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Standard User TalkTalk1969
(newbie) Tue 24-May-11 21:03:10
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Download Speeds - Peak Time


[link to this post]
 
I have been with Zen quite a few years now but notice my speed drops whenever i download anything during peak times, now sure i have read people claiming its a BT issue, i have emailed Zen and spoken to Zen on the phone and they say they do not have speed caps but there is some doubt in my mind as this never used to happen and i do not think my local exchange is better or worse than it used to be.

I give you an example, the download started at 188kbp/s, it was fine for several minutes then suddenly drops to a consistent 90.6kbp/s - That is suspiciously like speed capping as far as i am concerned.

Now the actual download site will officially play a part in all this but its just the way it dropped that raised my alarm bells, maybe its nothing but i intend to monitor this situation and try some tests to determine whether its BT or Zen or some other source.
Standard User TalkTalk1969
(newbie) Tue 24-May-11 21:31:00
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
Incidentally just so people know, i am not prone to complaining.

A short while back i suddenly without any reason lost my internet, i called Zen and we did all the usual tests, nothing seemed wrong, i bought a brand new router and the internet was still down, so on the Sunday Zen booked an engineers visit for Tuesday the following week, well guess what happened on Bank Holiday Monday, the internet suddenly came back, i had not done anything on my end and as already stated i had bought a new router and carried out all of the usual Zen tests with the master socket. It struck me that some BT engineer was working on Monday and fixed something, they planned to visit me on Tuesday and charge me a lot of money because they will have said to me there was no fault on the line.

Zen were not able to get an explanation off of BT for why a fault that had gone on for around five days was suddenly fixed.

Well my ThinkBroadband speed test says i was getting 800kbp/s yesterday, today after sending an email to Zen Technical Department i noticed in the evening the speedtest said 3.6mbp/s.

The speedtest at BT says this.

Download speedachieved during the test was - 5376 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :7712 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 6000 Kbps

Something is just not right, is it Zen, is it BT. ?

Its certainly not my equipment, i wouldn't rule out my exchange completely but the way this seems to happen is strange, if it was congestion i'd be surprised since this problem wasn't happening last year and i don't think Jedburgh has any more people connecting than last year during peak times.

I do like Zen customer service though, and i should also say they are far better than Virgin ADSL or AOl, both of which were atrocious as far as their internet went.
ISP Representative SkyFire
(isp) Wed 25-May-11 09:31:30
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TalkTalk1969:
I have been with Zen quite a few years now but notice my speed drops whenever i download anything during peak times, now sure i have read people claiming its a BT issue, i have emailed Zen and spoken to Zen on the phone and they say they do not have speed caps but there is some doubt in my mind as this never used to happen and i do not think my local exchange is better or worse than it used to be.

I give you an example, the download started at 188kbp/s, it was fine for several minutes then suddenly drops to a consistent 90.6kbp/s - That is suspiciously like speed capping as far as i am concerned.


I can assure you there is no capping in place. smile

In terms of 'peak' what times are you talking, as it's a very subjective term? In our case, 'peak' is typically office hours, but for the BT side of the network peaks are likely to occur in the evenings/weekends to correspond with residential usage.

A change at the exchange is unlikely to have occured for you to experience the effects of contention; the change will more likely be in how people use their connections - sometimes that could be driven by an unusual event (and there may be some who carry on using services after 'discovering' them in this way) or by people starting to use their connections differently (so using things like iPlayer, LoveFilm, YouTube for watching more video or for watching in higher quality).

A few users changing their behaviour over time will eventually add up, so the effects of contention are experienced. Once speeds fall out of BT's thresholds consistently BT would then look to address capacity.


kind regards,
Phil Long

--
Phil Long
ZeN Performance and Process Improvement Manager
15.4" MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt- raaa!

Please note, I will not respond to unsolicited private messages.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).


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Standard User TalkTalk1969
(newbie) Wed 25-May-11 09:49:23
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: SkyFire] [link to this post]
 
I consider peak times to be in the evening between 5pm and 11pm, thats when i think people will get in from work and school and use the internet.

I just checked my local exchange using the Nildram UK site.

Results for exchange: Jedburgh
Congestion

Congestion status on this exchange is green GREEN.

Your telephone line is on an un-congested exchange.
Major Service Outages

There are no Major Service Outages on your line at this present time

I connected at 5.4mbp/s at 6am this morning, i will check that during those peak hours tonight, maybe you are right and it is just many users on the internet during the evening or maybe its connected with the recent issue of no internet when i was down for five days, who knows, time will tell.
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Wed 25-May-11 12:06:02
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
On sunday 12pm my speed went from 6mb to 3mb in a instant and stayed there until 5pm at which point it went back to 6mb in a instant, my exchange is also green.

