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Standard User Tox_Laximus
(regular) Sat 14-May-11 14:23:35
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Contention / Traffic shaping


[link to this post]
 
Noticed during peak times my connection speed half's from 6mb to 3mb.

Whether it is contention or shaping does not matter, what matters is for whatever reason zen now decide to do this and charge the same money while the customer gets half their connection.

Ringing them and letting them know your not someone to be messed with may get your speed back for a while or may not work at all.

At some point nearly all company's will 'try it on' and if they get caught out they blame it on tech fluff.

I did not expect zen to ever do something like this, very disappointed indeed...

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Edited by Tox_Laximus (Sat 14-May-11 14:27:11)

Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 14-May-11 14:44:56
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Whether it is contention or shaping does not matter, what matters is for whatever reason zen now decide to do this and charge the same money while the customer gets half their connection.

Perhaps it is your local exchange? Therefore a BT problem and not Zen's fault..

You should do a speedtest using the bt speedtest domain to see if that is also slow, which will point the finger at exchange contention.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(regular) Sat 14-May-11 15:00:20
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
I don't pay any money to BT, how can it be their fault?

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Standard User IamQ
(experienced) Sat 14-May-11 15:06:13
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
BT provide all the backhaul stuff from the exchange to Zen you service is dependant on BT. BT also provide the DSLAM/MSAN's that you connect to at the exchange.

Do the BT speed test and post the results along with your line stats from your router please so that other may be able to assist.

http://speedtester.bt.com/

Edited by IamQ (Sat 14-May-11 15:06:47)

Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Sat 14-May-11 15:13:07
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: IamQ] [link to this post]
 
Ok, oh wait a minute, what the hell am I paying zen for if I have to do all this work?

And installing that system hog/spyware/bloatware called java really necessary?

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Standard User IamQ
(experienced) Sat 14-May-11 15:20:20
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Ok, oh wait a minute, what the hell am I paying zen for if I have to do all this work?


Because like with Gas, and Water, and Electric & Telecoms in the UK there are several people offering the same backend services with different packages, prices and specs to suite people.

As for 'doing all this work' it's not much really - at minimum you run the speed test and report it out as a fault (If there is one) otherwise you post all the details I've said and allow other people to assist which may help when you come to raise a fault (or not depending what we find)

In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
And installing that system hog/spyware/bloatware called java really necessary?


I don't know if there is any way round that - I should point out that the speed test is the official test required in order to raise or have a fault recognised as both BT and the ISP (Zen in this case) have access to the test data.

The official BT site reports the details you/BT/ISP needs like you sync as reported by the exchange, your IPProfile and throughput.The other speedtest site only report how long/fast it is to download a file.

It's your call what you do - I'm only pointing out how it is and whats needed to help you.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 14-May-11 15:42:13
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Ok, oh wait a minute, what the hell am I paying zen for if I have to do all this work?

Like many things, you have to do some work yourself to get the fault diagnosed without expense/problems. When my car does not work properly, I diagnose it myself, then I can take it to a mechanic (if I choose) and tell them what the problem is. I can do the alternative which most people do is say "It doesn't work" and then pay extra for the mechanic to diagnose the issue.

Java isn't spyware, but you may have a point re bloatware.

I am sure if you ask Zen to send an engineer to the premises and diagnose the line fault they will, but at an expense.

What you need to do

1) Do a normal speedtest at thinkbroadband speed test
2) Do a speedtest at the BT speedtest domain
3) Alter router configuration to connect to BT speedtest domain
4) Do a speedtest at the BT speedtest domain

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btwperformancetest.htm

Analyse the results to discover where the contention is.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Sat 14-May-11 15:49:44
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Is it a BT wholesale connection? (is it using the BT back-haul network to reach Zen?)

I'll presume it is. I have the same problems during peak on my connection too. It's BT through and through. I know this, because some years ago now, the ops department (which I was in) of the company I worked for were invited in to BT's head office in London, so we could be shown around their ops department. The colourful screens where impressive, but there was one quote that the BT guy said to us all that I just had an internal chuckle to myself about:

'nobody is to know this, but during peak times, we apply traffic shaping to all our connections to even out the load across our entire network'

There you have it, official from the horses mouth.

To sum up, if you get any broadband connection supplied using the BT back-haul network, expect your traffic to be shaped. Expect it all the time, during peak periods at least. And expect never to reach the full speed on speed tests during peak times. It is not Zen's fault, it is BT. Period.

Your only option is to go with an LLU provider, or, some other different IP stream package/connection where the contention/shaping isn't as high. I was with Be for a while and that was blazing, all the time. I never saw a slow down on their network during the entire 2 years I was with them. Now I'm back on a BT connection, and I have to put up with their p*** poor network again. Gutted.

Now on <aaisp.net>
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Sat 14-May-11 15:53:04
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: IamQ] [link to this post]
 
Its contention at the exchange, so...

1. Can this be fixed?
2. If so, how long does it take?
3. How many phone calls will I need to make?
4. Will I need to contact ofcom?
4. How many tests will I have to run?
5. Will I have to install dodgey third party apps to run these tests?
6. Will it happen again?

I pay my provider (zen) money for line rent, calls and Internet, so its their responsibility to take care of everything up to the master socket, these providers have too many cracks to hide in and like to make us waste time by jumping though pointless hoops while they pocket the money from having more customers sharing bandwidth.

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Standard User IamQ
(experienced) Sat 14-May-11 16:04:54
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Its contention at the exchange, so...

1. Can this be fixed?
2. If so, how long does it take?
3. How many phone calls will I need to make?
4. Will I need to contact ofcom?
4. How many tests will I have to run?
5. Will I have to install dodgey third party apps to run these tests?
6. Will it happen again?

I pay my provider (zen) money for line rent, calls and Internet, so its their responsibility to take care of everything up to the master socket, these providers have too many cracks to hide in and like to make us waste time by jumping though pointless hoops while they pocket the money from having more customers sharing bandwidth.


1 - It depends what's wrong. It might be as simple as a faulty cable or a tree fouling the OHLE.
2 - Depends what the fault is. It might take 1 min to fix, it might take 1 week or more.
3 - 1 initial call to TS otherwise, don't know - it depends if you follow the advice given here.
4 - No
5 - Only if you class Java as one of those '3rd party dodgy apps'
6 - Maybe - it depends what's wrong.

In all the time its taken you in talking about the fault you could of run the tests and people could be on there way to helping you.

