TG585 v7 failing ???

Hi All

I have the Thomson TG585 v7 and it has been AOK for a goodly while however I have noticed of late a change in the way it has been functioning!

I now typically enjoy (???) uptimes of well in excess of 20 days before something external triggers a sync discon/recon.

In the past when I may have done a cold restart the router will reaquire the sync and auto reconnect the Internet as per the setup.

However, these past approx 7 days the Router has warm rebooted twice of its own accord and reaquired the sync (interestingly at a slightly lower level than had held for as mentioned a good 20 days) but refuses to 'auto reconnect' ~ Connection Mode still shows as "Always On" !!!! The reason I know this is that I lose the Internet and have to access the GUI to manually 'press' the "connect" button.

So, is this an example of the router starting to fail....................happy to dig out my old Netgear which I only replaced with the Thomson because PlusNet insisted would reveal the Netgear was at fault (look at earlier posts :lol ) but the performance of the Thomson never showed anything of the sort IMO. However, back to the point is such behaviour of the Thomson indicative of it having a fault???

TIA

Edited by deleted (Sat 16-Jul-11 18:23:03)

You haven't moved it, or put it on something soft that could restrict airflow? They also like to be on a tilt to promote flow through them.

Do you ever let it have an overnight rest?

Might be worth checking every physical connection to it is secure, at both ends of that connection, preferably by unplugging both ends and re-connecting. Including intermediate junctions such as a dangly filter - do this all the way back to the master (or extension) main socket.

A factory reset is often a good thing to try as well. There is a hole at the back needing the end of a paper-clip or similar pushed it gently but firmly, when the router is already on, and held for 7-10 seconds; until the lights start to flash.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You haven't moved it, or put it on something soft that could restrict airflow? They also like to be on a tilt to promote flow through them.

Do you ever let it have an overnight rest?

Might be worth checking every physical connection to it is secure, at both ends of that connection, preferably by unplugging both ends and re-connecting. Including intermediate junctions such as a dangly filter - do this all the way back to the master (or extension) main socket.

A factory reset is often a good thing to try as well. There is a hole at the back needing the end of a paper-clip or similar pushed it gently but firmly, when the router is already on, and held for 7-10 seconds; until the lights start to flash.

Hi RobertoS

Thanks for the feedback & insight.

Nothing has been changed to its location ~ it has always been on its side since setup so that air does not get trapped as a hot spot under or around it.

I rarely powerdown unless on holiday so it is on 24/7 as for the replugging of every terminal, no bad idea to just make sure everything is 'tight' but such an action does not explain why it has done those "warm resets" of its own accord and then fail to auto reconnect even though the sync has been re-established!

Factory reset ~ hmmmmm, now in general terms that surely is a last resort???

TIA

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

Factory reset ~ hmmmmm, now in general terms that surely is a last resort???

Actually in this sort of situation it is very often the quickest cure. Router firmware can get corrupted both in memory and the normal chip holding it. A power surge on the mains for example. A factory reset loads a backup copy into the normal chip.

You will possibly need to re-input the logon details afterwards. If you have tailored settings for ports and so on, easiest is to find the Backup menu entry and back up the config to disc. Then restore it after the reset. It isn't usually the config itself that is corrupted. That I expect would also preserve the logon details.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

Factory reset ~ hmmmmm, now in general terms that surely is a last resort???

Actually in this sort of situation it is very often the quickest cure. Router firmware can get corrupted both in memory and the normal chip holding it. A power surge on the mains for example. A factory reset loads a backup copy into the normal chip.

You will possibly need to re-input the logon details afterwards. If you have tailored settings for ports and so on, easiest is to find the Backup menu entry and back up the config to disc. Then restore it after the reset. It isn't usually the config itself that is corrupted. That I expect would also preserve the logon details.

Need to check the 'backup' actions available because yes I have setup various (though the Thomson is somewhat limited compared to the Netgear) elements including fixed IPs for some devices and of course the Wireless settings with its SSID and password settings.

Hmmmm! whilst I was checking the optiosn it did another Kernel Warm Restart.

And now sync T 3136, was 3488

FWIW one of the options is restore factory settings!

Most likely cause is a failing Power Supply. IIRC, the 585V7 uses a 30V a.c. PSU. I could check for you but not while the Midges are on the warpath and it is a 5 metre dash to the Garage.

mines the same a good router overall but after three years seams to drop off and will have to look for a replacement

Hi All

After a couple of go's doing a hard reset because I could not get into the GUI ~ because I had set the PC to a fixed IP of a revised gateway IP I had to dive into the properties to revert to "auto" ~ Homer Simpson time

Now sorted and back to my prefered settings after restoring the backup. FWIW the backup does not store the Wireless security password it reverts to some sort of default!!!

The sync is slightly higher ~ back to 3360, I think the varied weather of late has depressed the level somewhat???

Also more significantly as per my issue it auto reconnected ~ result!!!!

As for the power brick ~ well lets see how this gets on over the next couple of weeks?

I may yet upgrade the Router to something with a better GUI & control (but what make & model for my sort of quite long line attenuation is 55db) but for now will wait.

Thanks for the input and hope it may help others with similar issues?



PS So Nick what make & model Router will you be going for???

Edited by deleted (Sun 17-Jul-11 01:11:08)

It is likely my imagination??? But the web pages do seem to be loading much whizzzier than of late.

