Pro or Option 2/3

Hi,
I'm thinking of joining plus.net (I'm leaving Nildram as soon as they get me my Mac code - 9 days and counting but thats another forum...)
Hope you'll excuse what is probably a simple question...
I use VPN and Remote Desktop a lot, as well as the ancient FTP protocol, and I do this at peak periods. Will I be better off with the Pro product or will Option 2/3 be good enough (i.e. does shaping or contention affect these services noticeably?)
(I use about 8Gb a month max so the usage profile fits OK)
Thanks for help

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I use VPN and Remote Desktop a lot, as well as the ancient FTP protocol, and I do this at peak periods.

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These protocols should be fine on the products you are looking at. As you can see on this page, external FTP is rate limited to 256Kbps on Option 2 and 512Kbps on Option 3, Pro has no rate limits.

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(I use about 8Gb a month max so the usage profile fits OK)

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From that I'd suggest signing up for Option 2, you can always upgrade to Opt 3 or Pro if you find you need it.

Shout up if you've got any problems.

Whichever one you choose - whether it's the one the PN rep recommends for you today or not - you would be well advised to continually check the PN website once a month or so to see if more suitable products have come on stream which provide better services and/or considerable pricing discounts for essentially the same benefits.

I just wanted to pass on this advice because from time to time we see angry or upset customers on here who didn't undertake this exercise and PN have been happy to continue charging them high prices for existing products when there were newer, cheaper, but otherwise broadly compaable products available which the user wasn't made aware of.

Always good advice to keep an ear to the ground.

Often a company will keep you updated or offer an opt out as often the info is often no interest, I know I do that by default with all the companies I deal with but it does mean that I have to regularly check to make sure I am getting the best deal.

If a package gets replaced sometimes a legacy product may be better for you than the new if the company is prepared to let you stay on it. You do need to check the terms and conditions because new stuff is not automatically better for you.

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I just wanted to pass on this advice because from time to time we see angry or upset customers on here who didn't undertake this exercise and PN have been happy to continue charging them high prices for existing products when there were newer, cheaper, but otherwise broadly compaable products available which the user wasn't made aware of.

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Tell me about it. My building society has a new ISA account giving more interest, and all I need to do is switch accounts. My fault I reckon, looking after my money is ultimately my responsibility.

Only a small responsibility I may add as it is only a small amount of money.

Hi Don

Just sent you 17p via PayPal. You now have twice as much to look after

>Just sent you 17p via PayPal.

Doh!, I should thank you perhaps but it tips me over into the higher tax bracket.

This, and all the aggro I'm having with my accounts in Lichtenstein.

Great advice, everyone should take responsibility for their own money and not foolishly rely on a company to do that for them.

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Great advice, everyone should take responsibility for their own money and not foolishly rely on a company to do that for them.

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Quite, however PN do a very good job of looking after customers money, especially when customers foolishly trust them to be "Open and Honest" as promised, and don't doubt the integrity of the Company involved.

But let's not expect good customer service to get in the way of a profit.

Wingco1 since you are not a customer it would be hard for you to judge the Plusnet service first hand. I would suggest you have a look in the Orange, Tiscali and Virgin ADSL forums to get some real perspective on poor customer service. When you have had a look come back here and let us know if Plusnet is getting that many complaints about poor connections, poor customer service and dishonesty from multiple current customers on this forum.

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Wingco1 since you are not a customer it would be hard for you to judge the Plusnet service first hand.

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As I have previously said, I Don't Judge The Products. However My Opinion On Customer Service Is Valid As The Next Man's When Posted In These Forums.

How can it be valid,if you are not a customer? You seemed to have a bee in your bonnet about 'Plusnet'

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How can it be valid,if you are not a customer?

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Do you have opinions on somethings you're not directly connected to?.

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You seemed to have a bee in your bonnet about 'Plusnet'

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You and others seem to have a problem with anyone who isn't a customer!. As I keep repeating, I don't comment on the products but have a valid opinion on customer service issues posted in this forum.