Either do what's required & call Zen TS today (they are open) and raise a fault at least, or contact CS Monday and get your MAC and try find another provider who will give you this golden end to end service you think your entitled to.. Just because you pay your line rent etc to Zen there are still things expected of the EU - the speed test is one of them.

I pay my electric bill to Southern but if I get an outage on the CP side of the connection its down to me to check my own fuses/breakers and not call Southern.
If I suffer an outage from the street I then raise that fault with UK Power Networks (as was EDF) and raise the fault with them (Even though I pay someone else) they they deal with the backhaul/street/distribution systems They come along and fix it, or provide a temp supply (in some special cases)

There are lots of people involved in xDSL delivery - BTWS, BTOR and the ISP each has there own layers to get through - but as an EU you only ever deal directly with your ISP. You do what they ask/expect/say and you get the fault progressed) You don't do what they ask/say/expect they *might* send an engineer at *your* cost and this could be anything from £135+ for a visit.

Also remember it's BT who run the bandwith in the exchange and backhaul cloud they may have oversubscribed links which will hurt everyone on a given node/MSAN/DSLAM/exchange.

There is only so far one can go in offering helpful assistence...

Edited by IamQ (Sat 14-May-11 16:07:07)

Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 14-May-11 16:22:52
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
1) It can be, but BT probably don't think it is worth fixing.
2) Until the situation gets worse and it falls below acceptable limits, and/or BT do upgrades anyway, or you get changed to Fibre.
3) Your speed falls within acceptable limits (set by BT), therefore you can complain to Zen as much as you like, and they can complain to BT, it is unlikely BT will do anything
4a) Ofcom wont care
4b) Usually you need to run 3 consecutive tests, but again, your speeds fall within the acceptable limits, so this arguably wont do anything
5) Presumably it requires Java, so yes.
6) Yes most likely.

You can try complaining to Zen but at 3Mbps I don't think they will entertain raising this with BT.

The best solution if you are frustrated is to simply go to a cheaper ISP, but you may then experience contention on the ISPs own network in addition to the contention that occurs on your exchange.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 14-May-11 16:27:36
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
'nobody is to know this, but during peak times, we apply traffic shaping to all our connections to even out the load across our entire network'

As much as I am not a fan of BT, this does not make sense. Why would applying shaping to "all connections" even out the load across the network? They may apply some technology to ensure that everyone is throttled equally but that is the idea of contention in the first place, they would not gain anything from throttling everyone down at peak times, they are better leaving it running at max capacity. Or are you saying BT shape particular bandwidth (such as p2p) to ensure that, for example, HTTP traffic is more stable.. I don't think BT have equipment in exchanges to do this.

Or am I misunderstanding you and the guy was referring to BT broadband itsself? In which case we know they shape bandwidth.

______________
Zen 8000 Active

Edited by Pipexer (Sat 14-May-11 16:29:27)

Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Sat 14-May-11 16:31:26
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: IamQ] [link to this post]
 
I'll ring um monday, if they even mention the word test I'll drop em like a sack of mouldy spuds.

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Standard User awoodland
(regular) Sat 14-May-11 16:38:14
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
I'll ring um monday, if they even mention the word test I'll drop em like a sack of mouldy spuds.


That sounds like a really well thought out, productive way of dealing with tech support and ensuring they're friendly and helpful towards you in return.

Edited by awoodland (Sat 14-May-11 16:38:57)

Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Sat 14-May-11 16:44:13
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: awoodland] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by awoodland:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
I'll ring um monday, if they even mention the word test I'll drop em like a sack of mouldy spuds.


That sounds like a really well thought out, productive way of dealing with tech support and ensuring they're friendly and helpful towards you in return.


LOL, actually I can get the a better deal at idet, and might be able to squeeze for a better deal in the process.

And I'm insulted that you don't think I have a plan B & C & D & E

laugh

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Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 14-May-11 16:51:22
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Very mature smirk

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 14-May-11 16:52:47
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: awoodland] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by awoodland:
That sounds like a really well thought out, productive way of dealing with tech support and ensuring they're friendly and helpful towards you in return.

Someone is obviously embarassed they did not know BT run and own his local exchange.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Sat 14-May-11 17:30:42
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
I can't remember the exact quote, but it was something like what I wrote.

I agree, contention should take care of it. I think you're probably right - they just shape particular types of traffic (so my original quote was misleading). And maybe he was talking about BT Broadband connections only (not BT wholesale connections connecting to other ISPs).

But I genuinely believe they have the capacity to shape their back-haul, if they so wish, to give certain classes of BT wholesale customer traffic priority over others (business users etc). It all uses the same infrastructure so there has to be some kind of priority/shaping going on to make sure business always gets more of the back-haul during peak times than residential. Or to just make sure everyone is getting a sub-average experience during busy times, and to keep everyone reasonably content.

In the OPs case though, I suspect it's more an exchange/contention issue.

Now on <aaisp.net>
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 14-May-11 17:46:51
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
But I genuinely believe they have the capacity to shape their back-haul, if they so wish, to give certain classes of BT wholesale customer traffic priority over others (business users etc). It all uses the same infrastructure so there has to be some kind of priority/shaping going on to make sure business always gets more of the back-haul during peak times than residential. Or to just make sure everyone is getting a sub-average experience during busy times, and to keep everyone reasonably content.

Good point. Pure speculation but I would imagine this is done more in the form of port-based QoS. For example, customers 1-100 are on a 25:1 service (it's 20:1 last time I looked but for simplicity), and customers 101-200 are on a 50:1 service. All customes have identical connections and are using 100% of their bandwidth. All customers are contended yet customers on 25:1 get 75% bandwidth between them and 50:1 customers 25% bandwidth between them. DPI equipment in every exchange would be quite expensive.

OR they are indeed equivilant but the business customers has more weight in their projections as to when an exchange needs upgrading and if the SLA/contention ratio is not met can request a VP upgrade sooner than residential customers.

My connection slows at certain peak periods to around 4Mbps from the consistent 7.5Mbps and while it is slightly annoying I know that there is no way in hell BT would take that issue seriously when there are exchanges which suffer far worse than this.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User knight01
(learned) Sat 14-May-11 21:14:49
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
I'll ring um monday, if they even mention the word test I'll drop em like a sack of mouldy spuds.


Good luck to your new ISP for having you as a customer. Before I came to Zen in 2006 I tried 2 of the worst ISP's who shaped and reduced the connection speed (Freeserve/Wanadoo and Plusnet).
Zen have been the most reliable, they have kept me informed if there was/is maintenance on the network and I'd rather pay a premium for a reliable service and connection than go to a cheap unreliable ISP.

