weird, don't get me wrong I think the internet should not be censored, but how do they get away with it?
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 06-Feb-17 20:49:02
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: jacko0] [link to this post]
 
Because they're not mentioned in the court order. Only BT, Sky, Everything Everywhere, TalkTalk, O2 and Virgin Media must all prevent their users from accessing the site.
Standard User professor973
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Feb-17 22:50:22
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Waste of time anyway. Something like Opera with free built in VPN bypasses filtering.


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Standard User 23Prince
(experienced) Tue 07-Feb-17 10:14:31
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by professor973:
Waste of time anyway. Something like Opera with free built in VPN bypasses filtering.


I used Epic browser which does that too - They are hell bent on privacy protection.

Talk Talk Business only blocks if it you tell it too - with worksafe off it allows it
Standard User farnz
(member) Tue 07-Feb-17 11:14:11
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: jacko0] [link to this post]
 
The surface reason is that the court order doesn't mention them, so they're not affected.

There's a couple of reasons for that, however;

1. They're small - if you cut off access to a website for 90% of UK Internet users, then it's effectively gone, especially since small ISPs are far more likely to attract the type of user who's aware of VPN services that bypass blocks.

2. The general rule for blocking orders so far has been that ISPs are entitled to reasonable compensation for the incremental costs of the extra blocking. For the big ISPs, who all have Cleanfeed-style systems set up to handle these sites in volume for IWF content, the incremental costs are tiny; for those small ISPs who don't yet have a blocking system in place at all, the incremental costs are high (an entire blocking system).

That second point makes going for small ISPs high risk - the basis for the blocks is that they're far cheaper than the damage done to the rightsholders by the third party infringers - ergo, a block is reasonable. If rightsholders then balk at the cost of a block, the ISPs' argument that a block is unreasonably expensive compared to the losses it prevents is strengthened, which the rightsholders don't want - that would permit ISPs to recover part of the costs of their Cleanfeed type systems from rightsholders using them to handle civil infringement instead of criminal activity. Combine that with the first point (you've already got 90%+ of the market covered, and a significant fraction of the small ISP customer base knows how to bypass the blocks anyway), and it's not a risk worth taking, yet.
Standard User 23Prince
(experienced) Tue 07-Feb-17 11:50:35
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: jacko0] [link to this post]
 
Have a look through some of these guys videos.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnHLWB74zulLndGfFKI...

Adrian Kennard, also know as RevK on their IRC chat is the Founder of AAISP - he's got many videos on the snooping charter, on the blocking and censorship and other stuff like Encryption.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 09-Feb-17 05:18:45
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: jacko0] [link to this post]
 
The root cause is that the copyright holders did not take the small ISPs to court, only the major ones. As a result they could only ask for a Court Order against the ones named in their plaint.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 20-Feb-17 09:10:54
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: jacko0] [link to this post]
 
as the others said its a numbers game.

Block BT, sky, talktalk, VM and EE, thats basically the vast majority of the UK covered.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Mon 20-Feb-17 11:16:06
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: jacko0] [link to this post]
 
The big pandering ISP's seem to have voluntarily signed up to this, Get It Right from a Genuine Site
Sky customers have 20 days to STOP using torrents

Edited by tommy45 (Mon 20-Feb-17 11:36:37)

Standard User bobble_bob
(knowledge is power) Mon 20-Feb-17 11:32:29
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
The email cautions subscribers they have 20 days to stop downloading copyrighted material using peer-to-peer websites.

Should your Internet service provider detect more illegal activity from your IP address during the 20 day grace period another educational email from the Get It Right campaign will be sent.


So nothing happens after 20 days really does it?

In general I think piracy is overstated by the music and film industry anyway. They seem to think 1 illegal download = 1 lost sale. In reality the person downloading the music/film would more than likely not buy it anyway
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 08:52:35
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: bobble_bob] [link to this post]
 
They seem to think 1 illegal download = 1 lost sale. In reality the person downloading the music/film would more than likely not buy it anyway

What a bizarre statement ?

I'm not going to buy a BMW, but according to your logic, it would be acceptable for me to go and steal one ??

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 22-Feb-17 09:32:34
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Hi

I understand what they mean.

