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Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Mon 05-Sep-11 23:09:03
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Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[link to this post]
 
My father owns a small restaurant that will be undergoing a revamp soon.

As part of the revamp, my father wants to offer Wi-Fi to his customers (either free or nominal charge - TBD).

The restaurant only has a voice service for now (XLN Telecom) so I am looking for providers who offer a broadband connection plus (or separate) managed Wi-Fi hotspot service.

I'm focused on finding a suitable managed/supported Wi-Fi hotspot service as my fatherís PC skills are very limited (can browse the Web and open/read emails - doesn't compose his own) and I work full time elsewhere (so really don't want to be taking support calls from my father when I am at work - or even when I am off work for that matter).

The only providers that spring to mind currently are:

BT Openzone - offer both the Broadband connection through BT Business Broadband + Openzone service

The Cloud - Not exactly sure on The Cloud. My quick glance across the website doesn't give me much to go on, no prices that I can see without emailing them (which I will be doing)

If there are any other options that people know of, I would appreciate the help.

**Exchange info**
The restaurant is located is located on St Peters Street opposite the junction with The Friars and just round the corner from the telephone exchange in Canterbury.
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/NDCAN

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~24336.33 kbit/s - ~2970.74 KB/s
Upstream ~10224.86 kbit/s - ~1248.15 KB/s
Sky MID
Downstream Att. ~62db - SNR ~5.5db - Sync - ~2784 Kbps
Upstream Att. ~31db - SNR ~16db - Sync - ~832 Kbps
Standard User ian007jen
(member) Tue 06-Sep-11 10:59:43
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
The most simple option is to sign up to BT and use thier Openzone network as you mentioned

IAn
Standard User ukhardy07
(committed) Tue 06-Sep-11 11:37:18
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: ian007jen] [link to this post]
 
Isn't it £5 a day to use bt openzone broadband?

Doubt customers would be happy paying so much


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Standard User domhampton
(learned) Tue 06-Sep-11 19:12:07
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
you also won't make any money from the service either.

Take a look at Sputnik. Available on DD-WRT. Get yourself a WRT-54g router (£50ish) flash it with the DD_WRT firmware and subscribe to sputnik which will handle all the billing for you and add any adverts.

We could put a enterprise solution for you but that would be about £1k, Sputnik is very easy to use and flashing a router is not difficult if you follow the instructions carefully. You can even buy them pre-flashed from ebay.

You would need to check your ISPs conditions though

Dominic Hampton
W: http://www.fastruralbroadband.co.uk
T:01763 87 80 86
E: info@attend2.co.uk
Standard User ukhardy07
(committed) Tue 06-Sep-11 19:49:48
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: domhampton] [link to this post]
 
The only thing i wonder about this solution.

If somebody uses the network to download something illegal, will it be under a different ip to the restaurant owners personal network or will it be traced to the owner & not the copywrite infringer?

Eg openreach assigns a completely different ip address to people using the service. These people have to setup an account & pay for access via a bank card. Hence they are traceable & it's clear that the restaurant / coffee shop owner did not download the illegal content such as a music torrent.
Standard User domhampton
(learned) Tue 06-Sep-11 19:55:34
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
you can put a terms of usage on it.

Legally you are probably right it may be better to get a dedicated IP, which you could do - i was unaware the open reach did, only that it separates the traffic from your network (as does sputnik).

However my personnel feeling is that it wouldn't stand up in court, or at least it shouldn't another example of legality stiffiling legal folks life just to ensure the mischievousness cannot do bad.....

-Stands off soap box-

Dominic Hampton
W: http://www.fastruralbroadband.co.uk
T:01763 87 80 86
E: info@attend2.co.uk
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Tue 06-Sep-11 21:28:18
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
I've emailed both BT Openzone and The Cloud tonight and await there responses.

As for offering a free or paid service, there are several factors to consider.

The restaurant is limited in capacity (3.5m wide x 20m long - seating approximately 40) and my father would probably prefer to have a higher turnover of customers paying for meals/drinks at peak times than sat around using a free Wi-Fi service making one coffee/tea last an hour.

In my opinion, offering a paid (time limited?) service at peak time and then free service off peak would be the best option to entice customers in when you can afford for them to make a single coffee last an hour laugh

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~24336.33 kbit/s - ~2970.74 KB/s
Upstream ~10224.86 kbit/s - ~1248.15 KB/s
Sky MID
Downstream Att. ~62db - SNR ~5.5db - Sync - ~2784 Kbps
Upstream Att. ~31db - SNR ~16db - Sync - ~832 Kbps
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Tue 06-Sep-11 21:47:40
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: domhampton] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the input Dominic.

I've had a quick glance at the Sputnik site and it does look interesting (I have a spare WRT54GL that replaced was replaced by an Asus RT-N16 for our home router).