------------------------------
ZeN 8000 Active
Standard User Spetznaz
(experienced) Sat 14-May-11 22:24:24
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
I very much doubt moving isp will help, I too am with a premium price isp (fast) and get exchange congestion issues at peak times, BT deny any problems of course though, but I know neighbours who are on lower priced isps and they get terrible speeds so basically you are stuck if BT wholesale are the only service provider on your exchange.

Your best option is to move to a LLU service with zen if LLU is available on your exchange. If not you are stumped like me and many others, its stinks I know, the USO should be set much higher to stop BT getting away with this nonsense... then we have ministers promising 25mbit to 90% in 2015 *sigh*
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Sun 15-May-11 00:25:20
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Spetznaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Spetznaz:
then we have ministers promising 25mbit to 90% in 2015 *sigh*


Hahahahahahahahahahaha .... hahahahahahahahahahahaha ... wahahahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahahahahahahaha

They will charge you for 25mbit but give you 0.2mbit and blame BT

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

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Standard User alewis
(experienced) Sun 15-May-11 12:15:32
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
So you expect them to diagnose the problem, by, what exactly? Remote telekinesis?

I know the individual I hope you get through to, and I really hope his answer is "I'm sorry, my crystal ball is a bit cloudy today".

of course they have to run a test, to determine if there is a problem. Times have moved on a bit since using chicken entrails and casting runes, and the angle of the dangle of the moon in the night sky.

A phrase James May might say comes to mind... "cock".

The views expressed here are mine alone, and do NOT reflect those of my employer, present or previous.
Standard User knight01
(learned) Sun 15-May-11 22:07:56
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
In reply to a post by Spetznaz:
then we have ministers promising 25mbit to 90% in 2015 *sigh*


Hahahahahahahahahahaha .... hahahahahahahahahahahaha ... wahahahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahahahahahahaha

They will charge you for 25mbit but give you 0.2mbit and blame BT

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha


Who do you think owns the Exchange, telephone cables under your street - the backbone of the telephone system on the country British Telecom (BT).

ISP's just "rent" space/bandwidth from BT. If BT's infrastructure can't cope with the new digital age, its not the ISP's fault.

Maybe you should try Sky broadband, they'll charge you for up to 20mbp and provide you with 56k speed and when you call they'll just say the same as any other ISP, BT is to blame. Their infrastructure cannot cope.

You need to start living in the real world and look out the window or go out once in awhile. Anyway I didn't know schools were in half term, maybe you should tell your parents they need to pay for higher internet speed, because you can't play online games with lag.

------------------------------
ZeN 8000 Active

Edited by knight01 (Sun 15-May-11 22:10:21)

Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Sun 15-May-11 23:20:37
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: knight01] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by knight01:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
In reply to a post by Spetznaz:
then we have ministers promising 25mbit to 90% in 2015 *sigh*


Hahahahahahahahahahaha .... hahahahahahahahahahahaha ... wahahahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahahahahahahaha

They will charge you for 25mbit but give you 0.2mbit and blame BT

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha


Who do you think owns the Exchange, telephone cables under your street - the backbone of the telephone system on the country British Telecom (BT).

ISP's just "rent" space/bandwidth from BT. If BT's infrastructure can't cope with the new digital age, its not the ISP's fault.

Maybe you should try Sky broadband, they'll charge you for up to 20mbp and provide you with 56k speed and when you call they'll just say the same as any other ISP, BT is to blame. Their infrastructure cannot cope.

You need to start living in the real world and look out the window or go out once in awhile. Anyway I didn't know schools were in half term, maybe you should tell your parents they need to pay for higher internet speed, because you can't play online games with lag.


Living in the real world requires constant complaining just to get what you paid for in the first place, been there with BT and won.

Businesses in this country are good to new customers and treat loyal customers like [censored], so it makes sense to migrate say every six months to take advantage of this.

It's been about 6 months since moving to zen, I'm an old customer in their eyes now and they are now taking liberties with my bandwidth so the new customers get a good speed and stay.

Some company's even have special departments just for fobbing people off, like BT support for instance.

So next is to migrate to idnet and when idnet start taking the [censored] in six months or so I'll migrate back to zen.

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Standard User gmoorc
(member) Mon 16-May-11 09:18:39
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
But I genuinely believe they have the capacity to shape their back-haul, if they so wish, to give certain classes of BT wholesale customer traffic priority over others


Sounds like you are describing the premium service you can pay extra for on the BT network.
E.g. link.
Sounds a bit vague however on where the prioritisation takes place.
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Mon 16-May-11 10:14:36
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Nine minutes twenty nine seconds for zen to answer the phone, thats cheap BT tactics, keep the customer waiting and waiting so they give up?

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ISP Representative ajays
(isp) Mon 16-May-11 10:22:43
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Hello,

I've not been following this threat so canít comment on any other points you may have raised. However, you may be interested to know that for the benefit of our customers we publish current and historical information on queue times for all our customer facing teams.

The stats allow you to see exactly how long the current call queue is and how many customers are in that queue.

http://www.zen.co.uk/contact-us/telephone-statistics...

-------------------------------------------------------
Andrew
ZeN Internet Partner Programme
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User john2007
(legend) Mon 16-May-11 11:14:06
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
What was that - 9 minutes to realise you had dialled the wrong number - 25 seconds to redial - 4 seconds to answer the call?
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Mon 16-May-11 11:32:25
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
So the problem is that current technology is not growing with demand, which means too much money is going into back pockets instead of investing.

Also too many dweebs are watching iplayer, and why on earth anyone would want to steam consummating parasites when its much funnier watching them get poked with sticks?????

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Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Mon 16-May-11 11:43:30
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
What was that - 9 minutes to realise you had dialled the wrong number - 25 seconds to redial - 4 seconds to answer the call?


LOL, u r in need of spelling and sarcasm lessons, I can teach u.

