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Standard User Dodgexander
(newbie) Mon 05-Mar-18 01:08:47
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FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[link to this post]
 
Currently on Plusnet 80/20 but contract has ended so looking for another deal. I could call Plusnet and try and bargain like I did last time but you never get offered a deal even anywhere near as good as new customers so I'm debating whether to move to a new provider.

Before fibre (thank God those days are over) we were using standard DSL and were probably the farthest house from the exchange getting only 1mb adsl max and 0.5 adsl.

Back in those days we started with tiscali who were great, until they sold to talktalk and our internet became unusable overnight. We then changed to o2 which was better but still had problems, but these problems generally stemmed from the fact that despite having a very slow connection we were subject to all the traffic shaping and port blocking everyone else had with their 20MB connections.

Once I did a traceroute on talktalk to the USA and it jumped to Germany and then France before hitting the destination!

We moved to Xilo because they advertised no throttling or port blocking add the experience was bliss by comparison. Back then they weren't expensive and could also offer line rental.

Then when we got fibre(2014) we went with Plusnet and it went downhill from there again. Plusnets customer service has been awful for us even at the start. Now of course it's worse. The service at first was decent but right now I can't say I've been very pleased. It's not bad but it's also not great either. Don't you just love those adverts on tv? I still haven't received an answer when I asked them where there award winning service was and frankly I'm fed up dealing with them.

So which provider now? I'd love to sign up with Xilo(uno) again but the unlimited plans are expensive and they don't offer line rental included in my area that pushes the price up even more.

Are there any benefits in a market 1 area like there used to be by going with a smaller isp? I was looking a pulse 8.

Are there any larger providers with no throttling or shaping with fast traces?

I have to say it's all very confusing if you don't live in an LLU area, you can read good things about a ISP but later find out that only applies to people who are on LLU connections. Pulse 8 seem to use talk talk business which obviously isn't available in my area so does this mean the service with them is going to be just as poor as any mainstream provider?

Which isp is the best in my situation or should I just save money?

My line details
My exchange

Thanks to anyone if they are able to help!
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Mon 05-Mar-18 03:51:44
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
One quick comment. Since you have an FTTC connection you can forget about the Plumpton exchange and LLU since your fibre will go back to a larger head end exchange which could be Burgess Hill or Haywards Heath. One area where being on a small exchange impacts is the phone/voice side of any bundle as this will be WLR3 and some ISPs don't want to use BT's WLR offerings.
Standard User 69bertie
(member) Mon 05-Mar-18 05:38:58
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
Same boat here really (Market 1). Unfortunately no LLU means whoever you go with it OpenReach are somewhere in the mix. As I kept getting leaflets about Talk Talk I thought I'd give them a try. Went through the sign up process only to fall at the instance. They don't service the exchange. So still stuck with Plusnet. They are OK, although I would say when I have used their Customer Service I have always got a result. But cheap and cheerful does come to mind.

Until I can get away from OR I really can't see much point going elsewhere. Pages load fine, it's the constant up and down with DLM that really gets me. We have had a lot of power cuts of late (weather related) and all DLM seems to want to do is punish me by sending me downwards.


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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 05-Mar-18 09:19:14
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: 69bertie] [link to this post]
 
You need a small Uninterruptible Power Supply to keep your modem or modem/router running through power cuts 69bertie. You donít need one with prolonged uptime on mains failure as if its battery runs flat you will still have avoided several rapid power cycles of the modem.

Unless of course keeping your internet access on as well is critical, in which case you need a business-level one. Maybe allied to an electricity generator.

I always used to use that companyís kit in my and my customersí offices.

Openreach DLM apparently allows up to 10 power cycles per 24 hours.

But your post and this are way off topic and need you to start your own thread in one of the technical forums if you want further advice.

Edit - PS. As MCM points out, LLU is irrelevant at the end userís exchange. It only matters at the fibre head-end exchange, and where that is isnít published to the likes of us. You just have to check with each LLU company to see if they can supply FTTC/P at the premises.

Also FTTC is only available through Openreach, and Openreachís DLM is applied on all such connections including Sky and TalkTalk.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 76102/14089Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 05-Mar-18 10:23:15)

Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 05-Mar-18 10:08:16
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
For FTTC you need to try each of the ISPs in turn and see whether they will supply.
John Lewis (run by Plusnet) don't charge more at Market 1 exchanges.
Vodafone will likely be cheap but you may or may not get get contention on the backhaul. Whether or not this happens is just a matter of luck. I think you can leave the contract in the 1st month without having to pay for the rest. Their router is best avoided especially if you have many wifi devices.

