Why is it so hard?

...for Plusnet to tell me what my target SNR is currently?

The chap I spoke to this morning tried hard, bless him, but was told by one of his colleagues that "it varies between 6-15dB". Well yes, I know that.... I just want to know what is set to NOW.

Grrrrr.......

Good honest broadband from Yorkshire lol

It may show up in your router logs, at the time you last connected.

Alternatively read your router stats immediately after you force a reconnection - it will be within 0.5dB of 3, 6, 9, 12 or 15 which are the possible settings.

@Robertos

Thanks, that was what I expected so as it shows 8.5dB, I'll assume that the target SNR is set to 9dB

I just don't see why Plusnet can't tell me. It can't be that hard?

Hi FarmerGilesUK,

Can you PM your username to me and I'll find out for you.

Jojo

Thanks Joanne

If it's a SpeedTouch router, which I think Plusnet ones are, then the reporting steps are 0.5dB anyway, so you are only one step away from 9dB in those stats. So presumably a fall of 0.26dB could have caused that, and that's quite a normal change in a few seconds.

Hi FarmerGilesUK,

I've just checked the BT system and it's definitely 9dB.

Jojo

Thank you Joanne

Good honest broadband from Yorkshire my foot. Got a Plusnet marketing email offering a few months "Free" internet if I signed up with them � I should coco.
60GB download limit, 12 month tie-in if I take a £30 rubbish router, a £25 broadband connection fee, I assume even with a mac code, which will be waived if i sign up for a year AND take their phone service.
Anyone that swapped my £26.5p 30 day tie-in unlimited download broadband & phone package for such a downgrade, would need to get booked in for some deep therapy.

I think A 'few months free' broadband and then phone and broadband from £18.48 a month is a great deal. You can use any compatible router and don't have to purchase our one; Indeed one of the unique differences in the market is our no contract option, as we believe we offer such a good service we don't need tie-ins. Also, unlimited broadband is not at the top of everyone's shopping list and bearing in mind the latest batch of awards we have just won we must be doing something right.

Like anything in life though you're not going to meet everyone's expectations and I'm sorry if your experience of plusnet hasn't been a positive one.

Jojo

I am not sure where you get £18 odd from. £11.49 for a 60GB usage broadband with evening & W/E calls, plus £11.99 for line rental is £23.48 in my book for a very limited service I would use in a week. Like all the up the price get this free offers nowadays, there is the penalty for non-direct debit which I don't get, no free weekend calls to mobiles & 40 countries which I do get. How can you say you don't tie users in when you tie them down for a year over a [censored] £30 router, and as for a £25 broadband connection charge, that takes the biscuit � Oh I forgot, you will waive it if users are tied in for a year AND take your phone. More smoke & mirrors than Tescon.

In reply to a post by m0aur:

I am not sure where you get £18 odd from.

Line rental and Plusnet Value I presume, although I don't know how Plusnet get away with claiming that the 'Value' package is 'Up to 20Mb' broadband considering the very restrictive traffic management that is in place.

Edited by deleted (Thu 07-Apr-11 02:05:06)

There is only one option for those that sell it cheap � Pile �em high, which equates to a contention bottleneck.
Oh � I nearly forgot; While I was checking out what Plusnet could offer me, their line checker said that BT information assured them I could get a 11mb service, that may go as high as 15mb!!
FIRSTLY, I am 1 mile-ish away from an 8mb exchange. My test result below shows the quality of my line, and EVERY other ISP has correctly sussed my line capability. So, as far as I am concered, Plusnet are either totally incompetent, or deliberately misleading.
Link to Incompetence

Edited by deleted (Thu 07-Apr-11 13:28:13)

In reply to a post by m0aur:

I am not sure where you get £18 odd from. £11.49 for a 60GB usage broadband with evening & W/E calls, plus £11.99 for line rental is £23.48 in my book for a very limited service I would use in a week.

a) if you get some months free then it takes the total cost over 12 months down, so may explain the 18.xx

b) As for it being a "limited service" and that you'd use 60 GB in a week, I'll have to assume you'd never schedule downloads in the 00:00-08:00 slot. Don't see it as being limited myself !

