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Standard User mrbiggs
(newbie) Mon 15-Aug-11 07:56:59
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Bad line woes. Anything I can do?


[link to this post]
 
When we moved house a year ago, I knew that we'd be further from the exchange than we used to be, so wasn't expecting the same performance as before with Zen (solid ASDL2+ sync of 14000 and above). However I'm getting to the end of my tether with this line. Wildly fluctuating speeds, frequent disconnections and periods of unavailability. I'm beginning to question the viability of staying with Zen and paying for an expensive service on a bad line, whereas I may as well just go with a cheaper ISP if I'm going to get a lousy service anyway.

Here's my most recent stats and the fluctuations on the line over the last couple of months from the Zen portal - it's been the same story pretty much all year:

Router: DG834GT (last synced in ADSL2 mode)
Filter: NTE5 faceplate splitter from Maplin
Line Attenuation: 46 db
Noise Margin: 3-6db, fluctuates a lot
Current sync: 3408 kbps down / 883 kbps up

Text
1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
20
Upstream        Downstream      Sync Rate       BRAS Profile    Interleave      Sync Date       Date
654     135     160     adsl135 Auto    12-Aug-2011 12:46       12-Aug-2011 12:46923     250     288     adsl250 Auto    12-Aug-2011 08:37       12-Aug-2011 08:37
959     2500    2848    adsl2500        Auto    07-Aug-2011 21:01       07-Aug-2011 21:01140     750     864     adsl750 Auto    07-Aug-2011 19:47       07-Aug-2011 19:47
931     2500    2848    adsl2500        Auto    07-Aug-2011 17:54       07-Aug-2011 17:540       3000    3424    adsl3000        Auto    05-Aug-2011 13:40       05-Aug-2011 13:40
999     4000    4544    adsl4000        Auto    03-Aug-2011 07:40       03-Aug-2011 07:400       2500    2848    adsl2500        Auto    03-Aug-2011 07:22       03-Aug-2011 07:22
999     3500    4000    adsl3500        Auto    02-Aug-2011 21:19       02-Aug-2011 21:19999     5000    5696    adsl5000        Auto    01-Aug-2011 13:50       01-Aug-2011 13:50
991     3500    4000    adsl3500        Auto    30-Jul-2011 10:39       30-Jul-2011 10:39863     350     416     adsl350 Auto    30-Jul-2011 06:56       30-Jul-2011 06:56
963     4000    4544    adsl4000        Auto    28-Jul-2011 07:47       28-Jul-2011 07:47882     135     160     adsl135 Auto    27-Jul-2011 21:16       27-Jul-2011 21:16
971     4500    5120    adsl4500        Auto    25-Jul-2011 12:16       25-Jul-2011 12:16907     3500    4000    adsl3500        Auto    15-Jul-2011 21:28       15-Jul-2011 21:28
955     4000    4544    adsl4000        Auto    08-Jul-2011 05:46       08-Jul-2011 05:460       4000    4544    adsl4000        Auto    06-Jul-2011 19:33       06-Jul-2011 19:33
971     4500    5120    adsl4500        Auto    24-Jun-2011 05:04       24-Jun-2011 05:04


As you can see - I've never obtained a consistent speed of any kind, and it frequently becomes unusable.

The current sync speed isn't reflected in this list for some reason - yesterday I obtained a different router (a DG834G v2) to see if it would give my any greater stability. It's been connected for 24 hours at an uninspiring sync of 3408, which even if it turns out to be stable, does not justify continuing to pay Zen £35 a month when I could get the quality of service elsewhere.

I've had sync speeds of 5120 and above on this line, but they've never sustained more than a day or so. BT have been out recently to do a voice line test (about 2 weeks ago, the SNR was so poor the router chatter was audible on the voice line) and the engineer found no problem with the voice path. However, in this case an interesting effect of the BT fault reporting guy doing the remote line test was that immediately after the test completed (& plugging everything back in) the router synced at something like 5600 before dropping back down to around 4000 after a few hours.

My question is - is there anything more that can be done here? I'm loathe to wait until fibre comes our way because if we do have a bad line joint outside the property, there's every chance that will cause problems with FTTC as well. I feel that I'd like a thorough investigation of my line from an ADSL point of view, but the variance in the timing of problems make it difficult just to 'raise a fault'.