Suprisingly enough, that is permitted by the site owners!.

Quite, but I have a problem with the idea that people can devolve responsibility on how they spend their own money, its not PN job to look after my money, its my job. PN are a business they are not a charity. In a truely ethical business it wouldn't happen I accept that, but in a competive market ethical business doesn't really seem to work unless there is some really unique selling point, like climate change/low carbon foot print etc. PN seems to be following the common industry practice, but to be fair they are trying to listen and I would hope at the next product refresh they would take the ethical stance and inform everyone whether opt in or not, only time will tell

I've found this thread interesting as everyone wants PN to improve but are quite happy for the likes of AOL to continue with the same practice, up until recently my sister was paying �40 a month for a fixed 0.5meg line, I hit the roof but it was all her fault not the ISPs.

Also to me it doesn't matter you are/have been/never have been a PN customer, although I have notice you have recommended a few people to look at PN, didn't go down to well in the enta forum

"Wingco1 since you are not a customer it would be hard for you to judge the Plusnet service first hand. I would suggest you have a look in the Orange, Tiscali and Virgin ADSL forums to get some real perspective on poor customer service. When you have had a look come back here and let us know if Plusnet is getting that many complaints about poor connections, poor customer service and dishonesty from multiple current customers on this forum. "

This was in reference to getting some perspective on all aspects of provision including customer service. Let us know when you have checked out the above 3 forums and how you find they compare to Plusnet on this forum for customer service etc.

Whilst it's good that you subscribe to my views, I must make clear that I am not as swift as you to describe customers who are overpaying (relative to the current market price) as "foolish." They are generally ill-informed rather than stupid. Many of them are probably poor pensioners who can barely hold 5p pieces in their cold, frail hands but are still paying plus net over the odds because someone who recommended plus net, and got them signed up, hasn't bothered or hasn't remembered to tell them to switch products to the more competitively priced alternatives. Maybe that's because they are too busy counting their referral payments.

Whilst the honorable thing for plus net to do would be to actively inform overpaying customers that they are being fleeced, this clearly isn't the profit maximising strategy, and in this case, money talks. It is on that basis that I recommend caveat emptor when dealing with BT PN.

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Many of them are probably poor pensioners who can barely hold 5p pieces in their cold, frail hands

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Now there's an ageist remark if I ever saw one

The term "patronizing gitt" springs to mind

Well summed up but a couple of my peers often phone me up for general guidance ,on using the internet.

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Let us know when you have checked out the above 3 forums and how you find they compare to Plusnet on this forum for customer service etc.

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I don't see any of the three you list making claims about being the best in customer service. None of the three have a web page dedicated to their awards

2008 ISPA Awards Best Consumer ISP Finalist

For the ISP which provides the most outstanding services for consumers.

It is not therefore unreasonable to look at PN more closely.

There's nothing ageist about suggesting that some pensioners can't handle 5p pieces because their hands are cold and frail. Just ask my nan, who has precisely this difficulty.

The broader point, which you seem to have overlooked in your rush to issue a personal insult, is that customers who are, on any rational view, overpaying are not necessarily doing so because they are "foolish", but potentially because they are disenfranchised or poorly informed.

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They are generally ill-informed rather than stupid. Many of them are probably poor pensioners who can barely hold 5p pieces in their cold, frail hands but are still paying plus net over the odds because someone who recommended plus net, and got them signed up, hasn't bothered or hasn't remembered to tell them to switch products to the more competitively priced alternatives. Maybe that's because they are too busy counting their referral payments.

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Glad you thought it best to put a best case scenario. 'Tis full of stereotypical references, and could have used a link to violin music to give it added pathos.

I happen to think that you will find the average pensioner has far more nous about value for money that the younger generation. They generally take on and insist on personal responsibility and do not want to play the blame game and act the victim.

I happen to believe that if someone opts out of receiving information that should be honoured. The exception to that is information that may affect the performance of the product they are actually on. An ISP is obliged to provide that as I see it.