Firstly, with Post Office Broadband being unlimited, I don't need to have things running half the night to get round a limited service, and secondly, why should I. Even cash-grab hungry BT are dropping their very generous 300gb download limit. If you cannot see that 60gb limit is "Limited" compared with what is on offer cheaper elsewhere, you need an eye test. Forums are a little like football and politics, in that there are always the anoraks that will defend the indefensible.

Edited by deleted (Sun 10-Apr-11 08:47:45)

post deleted by Mr cleverdick

Edited by deleted (Sun 10-Apr-11 16:11:35)

In reply to a post by reserved:

In reply to a post by m0aur:

FIRSTLY, I am 1 mile-ish away from an 8mb exchange. My test result below shows the quality of my line, and EVERY other ISP has correctly sussed my line capability.
Link to Incompetence

If you are getting 7.06Mb/s on a 8mb exchange then you must be closer than 1 mile or you've got a gold plated pair of wires!

What's your exchange?

I don' see what my exchange has to do with it, unless you think I am too stupid to know it's capability and location in relation to me. Anyway Mr cleverdick, here it is:- http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EAGLE I am at the other end of the village not far from the Bells Lane/Brook Street junction. So possibly you could tell me the route the copper takes. I will give you a clue, in that despite my distance, I sync to the exchange at the full 8128kbps which gives me a line profile of 7150kbps. My speed never drops below 6500kbps even at peak times unless I mess about stopping & starting routers, though I expect you already know that. If you have a problem, complain to the Post Office customer Services, they usually answer second ring. It is surprising what you can get for 26 quid all in.
Evening TBB Speed Test, which is usually a little lower due to giving an average.

Edited by deleted (Sun 10-Apr-11 13:08:44)

1) I was unaware of what you get as service from Post Office broadband. If it offers a static IP, I may even be interested, when my options are open for me to switch (not tied by Plusnet, but as my BT line was 'installed' for free, am locked to BT for line rental for a while yet).

2) point taken, BT is cancelling its limit, but hardly compares, price-wise with what I pay for PN Extra, and meets my needs without me needing to consider PN being a "limited service". I happily download 100 to 200 GB a month, but don't see the quantity of data as being "limited" and a 60 GB peak "limit" seems more than enough for many families.

If you consider that 60 GB is a dreadful limitation, can one ask just how much traffic your connection passes during an average month?

3) OK, I've not been looking widely (because where I am, some LLU services are not available, and for the phone line reasons already mentioned). Pound for pound, apart from BT and the Post Office, do you have a few other names where one can get 60GB or more for a similar or lower monthly cost?

I open that question to anyone, not "getting at you" for suggesting it is possible, but without spending the rest of the weekend hunting for such deals, I doubt I'll come up with any better deals as quickly as asking... And yes, I probably do need a fresh eye test, though they're serving me well enough for now...

4) For your information, I'm not an "anorak" nor will I defend the indefensible - I can and have been critical of PN when I've felt there are issues. This to me isn't such a big issue as it is to you, perhaps, and since you've pointed to what you get from the Post Office service, I am far from dismissing the possibility of using that service instead.


From your posting name, I assume that's your UK Amateur Radio callsign.

Perhaps a good thing I stopped using the bands some years ago (mid-80s) as I suspect from your attitude you may enjoy "banter" that verges on argument, given the tone used in your post responding to mine...

In reply to a post by ultra:

1) I was unaware of what you get as service from Post Office broadband. If it offers a static IP, I may even be interested, when my options are open for me to switch (not tied by Plusnet, but as my BT line was 'installed' for free, am locked to BT for line rental for a while yet).

2) point taken, BT is cancelling its limit, but hardly compares, price-wise with what I pay for PN Extra, and meets my needs without me needing to consider PN being a "limited service". I happily download 100 to 200 GB a month, but don't see the quantity of data as being "limited" and a 60 GB peak "limit" seems more than enough for many families.

If you consider that 60 GB is a dreadful limitation, can one ask just how much traffic your connection passes during an average month?