Edited by mrbiggs (Mon 15-Aug-11 07:58:02)

Standard User mrbiggs
(newbie) Mon 15-Aug-11 08:18:43
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Re: Bad line woes. Anything I can do?


[re: mrbiggs] [link to this post]
 
I should add that there's no extra wiring or extensions from the master NTE5 and I've tested through the test socket in the past and obtained exactly the same fluctuations in speed.

The faceplate filter replaced a standard Solwise inline filter about six months ago, and did temporarily improve speeds slightly, but they soon started to fluctuate.
Standard User jphilip
(member) Mon 15-Aug-11 10:13:48
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Re: Bad line woes. Anything I can do?


[re: mrbiggs] [link to this post]
 
I would speak to support. With the really low synch rates you have had on the 12th there should be enough disconnection history to prove some fault on the line. They can also do a copper line test. They may want you to go back to BT if that shows a fault.


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Standard User ukhardy07
(member) Mon 15-Aug-11 12:43:36
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Re: Bad line woes. Anything I can do?


[re: mrbiggs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mrbiggs:
When we moved house a year ago, I knew that we'd be further from the exchange than we used to be, so wasn't expecting the same performance as before with Zen (solid ASDL2+ sync of 14000 and above). However I'm getting to the end of my tether with this line. Wildly fluctuating speeds, frequent disconnections and periods of unavailability. I'm beginning to question the viability of staying with Zen and paying for an expensive service on a bad line, whereas I may as well just go with a cheaper ISP if I'm going to get a lousy service anyway.

Here's my most recent stats and the fluctuations on the line over the last couple of months from the Zen portal - it's been the same story pretty much all year:

Router: DG834GT (last synced in ADSL2 mode)
Filter: NTE5 faceplate splitter from Maplin
Line Attenuation: 46 db
Noise Margin: 3-6db, fluctuates a lot
Current sync: 3408 kbps down / 883 kbps up

Text
1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
20
Upstream        Downstream      Sync Rate       BRAS Profile    Interleave      Sync Date       Date
654     135     160     adsl135 Auto    12-Aug-2011 12:46       12-Aug-2011 12:46923     250     288     adsl250 Auto    12-Aug-2011 08:37       12-Aug-2011 08:37
959     2500    2848    adsl2500        Auto    07-Aug-2011 21:01       07-Aug-2011 21:01140     750     864     adsl750 Auto    07-Aug-2011 19:47       07-Aug-2011 19:47
931     2500    2848    adsl2500        Auto    07-Aug-2011 17:54       07-Aug-2011 17:540       3000    3424    adsl3000        Auto    05-Aug-2011 13:40       05-Aug-2011 13:40
999     4000    4544    adsl4000        Auto    03-Aug-2011 07:40       03-Aug-2011 07:400       2500    2848    adsl2500        Auto    03-Aug-2011 07:22       03-Aug-2011 07:22
999     3500    4000    adsl3500        Auto    02-Aug-2011 21:19       02-Aug-2011 21:19999     5000    5696    adsl5000        Auto    01-Aug-2011 13:50       01-Aug-2011 13:50
991     3500    4000    adsl3500        Auto    30-Jul-2011 10:39       30-Jul-2011 10:39863     350     416     adsl350 Auto    30-Jul-2011 06:56       30-Jul-2011 06:56
963     4000    4544    adsl4000        Auto    28-Jul-2011 07:47       28-Jul-2011 07:47882     135     160     adsl135 Auto    27-Jul-2011 21:16       27-Jul-2011 21:16
971     4500    5120    adsl4500        Auto    25-Jul-2011 12:16       25-Jul-2011 12:16907     3500    4000    adsl3500        Auto    15-Jul-2011 21:28       15-Jul-2011 21:28
955     4000    4544    adsl4000        Auto    08-Jul-2011 05:46       08-Jul-2011 05:460       4000    4544    adsl4000        Auto    06-Jul-2011 19:33       06-Jul-2011 19:33
971     4500    5120    adsl4500        Auto    24-Jun-2011 05:04       24-Jun-2011 05:04


As you can see - I've never obtained a consistent speed of any kind, and it frequently becomes unusable.

The current sync speed isn't reflected in this list for some reason - yesterday I obtained a different router (a DG834G v2) to see if it would give my any greater stability. It's been connected for 24 hours at an uninspiring sync of 3408, which even if it turns out to be stable, does not justify continuing to pay Zen £35 a month when I could get the quality of service elsewhere.

