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Standard User j314
(learned) Wed 14-Feb-18 01:58:42
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(Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[link to this post]
 
I work from home (sole trader); I have FTTP right now but plan to move. Target address is not 100% certain yet but is very likely to have both decent Openreach FTTC and Virgin HFC available. I don't need a static IP so the current issues surrounding that don't apply to me.

Pros for Virgin/HFC:
* 300/350Mbit down
* 12 hour fix time available at a good price (this seems like quite a big deal to me)

Either/or:
* Both are 20Mbit up

Pros for Openreach/VDSL:
* Latency likely to be lower and more stable
* Does not suffer from localised oversubscription/peak time congestion in quite the same way Virgin apparently does

Which would you go for in my place?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 14-Feb-18 12:20:02
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: j314] [link to this post]
 
As someone who works from home, one of each.

But if moving today I would make a FTTP property the priority when searching

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User j314
(learned) Wed 14-Feb-18 14:10:14
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Both good points! Would still be interested in preferences for one over the other though (I would have a 3G/LTE backup).


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 14-Feb-18 14:27:54
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: j314] [link to this post]
 
If you download large amounts of data then the Virgin Media
If you take the fastest Virgin option, then upload should be similar to FTTC.
FTTC a lot will depend on the location, i.e. speeds possible
Cable a lot will depend on the location i.e. congestion levels and the hours of business

Best advise order both for install as soon as possible in new property and run both for a while before making a decision on what they give you. I'd be tempted to leave both in place, since the fall back to 3G/4G is usually a lot more painful than flipping between fixed line services in the same premise and leave the 3G/4G to the powercut at premises scenario

Two connections also means you can do things like massive multi GB uploads on one line, leaving the other free for all the day to day business. Or an important Skye video call will not pixelate due to a large email arriving

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User dewi
(regular) Wed 14-Feb-18 15:39:37
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: j314] [link to this post]
 
When I ran a small business, I started with a Virgin Business fibre connection provided by my landlord. I found the throughput to be variable and I didnít find their technical support to be of much use. When I had a problem, the first question they asked was which router I was using. When I told them I had a SonicWall firewall appliance (necessary to set up a VPN connection to our other offices), they told me they didnít support that device and refused to discuss the problem any further. I thought this was pretty poor for a business service.

When FTTC became available, I switched to Zen. I found their service much more consistent and their technical support was excellent. When I had a problem, they told me they didnít directly support SonicWall, but if I knew my way around the GUI, theyíd tell me which settings to check.

The 12 hour fix time is well worth having. I paid for Critical Care from Zen. One day, I got into the office to find the Internet was down. I phoned Zen technical support. They diagnosed a fault between my premises and the exchange, phoned Openreach, and told me that an Openreach appointment had been made for the next day. I pointed out I had Critical Care. The tech support person apologised, phoned Openreach back, and told me that an Openreach engineer was on his way, and would be with me within an hour.

Given the choice between 350 Mbps Virgin fibre or 80 Mbps FTTC, Iíd probably risk Virgin for home use. For business use, Iíd got for FTTC from someone like Zen or AAISP every time.

Having got used to FTTP at home, Iíd be reluctant to move anywhere that didnít have FTTP!
Standard User TribeTelecom
(newbie) Wed 11-Apr-18 09:43:16
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: j314] [link to this post]
 
One of each seems a little excessive for an @ home worker.
What's the advantage?
And is it worth the added expense.

Mobile | Fixed | Data
Tribe Telecom
Standard User Sandgrounder
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Apr-18 10:49:58
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: TribeTelecom] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TribeTelecom:
One of each seems a little excessive for an @ home worker.
What's the advantage?
And is it worth the added expense.
The advantages are stated above.

And yes, it is worth the expense for anyone who needs an always-on connection.



Line One:- Zen Fibre 1 - DrayTek Vigor 2860ac
Line Two:- Andrews and Arnold - DrayTek Vigor 130 Modem
Standard User markieb
(newbie) Wed 11-Apr-18 12:38:32
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: j314] [link to this post]
 
Take it from someone who has had Virgin Cable Business 350/20 for just over a year.
Stay well away from their fixed IP option.....It's HORRIBLE and getting worse.
The supposed recent fixes released for this appaling service seems to have made things even worse.
Others who have dropped the fixed IP option on their lines claim the line reliability is like day and night after.
Their fixed IP kills your speed, causes timeouts on browsing and the latency sucks, and single thread speed tests are normally areound half the line speed for me.
My 80/20 FTTC out performs it hands down and has actually had to become my main connection because the Virgin is so unreliable.
Standard User DanHC
(newbie) Wed 11-Apr-18 18:10:30
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: dewi] [link to this post]
 
Another advocate for being a Zen customer.. 8 years and no issues with their FTTC service, one of my pals/ex colleagues also lives in my road also is a Zen customer, same experiences, solid, reliable and decent service.. I WFH quite regularly as an IT engineer/techy, wouldn't swap Zen for anything else, not even VM business. i don't exceed my AUP and 45down/16 up is fine for me.. Also have other pals i've recommended to use Zen, never an issue.

