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Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 23-Dec-15 23:44:57
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Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[link to this post]
 
Win 10 doesn't have one. Is there one?

It seems such a simple program: just loop thro' the pictures in a single folder or run a slideshoe thereof. I have it on XP but it seems not to be an executable but an integral part of Windows Explorer.

Can anyone recommend a replacement?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User zaggie
(newbie) Thu 24-Dec-15 00:14:08
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Windows Photo Viewer as used in Windows 7 is still there in Windows 10.

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/14312-windows-pho...

or

http://www.askvg.com/tip-restoring-windows-photo-vie...

Edited by zaggie (Thu 24-Dec-15 00:28:29)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Dec-15 01:24:03
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zaggie] [link to this post]
 
Thanks very much. Just the ticket & so simple.

It was in Win 10 all the while. Why couldn't MS offer it at least as an option? Their Photo app is so weak. It can't even go thro' a set of photos back & forth.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC


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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Dec-15 06:44:12
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Most of these so-called modern apps on Windows 10 is rubbish, when I was using ten I replaced them all with my normal ones. some of them I use is getting on, but they do the job.
Even the calculator is awful, i never did find one that looked like the one that is in use in Windows 7 and 8.


Yes, the picture and fax viewer is in Windows 10 and yes it is a shame MS have hidden it, i suppose they want us all to use their modern apps.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

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Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Dec-15 09:54:41
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
Even the calculator is awful, i never did find one that looked like the one that is in use in Windows 7 and 8.

The "classic" calculator can be downloaded from Microsoft: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.asp...

Oliver.

Edited by Oliver341 (Thu 24-Dec-15 09:58:02)

Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 24-Dec-15 19:35:58
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
Even the calculator is awful, i never did find one that looked like the one that is in use in Windows 7 and 8.

The "classic" calculator can be downloaded from Microsoft: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.asp...


cheers, I will stick that in my bookmarks just in case I decide at some point to go back to Windows 10.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 24-Dec-15 22:25:24
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
It's not, actually.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 24-Dec-15 23:14:53
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
The "classic" calculator is not so good, IMO, as the native Windows 10 one. I'm talking here of function rather than appearance, which matters not one whit to me.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 25-Dec-15 09:35:16
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
It's not, actually.


It is not what?

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 25-Dec-15 09:36:55
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
The "classic" calculator is not so good, IMO, as the native Windows 10 one. I'm talking here of function rather than appearance, which matters not one whit to me.


I don't use it that often anyway, I have a large Casio one on my desk that I normally use, but now and again it gets misplaced.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 25-Dec-15 11:32:40
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
It's not the calculator from Win 7 or Win 8.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 26-Dec-15 22:12:38
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
The "classic" calculator is not so good, IMO, as the native Windows 10 one. I'm talking here of function rather than appearance, which matters not one whit to me.

I agree, the W10 calculator has a lot of nice functions. Personally though, the metro super-sized touch button look does grate a bit with me.

Oliver.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Sat 26-Dec-15 22:34:33
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
Personally though, the metro super-sized touch button look does grate a bit with me.
This seems to be the trend in UI design. OS X has gone for a very similar look, steering away from the 3D elements that we were used to and going back to a flat design. It certainly has the advantage of making the interface more responsive.

I think it's really just a matter of getting used to it. I'm beginning to prefer the flat designs to the older ones.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 26-Dec-15 22:48:48
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
This seems to be the trend in UI design. OS X has gone for a very similar look, steering away from the 3D elements that we were used to and going back to a flat design. It certainly has the advantage of making the interface more responsive.

Flat design is one thing. But when the mouse cursor fits 15 times over into one button on the calculator, the sizing issue becomes ridiculous.

Oliver.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Sun 27-Dec-15 06:57:26
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
I'm afraid I don't understand your comment. You can make the calculator any size you wish.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 10:01:19
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
It's not the calculator from Win 7 or Win 8.