Iplayer and formula one are to blame it seems, and traffic shaping seems to be very much in effect during these events and peak times.

I really don't know why anyones bothers wasting bandwidth on F1 none of those follow the leader fairy's could hold a candle to senna and mansell.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User TalkTalk1969
(newbie) Wed 25-May-11 12:27:59
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
How did you get the 1mbp/s upload speed, i'd love that if i didn't have to pay extra for it, with a website it's useful to have a higher upload speed when restoring backups and adding files to your site, it can be so slow when you are uploading large files at 200kbp/s to 300kbp/s.

Regarding traffic shaping, do you think BT are doing this or Zen. ?

I find it strange that the speed on a download can drop and stay at a consistent low range, i saw this with Virgin when i used to be with them, although it was a pathetic 25kbp/s during peak hours and thats why i left them. I would have thought if there was local congestion due to many people using the internet at the same time that the speed would vary rather than be a consistent number.

Also a few days back i was connecting at 800kbp/s, then i connect at 3.6mbp/s and now 5.4mbp/s, i would have thought regardless of download speed that the rate at which you connect should stay the same and be consistent, i'm guessing though that is a completely different issue to the download speeds during peak hours which may be congestion although why does it drop suddenly and stay at the exact speed and not go higher or lower, that is strange to me and reminds me of my Virgin internet experience.

Edited by TalkTalk1969 (Wed 25-May-11 12:29:16)

ISP Representative SkyFire
(isp) Wed 25-May-11 12:49:46
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
By 'connecting at' do you mean sync'ing at? If so it may be BRAS profile limits that are the cause. PM me your username if you like and I'll have a gander. smile

And, I'll say again - Zen aren't capping/traffic shaping or anything of that nature. smile

ta,
Phil.

--
Phil Long
ZeN Performance and Process Improvement Manager
15.4" MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt- raaa!

Please note, I will not respond to unsolicited private messages.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User TalkTalk1969
(newbie) Wed 25-May-11 13:15:56
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: SkyFire] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by SkyFire:
By 'connecting at' do you mean sync'ing at? If so it may be BRAS profile limits that are the cause. PM me your username if you like and I'll have a gander. smile

And, I'll say again - Zen aren't capping/traffic shaping or anything of that nature. smile

ta,
Phil.


My profile has changed a lot this month but currently shows as 6000 downstream and a sync rate of 6816.

My internet speed has now dropped to 3.4mbp/s according to the speedtest and its only just after 1pm, this morning it was 5.4mbps. I just cannot see a small town like Jedburgh having lots of congestion at 1.10pm of the day. I'll check Nildram again but it probably won't show anything.

I'll PM you my Zen username though and you can take a look, if its not your end then i guess its BT or the exchange and the recent issues i have had,
ISP Representative SkyFire
(isp) Wed 25-May-11 13:19:29
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
The BT congestion reports aren't updated in real-time; they're generated by BT on a regular basis (as I recall, monthly - though it might be more frequent than that) and are based on an exchange operating outside of BT's planning guidance (so customers regularly seeing speeds below the published thresholds) for a sustained period of time.

Unfortunately green does not mean 'no contention' it just means it's within acceptable boundaries.

ta,
Phil.

--
Phil Long
ZeN Performance and Process Improvement Manager
15.4" MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt- raaa!

Please note, I will not respond to unsolicited private messages.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
ISP Representative SkyFire
(isp) Wed 25-May-11 13:33:45
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TalkTalk1969:
I'll PM you my Zen username though and you can take a look, if its not your end then i guess its BT or the exchange and the recent issues i have had,

Thanks. I've taken a look, and your BRAS profile looks like it's remained stable at 6000kbps, even during your recent fault.

Looking at your line I feel fairly confident in saying this is most likely due to contention at the exchange level - the line looks stable in terms of BRAS profile and has only had a few drops in the past week. There's nothing I can see on our side of the network that should result in slower speeds.

I know this doesn't provide a resolution, but hopefully - along with my previous posts - it at least helps in understanding what's happening.

ta,
Phil.

--
Phil Long
ZeN Performance and Process Improvement Manager
15.4" MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt- raaa!