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Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 16-May-11 12:20:44
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Oh dear...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 16-May-11 12:24:14
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Your ADSL service is not a managed service, your responsible for everything before your master socket. Wiring, routers, switches, computer settings, the lot. Contention is just part of normal broadband. Don't expect a 1:1 ratio as that would be dedicated bandwidth and fairly pricey.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 16-May-11 12:26:53
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Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
I'm pleased you and I will never speak. Typical British public phone manner:

Got slow connection, I'm paying you, fix it, errrrr what's HTTP mean? duhhhhhh. I'm off to TalkTalk. *Swears and hangs up*


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 16-May-11 12:33:09
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
They are charging you for UPTO 25mbps, and this is based on what is possible from the copper cables. People like you should never have internet

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 16-May-11 12:34:09
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: knight01] [link to this post]
 
lag laugh

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 16-May-11 12:35:37
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
I hope Zen see sense and reject your order when the time comes. Your more than a jobs worth.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User aquilla
(knowledge is power) Mon 16-May-11 20:20:54
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
May I recommend the following product:

http://business.bt.com/broadband-and-internet/intern...

Guaranteed service level agreements, high speed internet 24x7x365 or you money back and a fully managed service. Sounds perfect. wink

Regards,

Stuart

Zen Pro - "Up to 20Mbit Broadband"
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Mon 16-May-11 22:03:30
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: krazykizza] [link to this post]
 
ROLF, it was more like...

ZEN BLOKE - blames punks for using iplayer to watch the royal wedding (yeah right)

ME - yeah yeah, hangs up and gets a sky HD/Phone/BB package for 66.50, (so long suckers)

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Mon 16-May-11 22:07:46
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: krazykizza] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by krazykizza:
Your ADSL service is not a managed service, your responsible for everything before your master socket. Wiring, routers, switches, computer settings, the lot. Contention is just part of normal broadband. Don't expect a 1:1 ratio as that would be dedicated bandwidth and fairly pricey.


I consider that stuff to be after the master socket as the world wide internet does not start at my house.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Mon 16-May-11 22:12:01
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: aquilla] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by aquilla:
May I recommend the following product:

http://business.bt.com/broadband-and-internet/intern...

Guaranteed service level agreements, high speed internet 24x7x365 or you money back and a fully managed service. Sounds perfect. wink


BT are banned in my threads, so no you can't, unless your treating me tongue

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Mon 16-May-11 22:26:51
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: ajays] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ajays:
Hello,

I've not been following this threat so canít comment on any other points you may have raised. However, you may be interested to know that for the benefit of our customers we publish current and historical information on queue times for all our customer facing teams.

The stats allow you to see exactly how long the current call queue is and how many customers are in that queue.

http://www.zen.co.uk/contact-us/telephone-statistics...


You could use that information to assign more operators at busy times, did you think of that?

I think not...

You can thank me later.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User ian_c
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-May-11 01:26:39
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: krazykizza] [link to this post]
 
It's probably time to put the troll food away.

Standard User Tacitus
(experienced) Tue 17-May-11 08:59:36
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: ian_c] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian_c:
It's probably time to put the troll food away.
Time to lock the thread since it's not going anywhere. smile

Edited by Tacitus (Tue 17-May-11 09:00:26)

ISP Representative SkyFire
(isp) Tue 17-May-11 10:06:37
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

The most likely cause of the issue you're seeing will be peak usage at a local (exchange) level, potentially affecting any non-LLU ISP, resulting in you experience the effects of contention. Obviously the Royal Wedding isn't a factor now, but a couple of weeks ago it will have been. The timing of that event, Zen-wise, would correspond with our network's quieter times (evenings/weekends/bank holidays, as we're predominently a business ISP), however they are consumer peaks so the exchange (BT) back haul will be more likely to experience contention.

BT have planning limits around 'acceptable' levels of contention, and unfortunately the speeds you're seeing would not be sufficient for BT to consider it time to increase capacity. We do detail the thresholds for performance on our website here:
Understanding broadband speeds

I'm sorry you believe we're deliberately taking action to somehow restrict your speeds, but I assure you that's not the case.

Kind regards,
Phil.

--
Phil Long
ZeN Performance and Process Improvement Manager
15.4" MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt- raaa!

Please note, I will not respond to unsolicited private messages.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Tue 17-May-11 10:29:16
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: SkyFire] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by SkyFire:
I'm sorry you believe we're deliberately taking action to somehow restrict your speeds, but I assure you that's not the case.

Kind regards,
Phil.


Why pay zen £30 for [censored] contended broadband when I can pay sky £7.50 for [censored] contended broadband.

This so called problem did not exist a month ago, you can expect to lose a lot of customers coz we are not as stupid as you think we are, zen...

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test

Edited by Tox_Laximus (Tue 17-May-11 10:30:27)

Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Tue 17-May-11 10:37:16
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tacitus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tacitus:
In reply to a post by ian_c:
It's probably time to put the troll food away.
Time to lock the thread since it's not going anywhere. smile


LOL, sounds like a zen employee trying to sweep this thread under a rug, how many back handers does it take to close a thread btw?

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 17-May-11 11:08:35
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
You haven't seen my house setup laugh

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 17-May-11 11:19:44
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: aquilla] [link to this post]
 
Haha! laugh

Cost? £30.... PER DAY!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 17-May-11 12:14:46
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Why pay zen £30 for [censored] contended broadband when I can pay sky £7.50 for [censored] contended broadband.


Because one relies on BT's expensive network, and one relies on Sky's own cheaper network. That is quite obvious.

This so called problem did not exist a month ago, you can expect to lose a lot of customers coz we are not as stupid as you think we are, zen...


That statement is fairly ironic in itself. I doubt Zen think that at all but half your posts are only backing up what assumption you feel Zen have of yourself as a "customer"!

You don't seem to appreciate what Zen have said and whilst it may not have been there a month ago, congestion and the amount of users on an exchange or "VP" can increase as well as decrease - BT do have to move users around at exchanges when they have not correctly judged the balance on each VP.

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
ISP Representative BCS
(isp) Tue 17-May-11 13:16:15
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Hi Tox_Laximus,

I'm sorry to hear about the reduction in throughput speeds and I can certainly appreciate the reasons for your frustration.

However I do feel it is appropriate that I highlight to you and others who may be reading, that your suggestion of us 'trying it on' and any other underhand tactics are misplaced.

From searching other thinkbroadband threads, I can see this problem isn't uncommon for you. Whilst some of the previous causes may be due to active traffic management on your line I do notice that you are on an exchange serving a University area. It is not uncommon for these areas to suffer from contention from time to time, especially toward the end of final semester. Iíve seen this myself when connected to the Rusholme exchange in Manchester. Spikes can also be caused by a large up take in services being connected that go on to exceed of the existing backhaul capacity. In any case, these are usually identified and upgraded within a couple of weeks if not earlier.