I had a better look at the site and noticed, thanks

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 10:03:50
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
This seems to be the trend in UI design. OS X has gone for a very similar look, steering away from the 3D elements that we were used to and going back to a flat design. It certainly has the advantage of making the interface more responsive.

Flat design is one thing. But when the mouse cursor fits 15 times over into one button on the calculator, the sizing issue becomes ridiculous.


it is meant for touch screens, as we all have touch screens these days, so I have been told by the Halifax when I complained about the new look online banking site.
If I want to use online banking on my phone then I use a App, I do not need a redesign of the online banking website.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Sun 27-Dec-15 10:26:29
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
This is completely incorrect. Windows 10 is designed to work well on both normal PCs and tablets with touch screens. You can switch between the two. And with one of the modern PCs that is designed to act as laptop and tablet Windows 10 will automatically switch between the two when you fold the keyboard back or detach it.

The Windows 10 calculator acts as a normal application if you are not running in tablet mode; it can be resized just like any other application and has more functionality than the calculator supplied with previous versions of Windows; it is simply a better product. In tablet mode the calculator will, by default be full screen. But, like all full-screen apps it can be reduced in size to run alongside other apps.

I'm afraid that a lot of the comments that I see about Windows 10 clearly come from people who have never used it, or have used it once and thrown up their hands in despair. You must expect a new version of an OS to differ from previous ones. If you are unable to get your head around that, and can't spend a few days learning new features, just stick with the previous version but don't spread untruths.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 12:09:43
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
I was not on about Windows 10 as such, I am on about the way things are going, websites being designed for touch screens, but to be honest, Windows 10 apps are made more for touch screens.
As for using Windows 10 I was using it for months before it was launched and a couple of months after so I know how it works and I know it works ok on non-touch screen machines. As for working well, that is another thing.

i know the Windows 10 calculator acts as a normal app, well a normal modern app and can be resized, but it still looks awful and even resized the buttons are larger than they should be.
I just prefer the original one, I do not need an all singing all dancing one, just a basic one.

windows 10 Calc, compared to the look of the original one here. No comparison, the old one looks much better.

I found a why to get it on Windows 10via this site.

That is when/if i eventually go back to windows 10

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Sun 27-Dec-15 12:20:34
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
to be honest, Windows 10 apps are made more for touch screens.
That is not being honest. It may have true to a certain extent for Windows 8 and, to a lesser extent, Windows 8.1 but the whole programming model has changed in Windows 10. A well-written application will be adaptive depending upon the hardware that it is running on and the mode that hardware is running in.

This silly discussion about the calculator is a perfect example. It works just fine as either a tablet application with a touch screen or a conventional application; and it works just as well on a phone. It doesn't have overly large buttons, and it does not need a touch-screen device to attain full functionality. As I said before, it is a much better product than the calculator in previous versions of Windows.

All this rubbish about "Windows 10 is designed for touch screens/tablets/phones" is just pure ignorance. It certainly is designed to work well on such devices but it also works well on conventional desktops. Apple would give their back teeth to produce a single OS like this that works so well across the full range of devices instead of their disparate OSs.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 12:38:08
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
I'm afraid I don't understand your comment. You can make the calculator any size you wish.

Thanks, I had forgot about resizing metro app windows since I don't use them, that does certainly help matters. I do prefer the overall design of the W7/8 calculators though, and would have preferred Microsoft to include a desktop calc app as well as the metro app.

Oliver.

Edited by Oliver341 (Sun 27-Dec-15 12:38:52)

Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 13:42:58
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
Windows 8 and 8.1 was a right mess in the UI part to be honest, no one knew what it wanted to be, far better once the start screen was replaced with a start menu, I now find Windows 8.1 usable, mainly because most of the modern apps stay away, ok you need to make files default to different apps, like audio to media player instead of what ever MS wants us to use, but that is easy sorted, not that I use media player.