Does your connection speed justify paying for 80/20, or would a lower max speed of 55 or 38 be adequate?

Michael Chare
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Mon 05-Mar-18 12:53:24
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
What went downhill, with regard Pnet, your connection or just the Customer Service?

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User Dodgexander
(newbie) Mon 05-Mar-18 15:16:24
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MCM:
One quick comment. Since you have an FTTC connection you can forget about the Plumpton exchange and LLU since your fibre will go back to a larger head end exchange which could be Burgess Hill or Haywards Heath. One area where being on a small exchange impacts is the phone/voice side of any bundle as this will be WLR3 and some ISPs don't want to use BT's WLR offerings.


Ah so this is why Uno don't offer line rental for me any more. Makes sense. Thanks

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
For FTTC you need to try each of the ISPs in turn and see whether they will supply.
John Lewis (run by Plusnet) don't charge more at Market 1 exchanges.
Vodafone will likely be cheap but you may or may not get get contention on the backhaul. Whether or not this happens is just a matter of luck. I think you can leave the contract in the 1st month without having to pay for the rest. Their router is best avoided especially if you have many wifi devices.

Does your connection speed justify paying for 80/20, or would a lower max speed of 55 or 38 be adequate?


Thanks, my connection is actually pretty good speed wise but I could probably reduce it to 55 or 38 and not really be effected by it much. I used to download lots but not so much anymore.

A question, what do you mean you may or may not get connection on the backhaul?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:
You need a small Uninterruptible Power Supply to keep your modem or modem/router running through power cuts 69bertie. You donít need one with prolonged uptime on mains failure as if its battery runs flat you will still have avoided several rapid power cycles of the modem.

Unless of course keeping your internet access on as well is critical, in which case you need a business-level one. Maybe allied to an electricity generator.

I always used to use that companyís kit in my and my customersí offices.

Openreach DLM apparently allows up to 10 power cycles per 24 hours.

But your post and this are way off topic and need you to start your own thread in one of the technical forums if you want further advice.

Edit - PS. As MCM points out, LLU is irrelevant at the end userís exchange. It only matters at the fibre head-end exchange, and where that is isnít published to the likes of us. You just have to check with each LLU company to see if they can supply FTTC/P at the premises.

Also FTTC is only available through Openreach, and Openreachís DLM is applied on all such connections including Sky and TalkTalk.

But this is what I mean, all the reviews you read out there on IPSreview etc are from the majority of uses that are served by LLU. How does someone who is stuck with Openreach know which ISP is going to give them the best service? How do they know if X is even going to be better than Y?

In reply to a post by 69bertie:
Same boat here really (Market 1). Unfortunately no LLU means whoever you go with it OpenReach are somewhere in the mix. As I kept getting leaflets about Talk Talk I thought I'd give them a try. Went through the sign up process only to fall at the instance. They don't service the exchange. So still stuck with Plusnet. They are OK, although I would say when I have used their Customer Service I have always got a result. But cheap and cheerful does come to mind.

Until I can get away from OR I really can't see much point going elsewhere. Pages load fine, it's the constant up and down with DLM that really gets me. We have had a lot of power cuts of late (weather related) and all DLM seems to want to do is punish me by sending me downwards.

This is what I thought, although there do seem to be some companies that will supply fibre to market one and could possibly be better such as John Lewis and Vodafone..how to know they are going to be better for sure or not is another thing!

In reply to a post by broadband66:
What went downhill, with regard Pnet, your connection or just the Customer Service?

Connection and the customer service. I use VOIP a lot and the quality of calls is attrocious. I get better quality calls using 4g in my area. The traffic shaping they do seems to make service much, much worse during peak hours and the route connections make when accessing websites or servers always seems to be the slowest. Then you have the numerous service outages, although of course that may be down to a local problem.

Does anyone know if there is any benefit all in going with a different providor as market 1 or are they all going to just be the same? I presume the service until it reaches the local town exchange will be poor, but how much of a difference does having a better provider make after that point?

It was night and day to me back with ADSL and Uno/Xilo so can I expect similar today or do all the providors that supply to market 1 use the same paths etc that BT do?

Edited by Dodgexander (Mon 05-Mar-18 15:26:35)

Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 05-Mar-18 16:40:51
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Dodgexander:
A question, what do you mean you may or may not get connection on the backhaul?

