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  >> Wireless Broadband ISPs (not wireless ADSL routers)


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Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 09-Mar-12 14:14:15
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What next for WISPs


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With the ever expanding rollout of FTTX what will WISPs be doing to keep in check?

One very narrow minded example would be headline speeds. Fttc will be seeing limits increased and cabled areas are being upgraded.

I would much prefer a capable network be in place before any increased speeds are considered. Also prices for wisps are in some instances at a premium compared to current Fttc/cable.

Hope this generates a little discussion in this forum.
Standard User slimj
(member) Fri 09-Mar-12 18:05:03
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Faster speeds is the obvious one. I'd be more than happy with a 50mbit connection but I don't feel the need for speeds much faster than this at the moment. I currently have around 15-20mbit of bandwidth through VFast which is sufficient for downloads, gaming, and HD TV viewing between a few of us.

Reliability and low latency is probably the major thing though, if you can maintain the high speeds with low latency at the busiest times then I think WISPs are doing a good job. Improvements in wireless technology should also ensure speeds and reliability improve in time.

I think VFast are doing a great job at the moment. Yes I have had problems with the service but they do get fixed and thankfully the problems are few and far between. I think us folk living out in the sticks also have to bear in mind that we're using WISPs as we don't have any other choice for high speed internet - ADSL is slow and unreliable while FTTC is not likely to happen in our village (Manston) in the next few years!

VFast Wireless Broadband.
My Broadband Speed Test
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 09-Mar-12 19:47:25
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: slimj] [link to this post]
 
Why do they need to do any more?

Customers may want faster speeds, higher reliability and lower prices but a vast majority of WISPs cover people who have the option of the WISP (at a premium, with questionable reliability and really high prices), [censored] ADSL Max or 3g (if they get it).

They have as close to a monopoly as they can legally get and can offer whatever the hell they like and still people will be forced to use them.

Logically they could lay fibre themselves and use the inferior wireless products for the last mile and I believe this is what some of them are doing/have planned - this is in my opinion the best option for them.

Geoffrey England


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Standard User Michael_Chare
(committed) Sun 11-Mar-12 00:13:11
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
With the ever expanding rollout of FTTX what will WISPs be doing to keep in check?

I suspect that they can't compete and will therefore go broke. There was a local WISP not far from where I live. They now no longer exist propably because BT changed their policy and tried to connect everyone rather than rejecting customers where the signal loss was large.

Michael Chare
Standard User smurf46
(member) Sun 11-Mar-12 09:29:19
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Fixed wireless technology is improving too, and so is backhaul access. It's always filled gaps in the market - and the digital divide is as wide as ever, and probably widening. No currently available UK residential broadband technology gives you an absolute guarantee of your throughput speed as far as I'm aware - on all of them some people do much better than others - so there is always a gap to fill because of technological or geographical limitations, and the nature of the market is that people change providers regularly, and providers come and go. It was ever so.

I suspect that with the high level of publicity and forthcoming events most WISPs will be reporting a higher level of activity than ever. Whether it will continue into the longer term, who knows? You'll get a different answer from everyone, that is the nature of a local market.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Sun 11-Mar-12 20:50:28
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I disagree that WISP's need keeping in check.

After all they are offering higher speeds at comparable prices to ADSL services that don't deliver on their promise.

Headline speeds is one way to measure but it is not the best way. A better measure is average real throughput, off-peak and on-peak. What really matters is if things work as expected. For example can a customer stream iPlayer/netflix etc in HD on-peak? As long as the answer is yes than the service is working well and meeting the needs of most people.

Wireless is already capable of ~100Mbps headline and soon much more will be possible when 802.11ac products come to market. In reality as the capacity is shared between all users connecting to an AP it is not wise to advertise this maximum or even allow one customer to pull the total capacity.

I think in time WISP's will either start to roll out FTTH or get Fibre/ptp microwave to all masts and will continue to provide competitive services where BT/VM have no broadband capable network. This will happen in areas where they have the market share and BT/VM can't get a meaningful hold on the market.

The biggest competitors are likely to be mobile phone companies but they will deploy their networks to rural areas last.
Standard User darrenorbital
(learned) Mon 12-Mar-12 22:46:16
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
I disagree (for obvious reasons) . I feel that WISP's can compete, many of our customers are in Towns and Cities that already have FTTX, the service we offer can easily compete and as you will be aware, FTTC is still distance related to get decent speeds.

I think the price point is dependant alot on if the customer actually needs a landline at home, if they are happy to rely on a mobile phone and use voip for a landline then often a wisp package is cheaper.

We have trialed speeds upto 100mbit and it worked, with the new generation of wireless equipment that will be released soon, it will be a reality to deploy.