I never said that Windows 10 did not work on conventional desktops or laptops for that matter, but it is very modern app orientated and they seem to pop up when you don't want them, even getting software as default is not as easy on 10 as it is on Windows 8 or below.
Take your browser, go into your browser settings and set it to default, you will find it will not do it, instead it may pop up a Windows 10 setting dialogue box, in which you can change it or it may just pop up a notice telling you to go to choose default app settings.

Then when you do get things all nice and sorted Ms does a big update and muck it all up again so you have to start all over again.

The way Windows 10 uses Modern apps is worse than Windows 8.1, at least with 8.1 they was on a separate screen. Modern apps are for touch screen, that is why they are so clunky.

I know the Calculator works on touch screen or with a mouse and pointer, but it just don't look nice and it is only a better product if you use all the new functions.

I do not think it will take long for Apple to follow Windows, OS X is getting that way now, I expect Apple is working on a OS to work on phones and and their desktops/laptops.

MS had to do something to up their game, since their mobile phones have not really done very well, so I think Windows 10 is the last ditch attempt to get people to go for Windows based tablets and phones.

I tried a Windows phone yesterday, while I have used one for a few mins before, yesterday was the longest I have had a play with one, it was a windows 8.1 and not 10, but they still more or less work the same way, Not something I would buy to be honest, I never liked the tile system on a computer or phone and to be honest the apps that are available are not that great. I do not know if the phone can be updated to Windows 10.
My mate who owns it have to get used to it now as it is the first smart phone he have had and I thought it may have been a easier one to get used to, but I have my doubts.

Sadly I have to stick with Windows on my P.C due to my hobby, but the type of software I use is getting better on Linux.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Sun 27-Dec-15 14:53:06
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
Take your browser, go into your browser settings and set it to default, you will find it will not do it, instead it may pop up a Windows 10 setting dialogue box, in which you can change it or it may just pop up a notice telling you to go to choose default app settings.
I don't understand what you mean. If you want to change settings for your browser you do it in the logical place - inside your browser. If you want to change default applications (browser, mail, etc.) you do it in the logical place - System Settings. How difficult is that? As I recall you used to use Control Panel in earlier versions of Windows to change system-wide defaults - it's the obvious place.
Then when you do get things all nice and sorted Ms does a big update and muck it all up again so you have to start all over again.
Untrue. I've updated Windows 10 several times - both the retail version and the preview builds - and each time it remembers my default settings. What's more, it remembers them across all my devices, which is very useful.
Modern apps are for touch screen, that is why they are so clunky.
Wrong, wrong, wrong! Modern apps are just for modern computers.
I know the Calculator works on touch screen or with a mouse and pointer, but it just don't look nice and it is only a better product if you use all the new functions.
I like to use my computer rather than worry too much about what it looks like. (Although actually, when you spend a little time getting used to it, the new style is much clearer than outdated 3D icons.) I agree that a program with new features is only better if you use the new features. You could quite happily use the Windows 3 calculator if you just want to work out 1 + 1.
I never liked the tile system on a computer or phone
I can only say that a lot of people like the idea of live tiles on the Start Screen so that you don't have to - for example - open your mail program to see what new mail you have, or open your weather app to see a summary of the weather forecast. But each to their own.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Sun 27-Dec-15 16:30:28
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
There are no Metro apps in Windows 10.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 17:10:11
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
I know I've said it many times before but, I really liked/like Windows 8/8.1, and I'd take it over Windows 7 any day. Windows 10 is an improvement on them both but my PC and work laptop both run Windows 8.1 (both non-touch) and I am more than happy with them, but would dread it if were Windows 7.

It is a learning curve a little bit but if you get to know it, it is just fine.

AAISP Home::1

Edited by Pipexer (Sun 27-Dec-15 17:10:56)

Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 17:49:01
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
There are no Metro apps in Windows 10.

What does Microsoft call apps like Calculator and Groove Music?

Oliver.
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 18:09:27
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
What does Microsoft call apps like Calculator and Groove Music?

I found the answer:

In the beginning there was the word, and the word was Metro. And then it was Windows 8-style. And then it was Modern. And then it was Windows Store. And then it was Universal. And today, Microsoft has decreed that henceforth these apps—which are all ultimately based on Windows Runtime—will be known as Windows apps.