I did write contention!

i.e. the connection from the exchange back to Vodafone is overloaded resulting in a poor service. Downloads slow and ping times up.

Michael Chare
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 05-Mar-18 17:04:41
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Dodgexander:
Does anyone know if there is any benefit all in going with a different providor as market 1 or are they all going to just be the same? I presume the service until it reaches the local town exchange will be poor, but how much of a difference does having a better provider make after that point.

Your cabinet may not be connected to your local exchange but rather to a bigger exchange nearby. The quality of service that you get will depend on the quality of your chosen ISP's backhaul arrangements. The likes of BT and Plusnet are likely to be OK. You can get an idea of what service a particular ISP might provide from some of the ISP performance comparisons published on this website.

Michael Chare
Standard User 69bertie
(member) Mon 05-Mar-18 17:27:26
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
But your post and this are way off topic

What the? You hold a seminar for what was a one sentence, end of. The rest of my post was relevant to the OP. Go figure!

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 05-Mar-18 18:42:00
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: 69bertie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 69bertie:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
But your post and this are way off topic
What the? You hold a seminar for what was a one sentence, end of. The rest of my post was relevant to the OP. Go figure!
Really.
In reply to a post by 69bertie:
Same boat here really (Market 1). Unfortunately no LLU means whoever you go with it OpenReach are somewhere in the mix.
Garbage. LLU does not remove Openreach whether or not LLU is present. Not on ADSLx, not on FTTC/P. (There is no such thing anyway as LLU FTTC/P). The only way you avoid Openreach is networks like CityFibre.

As a nit-picking detail seeing as you are being rather rude considering I gave you significant help over your hijacking complaint about power cuts and DLM, Market 1, 2, 3 classifications ceased to exist on 26 June 2014. (It wasn't worth bothering the OP about this). The only two classifications now are Market A and Market B. Whatever you may see on samknows.

A lot of "Market 1" exchanges are in Market B. It seems likely yours is however in Market A. The OP's is, which is why it wasn't worth pointing it out until you started to throw your weight about.
As I kept getting leaflets about Talk Talk I thought I'd give them a try. Went through the sign up process only to fall at the instance. They don't service the exchange. So still stuck with Plusnet.
Completely irrelevant to the OP.
They are OK, although I would say when I have used their Customer Service I have always got a result. But cheap and cheerful does come to mind.
Wow, something useful!
Until I can get away from OR I really can't see much point going elsewhere.
As explained, your chances of getting away from Openreach approximate to zero at a Market A exchange.
Pages load fine, it's the constant up and down with DLM that really gets me. We have had a lot of power cuts of late (weather related) and all DLM seems to want to do is punish me by sending me downwards.
Which I gave you sound advice on and suggested that if you want to know more, from anyone, about UPSs you should open a thread in a relevant forum. Rather than continue that discussion in this thread.
In reply to a post by 69bertie:
Go figure!
Precisely what you need to do, instead of being so darn rude!

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 76102/14089Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 05-Mar-18 18:43:25)

Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Mon 05-Mar-18 18:44:33
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Dodgexander:
Ah so this is why Uno don't offer line rental for me any more. Makes sense. Thanks


We can offer that for any broadband only service, check box on the second page of the order. smile

It's just not a bundled service

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host
Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Tue 13-Mar-18 12:01:17
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
My cabinet is a new one built that connects to the Plumpton exchange I am sure. But I thought from reading on here that it's possible the line goes from the village exchange to a town exchange before reaching any network beyond openreach.

What I'm trying to ascertain is how much of a difference is it going to make? If the signal is already congested until it goes to a larger exchange then why bother having a better isp beyond that?

Those lucky enough to connect to services directly I know there's a benefit having a bespoke isp but how much difference does it make for those who are going to be connected locally by openreach anyway?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 13-Mar-18 13:20:40
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
"Those lucky enough to connect to services directly I know there's a benefit having a bespoke isp but how much difference does it make for those who are going to be connected locally by openreach anyway?"

I don't understand, no provider is able to pick on the FTTC services directly at the VDSL2 cabinet, all providers BT Wholesale, TalkTalk, Sky etc etc are limited to picking up the service from the Handover exchange.

Some providers buy wholesale services (usually from BT Wholesale or TalkTalk Wholesale) where there are additional options, e.g. pick up your bandwidth at a regional level node or even just one national node.