As long as information is easily available for people to compare to see if they could do better......... I see no problem.

What if they don't look? I am such a believer in freedom of action that I have to except that some won't and that is part of having freedom of action, having the choice is the important bit.

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I happen to believe that if someone opts out of receiving information that should be honoured. The exception to that is information that may affect the performance of the product they are actually on. An ISP is obliged to provide that as I see it.

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Well it's either honoured or it isn't Don.

How does that fit in with the opt out stay out philosophy and privacy issues frequently used as a reason for not contacting customers?.

The two are totally different:

One is describing alternative products - if you opt out you don't get the information.

The other is changes to your current product/contract - that you must be sent and there cannot be an opt out for that.

"Wingco1 since you are not a customer it would be hard for you to judge the Plusnet service first hand. I would suggest you have a look in the Orange, Tiscali and Virgin ADSL forums to get some real perspective on poor customer service. When you have had a look come back here and let us know if Plusnet is getting that many complaints about poor connections, poor customer service and dishonesty from multiple current customers on this forum. "

I didn't mention any award it was in reference to getting some perspective on all aspects of provision including customer service. Let us know when you have checked out the above 3 forums and how you find they compare to Plusnet on this forum for customer service etc.

Why do you keep avoiding making the comparison ?

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There's nothing ageist about suggesting that some pensioners can't handle 5p pieces because their hands are cold and frail. Just ask my nan, who has precisely this difficulty.

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It is ageist - there's no reason why someone in their twenties or younger couldn't have a medical condition that results in the same symptoms.

Personally I agree about 5p pieces but you linked that to an inability to check whether they were getting a reasonable broadband deal and that's being ageist.

Manual dexterity and mental ability aren't linked - ask Stephen Hawking.

"It is ageist - there's no reason why someone in their twenties or younger couldn't have a medical condition that results in the same symptoms. "

I suggested that some pensioners have difficulty handling 5p pieces (a fact backed up by other posters in this thread) but did not exclude the possibility that others that might have similar difficulties.

You are being disingenuous at best.

The fact that something I suggested is true for one group does not infer that I believe it is untrue for another group, except to your mind.

"Personally I agree about 5p pieces but you linked that to an inability to check whether they were getting a reasonable broadband deal and that's being ageist.

Manual dexterity and mental ability aren't linked - ask Stephen Hawking. "

I think you are getting rather confused about what I posted.

I made no comment about pensioners in general nor their abilities or otherwise. I did say that many of the customers overpaying plus net might be poor pensioners - but that is essentially a characterisation of plus net's overpaying customers - not a characterisaton of pensioners. What's more, I was defending that group from being attacked as fools!!

The broad point is that people overpaying plus net are not necessarily fools - they are just in unfortunate circumstances.

Or, to put it another way, calling overpaying plus net customers "fools" is another case of overpaying-plus-net-customer-ism, which we see far too often on these forums.

Well, the reason for painting the scenario as I did was to counter the very harsh accusations that this particular group of customers are "fools."

People overpaying plus net are not, as some would like to characterize them, fools, but are often people who are merely poorly informed. My scenario is one example of that, but there are certainly others, I suspect.

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I did say that many of the customers overpaying plus net might be poor pensioners

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You're just digging yourself into a deepening hole.

"You're just digging yourself into a deepening hole. "

No, I'm just standing by what I already stated.

You seem to be in denial that there are many vulnerable groups in society, including a significant number of pensioners, who aren't as up to speed with some things as you might be. These people do not deserve to be characterised as "fools" on this board simply because they don't shop around for a broadband connection on a regular basis.

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No, I'm just standing by what I already stated.

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Which, taking you back to the post I objected to seems to be this.

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Many of them are probably poor pensioners who can barely hold 5p pieces in their cold, frail hands but are still paying plus net over the odds because someone who recommended plus net, and got them signed up, hasn't bothered or hasn't remembered to tell them to switch products to the more competitively priced alternatives. Maybe that's because they are too busy counting their referral payments.

