Why is Plusnet's availability checker so complicated?

It asks for postcode and phone number. If I do this, it says I already have Plusnet broadband. If I go down the option of have no phone line, it wants my home address.

Why can't I just see what speeds Plusnet would tell me for my address? The products are sold as 'up to 20Mb', but I get 8Mb. The majority of exchanges are not 20Mb capable, hence, the majority of customers will receive sub 8 Meg rather than sub 20 Meg, so the advertising is misleading.

Not interested in any other ISP's advertising, since I'm not with any other company.

Other questions. What is Plusnet doing with regards to passing ADSL2+ requests to BT? I occasionally mention it here, as others do. Is there a an avenue for requesting/complaining to BT regards the lack of ADSL2+ provision? It's all gone FTTx for many, but it will not happen for most exchanges in the next five years I reckon, so ADSL2+ is the only short to medium term option. For many it might be a solution. Who on earth can the punters bother to get some info/action on this?

Plusnet only tells you what the BT Wholesale availability checker would tell you, then interprets the results, so enter your phone number at https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html

Hi there,

When you do a BB only line check we take the postcode in case the telephone number returns useless results (if it's an LLU number, cable, ceased line etc). You can only have one broadband service per line, so if you're already with us there's no point in completing a sign up (I know you weren't intending to, but if you could that would cause system issues).

If you say you have no phone line we check your address as that's the first step in phone line provision, it also means we can check what the installation costs would be to put a phone line in for you.

Re ADSL2+ there isn't a massive amount we can do to persuade BT to upgrade an exchange, however BT is planning to upgrade all exchanges to 21CN over the next year or two, so it will happen sooner or later.

In reply to a post by mand_beckett:

When you do a BB only line check we take the postcode in case the telephone number returns useless results (if it's an LLU number, cable, ceased line etc). You can only have one broadband service per line, so if you're already with us there's no point in completing a sign up (I know you weren't intending to, but if you could that would cause system issues).

If you say you have no phone line we check your address as that's the first step in phone line provision, it also means we can check what the installation costs would be to put a phone line in for you.

My point was to see if Plusnet's systems were going to suggest I can have up to 20 Meg. In other words, why is 20 Meg being advertised when it's more than likely not going to happen?

In reply to a post by mand_beckett:

Re ADSL2+ there isn't a massive amount we can do to persuade BT to upgrade an exchange, however BT is planning to upgrade all exchanges to 21CN over the next year or two, so it will happen sooner or later.

I'm not asking for Plusnet to ask BT about my exchange (it would be nice, but obviously not realistic). I'm concerned that the demand (from me and many others) is not reaching BT's ears. There's no channel of communication from the consumers to the wholesaler. The wholesaler supplies what it perceives to be the demand which is based on existing setups. It does not get information on how many people from 'x' exchanges are asking, querying or demanding 21CN. Arguably everyone from all exchanges would want it, but it would make sense to prioritise in places where FTTx is not planned, places which might benefit from more directly than others etc.

Usually companies look to providing a product if the demand is there. In the case of ADSL2+ it will be of little or no added profit, for some outlay, and potentially result in increased loss of capacity, so I am of the opinion that ADSL2+ will not be coming to many exchanges at all. It's a repeat of the Market 1, 2 problem. There's only demand if the existing supplier listens, and they are not interested (or are they asking ISPs to pass on 21CN demands?).

All of our products have a headline speed of upto 20Mb, because that's what most people will get. The line check is there to show you what speed you're likely to get on your line. I don't know of a better way to make that clear on signup without muddying the product proposition.

Re your point about exchanges, I understand what you're saying. Worth bearing in mind though that 21CN is planned to replace the old IPStream network, so all exchanges will be upgraded within the next few years.

In reply to a post by mand_beckett:

All of our products have a headline speed of upto 20Mb, because that's what most people will get

That's a bit confusing. What will the other (ie not most) people get ?

ADSL (up to 8Mb), or for the chosen few FTTC (up to 40Mb).

So you actually have three 'Headline Speeds'. Yet chose to promote the 20meg that some people will get, without reference to the 8meg that most people will get.

I don't know of a better way to make that clear on signup without muddying the product proposition.

All of our products have a headline speed of upto 20Mb as long as your exchange has 21CN WBC status

In reply to a post by mand_beckett:

All of our products have a headline speed of upto 20Mb, because that's what most people will get....

Worth bearing in mind though that 21CN is planned to replace the old IPStream network, so all exchanges will be upgraded within the next few years.

Can you find the figures indicating what numbers of exchanges are now 21CN, please?

If possible, is there a way of finding the number of lines they provide, too?

SamKnows had some estimates of the number of homes within X km (but it was only broken down for a firm offering LLU, so they might say Company Y serves 1,234 exchanges and then give some other figures (possibly lines or possibly just % within 2km)

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchanges/bt/wbc

In reply to a post by mand_beckett:

All of our products have a headline speed of upto 20Mb, because that's what most people will get.

