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Standard User mixt
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 08-May-15 13:05:11
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Zen Fibre Regrade - Activation Time


[link to this post]
 
I placed my regrade order from Unlimited Fibre 2 back to Unlimited Fibre 1 this morning. BT have now allocated a specific time period for when this will happen: 8.00am and 11.59pm on the 11th May (Monday).

I thought this kind of thing happens in the early hours? Why would this need to happen during working hours? Is an engineer visit physically required at the cab? If so, would this indicate that Zen are moving me from WBMC to GEA FTTC? (I saw this pop up as question in the order status whilst refreshing the order status page in the portal).

I suppose I can just wait and see what happens, but just curious about why this has been scheduled for the time it has (when I migrated into Zen from AAISP last year, the switch over happened in the early hours of the morning - and that was a change of ISP + jump from 40/10 to 80/20 combo).

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Previous ISPs » aaisp.net (40/10Mb FTTC) | Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable) | Be* Un Limited (ADSL2+) | Zen (ADSL)
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Edited by mixt (Fri 08-May-15 13:10:53)

Standard User mixt
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 11-May-15 08:46:50
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Re: Zen Fibre Regrade - Activation Time


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
Well, Zen's email was a load of rubbish. Regrade happened early hours this morning. Also did not require a modem restart (their email advised it did). Not sure who is wording their templated emails these days.

Also still on WBMC. The IP profile also appears to be back on the percentage akin to a non-G.INP connection, probably due to the DLM being reset as part of the regrade. I wonder if it will switch that on again, as I highly doubt it needs it for a simple 40/10 sync with loads of headroom.

Zen Unlimited Fibre | IPv6 via HE | » Automated Hourly HTTPx5 TBB Speed Tests «
Previous ISPs » aaisp.net (40/10Mb FTTC) | Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable) | Be* Un Limited (ADSL2+) | Zen (ADSL)
Download Maximiser | BIND GeoDNS | Are you being blÝcked?
Standard User rippedcotton
(experienced) Mon 11-May-15 10:56:40
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Re: Zen Fibre Regrade - Activation Time


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
Pretty sure that the sync will be whatever it is for the line length, the 40/10 restriction is done elsewhere in a higher software layer rather than at the physical layer.

--

Brian

Zen Fibre 2


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Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Mon 11-May-15 11:52:49
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Re: Zen Fibre Regrade - Activation Time


[re: rippedcotton] [link to this post]
 
The 40/10 is a different product So the max sync rates are 40/10 this has been confirmed from modem stats in the past ,unlike what what a certain other isp does who only orders the 80/20 product and caps the ds throughput to 40mbps via its own ip profile

So as a result the op will now have lots of spare SNR which should offer grater protection from certain types of noise,though it's not guaranteed and hopefully a lower error rate, But G.inp may still be applied it has been on some really short lines , if you modem is G.inp compatible you shouldn't see performance less than what you would see if on fast path with a low re transmission profile

Edited by tommy45 (Mon 11-May-15 11:59:19)

Standard User mixt
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 11-May-15 12:23:54
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Re: Zen Fibre Regrade - Activation Time


[re: rippedcotton] [link to this post]
 
You are thinking of Plusnet (or similar package types offered by other ISPs) - they provision you 80/20 service on the BT side and then limit your through-put at the ISP side to 40 down, hence how they can offer a 40/20 package.

My 3 main reasons for the backward re-grade are:

1) Cost saving. As I was out of my initial 1 year contract with Zen, price was going to be jumping from £45.44 to £46.99 (for UF2) per month. UF1 is only £43.99 per month (this all includes Zen line rental, by the way).

2) As tommy45 said, the line is no longer being pushed to its limits sync wise. Lots of headroom so should mean minimal line errors and re-syncs. Due to this fact, I guess either G.INP will remain completely off, or if it is applied, the amount of "work" and extra latency it will add to the line will be pretty much non-existent, so nice consistently low latency.

3) I was just not using the kind of speed a 80/20 service provides. If I maybe was in a busy household, I can see how that kind of connection may benefit someone but for my usage it is just wasted speed.

Overall pretty happy. Has locked me into another 12 month contract with Zen but that's fine (much prefer that over Plusnet's 18 month one any day).

Zen Unlimited Fibre | IPv6 via HE | » Automated Hourly HTTPx5 TBB Speed Tests «
Previous ISPs » aaisp.net (40/10Mb FTTC) | Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable) | Be* Un Limited (ADSL2+) | Zen (ADSL)
Download Maximiser | BIND GeoDNS | Are you being blÝcked?
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 11-May-15 14:29:57
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Re: Zen Fibre Regrade - Activation Time


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
I believe Openreach have currently stopped placing people on G.INP profiles whilst some of the issues are investigated. The DLM reset inherent in moving from 80/20 to 40/10 may well keep G.INP off for a while, mixt.


I have G.INP enabled on my line (80/20, Huawei cab, unlocked HG612 with B030SP08 firmware). I have plenty of spare headroom even at 80/20 - Max attainable is 97380/34206 and at 80/20 SNR margin is 10.4dB down and 15.3dB up. I'm almost certain I was on fast path before G.INP came along.