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A great many will see this as an attempt to gain sympathy for your arguments by attempting to paint a picture of an elderly arthritic pensioner being ripped off by someone who has put them with PlusNet for their own financial gain.

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You seem to be in denial that there are many vulnerable groups in society, including a significant number of pensioners, who aren't as up to speed with some things as you might be. These people do not deserve to be characterised as "fools" on this board simply because they don't shop around for a broadband connection on a regular basis.

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I have to say ...cannot you be a tad more condescending to the aged.. The "not up to speed" bit was good but you can do better. Be warned a lot of silver surfers on this BBS, they don't take prisoners.

Interesting you suggest that people are being "characterised as "fools" on this board" that is an implication that you have drawn as there is no direct accusation that I have read.

You don't think perhaps people who have requested to opt out of marketing but who get it anyway (its good for them see) would be being treated like fools.

A semi serious point about vulnerable people. You help them by empowering them and not getting them to rely on others. The more they rely on others the more any skills they have atrophy and the person providing the "help" has the power.

Been there done that, give the individual the power not the organisation.

One of the many reasons that I left Pn was because I had been left on a legacy product that I had had for several years, it carried, a large download, sort of 18GB and I used 0.5GB a month, but when i signed up for the product it was the only product. I had no idea how much usage I had and did not realise that a massive amount of surfing cost little bandwidth, so I assumed I was on the right product. When I did seriously check, I thought that PN should have taken some initiative to tell longstanding customers that times had changed and that the old product may not suit them.....and I had not opted out of receiving information.

I felt a bit like being a hustle. But I guess many companies do similar things, just sad that PN have not changed in some respects and have not chosen the more moral business practices instead those of Arthur Daley type companies.

What he doesn't seem to realise is that his silly post said more about himself than the point he was trying to make. His frantic digging of the hole he is in has only made things worse!

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Interesting you suggest that people are being "characterised as "fools" on this board" that is an implication that you have drawn as there is no direct accusation that I have read.

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I'll plump for this one. If you don't review your finances on a regular basis then you most certainly are foolish. If you do, then you are likely Foolish too. If a business buys a service they should review it on a yearly basis to check they're getting what they want from the service. The same applies to home users too. I think a six montly/yearly check for an ISP is quite prudent given the stability in the wholesale market.

Apply the same logic to the energy market. I moved back to BG 15 months ago (they were the cheapest at the time) and in fifteen months they've had five different online energy tariffs. The speed of migration in the energy market is around one to two months. No sooner have you received a bill on a new tariff then you've got to migrate to another tariff because its better value. Its utter madness. The energy market is a minefield even for the switched on.

And don't think about moving money out of that ISA until you've read the small print. You'll likely lose half your yearly interest.

TT

I never said anyone was stupid but we can all be foolish if we rely on a company to do the right thing by us as sometimes they won't. I sent my gran a link to your post, I'm afraid the censor thingy will stop me writing what she said about you, the poor pensioner has spoken!

Jelv,

Your characterisation of these unfortuntates as "lazy" (in the other thread) says plenty about your attitude towards those in our communities who, for whatever reason, are unable to keep on top of PN's latest product redesigns. Your lack of compassion for these people is startling.

"A great many will see this as an attempt to gain sympathy for your arguments by attempting to paint a picture of an elderly arthritic pensioner being ripped off by someone who has put them with PlusNet for their own financial gain. "

Bingo!

That is precisely what I was doing.

Essentially all I am saying is that it is wrong to brand anyone who isn't on top of the latest pricing policies as "lazy" or "fools" as has been done numerous times on this board in the last few days. I was painting one alternative reality which might apply to some of the group currently overpaying BT PN; this wasn't a statement about the elderly in general, but just an alternative characterisation of the type of people that might be paying too much for their product. Other alternative characterisations are also available. However, simply branding the group as lazy fools is the most sweeping and damning characterisation of all.

I think your missing the point, its not difficult to be on top of broadband pricing, a check once a year would probably be sufficient as its usually a wholesale price change that starts the ball rolling and they are not happening daily.