Congestion in the fibre segment between cabinet and handover exchange is rarer than congestion in the handover links which is rarer than congestion in the regional nodes that wholesalers operate.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 13-Mar-18 14:06:50
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
The likelihood of congestion between the FTTC cabinet and the Openreach exchange handover point is extremely low. Particularly over an extended period.

Which exchange that is doesn't matter, but given that Plumpton is a Market A exchange it is certain that it is not hold the fibre handover. The fibre itself may or may not go anywhere near it, as the signals for fibre and phone line are completely separated at the FTTC cabinet on the way out from you.

At the handover point, each wholesaler, (BT Wholesale, TalkTalk Business Wholesale and Vodafone), buy throughput capacity, and congestion can occur for their supplied ISPs if the wholesaler does not buy enough.

Again, for BT Wholesale to have that handover from Openreach to them congested is very unlikely.

Very few providers do not use Openreach to provide fibre (and phone line) connections. Only the likes of Hyperoptic and CityFibre, which are bsically only present in big cities.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 76102/14089Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 13-Mar-18 14:47:57
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Believe handover for Plumpton is Lewes

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Tue 13-Mar-18 15:18:21
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
You are correct.

CSS Exchange: PLMPT/ PLUMPTON
OHP District code: SD
OHP Exchange code: LWS
OHP Exchange name: LEWES

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host
Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Tue 13-Mar-18 17:56:21
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
So the bottom line is there's probably just as much of a difference because most likely any congestion will be on a higher level than locally?

I'd love to go uno again but the problem is cost. Does anyone know the best value phone line rental? Preferably with good priced phone calls or decent package options that I could combine with uno?
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Tue 13-Mar-18 18:07:34
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
https://pulse8broadband.co.uk/line-packages

£13/month. 1p/minute peak time, no call set up fee and per second billing.

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Tue 13-Mar-18 18:44:29
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
You can just add our standard rental? wink

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Tue 13-Mar-18 18:53:10
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Am I right in thinking that 20% VAT has to be applied to those prices?

John Lewis Broadband
Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Tue 13-Mar-18 19:00:23
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jelv:
https://pulse8broadband.co.uk/line-packages

£13/month. 1p/minute peak time, no call set up fee and per second billing.


So that's at least £26+13= £39 a month without call charges. That's for 40MB too.

I know uno is a good company and I'd jump to them in a heartbeat if could afford it but the prices are still very high.

Edited by Dodgexander (Tue 13-Mar-18 21:55:04)

Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Tue 13-Mar-18 19:01:54
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uno:
You can just add our standard rental? wink

Matt


Hi Matt, unfortunately your line rental isn't available to my number. Thanks though.

Edited by Dodgexander (Tue 13-Mar-18 21:54:05)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 14-Mar-18 01:41:54
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Dodgexander:
Hi Matt, unfortunately your line rental isn't available to my number. Thanks though.
???

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 76102/14089Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User bernado
(member) Wed 14-Mar-18 18:55:44
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Dodgexander:
In reply to a post by jelv:
https://pulse8broadband.co.uk/line-packages

£13/month. 1p/minute peak time, no call set up fee and per second billing.


So that's at least £26+13= £39 a month without call charges. That's for 40MB too.

I know uno is a good company and I'd jump to them in a heartbeat if could afford it but the prices are still very high.


I know what you mean, I was in the same dilema myself when deciding what to do for upgrading my Uno ADSL connection recently.
I'd been with Uno/Xilo for years and am a bit wedded to them but whilst BT's fibre package starts at pretty much the same kind of price (the free weekend calls aren't much use to me), Talk Talk's equivalent is £20 cheaper per month which is pretty significant.

I ended up paying the extra and stayed with Uno's TTB 40/10 package purely because I've always found them to be incredibly helpful, responding to tickets (not that I've had the need for many) stupidly quickly.

At the end of the day though it's entirely possible I could have got the same quality internet direct from Talk Talk's domestic service for loads cheaper than I'm paying now, which is a bit daft really.

I've resigned myself to this fact by viewing it as an isurance policy, something that is required but hope never to have to use.

That extra £200 per year would have bought a decent amount of beer though frown
Standard User professor973
(knowledge is power) Wed 14-Mar-18 20:33:02
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
One of us previous customers that are on the banned list. There are a few of us and as you know always denied, but all previous customers who had a little problem or moan previously.

Standard User professor973
(knowledge is power) Wed 14-Mar-18 20:34:48
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
Pulse8

Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Wed 14-Mar-18 21:12:34
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
I think you're looking at the bundled service.