3) OK, I've not been looking widely (because where I am, some LLU services are not available, and for the phone line reasons already mentioned). Pound for pound, apart from BT and the Post Office, do you have a few other names where one can get 60GB or more for a similar or lower monthly cost?

I open that question to anyone, not "getting at you" for suggesting it is possible, but without spending the rest of the weekend hunting for such deals, I doubt I'll come up with any better deals as quickly as asking... And yes, I probably do need a fresh eye test, though they're serving me well enough for now...

4) For your information, I'm not an "anorak" nor will I defend the indefensible - I can and have been critical of PN when I've felt there are issues. This to me isn't such a big issue as it is to you, perhaps, and since you've pointed to what you get from the Post Office service, I am far from dismissing the possibility of using that service instead.


From your posting name, I assume that's your UK Amateur Radio callsign.

Perhaps a good thing I stopped using the bands some years ago (mid-80s) as I suspect from your attitude you may enjoy "banter" that verges on argument, given the tone used in your post responding to mine...

As for usage, we have a couple of Wi-Fi Internet radios streaming 128kbps stations 24/7, so that's 80gb for a start. Also I refuse to subscribe to ripoff merchants like Sky, so watch all the sky sports we want for free on the web, along with Documentaries and of course plenty of iPlayer & 4OD etc, plus torrents and music tracks. As I am unlimited I don't know or care what my usage is, but when I was with BT in the 100gb days, could get an acidic email 10 days in. I don't even see peak throttling with the P.O.
Likewise I don't have much time for Amateur Radio these days, since the foundation license gave all bands in one weekend of study, it is pretty much like CB. As for my attitude, I simply don't suffer fools and forum anoraks that treat me as one gladly.

While it's the post office's business decision to sell unlimited for that price, please consider that that level of usage is entirely unsustainable at that price margin.

Why care? Well, if Post Office don't want to run at a loss, then I'd wait for traffic shaping or congestion to kick in. Sounds like you're using about 200GB a month. On the EAGLE exchange, that's not sustainable for anything under about £50-70 a month.

By all means, please carry on. But if/when the post office change their service, be prepared for a surprise when you try to find an ISP which can maintain that level of service.

In reply to a post by blueacid:

While it's the post office's business decision to sell unlimited for that price, please consider that that level of usage is entirely unsustainable at that price margin.

Why care? Well, if Post Office don't want to run at a loss, then I'd wait for traffic shaping or congestion to kick in. Sounds like you're using about 200GB a month. On the EAGLE exchange, that's not sustainable for anything under about £50-70 a month.

By all means, please carry on. But if/when the post office change their service, be prepared for a surprise when you try to find an ISP which can maintain that level of service.

Like anyone, I will take the best deal I can, and at the moment, no other ISP offers no contract tie in for line rental, no penalty for not using direct debit, over £7 discount for taking both services, free weekend calls to mobiles & 40 countries as well as the usual free off peak calls. Even the off peak hours are better than some. I don't think the Post Office are really worried about usage, after all, they are really just a cheaper re-badged BT, and of course, if they ever become a pain, I will simply jump ship again, but at the moment, the low contention rates leave me a happy bunny, and even BT are nowhere near your £70 per month for totally unlimited.

Edited by deleted (Sun 10-Apr-11 18:19:21)

I see your exchange should be 21CN WBC enabled,is it possible Plusnet are quoting an estimated adsl2+ speed.

Edited by deleted (Sun 10-Apr-11 19:10:14)

In reply to a post by hitachi:

I see your exchange should be 21CN WBC enabled,is it possible Plusnet are quoting an estimated adsk2+ speed.

You will see it has just been put RFS (Ready For Service), but I expect it will be at least the end of the year before we hear about 21CN WBC being enabled. We may be one of the largest villages in Suffolk with well over 2,000 properties, but you will see that Suffolk is rarely listed early on in a roll out, it was the same with being broadband enabled. Also, I should expect more than the Plusnet estimate of 11mb from a close 24mb exchange. Today, ADSL24 recognise the RFS status, but still only quote an 8mb service offer.