If you steal a BMW then someone else loses out, you have physically taken something from someone else, caused them misery, worry, expense on their insurance etc.

Downloading a pirated film or music isn't taking it from anyone, it's a copy, often not a very good one. It's not like someone else in the world has woken up to find missing films from their Blu-ray collection.

We had all this about cassettes killing the music industry, videos killing the film industry, then downloads and streaming sites doing the same thing, it hasn't happened, all that has happened is revenues have gone up and block buster movies continually break records for ticket sales and so on.

Piracy isn't black and white, for example whilst Sony was complaining about people copying CDs, who contributed to the invention of CD-R and sold hardware and the blank media to allow it to happen? Whilst piracy is often discussed in terms of who is losing out, often there are many companies profiting from it, sometimes the same company or division of!

I'm not advocating piracy, but you can't compare it to stealing someone's physical property, it's not the same thing.

Regards

Phil
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Feb-17 09:45:42
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
If you find a wallet or purse on the street, what do you do? The person it belongs to has already lost it, so you aren't "stealing it". The money in it still isn't yours, any more than the fractional amount that a purchaser of the film has contributed to your pirated copy is yours to benefit from. The principle is identical. The morality is the same.

If you want something enough to pirate-obtain it, then save up if you have to, and buy it. If you don't need to save up and would either not notice the cost, or merely need to cut back by one pint a couple of nights, then do that.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 22-Feb-17 09:46:42)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 09:53:25
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
I agree with what Bob says ...... and add, that whilst musicians want you to hear their music, they are also keen to make a living from it, as is the film industry.

The original post implied that if people didn't like stuff enough to actually pay something for it, that justified its theft ..... utter [censored].

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:13:54
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi

It isn't that black and white. For a start if you find a wallet that is someones physical property still, its not the same thing, it's a silly analogy.

Have you ever gone around to a friends house and watched a movie because they had it and you didn't, you wanted to watch it but wasn't so keen to that you wanted to fork out for the film yourself? What about borrowing a movie from a friend or going around their house to listen to some music with them? What about having a meal with some friends and being so impressed with the food they copied out the recipe for you from the book? All of this is technically piracy, it's enjoying something you haven't paid for yourself.

So all the above is the same thing, the morality is the same, yet are you saying you've never done these things?

It isn't black and white is all I'm saying, and I think everyone is guilty of some form of piracy, but as humans we are good at justify things to ourselves, and in the same way we ignore the fact that we've not paid Mary Berry for taking a quick picture on our phone of that tasty cup-cake recipe from a friends book, (how does she lose out by that?) and see little wrong with it, a whole usually younger generation don't see the harm of downloading music they haven't paid for.

Like I say, it isn't black and white, and you can't compare it to stealing someones property.

Regards

Phil
Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:17:14
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Hi

The technology we are discussing here that allows piracy in this form, has also allowed hundreds of thousands of musicians to get their work out there on various platforms, and to make money from it, without the music companies that are so loudly complaining taking a large amount of commission from them.

Some progressive musicians positively allow and promote the sharing of their material in this way.

It isn't black and white that is all I'm saying.

Regards

Phil
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:24:47
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
I completely agree that it isn't black and white.
Have you ever gone around to a friends house and watched a movie because they had it and you didn't, you wanted to watch it but wasn't so keen to that you wanted to fork out for the film yourself?

Of course, but in this scenario the friend had purchased it, I only viewed it, I didn't then rip a copy of it.
What about having a meal with some friends and being so impressed with the food they copied out the recipe for you from the book? All of this is technically piracy, it's enjoying something you haven't paid for yourself.

Bad example .... copying the recipe doesn't mean I can then make am exact copy of it, it's more like me trying to play you a song I heard on the radio using my guitar .... it's an homage to, not a direct copy.

So yes, it's a grey area but in my opinion ....

"In general I think piracy is overstated by the music and film industry anyway. They seem to think 1 illegal download = 1 lost sale. In reality the person downloading the music/film would more than likely not buy it anyway"

... is wholly wrong.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:26:12
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
It isn't black and white that is all I'm saying.

And with that statement I completely agree.