In reply to a post by dewi:
When I ran a small business, I started with a Virgin Business fibre connection provided by my landlord. I found the throughput to be variable and I didnít find their technical support to be of much use. When I had a problem, the first question they asked was which router I was using. When I told them I had a SonicWall firewall appliance (necessary to set up a VPN connection to our other offices), they told me they didnít support that device and refused to discuss the problem any further. I thought this was pretty poor for a business service.

When FTTC became available, I switched to Zen. I found their service much more consistent and their technical support was excellent. When I had a problem, they told me they didnít directly support SonicWall, but if I knew my way around the GUI, theyíd tell me which settings to check.

The 12 hour fix time is well worth having. I paid for Critical Care from Zen. One day, I got into the office to find the Internet was down. I phoned Zen technical support. They diagnosed a fault between my premises and the exchange, phoned Openreach, and told me that an Openreach appointment had been made for the next day. I pointed out I had Critical Care. The tech support person apologised, phoned Openreach back, and told me that an Openreach engineer was on his way, and would be with me within an hour.

Given the choice between 350 Mbps Virgin fibre or 80 Mbps FTTC, Iíd probably risk Virgin for home use. For business use, Iíd got for FTTC from someone like Zen or AAISP every time.

Having got used to FTTP at home, Iíd be reluctant to move anywhere that didnít have FTTP!
Standard User Sandgrounder
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-Apr-18 18:49:39
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: DanHC] [link to this post]
 
My Zen FTTC connection has never been in any doubt. It just works. smile

But, my second (A&A) line has been giving me some trouble, so I was thinking about swapping it for a VM business service.

However, I need a fixed IP address. So, after reading the comments above (and elswhere), it seems like I should stay well away from VM..



Line One:- Zen Fibre 1 - DrayTek Vigor 2860ac
Line Two:- Andrews and Arnold - DrayTek Vigor 130 Modem
Standard User DanHC
(newbie) Thu 12-Apr-18 12:06:21
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: Sandgrounder] [link to this post]
 
I happened to be sat next to the guy who runs A&A, last summer when I was commuting into London, he seemed to be a rather pleasant guy..

In reply to a post by Sandgrounder:
My Zen FTTC connection has never been in any doubt. It just works. smile

But, my second (A&A) line has been giving me some trouble, so I was thinking about swapping it for a VM business service.

However, I need a fixed IP address. So, after reading the comments above (and elswhere), it seems like I should stay well away from VM..
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 06-May-18 16:18:53
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: j314] [link to this post]
 
I had Virgin and Talk Talk business FTTC for a while - Virgin went bad in my area - but the FTTC was great so I dumped Virgin - but now they have sorted my area out I still have a backup FTTC line but it gets used much much less than Virgin

Granted I can do (and have done) insane amounts of data on it - and I dread to think what someone on 350mbps could pull in a month, but having both is good should one go down.

Even if it's a cheapo ADSL line - you will be glad you have a second line as you'll need it when you least expect it!
Standard User Adduxi
(newbie) Sun 06-May-18 16:35:50
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: j314] [link to this post]
 
I also use VM and BT for resilience when working from home. It has saved my bacon several times when VM has been offline. I use the Draytek Vigor 2860 Dual WAN router and it's been splendid. The times VM went offline, I didn't even notice. When using VPN into work, it's pretty much seamless and just works.
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 06-May-18 18:40:15
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: Adduxi] [link to this post]
 
I always thought a VPN connection would drop in that situation - but this router does sound good if it keeps it all going smile
Standard User pantone
(learned) Mon 07-May-18 13:12:16
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: j314] [link to this post]
 
My wife and I both worked from home with Virgin's 50, then 100, then 200Mbs consumer (ie not Business) line. It has consistently been faster than advertised, currently 218 down, 12.8 up. We stopped measuring in Mbps and moved to MBs which averages around 26 to 30. We are in the centre of Worthing surrounded by many other Virgin users.