As it is, I have very low G.INP overheads and the G.INP statistics, to my somewhat inexpert reading, indicate that it is doing a worthwhile job with occasional impulse noise. I believe I'm better off with G.INP than without.

If anyone is interested, I'll post the output of xdslcmd info --stats, but I don't want to clutter the thread unnecessarily.


I can understand you regrading to 40/10 mixt, especially as you didn't get the full 80/20 speed. I do get full 80/20 speed and the extra upstream bandwidth is worth £3 per month to us as we make fairly heavy use of cloud storage. However, for many people, the difference between 40/10 and 80/20 will be difficult to spot, and downgrading saves £36 per year.

Standard User rippedcotton
(experienced) Mon 11-May-15 14:48:41
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Re: Zen Fibre Regrade - Activation Time


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
You are thinking of Plusnet (or similar package types offered by other ISPs) - they provision you 80/20 service on the BT side and then limit your through-put at the ISP side to 40 down, hence how they can offer a 40/20 package.


Ah yes, that was it, for some reason I read it as 40/20 even if I didn't type that.

My mistake.

--

Brian

Zen Fibre 2
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 11-May-15 17:48:06
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Re: Zen Fibre Regrade - Activation Time


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
I think it's more likely that DLM will keep you on G.Inp rather than switch you back to Fastpath. I think the only way back to Fastpath is a DLM reset - and then only for a short time.


____________________________________________________Information_without_perspective_is_a_higher_form_of_ignorance_
Standard User mixt
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 11-May-15 18:21:30
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Re: Zen Fibre Regrade - Activation Time


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I'll keep a watch on my connection. If I clock a re-sync, I'll check the IP profile again and update this thread with my findings.

For the record, I no longer see a specific G.INP section in the output of "xdslcmd info --show" - I recall seeing that in relation to the activation of G.INP (maybe David_W can confirm that for us as he's still on a G.INP connection).

Also trying my best not to touch anything modem wise at the moment as I am back on a 10 day training cycle (right?) - maybe if it is going to do anything, it will be within the next 10 days at the latest.

Watch this space.

Zen Unlimited Fibre | IPv6 via HE | » Automated Hourly HTTPx5 TBB Speed Tests «
Previous ISPs » aaisp.net (40/10Mb FTTC) | Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable) | Be* Un Limited (ADSL2+) | Zen (ADSL)
Download Maximiser | BIND GeoDNS | Are you being blÝcked?
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 11-May-15 19:13:31
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Re: Zen Fibre Regrade - Activation Time


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
For the record, I no longer see a specific G.INP section in the output of "xdslcmd info --show" - I recall seeing that in relation to the activation of G.INP (maybe David_W can confirm that for us as he's still on a G.INP connection).
If G.INP is on, you'lll have Bearer 1 and some G.INP counters.

My current xdslcmd info --show follows.

Text
1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
2223
2425
2627
2829
3031
3233
3435
3637
3839
4041
4243
4445
4647
4849
5051
5253
5455
5657
5859
6061
6263
6465
6667
6869
7071
7273
7475
7677
7879
8081
8283
8485
8687
8889
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9293
9495
9697
9899
100101
102103
104105
106107
108109
110111
112113
114115
116117
118119
120
# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY statusStatus: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 34206 Kbps, Downstream rate = 97152 KbpsBearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 KbpsLink Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex BVDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No DefectTraining Status:        Showtime
                Down            UpSNR (dB):        10.4            15.3
Attn(dB):        12.9            0.0Pwr(dBm):        12.5            3.0
                        VDSL2 framing                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              -6B:              130             97
M:              1               1T:              0               0
R:              8               8S:              0.0518          0.1554
L:              21468           5457D:              16              8
I:              139             106N:              139             106
Q:              16              8V:              14              2
RxQueue:                57              39TxQueue:                19              13
G.INP Framing:          18              18G.INP lookback:         19              13
RRC bits:               24              24                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           186             58B:              0               0
M:              2               2T:              2               2
R:              16              16S:              5.3333          16.0000
L:              48              16D:              3               1
I:              32              32N:              32              32
Q:              0               0V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0                        Counters
                        Bearer 0OHF:            0               0
OHFErr:         443             0RS:             3998793424              3759462
RSCorr:         857893          266RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1OHF:            65806381                4402
OHFErr:         0               0RS:             789675829               2265758
RSCorr:         11              6RSUnCorr:       0               0
                         Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         103809          28rtx_c:          60796           110
rtx_uc:         773             0 
                        G.INP CountersLEFTRS:         182             5
minEFTR:        79982           19991errFreeBits:    1289693268              1465052298
                         Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0Total Cells:    3698673885              0
Data Cells:     692270023               0Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0 
                        Bearer 1HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0Bit Errors:     0               0
 ES:             65              0
SES:            14              0UAS:            24              24
AS:             1057035 
                        Bearer 0INP:            46.00           47.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            0.00OR:             0.01            0.01
AgR:            80614.82        20102.08 
                        Bearer 1INP:            4.00            4.00
INPRein:        4.00            4.00delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           16.06OR:             95.62           31.87
AgR:            95.62   31.87 
Bitswap:        662209/662210           417/417


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