It is also fair to highlight that in the interests of balance, when you spoke to us we identified a couple of drops which may indicate a seperate problem, however this was masked by local behaviours taken when the router isnít in use. As such it isnít possible to determine if an issue actually existed which may magnify the problems you are experiencing. An option was presented to provide help but it would appear we wonít see this exercised.

This response isnít designed to provoke a or enter into an argument however as this is a public space where accusations are being made, it is fair for us to highlight any misplaced comments. Again I don't discount your frustration and understand your point of view.

I wish you all the best with your new provider.

Kind regards,
Brian

Brian Storey -
ZeN Internet
Senior Provision Specialist

Contact Zen Customer Services:-

T: 0845 058 9000 / 777 option 5. 9am to 5pm weekdays
E: customerservices@zen.co.uk
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Gypsydog
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 17-May-11 14:03:10
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: BCS] [link to this post]
 
And on that note, it would be the ideal time for the mods to lock the thread.

You cannot employ reason with the unreasonble. frown

DrayTek Vigor 2710n


ZeN Active 8000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Every man should have at least two computers; one to use and one to tinker with.
Standard User Tacitus
(experienced) Tue 17-May-11 17:09:31
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Gypsydog] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Gypsydog:
You cannot employ reason with the unreasonble. frown
I'm not sure I would describe the OP in such polite terms smile
Standard User ukhardy07
(member) Tue 17-May-11 18:07:08
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tacitus] [link to this post]
 
Agreed.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 17-May-11 18:09:25)

Standard User Sandgrounder
(knowledge is power) Wed 18-May-11 09:20:51
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
There you have it, official from the horses mouth.
Not really. It is just hearsay. smile



Line One:- Zen - DrayTek Vigor 2600VG
Line Two:- EntaNet (Aquiss) - DrayTek Vigor 2600
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Wed 18-May-11 23:43:07
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
This thread has raised way too much interest which is very suspect, and there are a lot of people trying cheap tactics to shut me up.

My speeds have miraculously gone back to normal, a zen employee knows who I am which means either my real name is Tox Laximus (lmao) or some admin from this site is sharing personal data with zen (IP address), I know the latter to be true.

I know when I'm being had, once I had respect for zen but now I see them hide behind the same scripted babble of the lame ISP's.

I would advise others who are faced with any excuses from their ISP's to just migrate, there are no excuses for bad service, one recorded written letter and contacting ofcom is all it takes to get out of a contract, if you let company's get away with giving you a bad service they will do, far too many people will not fight back.

This thread is over, I'm moving to sky, and thats the end of it.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Wed 18-May-11 23:56:32
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: BCS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BCS:
It is also fair to highlight that in the interests of balance, when you spoke to us we identified a couple of drops which may indicate a seperate problem, however this was masked by local behaviours taken when the router isnít in use. As such it isnít possible to determine if an issue actually existed which may magnify the problems you are experiencing. An option was presented to provide help but it would appear we wonít see this exercised.


Do you want to explain how you know who I am?

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User ian_c
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 19-May-11 01:18:02
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark and guess that your attitude gave you away...

Standard User rentanuke
(member) Thu 19-May-11 08:14:52
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: ian_c] [link to this post]
 
rotfl laugh

-----------------------------
ZenADSL 8000 Pro 8Mb ZeN
-----------------------------
Standard User Tacitus
(experienced) Thu 19-May-11 08:22:05
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
This thread is over, I'm moving to sky, and thats the end of it.
Lucky Sky.......
Standard User shtu
(experienced) Thu 19-May-11 10:02:39
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
In reply to a post by BCS:
It is also fair to highlight that in the interests of balance, when you spoke to us...


Do you want to explain how you know who I am?


I'd guess at,

- Looked at the time you posted on here gumbling about the alleged 9 minute wait.
- Looked at the list of "complaint" calls of that morning
- Listened back to them until they found that only one that matched the attitude displayed here.

It was probably quite easy to find. smile
ISP Representative dazhaywood
(isp) Thu 19-May-11 10:15:12
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Hi Tox_Laximus,

I'm not going to comment on the decision to leave, as that's obviously a personal choice for you. As you've mentioned the migration process means customers are free to move ISP's if they feel their current provider is no longer suitable.

In regards to the comment about us obtaining customers IP's from this site, as far as I'm aware this isn't something we'd ever ask for, and I'd expect the site admins would refuse to provide this if we did.

In terms of finding your identity, in your previous posts you've included speed tests with links taken from your zen webspace, which is a unique account, so we can then trace this information back to a customer if required.

Although this is unlikely to change your decision to leave Zen, it'll hopefully alleviate your fears that your details were obtained by other means.

Darren Haywood -
ZeN Project Co-ordinator
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 10:35:59
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tacitus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tacitus:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
This thread is over, I'm moving to sky, and thats the end of it.
Lucky Sky.......


Got the sky HD box yesterday, part of their self install free for 3 months free offer, cant believe the thing just worked without a problem, the new sky boxes are faster, better looking and more intuitive, this is called progression.

UNLIKE some company's that I could mention.

So thats SKYHD+SKY ANYTIME+CALLS+UNLIMITED BROADBAND+LINE RENTAL for around £72.50 pm, the zen equivalent CALLS+100MEG BROADBAND+LINE RENTAL is £55.00 pm, although I was getting it for £50.00 pm, after they rang me up and begged me not to leave a couple of months back, I know there are a lot of naive people here who don't know they can make deals or too frightened to ask.

The broadband at SKY is £7.50 pm, and I expect contention / shaping for that price, but I will bet the speeds are not much slower that what I was getting anyway...

Also once company's realize your not frightened and naive they fix your problems very quick.

SO for those little frightened naive dweebs who can't fight their own battles but instead make snide remarks and check everyones spelling mistakes from the safety of their PC's are gonna get ripped off and bullied for the rest of their lives and no one in gonna lift a finger to help them, now thats funny.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 10:53:30
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: shtu] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by shtu:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
In reply to a post by BCS:
It is also fair to highlight that in the interests of balance, when you spoke to us...


Do you want to explain how you know who I am?


I'd guess at,

- Looked at the time you posted on here gumbling about the alleged 9 minute wait.
- Looked at the list of "complaint" calls of that morning
- Listened back to them until they found that only one that matched the attitude displayed here.