Do you mean most people will get up to 20 Meg, including all the ones who get a few 100 K? Really a non-statement!

Or do you mean most people will get 20 Meg? A blatantly untrue statement, as not that many people live adjacent to the exchange.

Neither interpretation holds water. So what did you mean?

In reply to a post by ultra:

Can you find the figures indicating what numbers of exchanges are now 21CN, please?

If possible, is there a way of finding the number of lines they provide, too?

This page shows the number of households who can get ADSL2+ increasing from 55% (circa 14m) in April 2010 to 80% (circa 20m) by the end of 2011.

The 80% target was publically announced in April and once its been done I expect BT will continue to roll it out to more exchanges

FWIW I believe different parts of BT are responsible for rolling out FTTC and ADSL2+.

Regards
Sunil

Sorry, reading that back I can see how it's confusing in the context of this thread.

What I meant was that the majority will be provisioned on ADSL2+, so will have a maximum speed of 20Mb.

The samknows information linked to in this thread is the most recently published info.

Thanks for that.

Thanks for the links.

Shame they cannot roll out FTTC as fast as they plan for NI !!

Good to see you on here {old regular on uk.telecom [.*] }

In reply to a post by kasg:

Plusnet only tells you what the BT Wholesale availability checker would tell you, then interprets the results, so enter your phone number at https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html

BT Wholesale is rather conned, misleading and they just put a limit cap at 8Mbps at the exchange even thought it can go up to 24 Meg but BT doesn't want you to know this. BT are a [censored] to be honest.

In reply to a post by mand_beckett:

Re ADSL2+ there isn't a massive amount we can do to persuade BT to upgrade an exchange, however BT is planning to upgrade all exchanges to 21CN over the next year or two, so it will happen sooner or later.

That's load of rubbish talk, of course BT can uncap 8Mbps at the exchange to 24Mbps. BT doesn't want us to know, that a true fact. My mate's friend who work for BT Wholesale, say all exchanges in UK do support up to 24 Meg but BT just cap the limit speed at the exchange is rather misleading. BT don't care about customers want ADSL2+ and what the point of wait for next year or 2! BT are the worst behind in Europe.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

... of course BT can uncap 8Mbps at the exchange to 24Mbps. BT doesn't want us to know, that a true fact. My mate's friend who work for BT Wholesale, say all exchanges in UK do support up to 24 Meg but BT just cap the limit speed at the exchange ...

Ummm.

So if I tell people that I know of a poster on an internet forum, who claims he has a mate, who has a friend, who works (perhaps as a canteen assistant), for BT Wholesale, that something is a true fact, (as opposed to an untrue fact, which in itself is an interesting concept), then that would be a useful contribution to a discussion?

Repeating the farcical bit I just quoted, so as to put the rest that I now quote in context:-

My mate's friend who work for BT Wholesale, say all exchanges in UK do support up to 24 Meg but BT just cap the limit speed at the exchange is rather misleading. BT don't care about customers want ADSL2+ and what the point of wait for next year or 2!

From "is misleading" onwards is just gibberish.

The final sentence, "BT are the worst behind in Europe", could I suppose be a euphemism .

Congratulations! You have been awarded the prize for the post containing the most complete and utter twaddle in 2011.

A useful link, Kevin, TVM.

Entering my number it reported:
"Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 3Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 2.5Mbps and 6.5Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 500Kbps and downstream line speed of 3Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 2.5Mbps and 6.5Mbps.

Your cabinet is planned to have WBC FTTC by 30th September 2011. Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 9.9Mbps and upstream line speed of 3.8Mbps."

Currently my download speeds are in the 5 Mbs region (using the PN supplied Thomson router) which is not exactly lightening fast though better than many.

Checked wifi output with inSSider which actually showed the PN router to be better than my other HH2.

Meldrew

Looks like you can get FTTC then?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Looks like you can get FTTC then?

No for several reasons....

1) It has a date (30th Sept) which means it's not yet available and because its the end of the month, that date is still a wild guess.
2) The FTTC speeds are below the current minimum threshold of 15Mbs DS (I think) so they are not likely to enable it anyway.

Edited by deleted (Tue 21-Jun-11 20:11:11)

1) Sorry, I didn't notice the beginning where it gives the date, just the bit that gives the speed estimate.

2) You are a victim of BT's advertising. Infinity from BT Retail has a 15Mbps estimate cutoff. They also provide, ( if you ask the right people), Broadband Option 3 with Fibre for estimates below that, I expect as low as 5Mbps as that is the Openreach current lowest provision.

2a) Many, maybe all, of the ones on my list will order the 15+Mbps product with estimates as low 12Mbps, and some will order the 5+Mbps one - as mentioned in the list.