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Standard User ultra
(experienced) Thu 19-Jul-12 13:58:11
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ISP input welcome - want diverse links


[link to this post]
 
On behalf of a client in Chester, on Chester Central exchange...

2 weeks ago they lost BOTH ADSL 2+ connections (each has fixed IP, one used for staff browsing, other VoIP to staff in Italy and UK). This was a fault at exchange affecting all BT-based ISPs for 5/6 hours.

Would like FTTC but not offered.

HQ is 300m or less to Chester North exchange, but no option to connect there, it seems...

Would like suggestions for ways to always have one connection working...

Thanks.

---

If you run a business, have a second ISP and backup web hosting...

1996? Enterprise (IoM 0345) + Clara.net
1998? Clara.net + Freeserve

2000 Freeserve 500kbps (+ Clara dial-up + Clara USENET/Mail)
2002 ? Eclipse 500 kbps + FS
2003 ? UKFSN 1000 kbps + Eclipse
2005 ? PlusNet 8 Mbps+ Eclipse
moved home - used office BB
2008 Three dongle at home
2010 PlusNet 2 Mbps + Three dongle
2012 PN 10 Mbps + Three (ZTE 802.11 router) + Three mobile (802.11 hotspot)
2013 PN 30? Mbps + VM 30+? Mbps + Three mobile
Standard User ionic
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-Jul-12 14:20:30
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Re: ISP input welcome - want diverse links


[re: ultra] [link to this post]
 
getting georgraphioc diversity is very expensive, howebver what I do at a number of sites is have one BT-based, one LLU based connection - this provides some degree of protection in a fairly cost-effective manner.,
Standard User vivaciti
(knowledge is power) Thu 19-Jul-12 15:19:38
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Re: ISP input welcome - want diverse links


[re: ultra] [link to this post]
 
There is no way to guarantee 100% uptime without the expense of a leased line, best option would be to have one BT based connection and get the other as an LLU connection so at leas you have mitigated some of the risk, you can then get the firewall to do some load balancing, and set it so the voice traffic always goes through connection A and everything else connection B, but if either the connection goes down to then push all traffic through remaining route.

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Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 19-Jul-12 16:35:51
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Re: ISP input welcome - want diverse links


[re: vivaciti] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by vivaciti:
There is no way to guarantee 100% uptime without the expense of a leased line, best option would be to have one BT based connection and get the other as an LLU connection so at leas you have mitigated some of the risk, you can then get the firewall to do some load balancing, and set it so the voice traffic always goes through connection A and everything else connection B, but if either the connection goes down to then push all traffic through remaining route.


Pretty much this with the option of either having a backup dongle on site or a dongle enabled router kept at a centeral location to be taken to site if exchange suffers a TLS (Total Loss Service, EI flooding). I work in a dual solution on BT/LLU and for the most part its resilent, however due to common copper thefts it occosionally takes out both lines, dongle back up is a essential where ADSL uptime is essential (such as ADSL PDQ sites, wifi essential, etc)
Standard User Drew_M
(regular) Fri 20-Jul-12 06:42:58
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Re: ISP input welcome - want diverse links


[re: ultra] [link to this post]
 
These days I am advising anyone who considers the Internet vital to their business away from DSL. It is such a commodity that reliability and availability are becoming bigger issues. I would suggest an EFM circuit with a DSL fail over. A little more money that a DSL line granted but with an SLA should it break (And automated failover to DSL so no one notices any way), no contention or shaping they are a very cost effective leased line alternative.

As others have said, the other, cheaper, option is to take a circuit from two wholesale providers. We can offer bonded ADSL with two lines one on BT and one on BE again with seemless load transfer in the event of a failure but you are then with the masses and any contention that might exist at your local exchange.

If you would like to discuss this personally, please feel free to drop me a PM or give me a call.

Drew

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Fri 20-Jul-12 15:49:11
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Re: ISP input welcome - want diverse links


[re: ultra] [link to this post]
 
Would like suggestions for ways to always have one connection working...

One via existing copper pair, and the second via Virgin Cable Media service.
Maybe, if no VM service in your area, how about paying for your own fibre service, and keep a DSL as a back up ?

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Fri 20-Jul-12 15:52:23
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Re: ISP input welcome - want diverse links


[re: Drew_M] [link to this post]
 
I would suggest an EFM circuit with a DSL fail over. A little more money that a DSL line granted but with an SLA should it break (And automated failover to DSL so no one notices any way)

All well and good, 'till the cable gets cut, no EFM and no DSL back up.

Standard User Drew_M
(regular) Fri 20-Jul-12 16:05:06
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Re: ISP input welcome - want diverse links


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
All well and good, 'till the cable gets cut, no EFM and no DSL back up.


Agreed but to step from DSL to fibre based leased line is quite a cost step (In Chester) and how far do you go? If someone wants to dig up the drive from your building and is not careful they potentially could take the fibre duct, the copper duct and the mains as they will often run side by side or at least quite close to each other and the excavator drive is unlikely to notice until the big blue flash...

If you need to be that protected you either need to co-lo your kit and be mobile in where you work from with DR sites available for your staff or take multiple circuits in to different corners of the building each taking diverse paths off the premises to diverse carrier PoPs but this all comes at a huge price to ensure VoIP calls work! wink

Drew

Standard User Ev_Networks
(newbie) Tue 07-Aug-12 14:24:11
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Re: ISP input welcome - want diverse links


[re: ultra] [link to this post]
 
I agree with Drew, when it comes to resilient internet connections and lowering risk there really is only so far you can go.

A year or two ago the Paddington exchange was taken out by fire, then flood, which stopped traffic on not just ADSL, but Ethernet and even mobile networks.

Saying you want a connection to be always online is unfortunately going to be impossible, but what you can do is put some thought into what you need and what steps you can take to keep you online longer.

You can bond EFM and ADSL, as well as ADSL and Ethernet services together, which also gives you the same level of failover, with a single IP range, but also you get to use the bandwidth of both at all times, whereas in a simple failover setup, you will by definition always be ignoring some of the bandwidth coming to your building (the failover line).

At the end of the day it all comes down to what circuit technologies are available at your location and at what cost, but bonding across technology boundaries is a very good way of doing that. You can even put a TalkTalk Business EFM in with a BT ADSL service. Then you are protected against even more failures.

But as has already been pointed out, when you start getting into any more detail, you have to move past just the connectivity and look more generally at your business continuity plan. Itís no good having a resilient internet connection if you lose power for a day, or canít access your building for whatever reason. Business continuity needs to look at resiliency as well as access and staffing concerns, not just well managed, business grade internet connections.

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