Please note, I will not respond to unsolicited private messages.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User TalkTalk1969
(newbie) Wed 25-May-11 13:33:47
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: SkyFire] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by SkyFire:
The BT congestion reports aren't updated in real-time; they're generated by BT on a regular basis (as I recall, monthly - though it might be more frequent than that) and are based on an exchange operating outside of BT's planning guidance (so customers regularly seeing speeds below the published thresholds) for a sustained period of time.

Unfortunately green does not mean 'no contention' it just means it's within acceptable boundaries.

ta,
Phil.


Nildram isn't much use then, i just tried the BT Speedtester again.

Download speedachieved during the test was - 5493 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :7136 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 6000 Kbps

Think Broadbands speed test said my speed was 3.4mbp/s at 1.10pm, now i re-test just twenty minutes later and i get 5.1mbp/s, it seems to be fluctuating quite a bit.

Incidentally the fault which brought my internet down developed late April, i think it was the 27th April and the Zen control panel shows a new sync on the 2nd of May and it changed several times up till the latest which has been stable now for a week.

Edited by TalkTalk1969 (Wed 25-May-11 13:36:38)

Standard User mac_d
(regular) Wed 25-May-11 19:02:51
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
I've been having similar problems in recent weeks - though I should make it clear it may have been a bit slower at peak times for a while and I've only just noticed because it's suddenly become more severe. The problem times for me seem to be later on in the evenings, after 9pm, with Friday & Sunday nights being the most likely times for it to slow down.

I'm not that worried about dropping from say 6mb to 4mb - it's not ideal but I'm well aware broadband over BT lines isn't ideal... However, I have had a few instances of my connection slowing right down to 0.5mb to 3mb and I'm not impressed with that at all. Zen support said they could see no problems with my line, BT said there was no contention at my exchange, so no one can do anything.

I've done a whole host of things at my own end to try and eliminate any possible issues, and I think I can now safely assume that immaterial of what Zen & BT say, there is some kind of issue outwith my own control. Contention at the exchange may well be all it is - but the sudden sheer drop in speed suggests something is not right.The slowdown hasn't been so severe this week, but I'll be continuing to monitor speeds.

Unfortunately, if it continues, it seems the only possible way of improving things is to move to an LLU provider.
Standard User MiGLancer
(newbie) Thu 26-May-11 13:45:00
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: mac_d] [link to this post]
 
I am going through the same issues for the last week or so.

But my speed dropped from a fairly reliable 7mbps to 300kbps. It tends to pick up to around 1000kbps later in the evening and up to 3000kbps late at night. And then is back to 6mbps in the morning. I do expect that the max speed in the evening will fluctuate, however not to these extremely low limits.

You can imagine I am not impressed. The guys at Zen are fantastic and are helping me figuring it out. So far it points to BT, but now I am facing the danger of having BT over to test and if nothing wrong found charge me £250!! And will still have the problem! Is this BT trying to force us to move broadband to them, my paranoid self is asking....

This seems to be a real problem lately for many users and am yet to see an answer to it. Other than moving to another line provider (LLU is in my area).

The sad thing is that I like Zen - they have been excellent for all the years I have been dealing with them. I don't want to move, but cannot use my internet with 300kbps download speed.

I hope this gets sorted over the next few days...

Edited by MiGLancer (Thu 26-May-11 14:02:49)

Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 26-May-11 15:20:51
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: MiGLancer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MiGLancer:
I am going through the same issues for the last week or so.

But my speed dropped from a fairly reliable 7mbps to 300kbps. It tends to pick up to around 1000kbps later in the evening and up to 3000kbps late at night. And then is back to 6mbps in the morning. I do expect that the max speed in the evening will fluctuate, however not to these extremely low limits.

You can imagine I am not impressed. The guys at Zen are fantastic and are helping me figuring it out. So far it points to BT, but now I am facing the danger of having BT over to test and if nothing wrong found charge me £250!! And will still have the problem! Is this BT trying to force us to move broadband to them, my paranoid self is asking....

This seems to be a real problem lately for many users and am yet to see an answer to it. Other than moving to another line provider (LLU is in my area).

The sad thing is that I like Zen - they have been excellent for all the years I have been dealing with them. I don't want to move, but cannot use my internet with 300kbps download speed.

I hope this gets sorted over the next few days...


Its not a fault, its BT and/or ZEN taking the [censored].

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
ISP Representative SkyFire
(isp) Thu 26-May-11 15:32:17
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
From what the poster has said it does soundslike they have an issue open with us and BT, hence the concern about engineer charges.

Given that, it's either that this customer has an issue separate to contention, or the contention is resulting in speeds below BT's thresholds.

regards,
Phil.

--
Phil Long
ZeN Performance and Process Improvement Manager
15.4" MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt- raaa!

