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Standard User Ripley
(experienced) Fri 05-Jun-15 13:51:48
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Zen Routing - 3rd hop adding latency


[link to this post]
 
Could anybody explain what is causing additional latency on the 3rd hop with Zen when doing a trace route?

Both with my line at home and 4 lines at work approx. 9 or 10 ms are added at the 3rd hop. These are all FTTC connections.

Frustrating as I seem to have a good connection to the cabinet now and this 3rd hop is nearly doubling my latency....

Freeserve Dial-Up --> BTopenworld --> <n>ildram -->Talk Talk LLU --> ZeN
ASUS RT-AC66U
Standard User Geordish
(learned) Fri 05-Jun-15 13:56:47
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Re: Zen Routing - 3rd hop adding latency


[re: Ripley] [link to this post]
 
A trace route would be helpful. 10ms sounds like it could be a cross country hop. Ie Manchester -> London.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Fri 05-Jun-15 14:00:45
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Re: Zen Routing - 3rd hop adding latency


[re: Ripley] [link to this post]
 
Mine is 7ms at 1st hop (Mcr) then shows a 6-7 ms increase when it hits what is presumably the first switch/router based in London (lon)

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 05-Jun-15 14:24:51)


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Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 05-Jun-15 14:16:15
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Re: Zen Routing - 3rd hop adding latency


[re: Geordish] [link to this post]
 
Tell me about, Zen's routing is some of the worst ive seen from any ISP

I used to get 8ms to BBC now it's 18 as Zen feel it's ok to route my connection through Manchester when it was routed via London. The 200mile extra trip and 2 extra hops has put 10ms onto my line and peak time throughput is woeful but Zen won't do a thing about it.

Zen Fibre
ROUTER:-Asus Dark Knight
JDSU Stats
Attainable 105977D 38659U
Sync 79999D 20000U
Attenuation: 5.4 SNR: Down 13.1 Up 24.3
Line Length 80meters
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 05-Jun-15 14:33:43
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Re: Zen Routing - 3rd hop adding latency


[re: Ripley] [link to this post]
 
As others have said, it depends which gateway you are connecting through and where you are tracerouting to.

6-7ms is typical for a Manchester to London hop. That said, if you are on a Manchester gateway, it may be that some of your traffic avoids London entirely. For example, traffic for Ireland and east coast North America from customers on a Manchester gateway typically goes over the Hibernia Networks cable from Southport.

Standard User IamQ
(experienced) Fri 05-Jun-15 17:56:14
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Re: Zen Routing - 3rd hop adding latency


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
Not really - I've seen routing on some ISP network where your TTL expires in transit...

It depends where your based, what type of connection your are on, and how its connected back to the core network.

Granted it may not help you - but all of my London connections route via London and have never changed. I suspect you may not be in London but may be close enough to feel you should be part of the London Metro network. Sadly there is nothing you an do about it beside route with your feet and find an ISP who will route there traffic in a way you are happier with... In the grand scheme 18ms to BBC is better than a *lot* of other ISP's can manage..

I hope you never take an FTTC product as you might be looking at 35+ms to the BBC depending on your line.
Standard User AdrianPH
(newbie) Fri 05-Jun-15 19:56:31
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Re: Zen Routing - 3rd hop adding latency


[re: IamQ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by IamQ:
Not really - I've seen routing on some ISP network where your TTL expires in transit...

It depends where your based, what type of connection your are on, and how its connected back to the core network.

Granted it may not help you - but all of my London connections route via London and have never changed. I suspect you may not be in London but may be close enough to feel you should be part of the London Metro network. Sadly there is nothing you an do about it beside route with your feet and find an ISP who will route there traffic in a way you are happier with... In the grand scheme 18ms to BBC is better than a *lot* of other ISP's can manage..

I hope you never take an FTTC product as you might be looking at 35+ms to the BBC depending on your line.


He is on FTTC, look at the stats in his signature. My pings/traces to BBC are 8ms on Zen FTTC.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Jun-15 00:21:45
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Re: Zen Routing - 3rd hop adding latency


[re: AdrianPH] [link to this post]
 
lockyatlrg's profile places him in Derbyshire, which is close to half way between London and Manchester, though probably slightly closer to London. He complains about 20ms round trip time to London compared to <10ms when previously on the London gateways. There are very few applications where an extra 10ms round trip time is a deal breaker, especially if the jitter is low, which is presumably why Zen won't reverse their decision to route his traffic through the Manchester gateways. I'm sceptical that even the best online gamers would spot 10ms higher latency, though RTT is easily measured and it's understandable someone wanting minimum latency to London will get upset about a routing change that increases London RTT. Unfortunately Zen have to operate based on sound network engineering, not minimising London RTT for an individual customer on request.

If minimum London RTT is the key criterion, an ISP with all its gateways in or close to London would be the best choice as routing all traffic through anywhere other than London will increase London RTT. You'd have to be paying a lot more than Zen's consumer FTTC charges to be able to dictate your primary gateway location.

Standard User chris6273
(committed) Sat 06-Jun-15 01:09:50
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Re: Zen Routing - 3rd hop adding latency


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:
Tell me about, Zen's routing is some of the worst ive seen from any ISP


Not nearly as bad as BT - my 8ms ping to the bRAS doubles by the time it gets to London - Always been this way since they introduced their stupid IPSC in 2011; before then I had a 12-13ms ping on an ADSLMax connection to London.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
A.K.A: Chrisszzyy

Telewest (2004-2006): 256Kbps -> 512Kbps
University of Portsmouth's Horrible Network (2013 - 2014) - Supposedly 100/100Mbps
BT (2006 - Present): 8128/448 -> 22494/1211 -> 79987/20000Kbps (BT Infinity 2 on Huawei Cab)

Edited by chris6273 (Sat 06-Jun-15 01:10:09)

Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Jun-15 12:44:40
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Re: Zen Routing - 3rd hop adding latency


[re: chris6273] [link to this post]
 
When I was with BT my ping to London was 10ms and it never changed in the 2+ years I was with them.

Zen Fibre
ROUTER:-Asus Dark Knight
JDSU Stats
Attainable 105977D 38659U
Sync 79999D 20000U
Attenuation: 5.4 SNR: Down 13.1 Up 24.3
Line Length 80meters
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