Line rental is available with any other product - you just add this when ordering.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host
Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Sat 17-Mar-18 03:40:56
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
For those interested I created my own spreadsheet to calculate the differences in cost based upon my own usage (as reported by Plusnet) over the last 11 months (annoying how they don't give you 12 months). If you want to try using it yourself you can edit the call minutes month by month from your own bill. Obviously some of it is tailored towards me personally, but perhaps it helps someone else?

I calculated the average, plus how much I save having any call plans on top the best I could.

Of course I couldn't compare evening and weekend call costs because plusnet do not itemise between a free call and a paid one, so fishing through each call I thought would be too much work.

One thing I have to say, Matt, or to Uno in general. You really should put your prices as VAT included on your website as it makes it very hard to compare and it isn't the clearest to a new customer either.

Bear in mind this is market 1 so prices will be different to some, Plusnet for example charge extra for market 1 users.
My Spreadsheet

This is for 80/20 only.

Summary:

Vodafone if I include the £8 a month unlimited call bundle works out at only £444 a year. Incredible value really.

Aquiss: The cost is calculated including their 3 months free offer currently in place, otherwise their pricing isn't competitive.

If you are on large provider they have terrible PAYG call charges so if you use your home phone be sure to go with unlimited or evening and weekend calls, be strict with your usage as this does cost you an arm and a leg if you don't.

If you are someone rarely uses their home phone or you have very irregular usage then the small ISPs are actually pretty good value. Without any call bundles included Vodafone is only £20 per year cheaper than Aquis and thats with my phone usage and only £80 cheaper than Pulse8.

If you are someone who doesn't use the home phone at all then you might be tempted to go with freeola's silent line rental at around £9 a month with your own BB on top which would bring prices down of the small ISPs even more.


Be warned:

1. Plusnets £10 a month offer including 1000 hour mobile minutes is sneaky. Those 1000 hours free are evenings only!
2. Vodafones £8 a month anytime mobile and landline calls is much better value.
3. Uno's PAYG is very cheap for mobile calls otherwise, they are cheap in general.
4. Pulse8 and Aquiss call costs aren't bad either for PAYG.


My personal conclusion:

I am going to find it very hard to justify the cost of any small ISP compared to Vodafones potential savings. The cheapest small company provider would work out as Aquiss (only because of 3 months free) followed by Pulse8.

That is a good £100/£150 more. Not as bad as I expected because call costs are actually low compared to large providers but definitely a decent chunk of money.

I haven't come to a conclusion yet but I think that Uno and Zen are far too expensive, I can't really justify another £250 a year compared to Vodafone. Perhaps if they had call bundle deals or rental savers it would be different, or even if they cut the cost slightly per month.

I think right now Aquiss due to offer and Vodafone are leading the race.

Anyone have any suggestions or others I can add?

I know some of my methods are flawed, firstly I calculated Uno home calls based on an average of day, evening and weekend and I also didn't take into consideration any evening and weekend deals.

But is there anyone else with a good reputation/cost I could add in?

Edit* Added IDNET who sit in the middle ground, oddly for me their unlimited call bundle would cost more. I guess if you have heavy phone use this would increase in value.

Edited by Dodgexander (Sat 17-Mar-18 04:11:03)

Standard User ian007jen
(experienced) Sat 17-Mar-18 10:44:34
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
When I do this for my comparison I always like to see the second years cost as well, unless you want to switch every 12-24 months to keep the new customer deals.

I now value up-time (during migration) and even care level.

I am with Pulse8 for line and (very few) calls and BT Business for ADSL, both have prompt care and with BT I have a £8 discount per month.

This compares well with other providers standard pricing ( £15.50 Line and calls and £17.88 ADSL on a market 1 exchange)

Ian
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 17-Mar-18 11:30:15
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
I gather you are simply looking for the cheapest you can get.

There is generally a reason for being the cheapest wink. Though it's possible Vodafone are throwing money away to buy market share.

From congestion complaints I see on these forums I personally wouldn't touch them. Assuming Lewes is the fibre headend exchange, (suggested by MrSaffron), Vodafone do not have an LLU presence there if samknows is up to date. That could mean they are using BT Wholesale backhaul, and it seems to be on such exchanges the Voda-congestion mainly arises. BTW backhaul is vastly more expensive than LLU backhaul.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 76102/14089Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Sat 17-Mar-18 15:32:48
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I gather you are simply looking for the cheapest you can get.

There is generally a reason for being the cheapest wink. Though it's possible Vodafone are throwing money away to buy market share.