Edited by deleted (Sun 10-Apr-11 23:27:53)

Well, I don't see £18·40 either. Besides promising me at least 11mb from my 8mb exchange, the PN site plasters a "Find a cheaper standalone broadband & we will match it" in true Tescon style. Reality is, I get three months at £11·49, then it's £17·99. Just one problem � It won't work without line rental, and wherever you get it from, it makes the total for this limited 60gb service a darned sight dearer than my £26 all in unlimited dual service. So I take it, you will match it.

In reply to a post by m0aur:

Well, I don't see £18·40 either. Besides promising me at least 11mb from my 8mb exchange, the PN site plasters a "Find a cheaper standalone broadband & we will match it" in true Tescon style. Reality is, I get three months at £11·49, then it's £17·99. Just one problem � It won't work without line rental, and wherever you get it from, it makes the total for this limited 60gb service a darned sight dearer than my £26 all in unlimited dual service. So I take it, you will match it.

You yourself quoted that the price promise is for "standalone broadband". You seem to be then comparing it to broadband/phone bundle and asking them to match - seems that is not part of the matching promise.

In reply to a post by ian72:

In reply to a post by m0aur:

Well, I don't see £18·40 either. Besides promising me at least 11mb from my 8mb exchange, the PN site plasters a "Find a cheaper standalone broadband & we will match it" in true Tescon style. Reality is, I get three months at £11·49, then it's £17·99. Just one problem � It won't work without line rental, and wherever you get it from, it makes the total for this limited 60gb service a darned sight dearer than my £26 all in unlimited dual service. So I take it, you will match it.

You yourself quoted that the price promise is for "standalone broadband". You seem to be then comparing it to broadband/phone bundle and asking them to match - seems that is not part of the matching promise.

Of course it's not part of the price promise, and for a very good reason. The "We will match any standalone broadband" is like all tit-for-tat claims thrown among rivals, total rubbish.
My point though, is that the word "Standalone" should not be allowed, because there is no such thing at the moment in the UK. It will not work 'Standalone' without line rental from someone which then totals around £32 plus calls making it worse value & more limited than many, placing the competitive price claim on par with the Tesco 'Treble the Price then BOGOF'.

Edited by deleted (Thu 14-Apr-11 11:53:21)

That is like saying that fuel is essential to running a car and therefore the choice of which car to drive is not "standalone" to the choice of where you buy your petrol from.

Yes, a landline is required to get broadband but it does not have to be with the same company as you get the broadband from (except of course with Virgin cable and a few ISPs that will potentially force you to take their landline).

Therefore ADSL can be "standalone" as it does not have to be purchased with a specific landline package (in most cases).

EDIT to add:

And of course Plusnet cannot promise to compete with "packaged" deals on exchanges as companies can decide to cross-subsidise the broadband on other parts of the package (such as call charges for landline, charges for TV subscriptions, etc).

Edited by ian72 (Thu 14-Apr-11 14:20:17)

Hi folks,

in my original post I said you could get broadband and line rental from £18.48

That is...

£6.49 Plusnet Value Broadband
£11.99 Talk evening & Weekends line rental

Jojo

In reply to a post by ian72:

That is like saying that fuel is essential to running a car and therefore the choice of which car to drive is not "standalone" to the choice of where you buy your petrol from.

Yes, a landline is required to get broadband but it does not have to be with the same company as you get the broadband from (except of course with Virgin cable and a few ISPs that will potentially force you to take their landline).

Therefore ADSL can be "standalone" as it does not have to be purchased with a specific landline package (in most cases).

EDIT to add:

And of course Plusnet cannot promise to compete with "packaged" deals on exchanges as companies can decide to cross-subsidise the broadband on other parts of the package (such as call charges for landline, charges for TV subscriptions, etc).

I realise all of the above, so please don't treat me like an idiot. My point is STILL, that despite all the sales waffle, they are not the cheapest.

In reply to a post by jpilson:

Hi folks,

in my original post I said you could get broadband and line rental from £18.48

That is...