Standard User PhilipD
(experienced) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:42:02
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In general I think piracy is overstated by the music and film industry anyway. They seem to think 1 illegal download = 1 lost sale. In reality the person downloading the music/film would more than likely not buy it anyway


... is wholly wrong.


It's not wrong at all, it's true. It might be the case that 100% of all downloads have never resulted in a lost sale, but the vast majority haven't caused a lost a sale, and conversely, a lot of illegal downloads have got people interested enough in a particular band to then go out and buy the music or watch them live.

For example my nephew gets hold of a lot of "pirated" music as most youngsters do these days and discards most of it, some of it is listened to for a bit until out of favour, and other stuff he goes and buys and follows the bands. He wouldn't have the funds to buy all of it if there was no other way to obtain it, so therefore it is true, if he couldn't have got hold of it "pirated" he never would have bought it, therefore 1 illegal download doesn't equal 1 lost sale, and that will hold true for the vast majority of people downloading this stuff.

Regards

Phil
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:47:19
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
If you find a wallet or purse on the street, what do you do? The person it belongs to has already lost it, so you aren't "stealing it". The money in it still isn't yours, any more than the fractional amount that a purchaser of the film has contributed to your pirated copy is yours to benefit from. The principle is identical. The morality is the same.

If you want something enough to pirate-obtain it, then save up if you have to, and buy it. If you don't need to save up and would either not notice the cost, or merely need to cut back by one pint a couple of nights, then do that.
I have never bought a movie and never will , i don't pirate them either

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 22-Feb-17 10:48:03)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 10:55:42
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
I have never bought a movie and never will , i don't pirate them either

So rather than being enigmatic, explain how your technique works.

Standard User baby_frogmella
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 22-Feb-17 11:04:19
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
It isn't black and white is all I'm saying, and I think everyone is guilty of some form of piracy, but as humans we are good at justify things to ourselves, and in the same way we ignore the fact that we've not paid Mary Berry for taking a quick picture on our phone of that tasty cup-cake recipe from a friends book, (how does she lose out by that?) and see little wrong with it, a whole usually younger generation don't see the harm of downloading music they haven't paid for.


So using the same logic, I should ask my local cinema to allow me to watch films at off-peak times free of charge? They're going to show the films anyway so they will suffer absolutely no loss by not charging me at quiet times, provided I don't leave any litter behind, pee on the seats or stub cigs out on the carpet. Thanks for the tip!

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
TalkTalk Business 80/20
Netgear R9000 X10 running OpenWRT
My Broadband Quality Monitor
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 22-Feb-17 11:10:28)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 11:33:53
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Nah, they don't have to allow you. All you need to do is sneak in when they aren't looking - and whether it is peak or off peak is irrelevant as long as there is a spare seat. After all, they aren't losing anything because you wouldn't have paid anyway...

Personally if I am not willing to pay for something then I likely would value my time above the thing as well. If I like a film enough to spend my time watching it then I will do so legally - streaming service (Netflix, Amazon, etc), DVD/BluRay, cinema, etc. To say a film is not worth enough to pay for it but worth enough to spend time watching it does not compute in my world.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Feb-17 11:37:22
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Hi

It isn't that black and white. For a start if you find a wallet that is someones physical property still, its not the same thing, it's a silly analogy.
An extreme analogy, but not silly. Unless someone picks it up and either finds an (oviously the owner's) contact number or address inside it and lets them know, or alternatively takes it to the police, then the owner has lost it permanently. SO you do no harm by being the one of possibly many who simplay take it and enjoy.
Have you ever gone around to a friends house and watched a movie because they had it and you didn't, you wanted to watch it but wasn't so keen to that you wanted to fork out for the film yourself
No.
What about borrowing a movie from a friend or going around their house to listen to some music with them?
The first, no, but see no problem. The second, even less problem. Those are the silly analogies, and no copyright holder would dream of worrying about them.
What about having a meal with some friends and being so impressed with the food they copied out the recipe for you from the book?
One recipe. They could even give you the book. If you want twenty recipes they might suggest you buy a copy, or they might buy you one for Christmas. Another silly analogy.
... a whole usually younger generation don't see the harm of downloading music they haven't paid for.
That is the problem. If it is copyrighted and issued advert-free by a publishing house, the performer will receive royalties for each sale. Copied onto the internet and pirated they wont. Both the performers and the publishing house, at the limits, will go bankrupt. At best just give up. Where does that leave the whole generation of growing older kids?