It was probably quite easy to find. smile


-Phone records will verify my alleged wait.
-They was busy all morning, u mean someone listened to all the calls afterwards?
-What attitude? I was polite and only burst out laughing once when they mentioned loads of dweebs were watching the royal wedding on iplayer, omg thats really funny.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 11:18:14
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: dazhaywood] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dazhaywood:
Hi Tox_Laximus,

I'm not going to comment on the decision to leave, as that's obviously a personal choice for you. As you've mentioned the migration process means customers are free to move ISP's if they feel their current provider is no longer suitable.

In regards to the comment about us obtaining customers IP's from this site, as far as I'm aware this isn't something we'd ever ask for, and I'd expect the site admins would refuse to provide this if we did.

In terms of finding your identity, in your previous posts you've included speed tests with links taken from your zen webspace, which is a unique account, so we can then trace this information back to a customer if required.

Although this is unlikely to change your decision to leave Zen, it'll hopefully alleviate your fears that your details were obtained by other means.


Thats how, now why are tracing me?

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
ISP Representative dazhaywood
(isp) Thu 19-May-11 11:44:15
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Hi Tox_Laximus,

You'd asked in you last post how you could be identified, and as Brian was unavailable to ask I spent 30 seconds looking through your previous posts to see if you'd included your name in there, or if there was another way he could have found this info. It wasn't in any way attempting to track you, I was just looking to see if there was an obvious way this could be done without using the method you'd mentioned.

I hope that clears it up.

Regards

*Edit - spelling

Darren Haywood -
ZeN Project Co-ordinator

Edited by dazhaywood (Thu 19-May-11 11:46:19)

The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 11:58:22
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: dazhaywood] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dazhaywood:
Hi Tox_Laximus,

You'd asked in you last post how you could be identified, and as Brian was unavailable to ask I spent 30 seconds looking through your previous posts to see if you'd included your name in there, or if there was another way he could have found this info. It wasn't in any way attempting to track you, I was just looking to see if there was an obvious way this could be done without using the method you'd mentioned.

I hope that clears it up.

Regards

*Edit - spelling


I'm my last post I said 'why are you tracing me'?

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User rentanuke
(member) Thu 19-May-11 12:03:55
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
So they can have a little party after you get your MAC and leave?

-----------------------------
ZenADSL 8000 Pro 8Mb ZeN
-----------------------------
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 12:13:19
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: rentanuke] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rentanuke:
So they can have a little party after you get your MAC and leave?


I suppose your supplying the cherryade and bringing twister, I'm gutted...

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User shtu
(experienced) Thu 19-May-11 13:52:30
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
In reply to a post by rentanuke:
So they can have a little party after you get your MAC and leave?


I suppose your supplying the cherryade and bringing twister, I'm gutted...


What attitude? That attitude.

While you list your hobby as "Stiring hornets nests with a big stick ", it's getting tiresome now. Zen's staff have been (from the posts here) as polite, helpful and diplomatic as anyone could expect, and it's clear you would rather complain about any aspect you feel you can, rather than attempting to work with them to resolve the problem. Your choice.

I look forward to hearing of your experiences with Sky. In the meantime I'll step away from this thread now, as this isn't constructive. smile
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 14:49:04
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: shtu] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by shtu:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
In reply to a post by rentanuke:
So they can have a little party after you get your MAC and leave?


I suppose your supplying the cherryade and bringing twister, I'm gutted...


What attitude? That attitude.

While you list your hobby as "Stiring hornets nests with a big stick ", it's getting tiresome now. Zen's staff have been (from the posts here) as polite, helpful and diplomatic as anyone could expect, and it's clear you would rather complain about any aspect you feel you can, rather than attempting to work with them to resolve the problem. Your choice.

I look forward to hearing of your experiences with Sky. In the meantime I'll step away from this thread now, as this isn't constructive. smile


I really don't see what my legitimate hobby has to do with any of this?

I'm leaving, the matter is closed, there is no issue to resolve, so why keep bringing all of this up?

You will never 'hear' of my experiences with sky, but you will be able to read them.

Edit: And I am genuinely gutted about missing your cherryade and twister party even though everyone is gonna get stuck to the mat.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test

Edited by Tox_Laximus (Thu 19-May-11 14:58:35)

Standard User Gypsydog
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-May-11 14:57:30
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: shtu] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by shtu:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
In reply to a post by rentanuke:
So they can have a little party after you get your MAC and leave?


I suppose your supplying the cherryade and bringing twister, I'm gutted...


What attitude? That attitude.

While you list your hobby as "Stiring hornets nests with a big stick ", it's getting tiresome now. Zen's staff have been (from the posts here) as polite, helpful and diplomatic as anyone could expect, and it's clear you would rather complain about any aspect you feel you can, rather than attempting to work with them to resolve the problem. Your choice.

I look forward to hearing of your experiences with Sky. In the meantime I'll step away from this thread now, as this isn't constructive. smile


I wonder if this Tox_Laximus is the same individual that is banned from the Halo 3 forums ?????

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=14006179

DrayTek Vigor 2710n


ZeN Active 8000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Every man should have at least two computers; one to use and one to tinker with.
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-May-11 15:10:03
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
New VP's are added all the time

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-May-11 15:11:25
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: krazykizza] [link to this post]
 
No, they're not as it is not always possible to do so.

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-May-11 15:13:43
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
The economy must being out the worst in people.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 15:15:46
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Gypsydog] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Gypsydog:
In reply to a post by shtu:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
... nested quotes trimmed ...


I suppose your supplying the cherryade and bringing twister, I'm gutted...


What attitude? That attitude.

While you list your hobby as "Stiring hornets nests with a big stick ", it's getting tiresome now. Zen's staff have been (from the posts here) as polite, helpful and diplomatic as anyone could expect, and it's clear you would rather complain about any aspect you feel you can, rather than attempting to work with them to resolve the problem. Your choice.

I look forward to hearing of your experiences with Sky. In the meantime I'll step away from this thread now, as this isn't constructive. smile


I wonder if this Tox_Laximus is the same individual that is banned from the Halo 3 forums ?????

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=14006179


Could be, but you should ask zen as they are the experts at digging though posts.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-May-11 15:17:30
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
When your making comments like this, an ISP has a right to reply.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User Tacitus
(experienced) Thu 19-May-11 15:18:16
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
......now thats funny.
Not half as funny as your post. Best laugh I've had all day smile

[Edit] @Mods: That's it, I'm out. smile

Edited by Tacitus (Thu 19-May-11 15:19:19)

Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 15:21:47
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: krazykizza] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by krazykizza:
When your making comments like this, an ISP has a right to reply.


zen behaving in such a manner suggests I was right in the first place.