Please note, I will not respond to unsolicited private messages.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User MiGLancer
(newbie) Thu 26-May-11 16:50:52
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Its not a fault, its BT and/or ZEN taking the [censored].


If you have nothing constructive to say, why bother?
Standard User mac_d
(regular) Thu 26-May-11 18:48:27
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: MiGLancer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MiGLancer:
The sad thing is that I like Zen - they have been excellent for all the years I have been dealing with them. I don't want to move, but cannot use my internet with 300kbps download speed.

I hope this gets sorted over the next few days...

Good luck to you and the OP, but that's three weeks in a row I've been having these issues, and I'm really beginning to think LLU has to be worth a try. I joined Zen because I didn't mind paying a bit more for a reliable & better quality service, and I've been delighted with it for the few years I've been with them. But this is the kind of speed issues at peak times that I moved away from BT Broadband to avoid - the only difference is I'm now paying more....

Thankfully this weekend was the first in 3 when it didn't drop to really low speeds (0.5Mb), but still, download speeds dropped from 600kbs to 200kbs between lunchtime and now frown
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Thu 26-May-11 22:16:09
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: MiGLancer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MiGLancer:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Its not a fault, its BT and/or ZEN taking the [censored].


If you have nothing constructive to say, why bother?


That guy will have to spend loads to determine if its a fault, this so called problem is happening a lot recently, they are not the first company to do this and won't be the last, look at your speed tests at certain times, it don't take a professor to work out whats going on.

A lot of money will be saved, is that constructive enough?

You can ring zen, they will blame BT, and around in circles you will go.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User alewis
(experienced) Fri 27-May-11 09:30:26
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
In reply to a post by MiGLancer:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Its not a fault, its BT and/or ZEN taking the [censored].


If you have nothing constructive to say, why bother?


That guy will have to spend loads to determine if its a fault, this so called problem is happening a lot recently, they are not the first company to do this and won't be the last, look at your speed tests at certain times, it don't take a professor to work out whats going on.

A lot of money will be saved, is that constructive enough?

You can ring zen, they will blame BT, and around in circles you will go.


No it isn't constructive enough. I would like you to post exactly what is the root cause of this issue, together with evidence of it.

Big hint - Zen do not traffic shape.

The views expressed here are mine alone, and do NOT reflect those of my employer, present or previous.
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Fri 27-May-11 10:16:50
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: alewis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by alewis:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
In reply to a post by MiGLancer:
... nested quotes trimmed ...


If you have nothing constructive to say, why bother?


That guy will have to spend loads to determine if its a fault, this so called problem is happening a lot recently, they are not the first company to do this and won't be the last, look at your speed tests at certain times, it don't take a professor to work out whats going on.

A lot of money will be saved, is that constructive enough?

You can ring zen, they will blame BT, and around in circles you will go.


No it isn't constructive enough. I would like you to post exactly what is the root cause of this issue, together with evidence of it.

Big hint - Zen do not traffic shape.


That would require monitoring a lot of zen users every hour to build evidence, I can't do that.

You could try migrating to idnet and see if the same happens, they have monthly contracts too, so moving back and forth will not be a problem.

Traffic shaping or contention is all the same to us, you might as well migrate to a cheaper isp, but the contention effect will be amplified.

I can offer a prediction, this is gonna get steadily worse, off the top of my head I can't think of anything in this country that has improved this century.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User TheHorseman
(knowledge is power) Fri 27-May-11 12:02:10
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: mac_d] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mac_d:
Good luck to you and the OP, but that's three weeks in a row I've been having these issues, and I'm really beginning to think LLU has to be worth a try.

I was on LLU BB from 2005/6 (cant quite remember) to April of this year (Bulldog then Be*) and only left to get FTTC. If Be* were offering FTTC then I would have stayed with them. Both Bulldog and Be* were adsl2+.

From what I have read on these forums I am thankful to have missed out on BTs adslmax and its agressive line management.

BT -> Zen -> F2S -> Bulldog -> Be* -> BT Infinity
Far too many computers, 1 Wife, 3 Maine Coons and too many horses smile
Standard User Bill_Lord
(member) Fri 27-May-11 12:21:05
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
off the top of my head I can't think of anything in this country that has improved this century.


The Labour party got rid of Blair, Gordon Brown was dumped out of Office, the new Mondeo is better than the old Mondeo, Zen increased my bandwidth from 1gb to 10gb. I can find more if you want them.