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 11:38:24
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Personally if I am not willing to pay for something then I likely would value my time above the thing as well. If I like a film enough to spend my time watching it then I will do so legally - streaming service (Netflix, Amazon, etc), DVD/BluRay, cinema, etc. To say a film is not worth enough to pay for it but worth enough to spend time watching it does not compute in my world.

There ya go, someone else has the skills to make my point far more succinctly than I. Thank you Ian.

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Feb-17 11:43:38
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: PhilipD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilipD:
Hi

The technology we are discussing here that allows piracy in this form, has also allowed hundreds of thousands of musicians to get their work out there on various platforms, and to make money from it, without the music companies that are so loudly complaining taking a large amount of commission from them.

Some progressive musicians positively allow and promote the sharing of their material in this way.
That is a completely different and now normal business model.

Covering self-promotion by freebies, which is merely a form of advertising that does cost them because they have provided something free just like a conventional advertiser, and also publication of the material on their own site which carries miscellaneous click-bait adverts for other things.

They do not do this for nothing. They do it to make money. You rip the music off that and upload it to a pirate site, or to your own advert-carrying site which becomes well-known for multi-artist freebies, and they stop making their living. Simples. Piracy can be applied to individual performers taking this route, just as it can to publishing houses.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 11:58:56
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
You're welcome wink I get where you are coming from and fully agree.
Standard User bobble_bob
(knowledge is power) Wed 22-Feb-17 12:57:23
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I didnt mean it like that. What i meant was people download an album do so because they have no intention of paying for it. So if there was no illegal way to download they would do without

Im not justifiying it but people illegally download things they have no intention of paying for in the first place
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 15:15:10
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: bobble_bob] [link to this post]
 
I'm sorry but that is the same argument as stealing something physical. If I have no intention of paying for a CD in the local store then I just steal it? I know you argue that in the case of pirating nothing physical is stolen but why does that make any difference with that justification?

And how does it answer the fact that if it isn't worth paying for then surely it is not worth having? Or is it just that people think the price being charged is too high? In which case that price would be lower if everyone paid for what they used. That is a cyclical argument.

In the end someone's time went in to making the thing even if it isn't physical. If you consume it then you should be willing to pay for that person's time. If you aren't willing to pay then don't consume it.

PS - When I say "you" it is the proverbial you just aimed your way because you are the one putting forward the argument.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Feb-17 15:48:05
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
In the end someone's time went in to making the thing even if it isn't physical. If one consumes it then one should be willing to pay for that person's time. If one isn't willing to pay then don't consume it.

PS - When I say "you" it is the proverbial you just aimed your way because you are the one putting forward the argument.
Fixed that for you smile. The virtually complete removal from the language of that construct is definitely not a beneficial evolvement pf the language. It should be normal usage, not effectively banned as elitist.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User bobble_bob
(knowledge is power) Wed 22-Feb-17 15:52:59
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Dont get me wrong piracy is wrong, im not trying to justify it. What im saying is the argument the film/music industry use about piracy is inaccurate

If 1 million users illegal download x album, do you think those 1 million users would purchase that album if illegally downloading wasnt an option? No they wouldn't. Some would, some would just miss out. The music/film industry argue that 1 million illegal downloads means 1 million legitimate sales lost, which isnt the case.

Again I'm not saying illegal downloading is right, far from it but the music and film industry are out of touch with the impact of it
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 16:09:21
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: bobble_bob] [link to this post]
 
To be honest it is an argument that doesn't work for either side.

For the film industry it is not necessarily a lost sale

However, that isn't a justification for the pirate's to do it.

So, from both sides perspective it is an invalid argument. What is clear to me is that pirating results in some lost sales. Whether that is 10%, 50% or 80% of pirated material is a lost sale is largely irrelevant - it is still losses and what you can't do is just stop those that would have otherwise been a sale - so you either stop everything and punish or you accept that people will pirate and then the people who do pay have to pay more to cover that percentage of lost sales.
Standard User bobble_bob
(knowledge is power) Wed 22-Feb-17 16:36:33
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
I dont think fighting piracy though threatening to cut people off is the answer either. You cant beat it. Close 1 site down, 10 more pop up. ISPs dont want to cut customers off as they pay for their connection, and warning emails are pointless.