I find it difficult to see why people remain ill-informed about PNs products, it is clearly presented on their website, after all we are talking about a service that gives them access to a hugh about of information but its up to them whether they use it, not PN. If they also opt-out of email, then as they have to make alternative arrangements.

There are people on the older products, I have no idea how many and I suspect neither do you, but there are choices if they are not happy about the value for money aspected of the product they are on and only the individual can make the call about value for money, PN can not so that for them.

I do understand your angle and PR100, but your looking at the world through rose-tinted glasses, and the reality is very different, welcome to rip off Britain.

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That is precisely what I was doing.

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You seem incapable of seeing that using that argument is insulting to the elderly and causes offence.

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Other alternative characterisations are also available.

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Shame you didn't use one then.

OK If it is not laziness when announcements of new products is emailed to them and details of all current products is one click away from the portal what is it? B......d if I know!

Well as I explained elsewhere, when I was on a legacy product I just did not understand what was being said in their hype adverts and did not think that they applied to me, through that lack of understanding.

We are not all clued up to understand BB width and all the terminology that often goes with new products.

Also in those days I had some misplaced trust in any ISP, green perhaps you would have called me then, with little knowledge. Not much more knowledge now but not so green.

But I don't think you could call that being lazy

I trust the "B......d" in your post was because you were too lazy to spell out "blowed" and not a way of trying to circumvent the swear filter.

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We are not all clued up to understand BB width and all the terminology that often goes with new products

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I agree but this and the other thread has all been about money and getting value for money, I think it fair to say we all understand that?

Well there seems to me to be a fair debate here about why some people do not pick up on the new products and sprinkled with what lengths PN should go to in order to acquaint people with the most suitable product.

Yes and it sounds like you knew of the products unlike one OP in a another thread, its another kettle of fish about understand the technical differences but surely you could have consider the new products from a value for money point of view then asked for a clear explaination?
If you didn't see value for money from what was being offered for you, but it would have been better for you to switch then PN failed their customer. I think they managed a much job with the technical aspects of BBYW set of products this time round.

Not quite that simple.

I seemed to surf night and day, but had little comprehension that in reality I used a tiny amount of GB in a month, actually less than 1GB, so when I knew I was on 18GB, I actually thought that I used that amount with all the surfing I did, so why would I check. Yes I made wrong assumptions, but that was because of lack of knowledge. If you looked back far enough you would find me asking how I could use all that GB if being on the net night and day only used less than 1GB.

What is being questioned is that if someone, not necessarily through laziness, is on the wrong product, should they be advised of that? Certainly PN would be thought more of if they did advise people. Not doing so led me to feel very cheated and that led me to looking a little more carefully at PN generally and, at that time, what one saw was not pretty. But, whilst my experiences were a while ago, and I do not want to run that bit of history, people are still on old products which are now not suitable and also costly and PN may advertise new products, but could go further and advise individuals of the facts, because they just may not have the knowledge to see how the new products would give them better value for money.

For me its all about responsibility for spending your own money, Yes a lack of knowledge can be a problem, but thats why sites like this exist. It becomes very difficult for an ISP to advise someone they are on the wrong package purely based on bandwidth as there maybe elements of the package they need like VPN etc If they emailed you saying you were on the wrong product and you move but then find you can't do something, who's fault is that? but if they email someone else with more understanding, the response might be 'stop telling me I'm on the wrong product I'm not I need X'.......either way the ISP is seen at fault. Its very complex problem.

PN give the tools to monitor your useage and they are good enough to make an assessment, perhaps its just me but if someone gives me a tool to check something a use it a couple of times to see if its of any use.

A big problem for me I don't know how many are on the old products and why they are? is it like you a lack of understanding, is it just wanting to wait and see (like I was) or is it an informed choice? Only PN can tell us that, perhaps PN should have a campaign aimed at old product users, maybe that is the ethnical thing to do and would set them apart from a lot of other ISPs.

Mobile phones can be a similar trap, a lot of people pay over the odds on contracts.