As designers we download and send massive files around the world, a complete book may be in the region of 35GB. We used to run in-house FTP server over dynamic IP when needed until WeTransfer made this unnecessary. At the same time there might be three or four iPhones, a few tablets and maybe a TV or two sharing the line. Apart from the occasional iPlayer buffering glitch at night time when the FA cup or similar is on, we consistently get maximum speed. We haven't needed customer support and have had various routers connected via Cat5 gigabit ethernet, some with drives attached. Our internal powerline network is also attached with wireless access points and CCTV. None slow down our access.

Which is completely different from our experience with BT based services (and C&W) which seldom got more than half advertised speed, mostly much less.
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 07-May-18 14:54:45
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: pantone] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by pantone:
My wife and I both worked from home with Virgin's 50, then 100, then 200Mbs consumer (ie not Business) line. It has consistently been faster than advertised, currently 218 down, 12.8 up. We stopped measuring in Mbps and moved to MBs which averages around 26 to 30. We are in the centre of Worthing surrounded by many other Virgin users.

As designers we download and send massive files around the world, a complete book may be in the region of 35GB. We used to run in-house FTP server over dynamic IP when needed until WeTransfer made this unnecessary. At the same time there might be three or four iPhones, a few tablets and maybe a TV or two sharing the line. Apart from the occasional iPlayer buffering glitch at night time when the FA cup or similar is on, we consistently get maximum speed. We haven't needed customer support and have had various routers connected via Cat5 gigabit ethernet, some with drives attached. Our internal powerline network is also attached with wireless access points and CCTV. None slow down our access.

Which is completely different from our experience with BT based services (and C&W) which seldom got more than half advertised speed, mostly much less.


That's all great but just remember the day it foes down and you lose business - you are entitled to £0 as running s business on a res line is against their TOS
Standard User pantone
(learned) Mon 07-May-18 15:18:15
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
That's all great but just remember the day it foes down and you lose business - you are entitled to £0 as running s business on a res line is against their TOS


It's never gone down in all the years we've been with Virgin. Unlike BT which was a perpetual hassle. We had an engineer virtually living with us for a week while he tried to find where the faults were. Always with BT and never in-house.

Before we switched to Virgin I asked for an engineer to visit to show exactly where they would route the cable, test the local service and to discuss Business vs Consumer. It was he who suggested that we wouldn't need Business service as it is exactly the same, all you pay for is the insurance Ė which we have never needed. But that is the nature of insurance, basically you are gambling, you pay your money and take your choice. In our case it has saved us a bundle.
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 25-May-18 19:55:25
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: j314] [link to this post]
 
Have you seen this deal? I nearly fell off my seat! I am calling up Monday to change to it - I already have 350mbps and it's fantastic!

https://www.virginmediabusiness.co.uk/connectivity/i...

That's [censored] amazing and might suit you down to the ground!
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 29-May-18 09:25:08
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
Just in case people don't notice they are business prices and exclude VAT (at least as far as I can tell).
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 29-May-18 11:10:59
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: j314] [link to this post]
 
Do you need to send large amounts of data with any regularity?

If you do maybe look into whether G.fast is going to be arriving at the new address. VM seem to have lost some interest in increasing their own upload speeds.
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 31-May-18 20:49:20
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
Just in case people don't notice they are business prices and exclude VAT (at least as far as I can tell).


Ah yes - thanks for pointing that out - it sipped my mind.. It's about £84 including VAT and it comes with 32GB a month with rollover (and uses EE) - pretty cool
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 06-Aug-18 02:37:35
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 23Prince:
I always thought a VPN connection would drop in that situation - but this router does sound good if it keeps it all going smile
You set up two VPNs to run constantly, one via each telecoms provider, and use policy based routing to pass traffic through the tunnels in order of priority. If the main VPN route goes down, the transition to the less preferred VPN is seamless.

You can also use both VPNs to route simultaneously and load balance traffic between them. If one goes down, the link just gets slower.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs

Edited by caffn8me (Mon 06-Aug-18 02:41:36)

Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 06-Aug-18 12:21:29
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Re: (Working from home) Virgin Business vs FTTC?


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
That'a fair enough and thanks for the explanation - interesting smile

I\ve still got VM business and swapped the res VM for a AAISP line - £129 a month and I can still bond them together.

I found that with VM and VMB you can still stream and use the web when someone is uploading - handy if needed but I use the AA line now for all uploads.

to the OP if you have still not sorted it - VMB and especially the vroom 3 (or plus if you need a mobile) if you can get it is a fantastic offering. FTTC backup always worth it or even ADSL if you need a backup at a lower cost.

talktalk business are still doing theirs free subject to line rental.
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