I've had sync speeds of 5120 and above on this line, but they've never sustained more than a day or so. BT have been out recently to do a voice line test (about 2 weeks ago, the SNR was so poor the router chatter was audible on the voice line) and the engineer found no problem with the voice path. However, in this case an interesting effect of the BT fault reporting guy doing the remote line test was that immediately after the test completed (& plugging everything back in) the router synced at something like 5600 before dropping back down to around 4000 after a few hours.

My question is - is there anything more that can be done here? I'm loathe to wait until fibre comes our way because if we do have a bad line joint outside the property, there's every chance that will cause problems with FTTC as well. I feel that I'd like a thorough investigation of my line from an ADSL point of view, but the variance in the timing of problems make it difficult just to 'raise a fault'.


With a 46 db attentuation I'd expect to see 5.5 Mbps on adsl1

& around 6.5 - 7 Mbps on adsl2

Your lines fluctuating really badly with some 160kbps sycs. This should not be happening!

Assuming your always in the master, have tried new filters, new rj11 cable etc I'd say definite line fault

Im sure zen will see those really low syncs and the errors on the line etc & send out BT openreach

Get in touch!
Standard User ucantbesirius
(newbie) Tue 16-Aug-11 08:56:12
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Re: Bad line woes. Anything I can do?


[re: mrbiggs] [link to this post]
 
+1 for getting in touch with Zen's Technical support line.

I had trouble with a noisy line when I switched to ADSL2+ at the beginning of the year - my profile was getting limited to 2500kbs. I set up the TTB noise quality monitor to run on the line and could see periods of high packet loss on the line - have you tried doing this?

I contacted the Zen support line and they couldn't have been more helpful (or knowledgable). It took a bit of time to go through all the tests to eliminate my equipment as the cause (plugging into test socket and trying alternative filters, modem cables and, ideally, another modem), but once that was done, they got Openreach out and, on the second visit the Engineer changed the line back to the exchange - line attenuation dropped and I've ended up with a profile of 9,000-10,000kbs.

Thanks,
ucantbesirius
Standard User mrbiggs
(newbie) Tue 16-Aug-11 10:42:14
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Re: Bad line woes. Anything I can do?


[re: ucantbesirius] [link to this post]
 
Thanks all. I've raised a fault with Zen and an Openreach engineer is visiting tomorrow AM. Although sync speed seems to have been stable the last couple of days, I'm still seeing dropped connections. My current suspicion is that I've got a particularly noisy line, leading to packet errors and loss of sync.

I haven't seen the ping monitor before - I'll set this up, thanks.
Standard User Tox_Laximus
(member) Tue 16-Aug-11 11:05:14
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Re: Bad line woes. Anything I can do?


[re: mrbiggs] [link to this post]
 
Just keep ringing them until its fixed, I got out a BT contract by ringing every day to log up a massive amount of complaints, it is a lousy thing to have to do but its the only way to deal with lousy company's.

My Broadband Speed Test
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 16-Aug-11 16:10:30
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Re: Bad line woes. Anything I can do?


[re: Tox_Laximus] [link to this post]
 
Do resync's coincide with when the phone rings, or is picked up?

If yes then a High Resistance fault (HR Fault), i.e. poor joint may be the issue.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User DELEVENE
(newbie) Tue 16-Aug-11 16:44:46
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Re: Bad line woes. Anything I can do?


[re: mrbiggs] [link to this post]
 
Zen worked their socks off for me last year, but without success. After 3 months of BT engineer visits culminating in a visit of 2 of their "guru's" complete with all sorts of equipment they left scratching their heads (I'm less than 1KM from the exchange). At which point I called VirginMedia and have had a stable cable connection ever since.
But I repeat - Zen never gave up and pushed BT hard.
Hopefully your problem will be solved - good luck.
Standard User mrbiggs
(newbie) Tue 16-Aug-11 17:06:10
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Re: Bad line woes. Anything I can do?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Do resync's coincide with when the phone rings, or is picked up?

If yes then a High Resistance fault (HR Fault), i.e. poor joint may be the issue.


Not at the moment, but they have in the past on this line, especially when the sync speeds have been really low. I've observed the SNR dropping by maybe 1-2dB when a call is in progress, however.
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