Quite crazy really.

Oliver.
Standard User neo_wales
(newbie) Sun 27-Dec-15 18:18:38
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
I know I've said it many times before but, I really liked/like Windows 8/8.1, and I'd take it over Windows 7 any day. Windows 10 is an improvement on them both but my PC and work laptop both run Windows 8.1 (both non-touch) and I am more than happy with them, but would dread it if were Windows 7.

It is a learning curve a little bit but if you get to know it, it is just fine.


That sums it up for me, its a learning curve some people just won't take on. For me, I loved the whole new look when 8 launched and love the look of 10, its new, vibrant and different.

Robert
South Wales UK
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Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Sun 27-Dec-15 18:23:04
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
Windows Universal Applications - the point being that, unlike Metro, they scale from phone to tablet to desktop and adapt themselves to each. A Metro calculator would be full screen, as you described it, and would appear different to a Windows desktop application. On Windows 10 it's different. Although the same application, it adapts itself to the platform. So it appears full screen on your phone and tablet, but a normal resizeable app on your desktop. This is very different from Metro apps and is much more than a name change.

It requires a little thought when writing the app, although there is a rich API and development tools to help you, but it's very satisfying to write one piece of code that will run anywhere.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 20:35:48
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
I don't understand what you mean. If you want to change settings for your browser you do it in the logical place - inside your browser. If you want to change default applications (browser, mail, etc.) you do it in the logical place - System Settings. How difficult is that? As I recall you used to use Control Panel in earlier versions of Windows to change system-wide defaults - it's the obvious place.


When you are asked by your browser or any other bit of software if you want to make it default and you click yes then it should become default, you should not have to go through another dialogue box. I know you can make software default int he control panel on other versions of Windows, but how many people used that?


Untrue. I've updated Windows 10 several times - both the retail version and the preview builds - and each time it remembers my default settings. What's more, it remembers them across all my devices, which is very useful.


Sorry but it is true, a few times when I was on the insider program it reset my defaults and also the November update also did the same to other people. Look here for a start. MS pulled the update saying it was a fault, do I believe them? like hell; I do. It was a fault when they were caught out.

If I had multiple Windows 10 devices I am not sure if I would like my settings to be shared between them. According to my mates son, sharing the settings from one machine, mucked up another, I don't know how, he said it mucked up his desktop. Even so it is not a thing I would do, I have an Android phone and an Android tablet and they have both got separate accounts. My computer would always use a local account anyway.


Wrong, wrong, wrong! Modern apps are just for modern computers.


Really, so what would you call a modern computer?


I like to use my computer rather than worry too much about what it looks like. (Although actually, when you spend a little time getting used to it, the new style is much clearer than outdated 3D icons.)


I like my computer to be usable without a load of gimmicks. I like to get access to the software I want without some tiles being flashed at me. I also like to use my computer without the Os sticking up notices that are not needed. If looks was not important then why do MS keep changing it?
I like 3D icons.

I agree that a program with new features is only better if you use the new features. You could quite happily use the Windows 3 calculator if you just want to work out 1 + 1.


This is not just about the calculator, this is about the whole look of windows 10, the PDF reader is a modern app or whatever name MS decides to use as they change that as much as Bill Gates change his socks.
Everything seems to be in that style.


I can only say that a lot of people like the idea of live tiles on the Start Screen so that you don't have to - for example - open your mail program to see what new mail you have, or open your weather app to see a summary of the weather forecast. But each to their own.


But it is not on the start screen anymore unless you use it on a mobile phone, it is in a start menu, which you just bring up to launch the software you use. How many people really keep the startmenu in view just so they can see what the weather is going to be?
Windows 8 may have been a different thing, but I doubt even with that many people really looked at the live tiles.
I wonder how many people use the built in mail app on Windows 10, the few people I know that have changed to windows 10 only 2 does, the rest uses their normal browser which is normally chrome these days and access their Gmail.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 20:39:03
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
I know I've said it many times before but, I really liked/like Windows 8/8.1, and I'd take it over Windows 7 any day. Windows 10 is an improvement on them both but my PC and work laptop both run Windows 8.1 (both non-touch) and I am more than happy with them, but would dread it if were Windows 7.