I suppose that could be interpreted as some sort of threat 'we know who you are' etc..

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-May-11 15:22:51
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
They are in the East Mids laugh

I could show you, but with DPA and everything...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-May-11 15:24:40
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: krazykizza] [link to this post]
 
Your statement inferred that VPs are added ALL of the time, which as you most probably know isn't always the case.

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-May-11 15:25:29
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
If your interpreting an ISP who actively finds their customers and aims to solve their problems as threatening then you should waste no time by quickly donning a tin foil hat and shouting CONSPIRACY!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-May-11 15:27:31
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
I kinda dramatized a bit tongue

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-May-11 15:28:02
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: krazykizza] [link to this post]
 
wink

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-May-11 15:29:46
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
That could be said for anyone who Google's your name though.

It does not mean the ISP in question have any sort of "special" access, or methods of spying on their customers.

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 15:38:08
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: krazykizza] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by krazykizza:
If your interpreting an ISP who actively finds their customers and aims to solve their problems as threatening then you should waste no time by quickly donning a tin foil hat and shouting CONSPIRACY!


If you think a ISP can search for personal information when they feel like it is a good thing then there is something wrong with you, I know one thing, I made the right choice...

They have stated how they found my personal information, all I want to know is why?

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 15:45:51
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tacitus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tacitus:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
......now thats funny.
Not half as funny as your post. Best laugh I've had all day smile

[Edit] @Mods: That's it, I'm out. smile


Which one?

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Croftie
(learned) Thu 19-May-11 19:04:16
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
So an employee goes out their way to help, despite your attitude and your attitude just gets worse. :rollseyes:

Yep.. Tox_Laximus = Typical ignorant arogant asshat yankie troll.

He/she is probably only here because america chucked he/she out.

End this fools nonsense and ban/lock.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Thu 19-May-11 20:17:34
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Croftie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Croftie:
So an employee goes out their way to help, despite your attitude and your attitude just gets worse. :rollseyes:

Yep.. Tox_Laximus = Typical ignorant arogant asshat yankie troll.

He/she is probably only here because america chucked he/she out.

End this fools nonsense and ban/lock.
You post an insult and request a locK? You should be banned for bad language.



______________________________________________________________________________attack_the_post_not_the_poster__________________
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 22:19:53
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
In reply to a post by Croftie:
So an employee goes out their way to help, despite your attitude and your attitude just gets worse. :rollseyes:

Yep.. Tox_Laximus = Typical ignorant arogant asshat yankie troll.

He/she is probably only here because america chucked he/she out.

End this fools nonsense and ban/lock.
You post an insult and request a locK? You should be banned for bad language.


Hey, Croftie has a valid point and I like his attitude, but maybe the comment about me being a he-she is not called for tongue

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Thu 19-May-11 22:29:05
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
america chucked he/she out
should be "him/her"



______________________________________________________________________________attack_the_post_not_the_poster__________________
Standard User Croftie
(learned) Thu 19-May-11 23:22:08
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
You post an insult and request a locK? You should be banned for bad language.

Not an insult, the truth. Even if it was an insult, he/she deserves it, Zen doesn't.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:
should be "him/her"

I did notice that and couldn't be bothered to edit, despite knowing some fool would pick at it.


IMO BatBoy should also be banned. Reason: sticks up for trolls.

PS I'm not posting again in this thread, it's what the trolls want.
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 23:56:15
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Croftie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Croftie:
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
You post an insult and request a locK? You should be banned for bad language.

Not an insult, the truth. Even if it was an insult, he/she deserves it, Zen doesn't.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:
should be "him/her"

I did notice that and couldn't be bothered to edit, despite knowing some fool would pick at it.


IMO BatBoy should also be banned. Reason: sticks up for trolls.

PS I'm not posting again in this thread, it's what the trolls want.


I think you should apologize to our american friends too, after all they single handily won both world wars and have pizza eating ninja turtles that live in sewers.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 19-May-11 23:58:59
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
america chucked he/she out
should be "him/her"


Agreed.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 24-May-11 09:23:00
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: dazhaywood] [link to this post]
 
Without us having permission from users we would never share any PID address information with an ISP rep.

The reps have no visibility to poster information that regular registered users do.

In terms of the actual congestion issue, it should be pointed out that the Zen site had for some years a note that at peak times speeds might drop to 2Meg ish due to the way the BT Wholesale works.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Fri 12-Aug-11 00:32:33
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Since moving to sky some time ago my speed is a constant 7.5 Mbps compared to zens 3 Mbps at peak times.

I do not appreciate being told a pack of lies when zen tried to blame iplayer and BT for my poor download speed.

Zen actually tried threatening me in this very post, though it was purposely ambiguous, cowardly bully's often use this tactic so they can easily back down if you wont.

I will dig this post up every few months until this forum or myself is dead.

Good Riddance...

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User alewis
(experienced) Fri 12-Aug-11 09:10:46
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Since moving to sky some time ago my speed is a constant 7.5 Mbps compared to zens 3 Mbps at peak times.

I do not appreciate being told a pack of lies when zen tried to blame iplayer and BT for my poor download speed.

Zen actually tried threatening me in this very post, though it was purposely ambiguous, cowardly bully's often use this tactic so they can easily back down if you wont.

I will dig this post up every few months until this forum or myself is dead.

Good Riddance...


Can you provide

1. Evidence of Zen's lies. Evidence being posts or emails, not your assertions.

2. Evidence of Zen threatening you. Again, evidence being the posts you mention, and not your opinion.

The views expressed here are mine alone, and do NOT reflect those of my employer, present or previous.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 12-Aug-11 10:42:08
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Enjoy Sky

Zen has always been fairly up front about potential for peak time speed drops, usually on the product description pages. Reviewing the thread you appeared to be willing to do little to look into where the issue may lay.

Sky's service is not immune to contention, just it may be very rare until such time as they start to fill the network. People raved about O2 for some time, then cost of providing a nearly uncontended service (even using LLU) became and issue and look at current situation.

Sky's pockets may be deeper, so you can enjoy a year or two as it is, but the pattern will repeat.

BTW continually resurfacing an old and effectively dead matter is not the way to make people pay attention, just tends to make someone look vindictive.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Fri 12-Aug-11 12:02:03
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
I will dig this post up every few months until this forum or myself is dead.


Or until the thread is locked. Mods, you know what you have to do.