Downside to Sputnik is that I would probably end up being the technical support 24/7 when I'm personally trying to avoid this due to my own commitments (and sanity laugh)

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~24336.33 kbit/s - ~2970.74 KB/s
Upstream ~10224.86 kbit/s - ~1248.15 KB/s
Sky MID
Downstream Att. ~62db - SNR ~5.5db - Sync - ~2784 Kbps
Upstream Att. ~31db - SNR ~16db - Sync - ~832 Kbps
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Fri 09-Sep-11 02:15:17
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
The Cloud got back to me by email and phone today.

£200 setup/install fee
£35 per month managed service fee includes:
-Free customer access
-Our monitoring of the equipment
-24 hour customer support line
-All marketing materials
-General maintenance of the equipment
-Monthly reporting
-Branded banner on your landing page
-Data capture as per the EU legislation

3 year minimum contract term with an approximate lead time of 4 weeks from order.

Apparently Tiscali are used to provide the broadband connection at the moment in time (I did ask as I thought that they would use the BSkyB network seeing as they are now owned by BSkyB).

Nothing back from BT Openzone yet.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~24336.33 kbit/s - ~2970.74 KB/s
Upstream ~10224.86 kbit/s - ~1248.15 KB/s
Standard User ukhardy07
(committed) Fri 09-Sep-11 05:42:05
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Yaz:
The Cloud got back to me by email and phone today.

£200 setup/install fee
£35 per month managed service fee includes:
-Free customer access
-Our monitoring of the equipment
-24 hour customer support line
-All marketing materials
-General maintenance of the equipment
-Monthly reporting
-Branded banner on your landing page
-Data capture as per the EU legislation

3 year minimum contract term with an approximate lead time of 4 weeks from order.

Apparently Tiscali are used to provide the broadband connection at the moment in time (I did ask as I thought that they would use the BSkyB network seeing as they are now owned by BSkyB).

Nothing back from BT Openzone yet.


Interesting considering that tiscali no longer exist. Tiscali was bought out by talktalk and you can no longer subscribe to tiscali broadband. If you try to access any tiscali related site you'll be transfered to talktalk's website

Just wondering, does that £35 a month include your own broadband connection and line rental?

If so honestly I don't think it's too bad.


The downside to the cloud is the setup fee and monthly fee.

With BT openzone...

You would simply need to subscribe to BT broadband & then enable the openzone service. This is assuming you subscribe to the home service with the homehub. Not entirely sure if it's as straight forward with business broadband.

You would not incur any charges to do this.

Essentially the router would broadcast 2 wireless connections. One for your own broadband, named e.g. BThomehub5432. & the other connection for guests called either 'BTFON' or 'BTopenzone'

The only negatives with this is the customer will not get a free service & will have to pay when they connect to the Wi-Fi. This is all done on a landing page via BT, so you don't have to police it.

Also the service is limited to 512kbps

Both 'the cloud' and 'openzone' options mean if somebody accesses e.g. child pornography / downloads movies torrents on the wifi you will not be liable.

with other services, it might be tracked back to you if the network uses your external IP address.

Keep us updated
Standard User anon1
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 09-Sep-11 18:21:47
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
Have you considered that if it is a restaurant and not a coffee bar then eating customers could be put off by people playing with their laptops/ipads. As much as I use wi-fi in motorway service areas, or some coffee shops, I would not while sat down in a restaurant.

Just a thought
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Sat 10-Sep-11 10:59:26
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Interesting considering that tiscali no longer exist. Tiscali was bought out by talktalk and you can no longer subscribe to tiscali broadband. If you try to access any tiscali related site you'll be transfered to talktalk's website

Just wondering, does that £35 a month include your own broadband connection and line rental?

If so honestly I don't think it's too bad.


The downside to the cloud is the setup fee and monthly fee.

With BT openzone...

You would simply need to subscribe to BT broadband & then enable the openzone service. This is assuming you subscribe to the home service with the homehub. Not entirely sure if it's as straight forward with business broadband.

You would not incur any charges to do this.

Essentially the router would broadcast 2 wireless connections. One for your own broadband, named e.g. BThomehub5432. & the other connection for guests called either 'BTFON' or 'BTopenzone'

The only negatives with this is the customer will not get a free service & will have to pay when they connect to the Wi-Fi. This is all done on a landing page via BT, so you don't have to police it.

Also the service is limited to 512kbps

Both 'the cloud' and 'openzone' options mean if somebody accesses e.g. child pornography / downloads movies torrents on the wifi you will not be liable.

with other services, it might be tracked back to you if the network uses your external IP address.

Keep us updated


The lady who called me back said Tiscali though I also interpreted that to be TalkTalk.

The £35 is the Broadband + Managed fee only. The voice line is currently with BT (XLN Telecom being the company that my father pays line rental to).

I'm a little disappointed that I haven't had any response from BT Openzone yet. Emailed the sales address 30min's after I emailed The Cloud on the 6 Sept.

Regarding the limited connection speed through BT Openzone, the anticipated DSL sync at the property is likely to be 17mb+ as the exchange is within 100m of the business.