You have to take the stance of the music industry and offer cheaper alternatives. Used to be £15 to buy an artists album, but now you can get a subscription for less than that to Spotify a month for unlimited albums. Film industry is starting to do that with Netflix and stuff
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 17:04:52
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: bobble_bob] [link to this post]
 
You cant beat it.

To me that is no excuse.

Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 22-Feb-17 17:42:02
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
I have never bought a movie and never will , i don't pirate them either

So rather than being enigmatic, explain how your technique works.
Kodie and other streaming sources. or watch on terrestrial TV

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 22-Feb-17 17:45:51)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 22-Feb-17 18:15:36
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Thank you.

Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 23-Feb-17 11:37:51
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Kodi IS pirating the movies that are streamed!!!

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User lee111s
(experienced) Thu 23-Feb-17 13:26:27
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Except you're not keeping a copy, so the law disagrees.

The illegal bit is those distributing the media. Not those consuming it.

Thay doesn't make it morally OK though.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Thu 23-Feb-17 15:24:17
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
Kodi IS pirating the movies that are streamed!!!
Kodi isn't breaking any copyrights
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 23-Feb-17 15:35:27
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
No, they aren't - Kodi is a media player and therefore not responsible. The people in breach are those that are doing the actual sharing/distribution.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 24-Feb-17 11:19:39
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
But you are watching a film that you haven't paid for.

The law might state that because it is only on the "viewers" computer temporarily then the viewer is not breaking the law. So what. People like you are fuelling the demand for law breakers to supply the illegal stuff.

Some suppliers of Kodi boxes with pre-installed software, and more importantly the app to support the watching of films, have been taken to court and fined.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Fri 24-Feb-17 11:39:47
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
But you are watching a film that you haven't paid for.

The law might state that because it is only on the "viewers" computer temporarily then the viewer is not breaking the law. So what. People like you are fuelling the demand for law breakers to supply the illegal stuff.

Some suppliers of Kodi boxes with pre-installed software, and more importantly the app to support the watching of films, have been taken to court and fined.
I use the kodi app on pc, not set top box again kodi is 100% legit , as to which software you choose to install onto it, that's a different matter
And as for some of these overpaid, movie stars and so-called pop singers, i couldn't care less about funding their luxury lifestyles, in particular, those virtue signallers who also seek to undermine the democratic will of the people of this country And i care even less about the greedy film and music industry and the corrupt politicians that have aided them

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 24-Feb-17 11:42:24)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 24-Feb-17 12:55:34
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Do you watch football? Possibly even pay for it?

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
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Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 25-Feb-17 13:45:43
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
"those virtue signallers"

Is that English?

But you obviously care about staying in this awful country with overpaid artistes and corrupt politicians.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
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Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sat 25-Feb-17 14:07:43
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Do you watch football? Possibly even pay for it?
no to both
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sat 25-Feb-17 14:13:10
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
"those virtue signallers"

Is that English?

But you obviously care about staying in this awful country with overpaid artistes and corrupt politicians.
most of whom don't even live here, those that do live in their secure gated communities, and in areas where the population is predominantly white, they are hypocrites given platforms by the purveyors of Fake news the controlled mainstream media BBC, Sky, and some of other sources, I watch virtually no TV these days

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 25-Feb-17 15:57:55)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sat 25-Feb-17 14:30:13
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
So have we established that Kodi is legal and streaming movies and football from Kodi is also legal?
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 25-Feb-17 19:46:52
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The problem I see it is like this.

Most markets will adapt to consumer behaviour so e.g. if weetabix sales tank., they lower their prices or introduce an offer, or ramp up advertising, they dont blame the consumer, they adapt to recover sales.

The movie and music industry works different, if the sales tank, then its not a problem with pricing or availability, the problem is the consumers and/or the law, they react by lobbying governments for law changes and adding extra copy protections to their products. In short they just dont get it and refuse to modernise their practices.