Bill Lord
I've taken a vow of poverty, to annoy me send money
Standard User rentanuke
(member) Fri 27-May-11 14:54:03
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
How's life under the tin-foil hat?

-----------------------------
ZenADSL 8000 Pro 8Mb ZeN
-----------------------------
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Fri 27-May-11 23:55:55
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Bill_Lord] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bill_Lord:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
off the top of my head I can't think of anything in this country that has improved this century.


The Labour party got rid of Blair, Gordon Brown was dumped out of Office, the new Mondeo is better than the old Mondeo, Zen increased my bandwidth from 1gb to 10gb. I can find more if you want them.


So the new government raised tuition fees 3x, caused a few riots and Camilla got poked with a stick, thats progress?

Mondeos are made in poland or somewhere coz if they were made in england they would get slower and slower and the on board computer would blame the petrol.

You'll have to try harder than that...

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test

Edited by Tox_Laximus (Sat 28-May-11 00:02:42)

Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Sat 28-May-11 00:05:57
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: rentanuke] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rentanuke:
How's life under the tin-foil hat?


No where near as good as my faraday cage.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Bill_Lord
(member) Sat 28-May-11 01:12:08
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
You'll have to try harder than that...


They started putting several processors on one chip, computer memory speeds increased enormously, hard drives got bigger than at once seemed possible, quality flat screen monitors became two a penny, my kids eventually decided to present me with grandchildren ( if I had known that they were such fun I would have had them first), forums like this one became commonplace and allowed all sorts of ill informed complaints to be published, oh yes and did I mention that zen increased my bandwidth from 1gb a month to 10gb a month and did not increase the charge.

Bill Lord
I've taken a vow of poverty, to annoy me send money
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Sat 28-May-11 10:00:00
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Bill_Lord] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bill_Lord:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
You'll have to try harder than that...


They started putting several processors on one chip, computer memory speeds increased enormously, hard drives got bigger than at once seemed possible, quality flat screen monitors became two a penny, my kids eventually decided to present me with grandchildren ( if I had known that they were such fun I would have had them first), forums like this one became commonplace and allowed all sorts of ill informed complaints to be published, oh yes and did I mention that zen increased my bandwidth from 1gb a month to 10gb a month and did not increase the charge.


Just one little detail, all that stuff is made in china, america and japan, apart from your grandkids of course.

So the only improvement in this country in this new century is your broadband usage and peoples ability post their broadband problems online and, maybe next century the company's will read them, but not this one.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Bill_Lord
(member) Sat 28-May-11 12:07:24
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Just one little detail, all that stuff is made in china, america and japan, apart from your grandkids of course.

So the only improvement in this country in this new century is your broadband usage and peoples ability post their broadband problems online and, maybe next century the company's will read them, but not this one.


You are changing the rules, you did not demand improvements that were just made and used in the Uk to start with. As to your last comment you might think that I could not possibly comment as the evidence goes against you since I can see a considerable number of replies from zen employees to your messages on this and other threads.

Bill Lord
I've taken a vow of poverty, to annoy me send money
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Mon 30-May-11 22:44:58
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Bill_Lord] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bill_Lord:
In reply to a post by Tox_Laximus:
Just one little detail, all that stuff is made in china, america and japan, apart from your grandkids of course.

So the only improvement in this country in this new century is your broadband usage and peoples ability post their broadband problems online and, maybe next century the company's will read them, but not this one.


You are changing the rules, you did not demand improvements that were just made and used in the Uk to start with. As to your last comment you might think that I could not possibly comment as the evidence goes against you since I can see a considerable number of replies from zen employees to your messages on this and other threads.


So, that just means you can't think of anything?

zen and their klingons are trying to keep me quiet, and thats how I can tell I hit a nerve because of the questionable amount of attention that post attracted, and I see more threads about poor speed.

I've had no warnings from any mods, so this site very much seems to be independent.

Just look at your speed tests they don't lie.

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
Standard User TalkTalk1969
(newbie) Tue 31-May-11 14:13:58
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
The Jedburgh exchange is supposed to be getting upgraded late next year ( what a long time to wait ) - If the download speeds stay like they are during peak times then i might well leave Zen, i'm still unconvinced about what they say regarding speed capping, i have to give them some benefit of the doubt but like i say i am not totally convinced about this.

Having a website, which you can see in my profile, is one reason to stay with Zen as uploads do not count towards your bandwidth but i am also seeing other people writing about download speeds and no congestion showing up on the BT end, something doesn't seem right about all this and frankly i am not the trusting sort of person, i tend to take everything officialdom says with a pinch of salt.