It is a learning curve a little bit but if you get to know it, it is just fine.


I still prefer windows 7 to 8.1 in that it looks better and don't have the awful ribbon menu, But Windows 8 as a OS in that it is quicker and smoother is better than Windows 7 once you get a decent start menu and get rid of all the sidebars, like charms.

I see no advantage in updating to windows 10 as in real life use it is no faster than Windows 8.1.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 20:39:34
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
What does Microsoft call apps like Calculator and Groove Music?

I found the answer:

In the beginning there was the word, and the word was Metro. And then it was Windows 8-style. And then it was Modern. And then it was Windows Store. And then it was Universal. And today, Microsoft has decreed that henceforth these apps—which are all ultimately based on Windows Runtime—will be known as Windows apps.

Quite crazy really.


MS will one day decide to stick with a name,

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Sun 27-Dec-15 20:39:54
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
I think there is little point in continuing the conversation as we appear to be talking about two different operating systems. Luckily, I have experienced none of the problems that plague you.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Dec-15 22:35:52
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
I think there is little point in continuing the conversation as we appear to be talking about two different operating systems. Luckily, I have experienced none of the problems that plague you.


Really? i was mainly on about windows 10.

The problems I posted about have been posted in other articles, so it is not just me. Once the OS is up and running it works ok ap[artt from a couple of minor things, my scanner being one and Windows 10 keep wanting to update my sound card drivers and mucking it up is another.
But my main problem with 10 is the spying bit and the we want to know everything about you.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Sun 27-Dec-15 22:48:04
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
But my main problem with 10 is the spying bit and the we want to know everything about you.
It amuses me that people worry about this with Windows 10 but quite happily use Google (or any other search engine), Twitter, Facebook (or any other social media), email, etc. If you don't want people to know about you (even in the form of anonymous data) don't use the Internet. Period.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 28-Dec-15 08:42:06
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
It amuses me that people worry about this with Windows 10 but quite happily use Google (or any other search engine), Twitter, Facebook (or any other social media), email, etc. If you don't want people to know about you (even in the form of anonymous data) don't use the Internet. Period.



Social media you can put as much or as little info as you want on that, I don't use Google search engine or any of the normal ones. My email is not one of the free ones while it does get scanned for viruses and spam, that is the only thing it is scanned for, not to send me a load of adverts.


When you go on the net there are some ways to get out of the collection of data, you may not stop it all, but you can stop a fair bit.
Anyway that is a different thing, when you use a Os you do not expect the makers to spy on you, yes I know about android, but that is how Google makes their money and most people know that is how Android works. Windows is not supposed to be like Android, it is a Os for computers, MS do not need to know the amount of info or what I have on my computer, they are not supposed to be able to say what software can be and can't be on my computer.
While some things can be turned off, there is a lot that can only be switched off by going under the hood as to speak or getting software to do it and some of them can be iffy.

It seems like you like Microsoft so much that you can not see what they are like.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

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Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Mon 28-Dec-15 09:08:41
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
I think it is perfectly reasonable of Microsoft to want to know how their products are used, and on what hardware, so that they can tailor them to users' needs. I always opt in to their invitations to send them usage data.

Far more dangerous are those aspects of the Internet where you don't realise that your data/usage statistics are being collected. You really think that non-free email protects you or use of a search engine other than Google?

As for advertising, Microsoft has never sent me an unsolicited or obtrusive advertisement which is more than I can say for most web sites (this one included).
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 28-Dec-15 19:47:39
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
Why should MS want to know how we use their products, I have a cooker, should I tell the manufacture what I cook in there, I have a Hi-fi, why not send the info back to the manufacturer so they know what I am listening to?