As part of their lobbying process they try to claim every illegal download is a lost sale and simply refuse to accept they may have to change their policies such as reducing prices, allowing people to make backups, allowing cross platform ownership so e.g. if buy the cd it allows you to stream it on any streaming service without paying again.

They also not helping themselves with staggered release dates and highly variable pricing depending on where you live, all this causes consumers to be hostile to their products and we have what we have today.

Even with all this in mind tho, good music and movies still make very handsome profits, suggesting piracy is not the reason some artists fail, but simply their product is not good enough.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 25-Feb-17 20:32:38
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
I broadly agree with what you are saying there. But of course it doesn't make copyright theft acceptable, financially or morally. In our day if you couldn't afford something, you went without, or went without something else and saved up.

It would almost be better if nothing was free on the internet. Even Wikipedia or Google. At least some sense of morality would be inculcated. Parents and the education systems world-wide seem to have given up. With large numbers of decent exceptions of course, possibly the (frustrated and unhappy) majority of people.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 25-Feb-17 21:19:01
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I know, this has came about because in its early years it was a problem that got ignored, they waited until it got too popular to try and do something about it.

There is also that downloading copyrighted material without the licence to view it is not illegal, its the distribution that's illegal, which in itself limits what can be done about it.

My view is tho that moving forward they should adapt, and also accept that piracy happens, another thing to add to what you said about pre internet years, I remember when I was a paperboy collecting papers from the video shop, the owner had several video copying machines running in the background making pirated movies to sell. Piracy has always been around, just in different ways. To reduce piracy to 0% is a unattainable target, and if they not careful they lose the ability to monitor it as it will just go more undergound like the old years.

All they need to do is try to kill the reasons for people to pirate instead of buying.

Reduce pricing.
Release worldwide at same date.
Make it available for online viewing same date as cinema and physical media.

Netflix had the right idea, but greed wrecked it, if netflix had every movie ever released for its 6.99 price it would absolutely murder piracy rates, but it isnt to be, movies keep been pulled because the copyight holders cannot get netflix to pay inflated costs, and the liks of sky movies want exclusivity meaning whats on sky movies cannot also be on netflix. Not to also mention the regional restrictions, e.g. a usa netflix account having 3x the content of a uk netflix account.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 25-Feb-17 21:47:19
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
The BBC is now making several programs available over the net prior to broadcast over terrestrial radio or TV. Which is going along those lines.

Which will make avoiding spoilers almost impossible.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 25-Feb-17 21:47:44)

Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sat 25-Feb-17 23:07:04
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
It would almost be better if nothing was free on the internet. Even Wikipedia or Google.
WOW no one in their right minds would pay to access google or wiki, not a chance, and if nothing was free on the internet, there would be no internet and isp's would be charging a hell of a lot more for access than they do now
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 25-Feb-17 23:45:50
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Like nobody goes on buses or trains, or buys cars because of road tax you mean?

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
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Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sun 26-Feb-17 00:59:17
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Like nobody goes on buses or trains, or buys cars because of road tax you mean?
no, i don't mean, and that isn't the same thing,
Standard User _Resonance_
(member) Sun 26-Feb-17 13:57:54
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
I'm sorry but that is the same argument as stealing something physical. If I have no intention of paying for a CD in the local store then I just steal it? I know you argue that in the case of pirating nothing physical is stolen but why does that make any difference with that justification?

And how does it answer the fact that if it isn't worth paying for then surely it is not worth having? Or is it just that people think the price being charged is too high? In which case that price would be lower if everyone paid for what they used. That is a cyclical argument.

In the end someone's time went in to making the thing even if it isn't physical. If you consume it then you should be willing to pay for that person's time. If you aren't willing to pay then don't consume it.

PS - When I say "you" it is the proverbial you just aimed your way because you are the one putting forward the argument.


Theft (stealing) = permanently depriving someone of something. Which is why pirating is not theft.