Hopefully things improve, they have a year and a half to get better before i can possibly look at alternatives, until then i will watch this forum with interest and see if any others are suffering from these issues, i'm not blaming Zen just yet but at the same time it's also very easy to shift the blame onto BT.
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Fri 03-Jun-11 00:09:10
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
Well, since moving to sky my speeds during peak times are around 4mb which is 2mb more than zen and bear in mind this is only the second day and I'm in the early stages of the training period.

This is what I think has happened ... ZEN appoints a new flashy new manager to increase profits, so the first thing he does is cut back costs to BT which he knows will cause low speeds to zen customers during peak times and they can consequently blame BT when the complaints come in.

Whatever is happening, I will say this - it take years to build a reputation and an instant to lose it.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User camieabz
(legend) Fri 03-Jun-11 19:45:12
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
Have you tried the TBB BQM. It might shed some light on things. Also suggest you try downloading some speedtest files, rather than 'site' files, so as to avoid site throttling.

~~~~~~~~~~


© Camieabz 2002-2011

Live BQM

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User TalkTalk1969
(newbie) Sat 04-Jun-11 13:57:19
Print Post

Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by camieabz:
Have you tried the TBB BQM. It might shed some light on things. Also suggest you try downloading some speedtest files, rather than 'site' files, so as to avoid site throttling.


I did download speedtest files, i used my website providers files at Inmotion Hosting and was able to determine speed of the download doing that, their peak times will be different to UK times and i think that helps even more with diagnostics.
Standard User mac_d
(regular) Mon 06-Jun-11 19:07:43
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
At the moment, I no longer seem to be suffering the extremely slow speeds that I was getting on occasion (2Mb and below). The slow times for me are still late in the evenings, but it's usually 4Mb-5Mb when I've checked, so still slowing, but not nearly as much.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jun-11 02:04:19
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: mac_d] [link to this post]
 
Trouble is there are many peaks on the Zen connection. During business hours when Zens network is under pressure from Business users typically during the day. Then local exchange contention typically early and late evening when local users are online and you have to compete with all ISPs for bandwidth.

Tim
ZeN & freenetname
recapped ST546v6 on 8 Meg Active
Check my bad boy speeds out on ZeN
Standard User MiGLancer
(newbie) Sat 18-Jun-11 13:19:43
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: MiGLancer] [link to this post]
 
OK - after a couple of weeks of monitoring, including trying a couple of other routers to exclude the possibility of hardware fault at my end, the issue appear to have been sorted. It pointed out to BT equipment in the exchange, although this hasn't been confirmed by BT.
Zen guys have contacted BT about this, apparently BT hasn't bother to reply. But as all appears OK now I am happy to close this. It is very probable that BT upgraded some of their gear at the exchange.
In principle I have no problems moving away from Zen if the service I receive from them doesn't satisfy my needs. Whatever the reason... Blaming it on BT will not help in certain cases - at least now we start to have other options. It is up to the ISPs to push BT and liase with OFCOM to ensure our services are as flawless as possible.
But, as always, the Zen help desk is extremely professional and helpful. I wish more services we have to deal with from day to day were as professional and with as much common sense. I see no reason to move.
Thank you Zen.
Standard User IamQ
(experienced) Sat 18-Jun-11 16:11:44
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: MiGLancer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MiGLancer:
It is up to the ISPs to push BT and liase with OFCOM to ensure our services are as flawless as possible.


You forget that we have no 'right' to have xDSL and we must accept the service 'as is' Remember the minimum data service obligation is only still 56kbit* so far as BT's required to support (On dial up) and I think its 128 or 160kbit* over ADSL. It's a bit like the DACS problem - nothing says BT have to remove one in order to provide you xDSL service.

What Ofcom need to do is start again with it all really and *force* BT to deliver minimum service standards. (Oh wait don't we have a USO of 2mbit coming in 2014 anyway ?!)

There are 2 issues to address - BT have to get there act together but at the same time must not be allowed to price people out of the market. (Note the price of BT's BES and MSiL's, and an old 622Mbit ATM central was £1.5M/pa*)

Otherwise remove BT's control over the system (DLM, RAMBO, BBRAS etc) and hand it over to the ISP's on a port by port bases leaving BT to only provide the physical hardware platforms (MSANS, Nodes etc) At the same time force the network up to standard (Which is partly going on now with the 7750 upgrade program and the MGLAG program)

It will be interesting to see what happens when Fuji (I think it was) starts to build out its access, distribution and core networks in the UK over the coming year or so.