Nothing to do with MS what I am using Windows for, I paid for the licence to use it, not to be spied on. I understand that a smart phone is different, and I can choose to just have a normal phone, the problem is there is software that will not run on other operating systems and MS have been a monopoly for so long the whole computer Os system market is mucked up.

If Ms do want to keep a eye on us, then they should make it easy to opt out and they don't do that with Windows and now they have also put their spying telemetry into Windows 8.1 and 7, thankfully there is software to get rid of it, but would it be nice of MS to ask first?

My email service protects me more than MS hotmail or whatever they decide to call it when Billy Gates change his socks and the search engine I use do not send my info back to Google or what other search engine they use.
Nothing is 100%, but I do try and block third party cookies and beacons on the net.

MS have already started advertising on Windows 10 via the start menu., their recommendation of apps, sure you can turn it off at the moment, but for how long and when will it become more than the recommendation of Apps?

I trust MS as much as I trust our government.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

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Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Mon 28-Dec-15 21:08:14
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
If the concept of a manufacturer wishing to improve their product is foreign to you there is nothing more to be said. It seems that you want to have your cake and eat it. You insist that Microsoft is a terrible company and yet you want to continue to use the products you despise. To me that seems just a little bit inconsistent.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 28-Dec-15 22:27:32
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
I have no problem with a manufacturer improving a product, but watching eveything you do is not the way to go about it, forcing downloads of drivers is not the way to go about it, being nosy about waht software you hasve on you computer is also not the way to go about it.

Older version of Windows used to ask you if you wanted to send a Error report if there was a problem and that the way it should have stayed.
Microsoft have changed, it used to be a company that sold an Operating system that did just that, but over the years this Os have become more invasive and more and more added which is not needed.
Why do we need Cortana? I can understand on a mobile phone, but not on a desktop. One drive? I don't even use it on windows 8.1, yet MS makes it difficult to get rid off on both Windows 8 and 10, more deeply intergrated on Windows 10.

This whole idea of a service is crazy, it is just a excuse for MS to put out software before it is ready and get the public to test it out. Windows 10 was not ready for the public at launch and I am not the only one that says so. This service thing is also a way to add more stuff that we may not want.

I have said before, I have got very little choice but to use Windows unless I pay a lot of money for a Apple machine, something that I am not prepared to do and the Os I do like which is Linux do not have the software available that will allow me to do what I want.
Also I have spent a lot of money on software for a windows based machine.
So I am stuck with Windows, but I am not going to let Ms force me into updating to Windows 10 until I am ready to, if I ever am ready.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 30-Dec-15 03:07:06
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
Its to do with portable devices, despite microsoft claiming they undoing that mistake they not really. The UI design is still portable device led.

Aero in vista and win7 is a work of art, abandoned so the phone users don't feel left out.

The other issue with the UI in win10 is it doesnt work well on smaller resolutions, win10 imo is designed for 1440p and upwards. On a 1050p screen UI elements look too big, and on 4:3 1024p they look huge with task manager at its default size nearly been full screen.

The flat UI is going back to 1995, where win95 had the same design.

Its the same reason web design has also took a huge step backwards, developers all like to think a single design can work on all devices without penalty but there is penalty for desktop users as website design has gone back a decade.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4

Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 30-Dec-15 03:09:43)

Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 30-Dec-15 09:45:37
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Very true.
It was not just Windows 10 I was a moan about for the design, as you said web design have gone backwards as well. Halifax online is awful, the changed it to make it easier for people with touch devices, surely then Halifax can produce a apop for those touch devices, after all there is not that many operating systems that runs on a touch device.

Vodafone website as well as putting in compulsory two stage log in which is a pain in the neck have also gone for the touch screen friendly look.

i do think maybe MS could have gave a choice on the UI, just like they did with Windows 7 and XP, in that you can go back classic. In 10 and 8 for that matter they could have made the flat look a default and allow people to change to aero.
Not having Aero is not a big problem for me, it is just the flat look that I don't like.

this pushing of Windows 10 onto people is going to get worse next year as it seems MS is not happy that some people are not updating. They said they want people to update to keep them safe, which we know is a load of rubbish.