I've also taken a look at http://www.sputnik.com/ along with combining it with our own choice of broadband supplier.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~24336.33 kbit/s - ~2970.74 KB/s
Upstream ~10224.86 kbit/s - ~1248.15 KB/s
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Sat 10-Sep-11 11:08:28
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: anon1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by anon1:
Have you considered that if it is a restaurant and not a coffee bar then eating customers could be put off by people playing with their laptops/ipads. As much as I use wi-fi in motorway service areas, or some coffee shops, I would not while sat down in a restaurant.

Just a thought


It's not a typical evening style restaurant but more of a cafe/restaurant. Open at ~9am and closed by ~7pm at the moment (lost a lot of evening business while they have been rebuilding the Canterbury Marlowe Theatre).

My father's also looking to offer the Wi-Fi primarily during quiet periods to attract customers in. When you have a few people sitting down, others looking in are more likely to come in than if they see an empty restaurant.

Either way, it's not likely that the customer base that the restaurant attracts is going to be put off if one or two people are using a laptop etc. to go online next to them.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~24336.33 kbit/s - ~2970.74 KB/s
Upstream ~10224.86 kbit/s - ~1248.15 KB/s
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 14-Sep-11 15:54:51
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
Tiscali Wholesale is now called Opal, once TalkTalk bought them.

May have referred to Tiscali as simply a name they think people will know.

£35 a month, if including the broadband is not too bad, but question is whether that is purely dedicated to The Cloud, i.e. needs an additional line.

The DIY approach is not too difficult, but meeting EU rules on access tracking is where I am not sure on the obligations.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 14-Sep-11 16:37:23
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
http://corp.fon.com/en/business/small-business/

Might be worth a look, Fon uses a tunnel system, thus would not appear as your IP address.

The 30 minutes free would suffice for most people i.e. pre/post meal facebook updates, assuming that they don't need to be a FON member already.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Wed 14-Sep-11 23:26:54
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
http://corp.fon.com/en/business/small-business/

Might be worth a look, Fon uses a tunnel system, thus would not appear as your IP address.

The 30 minutes free would suffice for most people i.e. pre/post meal facebook updates, assuming that they don't need to be a FON member already.


Thanks for the input Andrew.

From your earlier post, Talktalk in any form is not something that inspires me to use any of there services to be honest.

The £35pm charge included the broadband service and management fee but not the line rental/voice line (which only needed to be a BT line for The Cloud to operate via).

I've taken a brief look at the Fon website and I have to admit that it looks like the best option so far. I was interested to read that you could potentially earn from the service (before reading the small print that excluded the UK). Still, it's a zero cost option (excluding the initial hardware outlay) on top of whatever broadband service we choose.

Going back to my original post, I've still not had any response from BT Openzone.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~24336.33 kbit/s - ~2970.74 KB/s
Upstream ~10224.86 kbit/s - ~1248.15 KB/s
Standard User ukhardy07
(committed) Thu 15-Sep-11 01:02:05
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
Isn't FON and openzone ultimately the same service?

I think if you sign up to certain BT packages they give you all of the hardware etc required to make a hotspot

Even the HomeHub broadcasts BTopenzone if you enable it...

On the home broadband services the BT openzone side of the network is limited to 512 kbps even if the broadband sync is over 20 mbps. But again this should be fine.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 15-Sep-11 12:27:27
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
There is the FON standard alone routers and there is the agreement BT and FON have that means BT Home Hubs are also FON hotspots.

So not the same thing, but close.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Adamant
(legend) Fri 24-Feb-12 14:12:10
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
I appreciate this thread is dead but I've been thinking of playing around with Sputnik / rolling my own solution for a while - if you want to try something then I'm sure I could help out (I'm based down in Margate!).

I have a couple of friends with Wine Bars / Cafes in Thanet who have asked me for a free hotspot solution previously so another site would probably be worth the time looking into getting it working!

In reply to a post by Yaz:
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
http://corp.fon.com/en/business/small-business/

Might be worth a look, Fon uses a tunnel system, thus would not appear as your IP address.

The 30 minutes free would suffice for most people i.e. pre/post meal facebook updates, assuming that they don't need to be a FON member already.


Thanks for the input Andrew.

From your earlier post, Talktalk in any form is not something that inspires me to use any of there services to be honest.

The £35pm charge included the broadband service and management fee but not the line rental/voice line (which only needed to be a BT line for The Cloud to operate via).

I've taken a brief look at the Fon website and I have to admit that it looks like the best option so far. I was interested to read that you could potentially earn from the service (before reading the small print that excluded the UK). Still, it's a zero cost option (excluding the initial hardware outlay) on top of whatever broadband service we choose.

Going back to my original post, I've still not had any response from BT Openzone.


Adam
Sky Max LLU
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 10-May-12 21:09:50
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service *DELETED*


[re: ian007jen] [link to this post]
 
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Standard User jorgea
(newbie) Sat 26-May-12 02:23:08
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Re: Small restaurant WiFi Hotspot service *DELETED*


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
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