There's lots of other issues which I can't be bothered going into, like corperation tax on dark fibre and so on which don't help smaller operators. Spetrum issues with wireless providers, and planning issues with sewer based providers.

BT based ISP's need to wake up and smell the coffee and realise nothing is going to change over night, and its going to take *years* to bring new ideas etc online. Those providers who are not looking to there own LLU deployments, or using a 3rd party wholesale access provider will only get dragged down no matter how good a company they are in there own right. Customers want choice, where they don't get it or there are many layers of blame they are not interested and will vote with there money and go elsewhere (Even if they still experience the same problems in the 1st instance)


* From what I remeber.
Standard User MiGLancer
(newbie) Sat 18-Jun-11 16:23:42
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: IamQ] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for pointing this out - I did not forget however, maybe didn't implied it enough.

Yes, I think someone - and ISPs are the main engine behind this and maybe consumer groups - need to lobby OFCOM to impose a minimum of services that need to be made available for a modern comm network. Customers expect this regardless of what the imposed requirement is.

There is a lot in your post I don't understand as I am not a specialist, but you are right ISPs need to wake up and get their act together pronto. And OFCOM needs to grow some cojones in front of BT or any other comm company.
Standard User tri_hard
(newbie) Sat 18-Jun-11 20:53:51
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: MiGLancer] [link to this post]
 
And consumers need to understand the word contention and what it actually means.

The internet simply cannot have an uncontended pipe into each home. Something has to be shared somewhere and that means speeds will slow down at peak times. Everyone wants guarantees but not to pay for them. You have a guarantee and its sub 256kbit and thats what you pay for.

People seem to think an ISP can guarantee many things but so much traffic goes into the cloud it simply is not possible. All they can guarantee is the speed to the exchange as past that point your line speed really does depend upon everyone else who (selfishly) expects their speeds to be met at the expense of others.

Your car can probably do 155mph before its speed limited and even if the speed limit were removed, you still would never manage that speed due to the other traffic on the road. Your suggestion would be the equivalent of keeping building roads so that you can go faster, which are dedicated to your personal usage, and then expecting everyone else to get out of your way.

Won't happen - live with it laugh
Standard User MiGLancer
(newbie) Sat 18-Jun-11 23:11:42
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: tri_hard] [link to this post]
 
I think most understand the contention issue. That doesn't mean we should accept a lower quality because of that.

At least in UK, most ISP have their balls in BT's clutch. BT is not bothered by any of these issues as they only have to provide a minimum. And they are also a competing ISP.

So ISP's - for their own good - should push BT and especially OFCOM to ensure progress is made. Either in upgrade of hardware or technologies. Speed up taking over the loop! Increasing the optic fibre coverage is building the new roads you are talking about. I do not accept your defeatist attitude. If there were scientific issues against it I would understand. But there is no reason for UK not to achieve internet speeds similar to those in S Korea. I am being overoptimistic, I know, but in principle it could happen. You seem to spin my idea a bit and insinuate I expect a personal usage line or similar - this is not what I expect, but a reasonably quick upgrade of hardware, fibre, local loop or whatever it takes. If not from BT then from a competitor.

In my area there is no significant increase of users - I live in the sticks. But the users expectations and usage has increase - see BT's own BT Vision, iPlayer, 4OD, LoveFilm etc...

One way or another I will move to the provider that gives me the smoothest access. Excuses like contention should mean nothing to the consumer. Within reason, of course.

Edited by MiGLancer (Sat 18-Jun-11 23:18:36)

Standard User tri_hard
(newbie) Sun 19-Jun-11 16:10:42
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: MiGLancer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MiGLancer:
I think most understand the contention issue. That doesn't mean we should accept a lower quality because of that.


Which shows you really truly misunderstand how the internet works - the internet IS contended. No matter how much capacity is available, what is actually available to you wholly completely and utterly depends upon what everyone else is doing at the same time. Korea is irrelevant - it too has contention issues and most live in apartment blocks who get these high speeds. I am not defeatist - I have a good understanding of how the internet actually works and I can do both maths and have an understanding of economics. All of which your post demonstrates you do not.

To expect otherwise is ...... well, I'll leave it there. Is that the first birdsong of spring I hear ?

Good luck with your unicorn hunt (and rewriting the laws of physics while you're at it)
Standard User IamQ
(experienced) Sun 19-Jun-11 17:23:49
Print Post

Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: tri_hard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tri_hard:
In reply to a post by MiGLancer:
I think most understand the contention issue. That doesn't mean we should accept a lower quality because of that.