£6.49 Plusnet Value Broadband
£11.99 Talk evening & Weekends line rental

Jojo

And I would have thought that after my previous posts, it was obvious to a fool that I am not interested in limited services, even when described as "Value", but obviously not.
And your PLusnet incompetence even extends to the cost of the value service here. Why does forum pondlife know it all?
Incompetence
Which when added to the line rental, it is about the same price as my unlimited dual service with the Post Office. Buy an abacus, do the maths and face the fact you cannot compete, let alone better.

Edited by deleted (Thu 14-Apr-11 16:25:54)

In reply to a post by m0aur:

I realise all of the above, so please don't treat me like an idiot. My point is STILL, that despite all the sales waffle, they are not the cheapest.

Not treating you like an idiot. But obviously you know why things are as they are so why ask the question in the first place? Seems your posts were pointless and were you wanting to let off steam rather than have any conversation. Plusnet are advertising a product and as far as I can see the adverts are accurate and not misleading - you just don't like them.

The marketing spin from PN we won't be beaten on price is a load of rubbish

For example

PN Value on a market 1 exchange is
Total (inc. connection) for 12 month £161.38

Madasafish which a trading name of PN

Madasafish MAX 5GB on market 1 exchange
Total (inc. connection) for 12 month £149.88

£ 11.50 cheaper over 12 month

So you have been beaten on price as i have shown, yet even worse as it is a PN product , yet PN choose to market a product that they know for a fact is not the cheapest standalone broadband in the uk (over 12 month).

My question to PN is why are you saying a packages is the cheapest when one of your other packages is cheapest as a standalone product?

In reply to a post by punto11:

The marketing spin from PN we won't be beaten on price is a load of rubbish

For example

PN Value on a market 1 exchange is
Total (inc. connection) for 12 month £161.38

Madasafish which a trading name of PN

Madasafish MAX 5GB on market 1 exchange
Total (inc. connection) for 12 month £149.88

£ 11.50 cheaper over 12 month

So you have been beaten on price as i have shown, yet even worse as it is a PN product , yet PN choose to market a product that they know for a fact is not the cheapest standalone broadband in the uk (over 12 month).

My question to PN is why are you saying a packages is the cheapest when one of your other packages is cheapest as a standalone product?

You get a 10GB usage allowance with the PN Value package whereas the Madasafish MAX package has a 5GB usage allowance, so that's perhaps why maaf is cheaper.

I am aware of the 10GB on Value but the PN checker is comparing products only on price not usage, so usage is irrelevant.


My point still remains PN is beaten on price by its own product, but yet markets another as been the cheapest standalone, which is completely untrue as i have shown above

The following quote can be found in here

Stuff you need to know

Broadband price promise

No matter where you live in the UK, we'll provide you with the lowest cost standalone broadband in your area. Standalone means the price for 'just broadband' without phone or TV bundled in. You'll still need a landline to get our service, but we'll tell you if yours is compatible with our broadband when we check your number.

The price promise is on Plusnet Value Broadband versus the lowest cost standalone broadband product available from a competitor. It covers the total cost of broadband (subscription + setup costs) over the competitor contract length, up to 24 months.

If you do find a cheaper price for standalone broadband just give us a call on 0845 140 0200 and we'll beat it. You need to be able to show our sales team where you found the cheaper price and it must be available publicly.

Yes I see what you mean

In reply to a post by punto11:

Madasafish MAX 5GB on market 1 exchange
Total (inc. connection) for 12 month £149.88

Where do you get that figure? MAAF 5GB is £9.99 for 3 months then £14.99 thereafter.

So:
9.99 x 3 = £29.97
14.99 x 9 = £134.91
Total over 12 months = £164.88

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by punto11:

Madasafish MAX 5GB on market 1 exchange
Total (inc. connection) for 12 month £149.88

Where do you get that figure? MAAF 5GB is £9.99 for 3 months then £14.99 thereafter.

So:
9.99 x 3 = £29.97
14.99 x 9 = £134.91
Total over 12 months = £164.88

Quite - plus the connection charge. OK, so you'll probably get it reduced to £9.99 a month after 12 months if you ask, but the price is still higher than Plusnet Value as advertised.