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Standard User Had
(newbie) Tue 29-Oct-13 09:39:43
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Second fibre connection for redundancy


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We currently have BT infinity business fibre and I wanted to add a second line for failover. Can anyone recommend a second provider that would be suitable for this?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 29-Oct-13 11:53:17
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: Had] [link to this post]
 
If Zen has a POP on your GEA exchange then their fibre products would use less of the same network and improve redundancy at little cost.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/zen.html

Another option is a LLU provider such as TalkTalk Business http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/talktalk-business....

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User GMAN98
(experienced) Tue 29-Oct-13 12:28:58
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: Had] [link to this post]
 
Please bear in mind a second connection will very likely just be another pair from your existing cable and go back to the same cab and exchange so it's not going to be that redundant really


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Standard User Had
(newbie) Tue 29-Oct-13 13:16:13
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: Had] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the responses. I was thinking it might not give a great level of redundancy. Maybe its best just to have a 3g connection in case of emergencies. Our critical use of the internet doesnt require a lot of bandwidth. Then next year I can look into leased lines.
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Tue 29-Oct-13 14:26:31
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: Had] [link to this post]
 
Could there be a similar problem, with the Leased Lines being pairs in the same cable?

Probably 3G is your safer solution, as long as you test it occasionally.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 29-Oct-13 14:40:17
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
It would make more sense to take an ADSL line as the second line than another FTTC line. There would still be single points of failure with the wiring, but, unlike with FTTC, there would be no common active equipment back to the exchange. As MrSaffron says, it would make more sense for the original poster to use a LLU provider to avoid the BT Wholesale backhaul used by BT Retail.

MrSaffron mentioned Zen, who use their backhaul for FTTC in those exchanges where they have presence. Based on a thread in the Zen forums, I believe Zen have now started to use their MSANs in the exchanges where they have presence to provide ADSL2+ service. I've asked for clarification of what is happening, but that post has not yet been answered.


Mobile broadband is a possibility, especially if the FTTC service is reliable and the need for backup is intermittent.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 29-Oct-13 14:51:22
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: Had] [link to this post]
 
Ensuring two leased lines follow diverse routing generally makes them a lot more expensive.

If 3G/4G can provide the worst case backup then it sounds like you are some way from the need for full leased line redundancy.

If you can get FTTC now, then FTTP on Demand in a year or so while not a leased line specification will avoid cabinet power issues and if all underground in your area fairly weather proof.

Plenty of businesses keep one of several types of connection e.g.

FTTC
ADSL2+ via different provider
Mobile dongles across the various networks

The advantage with dongles is you can potentially relocate office and you can get fixed IP on mobile SIM's
http://www.aaisp.co.uk/telecoms-mobile-data.html making it easy enough to firewall access to cloud based resources.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User GMAN98
(experienced) Tue 29-Oct-13 15:10:46
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Unless it was copper EFM it wouldn't use the same pairs no. A new Ethernet leased line (with the exception of EFM) would be a new physical circuit.
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Tue 29-Oct-13 15:23:11
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
But wouldn't they pass through the same ducts etc, to get back to the Exchange and onwards?

Thus putting them at the same major risks such as happened yesterday.
Standard User GMAN98
(experienced) Tue 29-Oct-13 16:19:34
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Could do yes, the leased line might not go back to the same exchange/PoP tho, all depends.

That is why the proper diverse options like Secure/Secure+ are so expensive, to guarantee (as much as possible) proper diversity
Standard User iand
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 31-Oct-13 18:08:21
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: Had] [link to this post]
 
Depending on what you were trying to use, what about satellite broadband?

It does come at a bit of a cost, but its obviously not connected to the current service you are getting in any way.

IanD
Standard User kitcat
(committed) Thu 31-Oct-13 22:50:00
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: Had] [link to this post]
 
If your exchange is not the headend for the FTTC, any DSL from the exchange will give you a level of resilience to electronic failure as well as Cab to Headend fibre failures.

Nothing apart from an expensive fibre resilient product will give you resilience from premises to the cab.

Mobile may give some resilience but it too is likely to use the same exchange and backhaul as the headend kit. ( Unless you are in an area where the mobile uses Virgin backhaul and use that network.)

Summary is the amount of resilience depends on the detail of the area you live in.
If you tell the exchange area others will be able to give better answers.
Standard User unhappyaoluser
(regular) Wed 22-Jan-14 17:39:29
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: Had] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Had:
We currently have BT infinity business fibre and I wanted to add a second line for failover. Can anyone recommend a second provider that would be suitable for this?


Have been really pleased with Entanet through Vivaciti.
Standard User loadbang
(regular) Thu 22-Sep-16 21:08:00
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
If 3G/4G can provide the worst case backup then it sounds like you are some way from the need for full leased line redundancy.
Just to be a little careful here, many phone operators use BT backhaul as well.

We experienced an outage in Birmingham, event taking out EFM and leased BT fibre. Critical systems had a failover of 3G/4G, we found EE and Three also use BT. The only option we can think of is Virgin Media, but that's a 18 month lead time for install just like a BT leased line. May install microwave to shoot over 10km to a Virgin Media for a few customers.

Edited by loadbang (Thu 22-Sep-16 21:12:39)

Standard User 10forcash
(learned) Thu 22-Sep-16 23:19:15
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: Had] [link to this post]
 
I assume you're also looking into a second electricity source as well? If an internet connection is all-important, its essential that you look at all factors that may affect it, not just the obvious ones.
So, once you have your off-site backups, mirror site, replacement staff and hardware sorted, all you need to ensure is that the remaining staff travel by separate means to your backup site and you're sorted!
It's really all about risk assessment.
Standard User Adduxi
(newbie) Fri 23-Sep-16 09:00:24
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Re: Second fibre connection for redundancy


[re: Had] [link to this post]
 
I'm presuming Virgin cable is not an option?
I use both BT and Virgin and have had no issues with this setup.
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