Which shows you really truly misunderstand how the internet works - the internet IS contended. No matter how much capacity is available, what is actually available to you wholly completely and utterly depends upon what everyone else is doing at the same time. Korea is irrelevant - it too has contention issues and most live in apartment blocks who get these high speeds. I am not defeatist - I have a good understanding of how the internet actually works and I can do both maths and have an understanding of economics. All of which your post demonstrates you do not.

To expect otherwise is ...... well, I'll leave it there. Is that the first birdsong of spring I hear ?

Good luck with your unicorn hunt (and rewriting the laws of physics while you're at it)



Hmmm - without wishing to spark anything off here the nub of the problem is as follows;

Is the internet & access to the internet a public utility ?

If no - then move along there is nothing more to see here, if yes then...
Standard User pwhodges
(committed) Sun 19-Jun-11 19:37:06
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: IamQ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by IamQ:
Is the internet & access to the internet a public utility ?
One Answer.

Paul
ISP Representative Pontefract
(isp) Mon 20-Jun-11 10:49:50
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
This is what I think has happened ... ZEN appoints a new flashy new manager to increase profits, so the first thing he does is cut back costs to BT which he knows will cause low speeds to zen customers during peak times and they can consequently blame BT when the complaints come in.


As a matter of public record: this has not happened.

--
Paul Simpson
Zen Technical Support
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User MiGLancer
(newbie) Mon 20-Jun-11 14:45:26
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: tri_hard] [link to this post]
 
OK - as this is turning in a attack against me I will leave it there.

Your way of reaching conclusions is, to say the least, original.

As I lost interest in this subject, and this board for that matter, I will let the principles of market economy decide.

Adios!
Standard User Tacitus
(experienced) Mon 20-Jun-11 16:11:21
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Pontefract] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pontefract:
This is what I think has happened ... ZEN appoints a new flashy new manager to increase profits, so the first thing he does is cut back costs to BT which he knows will cause low speeds to zen customers during peak times and they can consequently blame BT when the complaints come in.
As a matter of public record: this has not happened.
I doubt any sentient reader of this forum imagined it had.....
Standard User TalkTalk1969
(newbie) Tue 21-Jun-11 18:51:27
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: IamQ] [link to this post]
 
Here you go, just for you, i have found the Unicorn.

http://www.darkrealmfox.com/dvd_bluray_comparisons/l...
Standard User techguy
(member) Wed 29-Jun-11 15:00:49
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: TalkTalk1969] [link to this post]
 
As someone who, up until last year tried many of the BT based ISPs along with O2 LLU I can say quite confidently that Zen are, IMO, the best.

With their tweaking and advice on tweaking my own router I now have an approximately 3.5 km line running with a throughput of 2.4Mbps

O2 LLU was very unstable on the line and all they wanted to do was send a BT engineer round. no guidance given whatsoever and they screwed up the refund under their guarantee too.

Some people sing the praises of LLU but bear in mind you will be committing yourself to a 12 month contract, I'd be more than happy to commit to a 12 month contract with Zen if they unbunded my exchange but not really with a faceless body like the big boys.

As others have said, as it is pretty much certain that contention is the cause of your issues moving between ISPs that use BT supplied DSL circuits won't help you.

While I'd like to see the access network wrenched from BT's grip and jointly owned by the service providers (as is the case with the London Internet Exchange) that unfortunately isn't likelly to happen anytime soon.

Zen are a customer of BT and have little sway over them unfortunately, unbundling exchanges is an expensive business which is why few do it.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User Bill_Lord
(member) Wed 29-Jun-11 16:56:38
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by techguy:
With their tweaking and advice on tweaking my own router I now have an approximately 3.5 km line running with a throughput of 2.4Mbps


I would agree with you about Zen being the best however, if I was only3.5km from the exchange I would expect a lot more than 2.4Mbps. I am 6.5 km from the exchange with a line attenuation of 62db and I get a throughput of 2.1Mbps thanks to the efforts and help of the Zen staff.

Bill Lord
I've taken a vow of poverty, to annoy me send money
Standard User techguy
(member) Wed 29-Jun-11 19:24:30
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Re: Download Speeds - Peak Time


[re: Bill_Lord] [link to this post]
 
Only did the tweaking last Friday so course I need to wait a few days for the DLM to realise the connection is stable and not flapping so it will hopefully up the throughput.

MK is rubbish for broadband although BT are currently trialling Fibre to the premises, I indicated I'd like to give it a ho and they contacted me to arrange but at the mo they can't give me an idea of the price so am waiting until it goes into production and Zen launch their FTTP product,

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
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