MS knows they are annoying people with pushing Windows 10 and they don't care,m this is the kind of company they are, they will do anything they want and do not care about their customers, just like Intel.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 30-Dec-15 09:59:17
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Apps are much more expensive to develop/maintain than making a website responsive.

An app needs to be developed for at least 2 platforms, Android and Apple. You may also need to do Win 10 (possibly although market share is low). Apple have different formats of devices with different screen resolutions that need testing. Android is a wildly fragmented market with many different devices and the same app may not work well on all of them - more testing.

The more costly thing though is that once you have developed your app the devices don't stand still. The OS's have generally 1 major update a year and many minor ones. At each update there is a chance that the app might break and need fixes/dev work.

But, they will already have a website and making it responsive is a relatively small addition. For most requirements it is much cheaper and simpler to make a website "mobile friendly" than it is to make a website AND make apps.

Even with dev tools available it is no small task to make an app and it is costly. What they need to do is concentrate on ensuring that making a website responsive does not negatively impact its use on a "standard" desktop / laptop - something that many people currently are failing to do.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Wed 30-Dec-15 10:24:20
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
The simple fact is that, although skeuomorphism was useful when the WIMP paradigm was new, helping to relate objects on a computer to their real-world counterparts, most UI designers agree that it is now not only unnecessary but positively detrimental to usability. As always, those who are used to the old paradigm will complain when it changes; the newer and younger users accept that function is more important than form and prefer a simple design that doesn't get in the way.

'Twas ever thus.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 30-Dec-15 11:35:21
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
i understand what you are saying, I know someone who produces Apps, but with Halifax anyway they have already got apps out for Android, Windows and Iphone, so no need to change their flipping web site.
Even if the apps was not available, why not do what used to be done a few years back, make one site for mobile and one for normal use?

Adrian

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Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 05-Jan-16 10:10:21
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
"and can't spend a few days learning new features"

Surely technology is supposed to benefit the user in that it SHOULD be easier and quicker to use?

Can W10 users get more work done in their 8 hour day than W7 users?

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Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Tue 05-Jan-16 10:27:28
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
"and can't spend a few days learning new features"

Surely technology is supposed to benefit the user in that it SHOULD be easier and quicker to use?
No new system that you are unused to is going to be as easy as the system that you are used to until you have learnt how to use the new features. MS-DOS users had to spend time to learn how to use the new features in Windows 3; but once they had learnt them, the new OS was far more functional.
Can W10 users get more work done in their 8 hour day than W7 users?
Yes, I would think so. You might as well ask "Could Windows 3 users get more work done during their 8 hour day than MS-DOS users?". The answer, again, is "Yes" - and they could do things that users of the more primitive OS couldn't do at all. It's called "progress" and there are always Luddites who object to it. 'Twas ever thus.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 05-Jan-16 11:01:30
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
"Yes, I would think so."

Not a definitive answer. Will wait until the answers come flooding in.

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Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Tue 05-Jan-16 11:07:06
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
I can't be definitive, any more than anyone else can. I wouldn't be so arrogant as to think I could speak for others.

I find that I can certainly achieve more in a session with Windows 10 than I could with Windows 7; others may find they can achieve more using MS-DOS. As with everything, it all depends upon what you wish to achieve. Sometimes I can be more productive using one of my Linux or OS X installs.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-16 11:52:05
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
I would argue that for many users of the time for what PCs were being used for moving to Windows from DOS was a backwards step.

It is good to see what a document will look like on the screen but in the days of WordPerfect/WordStar etc on DOS there was little to get in the way of writing a document. When Windows came in it was slower to do virtually anything. People who were proficient with the old DOS apps could do things very quickly and efficiently. Windows was a benefit to casual users and made it easier for them to do things - power users could do things much faster in the older DOS versions.