These days, with most new core repeater sites we install fibre backhaul and as such it is only the last mile thats actually wireless, if we were to play on words like certain other ISP's , we are providing "Fibre Optic Broadband" although we all know thats not the case hence we dont say it.

Regards
Darren
Standard User slimj
(member) Tue 13-Mar-12 11:50:15
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: darrenorbital] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by darrenorbital:
We have trialed speeds upto 100mbit and it worked, with the new generation of wireless equipment that will be released soon, it will be a reality to deploy.


This is interesting Darren, would this be a case of re-rolling out new equipment to each household again like when everyone was moved from the old 'So Broadband' network to the new Airmax gear?

From a logisitical point of view I can imagine you'd prefer to just roll out firmware updates that will allow for the faster speeds. With more users than ever on VFast I can imagine a rollout of new equipment would take a fair amount of time! smile

VFast Wireless Broadband.
My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by slimj (Tue 13-Mar-12 11:51:00)

Anonymous
(Unregistered)Tue 13-Mar-12 12:47:20
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: slimj] [link to this post]
 
The Nanostation Ms people have on VFast will support 100mbps, but the current Ubiquiti wireless links can't support much higher - so until there's better tech for the bit after the CPE it will be unviable.

A year or so ago my VFast connection was not limited and I was getting 80mbps in both directions, though often it'd "only" be 20-40. Even with the much higher speeds, you'd still have the same occasional problems where there would be abnormally high pings and bandwidth died for a day or so, but I suppose you must consider this technology is, I was going to say in it's infancy, but it's not, it's just less desirable to spend money on researching when fibre is seen as a more permanent solution.

I'd like to say my experience with VFast has been overall good, but honestly the amount of problems i've had over the years is an order of magnitude higher than the problems I would have had if I did not live in Kent and had access to decent ADSL/FTTx.

The price is still an issue - trying to explain to thrifty elderly relatives that it's good value for money when they can get much slower (due to their rural location) Sky or BT and get a bunch of extra stuff thrown in for the same money is very difficult.

How do you explain to someone that they should pay the VFast price + landline rental + TV when they could just get the entire thing through one supplier for less and with less hassle? Well I can tell you from experience that it's a very difficult thing to do.

The fact there's no usage limits is nice, though some of my neighbours and friends have had their bandwidth throttled because they were effecting other customers. This would probably not needed to have happened if the wireless links could handle more traffic though.

Ideally I would like to see these WISPs expand their fibre networks, running fibre to backhauls and links is absolutely the best thing to do right now, but considering how desperate some Kent residents are for reliable quality internet - why not approach farmers about supplying FTTH? You'd avoid the huge costs of road digging and would realistically be able to lay dual gigabit fibre cables to each premises without too much cost.

Why would you do that?

Whilst the initial outlay would be higher, you would be able to offer a truly unique service which wouldn't be subject to the inherent problems of the wireless last mile. The fibre would stay there and not need to be re blown unless something catastrophic happens like the cable being broken and you would even be able to resell the fibre if you so wish.

In summary;

Of the WISPs I know of, prices across the board are high, reliability isn't great and you don't get any of the added benefits you get with a conventional supplier. Upsides are that you are probably capable of higher speeds than the conventional things availiable to you. A while back when VFast was bad for all of our area for a month or so, we chipped in and one of us tried to get a BT connection to see if there was an alternative, but the connection couldn't sync, so we had to stay with VFast. Luckily things aren't so bad anymore, but I still would like the option of going elsewhere - competition might spur VFast on to provide a better service (and i'm not talking about headline speed, i'm talking about being able to deliver multiple people using the headline speed in an area).
Standard User smurf46
(member) Tue 13-Mar-12 13:42:53
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I get you've personally had an unhappy experience but there's a couple of other things I don't understand:
1. Why "should" the thrifty (or those with perhaps more sense than money) pay for a service they don't need or everything be at the same bargain basement price? It sounds like an old-fashioned (failed) socialism to me. If the mass market meets their needs or they're prepared to put up with it, then what's wrong with that?
2. DiY FTTP is exactly what the PIC B4RN are doing in the north. If it's so darned easy as you make it sound, then get on with it with your mates and the co-operative local landowners. You don't need to sit back and wait for a commercial company with all their overheads to do it for you - or if you insist there's BT.

I'm with one of those "poor relation" WISPs on a legacy product (with FTTC on my landline now too). Any you know what: the contended WISP service allows me to do everything I use the FTTC for, and it's more consistently reliable in uptime as it doesn't use the BTw backhaul, and gives me consistently higher upload speeds at a not-unusual 600m from the cab. The latency is about the same too. Yep I've had problems in the past and I got pretty frustrated, but with patience and quiet prodding it came good, and as I don't own and control my own ISP, I don't realistically think I could expect better. ADSL never came good on my line, and I could never get to the bottom of it, not that my ISP didn't try.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin
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