Now on <aaisp.net>
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Standard User TalkTalk1969
(newbie) Fri 12-Aug-11 12:07:37
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
Locking a thread will come across as bad also as it will seem the site is "protecting" Zen.

Better to leave it open and not have censorship, the original poster was probably just venting and we all do that from time to time, i myself have suffered and still suffer contention during peak times, i am not going to continually berate anyone about it though but surely thats upto the original poster and in a free society we should respect that.
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Fri 12-Aug-11 12:20:29
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
I'm with you, but there comes a point where putting a skipping broken record out of its misery is actually the right thing to do.

The apparent grandeur persona that Tox puts across in his posts is amusing, but it becomes tiresome. The thread has achieved its purpose (it's had enough replies) and quite frankly, if you cut away all the [censored] in it, it just comes down to him probably being on a poor exchange (in BT terms) and so yes, moving to a different provider, has resulted in an improvement.

Yet, he's quite adamant that it is all Zen's fault, and more over, he's quite intent on continuing to push this (in my view) flawed belief down other's throats, to prove a point (of which there is non to prove). It's simple, if you aren't happy with your ISP, you move (which he has done, god bless, and it has been a success for him!). You don't waste your energy protesting about it further on forums, digging up a now stale thread which has now served is purpose.

Peace smile

Now on <aaisp.net>
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 12-Aug-11 18:12:38
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TalkTalk1969:
Locking a thread will come across as bad also as it will seem the site is "protecting" Zen.

Thinkbroadband do not moderate in a bias fashion, if they lock a thread they will have good reason. Anyone who reads the OP(ost), by the OP(oster) in question will see he was not even aware his line went through the BT network to get to Zen when he initially made such claims, therefore, any further claims must be taken with a pinch of salt unless evidence provided!!

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User techguy
(member) Fri 12-Aug-11 19:44:55
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
Sky are now doing what O2 did, lowering prices and offering bundles to drum up custom for their TV, phone and broadband service.

Over time the network will become overloaded but luckly for Sky, Easynet, which is the company they acquired and is actually the network you use, poured lots of money into their network (just like Zen do) and were/are still a respected business ISP (also like Zen)

Unfortunately however, for most customers you have to factor in the BT effect meaning you can be stuck on a congested exchange which I do firmly believe was the cause of your triubles Tox.

Please try using an actual traffic managed ISP, then you will have a legitimate gripe.

I do wish Zen would unundle some exchanges down south as I think they could do a far better job than BT and they are perhaps the only ISP I'd be happy to commit to a 12 month contract with as the service I have received has always been superb.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Mon 15-Aug-11 21:56:27
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Well of course sky are going to shift bandwidth from me to keep new customers happy or cram more and more onto the same modem, 6 to 12 months after starting a contract this will happen, then I will lay into them and if its not fixed then its off to somewhere else.

You want proof then do some speed tests.

Stuff I have noticed since the conservatives are back...

My doctors surgery were 'losing' repeat prescriptions for expensive medication.

TV censorship increased.

A couple of riots, one caused by not letting poor people go to university, another because of police brutality and no future for the young in this country, does minors strike and poll tax riots ring a bell?

And not to stray too much because of hovering mods ... this government likes to let businesses off the collar, charging the same money for half the service for example.

I will keep quiet and never come back here again, if someone can tell me of just one thing that has improved in this country, this would make me happy smile

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 15-Aug-11 22:16:59
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Well of course sky are going to shift bandwidth from me to keep new customers happy or cram more and more onto the same modem, 6 to 12 months after starting a contract this will happen, then I will lay into them and if its not fixed then its off to somewhere else.

You want proof then do some speed tests.

Stuff I have noticed since the conservatives are back...

My doctors surgery were 'losing' repeat prescriptions for expensive medication.

TV censorship increased.

A couple of riots, one caused by not letting poor people go to university, another because of police brutality and no future for the young in this country, does minors strike and poll tax riots ring a bell?

And not to stray too much because of hovering mods ... this government likes to let businesses off the collar, charging the same money for half the service for example.

I will keep quiet and never come back here again, if someone can tell me of just one thing that has improved in this country, this would make me happy smile

You belong in FC... oh hang on... maybe you already are in FC.....

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Mon 15-Aug-11 23:24:24
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Well of course sky are going to shift bandwidth from me to keep new customers happy or cram more and more onto the same modem, 6 to 12 months after starting a contract this will happen, then I will lay into them and if its not fixed then its off to somewhere else.

You want proof then do some speed tests.

Stuff I have noticed since the conservatives are back...

My doctors surgery were 'losing' repeat prescriptions for expensive medication.

TV censorship increased.

A couple of riots, one caused by not letting poor people go to university, another because of police brutality and no future for the young in this country, does minors strike and poll tax riots ring a bell?

And not to stray too much because of hovering mods ... this government likes to let businesses off the collar, charging the same money for half the service for example.

I will keep quiet and never come back here again, if someone can tell me of just one thing that has improved in this country, this would make me happy smile

You belong in FC... oh hang on... maybe you already are in FC.....


FC?

Is this fc in this country and has it improved?

Go stick your head back in your bucket of sand...

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Mon 15-Aug-11 23:34:02
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
In reply to a post by TalkTalk1969:
Locking a thread will come across as bad also as it will seem the site is "protecting" Zen.

Thinkbroadband do not moderate in a bias fashion, if they lock a thread they will have good reason. Anyone who reads the OP(ost), by the OP(oster) in question will see he was not even aware his line went through the BT network to get to Zen when he initially made such claims, therefore, any further claims must be taken with a pinch of salt unless evidence provided!!


LOL, you've been hovering over me for ages looking for any excuse to delete this post, been working on your backhanders?

How come the same exchange with sky can give me 7.5Mbps every time I checked, when zen was 3Mbps and off peak 6Mbps?

Look at sig?

6.9 on TBB speed test but that test is a little conservative, just like you.

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by Tox_Laximus (Mon 15-Aug-11 23:36:18)

Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Tue 16-Aug-11 01:04:17
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Whether it is contention or shaping does not matter, what matters is for whatever reason zen now decide to do this and charge the same money while the customer gets half their connection.

Perhaps it is your local exchange? Therefore a BT problem and not Zen's fault..

You should do a speedtest using the bt speedtest domain to see if that is also slow, which will point the finger at exchange contention.


Do you work for zen or something?

Its not the exchange, go back to sleep.

My Broadband Speed Test
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 16-Aug-11 16:12:21
Print Post

Re: Contention / Traffic shaping


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
And as things get non-sensical am closing the thread.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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