From congestion complaints I see on these forums I personally wouldn't touch them. Assuming Lewes is the fibre headend exchange, (suggested by MrSaffron), Vodafone do not have an LLU presence there if samknows is up to date. That could mean they are using BT Wholesale backhaul, and it seems to be on such exchanges the Voda-congestion mainly arises. BTW backhaul is vastly more expensive than LLU backhaul.


Thanks, so this is one reason to go with one of the smaller companies then.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 17-Mar-18 15:56:31
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
Whether or not you get a good service from Vodafone appears to be a matter of luck.
I get a good FTTC service and there is no Vodafone LLU at the exchange I am told my FTTC cabinet is connected to, though that may be a separate issue from how the backhaul is handled.

I don't use the Vodafone router.

I think the Vodafone T&C allow you to leave in the first month without penalty but I would check before joining. That way you can quit if the backhaul proves to be congested.

If you want to reduce the cost of phone calls use VOIP.

Michael Chare
Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Sun 18-Mar-18 21:33:01
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
Here's my recent broadband quality meter btw, although its connected to an access point behind my router.

Edited by Dodgexander (Sun 18-Mar-18 22:35:51)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 18-Mar-18 22:28:57
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP *DELETED*


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by RobertoS - The poster's link was corrupt, now fixed.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 18-Mar-18 23:05:28)

Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Sun 18-Mar-18 22:36:40
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
The page "/broadband/monitoring/quality/53bb0b08b777d26f4128879ebf6d62d94c279b1c.png" you were looking for was not found.
Did you pick up the sharing link, or is this the URL of the page you were on, which can't work as it was you logged in.


Sorry, made a mistake in the link. Fixed it now!
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 18-Mar-18 23:12:45
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
That's better, though still not the best presentation smile. Click either BQM in my sig. They use the "Direct link" given if you click "Share live graph".

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 76102/14089Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 19-Mar-18 00:03:48
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
My Vodafone BQM.

Michael Chare
Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Mon 19-Mar-18 05:35:52
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Live Plusnet 80/20 connection

Still undecided, discussed it with the Mrs and she's just in favour of saving money but everything inside is just telling me Vodafone isn't going to be a better service.

I know you can try a month but I know how it goes with these things, I'm sure it will be fine at first only later to get worse.

I also think if you go for one of the big companies you may as well go BT or Plusnet to get BT TV included.

If it were up to me I'd have already signed up to one of the small companies but hey, money is money.
Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Mon 19-Mar-18 05:38:02
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
My Vodafone BQM.

Thanks for that, looks better than mine. Two questions though, how did it compare to your previous service and does the Vodafone modem support the ICMP wan ping needed for the BQM?
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 19-Mar-18 10:23:06
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
I use a Zyxel VMG8924-B10A router bought 2nd hand on ebay, instead of the Vodafone one. It is the first FTTC service I have had.

Michael Chare
Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Tue 20-Mar-18 01:11:43
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
Usual plusnet antics again tonight, suddenly a bunch of packet loss and 1mbps download speeds whilst retaining 20mbps upload speeds. High pings too..

Strange how this happens and then a reboot of the hub gets it working again temporarily. Maybe the hub is at fault.

Snapshot

Btw Michael I also noticed some outage to you also on your BQM, this isn't normal right?

Speedtest.net result

thinkbroadband speed test

Edited by Dodgexander (Tue 20-Mar-18 01:15:02)

Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Tue 20-Mar-18 01:20:00
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
aaaannd after a reboot all fine and dandy again

For now!
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 20-Mar-18 09:52:21
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
The outage was caused by me switching off the power to the house after I posted the BQM snapshot!

Michael Chare
Standard User Dodgexander
(learned) Mon 26-Mar-18 21:46:27
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Re: FTTC only Market 1 Best ISP


[re: Dodgexander] [link to this post]
 
As an update I opted to go for the recent special deal with BT. Works out cheaper than many of the bespoke providers even when you factor in I went for the Max TV package and a mobile sim.

Service will probably be the same or worse but I can't justify spending the extra cash. I wish there was a more reasonably priced internet only provider but you pay for what you get I guess.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

nb I was very close to signing up to Vodafone but a very unpleasant online chat put me off. Their sales team like to guarantee you will get a minimum speed. Several attempts to weed it out of them and they eventually said it was just the line speed shown by the router and went on to talk about how wifi can affect the other speeds. They didn't understand the difference between throughput and line speed. What a joke. The're service will drop during prime hours just the same as all the big providers.
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