As computers have become more and more powerful the processing power is now much more up to the task. But, a computer will always be faster if it doesn't have to display things - it is the user interface that slows things down and an OS that requires no user interface will always run much more efficiently if it is processing that is the goal.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Tue 05-Jan-16 12:15:00
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Having supported the transition from MS-DOS to Windows, I would have to disagree with that assessment, certainly in a work environment. Windows allowed for the easy configuration of printers and networking that was just not reasonably possible with MS-DOS. The idea of the OS managing hardware, rather than each program having to be individually configured to support, say, a printer was a major step for users and support staff. And, for power users, the ability to have their word processor and spreadsheet open at the same time was a revelation.

There was, of course, a learning curve - though nowhere near as steep as feared - but no one of our users would choose to go back to MS-DOS; rather the problem was keeping up with the demand from those clamouring for Windows.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-16 14:16:05
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
And I disagree. I was supporting PCs on MS-DOS and for an experienced user it was quicker. In a corporate environment we were mostly standardised on printers and it could be easier getting a print driver working in WordPerfect than in Windows.

I am not saying that there aren't things that are easier/quicker for a user to do in GUI environments. But, a non-GUI environment will process things more quickly and a proficient user could use DOS far more efficiently than Windows. I disagree that Windows is faster or more efficient but it is easier for most users.

Plus, if you look at things like MS Exchange a lot of the configuration of that is still done at a command line with a built in scripting language. The GUI gets used for standard tasks for "admins" but the serious stuff gets done using power shell.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Tue 05-Jan-16 14:58:06
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
You've got to wonder that Windows ever suceeded, haven't you, being more difficult to use than MS-DOS and demanding greater resources from the computer. I wonder what on earth motivated people? Crazy! wink
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-16 15:51:57
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
You've got to wonder that Windows ever suceeded, haven't you, being more difficult to use than MS-DOS and demanding greater resources from the computer. I wonder what on earth motivated people? Crazy! wink


Did you read what I posted? That is nothing like what I said.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 06-Jan-16 14:50:47
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In your esteemed opinion, what are the main benefits of W10 over W7 in and everyday working environment for creating letters, working on a spreadsheet, etc?

The machine might boot more quickly but in my experience.

1. Arrive at workplace and switch on PC.
2. Make drink. (while machine boots so faster booting superfluous)
3. Start working with PC and interact with others when required.

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 06-Jan-16 15:50:43
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
I have the same problem when people say to me to update from windows 8.1 to windows 10, I ask them what advantage is it to me and will it allow me to do things faster. I get the normal responce of it is have Cortana, it boots faster and runs faster and it have a start menu.

Cortana will not make any difference of how I use my computer, booting and running faster than Windows 8.1, if it is the difference will be minimal and I have a SSD so my machine boots in seconds anyway,
going through the bios screens take longer. I have a start menu on 8.1 and I don't like Windows 10 start menu so that would be replaced.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

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Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Wed 06-Jan-16 16:15:09
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Re: Windows Picture & Fax Viewer Replacement for Win 10?


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
The machine might boot more quickly.
Well, you've named one big advantage for a start (and then dismiss it, although it is important for a lot of people - I certainly don't want to go and make a cup of tea every time I restart the computer).

Windows 10, I find, is more responsive than 7, and it is easier to find applications on it. Cortana is a great improvement over previous search engines - assuming that you don't wear a tinfoil hat. Live tiles are great, allowing a quick view of weather forecast, news, new emails, etc., etc. without having to open an application. And, having got used to it, I far prefer the flat look to the skeuomorphism of Windows 7 and earlier.

It's just the entirety of little improvements like this that make for a more pleasant and easier experience. For me, personally, the fact that Windows 10 integrates so smoothly across a range of computers, tablets, and phones is a big plus. Not such a deal if you are an iPhone fan, but I like my Windows phone.

Plus, I've not managed to crash it or lock it up yet; it's easily the most stable version of Windows that I have ever used.
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