BT Infinity 2
Standard User professor973
(knowledge is power) Sun 26-Feb-17 14:05:30
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
Listening to, or watching anything that is freely streamed to the world online is breaking no laws and nothing physical is stolen. The same applies to software like replay music that automatically records and tags tracks. All verified in law. The same applies to sporting streams, those watching are breaking no law. The fact that in most cases people could not afford these services, or the thousands of tracks they may listen to, re enforces the argument of no loss.
Standard User professor973
(knowledge is power) Sun 26-Feb-17 14:07:30
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: _Resonance_] [link to this post]
 
Listening to, or watching anything that is freely streamed to the world online is breaking no laws and nothing physical is stolen. The same applies to software like replay music that automatically records and tags tracks. All verified in law. The same applies to sporting streams or me listening to Pandora music in the UK, those watching and listening are breaking no law. The fact that in most cases people could not afford or are geo-blocked from these services, or the thousands of tracks they may listen to, re enforces the argument of no loss.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 26-Feb-17 17:59:52
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
OMG we have President Trump on the forum.

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Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 26-Feb-17 18:02:14
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
Are you saying that the poor can do what they like as long as there is no actual loss?

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Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 26-Feb-17 18:08:25
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
"In our day if you couldn't afford something, you went without, or went without something else and saved up."

Good point, well made.

I hate paying the inflated price for CDs and DVDs and WAIT until they are a decent price in the supermarkets.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 26-Feb-17 18:09:18
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
He saying that Listening to, or watching anything that is freely streamed to the world online is breaking no laws and nothing physical is stolen
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 26-Feb-17 18:17:32
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Is it freely streamed if the watcher/listener is besieged by adverts that the stream source makes money from? Thereby making money from the piracy by others? Like a fence?

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 26-Feb-17 18:19:38
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
But the Prof mentioned "those that can't afford".

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Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 26-Feb-17 18:47:14
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
No idea. I'm yet to setup kodi so I don't know what the streams are like
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 26-Feb-17 19:16:46
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
And I'd never heard of it until this thread smile.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User epyon
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 26-Feb-17 20:06:03
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
I just want to download a car.

AAISP FTTC - 80/20 *TP-Link W9980*
Three - 4G *Huawei Honor 8*
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 26-Feb-17 20:54:01
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: epyon] [link to this post]
 
The 3D-printing instructions no doubt - live-linked to your 3D printer smile.

This isn't far off. AIUI lots of replacement parts are created this way these days.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 27-Feb-17 08:10:43
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Here's a news report about Kodi http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/kodi-boxes-legal-uk-how...
Standard User sidneyk
(experienced) Tue 28-Feb-17 22:32:31
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Streams are really good I have 2 Firesticks & a Minix NEO U1 Android Box with 2 builds installed & PIA VPN

Recommend installing Ares Wizard as there are over 500 'Builds' available from the wizard, but the most popular is Pulse
look up Mchanga on yotube for realtime install methods.

Plusnet
Standard User sidneyk
(experienced) Tue 28-Feb-17 22:43:45
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
There are no adverts when streamed using an Android box kodi/build, but you will get adverts on streaming sites such as 123Movies

Plusnet
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 01-Mar-17 08:21:40
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: sidneyk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sidneyk:
There are no adverts when streamed using an Android box kodi/build, but you will get adverts on streaming sites such as 123Movies
unless you run add and script blockers
Standard User scragglymonk
(knowledge is power) Tue 14-Mar-17 10:54:57
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Re: Why do small ISPs not have to block banned websites?


[re: jacko0] [link to this post]
 
The analogy between finding a wallet or a car with the keys in it and taking these items is that you can generally find the ownership of the car and the wallet and depriving the owners of the items is theft.

Finding money on the street or in a park is harder to prove who lost it.

Downloading a digital copy of a film or movie track is precisely that, a copy smile

You want free music ? check out soundcloud, jamendo etc and the plethora of "creative commons" music sites, here the site and artists legally allow you to download their music for free and to keep and share freely with others.

spotify is the same as kodi, you are streaming and never get to keep a copy of the music or film, spotify has legal rights to share the media, kodi is just a sharer and not the supplier smile

Am with a small ISP and if I wanted to could download from the pirate bay, which is open to me, but then would have my ip visible and getting a dear sir dcma takedown request can be annoying or expensive.

some proxies work, others do not. some vpn's allow torrents, while others fudge the issue only to allow that special letter to arrive and you lose access.

there are other ways around of course smile

Windows is now a 64 bit tweak of a 32 bit extension to a 16 bit user interface for an 8 bit operating system based on a 4 bit architecture from a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. Merula FTTC
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