It does sound like the firmware or other internals had just got in a knot. A re-connection during daylight will probably be quite a bit faster. Then of course the IP Profile has to catch up - though if you are on ADSL2+ and one of the lucky ones (so far) that can be almost immediate on the BT side of things.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It does sound like the firmware or other internals had just got in a knot. A re-connection during daylight will probably be quite a bit faster. Then of course the IP Profile has to catch up - though if you are on ADSL2+ and one of the lucky ones (so far) that can be almost immediate on the BT side of things.

Yup, I will do a reboot/resync nearer midday

Sadly no ADSL+2 here, my exchange in that regard seems like it is in the dark ages. No planned date for +2, no mention of FTTC and only a shortish while back got Talk Talk as an LLU supplier!!!

Hi

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Actually in this sort of situation it is very often the quickest cure. Router firmware can get corrupted both in memory and the normal chip holding it. A power surge on the mains for example. A factory reset loads a backup copy into the normal chip.

You will possibly need to re-input the logon details afterwards. If you have tailored settings for ports and so on, easiest is to find the Backup menu entry and back up the config to disc. Then restore it after the reset. It isn't usually the config itself that is corrupted. That I expect would also preserve the logon details.

A factory reset does not reload the firmware, it simply clears and restores to default the configuration file(s) held in a bit non-volatile storage, so when it restarts all settings are restored back to factory settings.

It is also unlilkely the firmware has become corrupted while still allowing the box to mostly function but sometimes crash.

The usual cause of software reboots on these types of kit after they have worked well is they wear out. Usually the capacitors that condition the voltages dry up in the heat of the box so electrical noise increases and this causes various random problems. Yes increasing airflow and cooling might help make the box more stable once the problems occur however the damage has already been done.

Typically consumer grade routers used 24/7 last 12-24 months before they start to degrade. Symptoms include dropping the connection more often, lower sync speeds, failure to sync, random crashes and locking up, problems powering on (might take several goes) and all sorts of other flaky behaviour.

Regards

Phil

I hear what you say, and you seem to know a lot more on the technical side there than me, but there have been a huge number of cases on these forums where backing up the config file, (after the problems start), doing a factory reset, and restoring the backed up file has fixed exactly the symptoms the OP described.

So given what you say, I would genuinely like the explanation for that happening.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 17-Jul-11 10:38:03)

To save your being eaten alive the rated power input is 22v

You might find this item of interest

http://community.plus.net/library/hardware/how-to-up...

Great added insight especially Phil.

I like to keep all my kit cool wherever possible such as my PC having fans that directly draw room air in over the hard drives

So with consumer grade routers we have a (potential) case of bulit in obsolescence because ot the manuafcaturers choice of materials at component level! Wonderfull ~ not

Right, based on the above and not wishing to go to the expense of "enterprise grade" kit are there any makes & models that one would deem "mid market" i.e. designed for 24/7 but with a longer life than consumer grade? If so what are they???

I do not mind paying for decent kit but like all folk want the sweetspot of right price for the right level tech and its expected 100% working lifespan

KIt that degrades due to the issues that Phil explains are not very good where such degradation can impact on the, in this case, ADSL service level achieved & maintained?

I would welcome any pointers and suggestions as to choices of new routers?

In reply to a post by nadger:

You might find this item of interest

http://community.plus.net/library/hardware/how-to-up...

Yes, an interesting read ~ mine has 7.4.4.7 firmware. Though as the saying goes if it ain't bust don't fix it :lol:

Oh and I do use a VPN to link to my offices system and so far that has worked AOK.

Edited by deleted (Sun 17-Jul-11 11:19:32)

One of the things the upgrade fixed was random disconnections.

Only PPTP VPN was affected.

You should try upgrading the fw.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

One of the things the upgrade fixed was random disconnections.

Only PPTP VPN was affected.

You should try upgrading the fw.

So the most up to date for me bearing in mind I use a VPN PPTP setup and this has been working OK is the 8.2.6.5 ???

That is the latest version for 585v7.

One thing to bear in mind is that one uses ethernet connection to do updates as you lose wireless connection. I've updated both 585v7 & v8 without any problems.

Thanks for the positive info.

A few questions about the changes from fw v7 to fw v8 for the 585v7 model:-

The user name and password I use is not the default so can I setup the same in fw v8?

Also I changed the default set Gateway IP and set up some fixed IPs for attached & wireless devices rather than reply on DHCP fo everything, can this be done in fw v8?

Lastly, in your experience does the "backup config file" I have fw v7 work when "restored" into fw v8 and if so what if any 'items' need re-entering because of those do not take upon such a restore like the Wireless WPA Passphrase I mentioned above?

TIA

Edited by deleted (Sun 17-Jul-11 17:24:26)

FWIW just finished a reboot and sync back up to 3584

Thanks Nadger. There was never any chance that I would take on the Midges. After almost two weeks of dry breezy weather, the wind dropped and the rain came down makinh it Midgie Heaven.

Can you confirm that it is 22 V a.c. Most other brands use d.c.

Oh, I notice that the FW upgrades mention on the PlusNet site are all 'labeled' Branded ! Not that it matters but the Router currently just shows Thomson in GUI

Typically consumer grade routers used 24/7 last 12-24 months before they start to degrade. Symptoms include dropping the connection more often, lower sync speeds, failure to sync, random crashes and locking up, problems powering on (might take several goes) and all sorts of other flaky behaviour.Regards Phil

Interested in your comment, what router do you believe is industrial grade?

New router suggestion - get a Home Hub2 off Ebay for less than a tenner!

Meldrew

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

The user name and password I use is not the default so can I setup the same in fw v8?

Yes.

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

Also I changed the default set Gateway IP and set up some fixed IPs for attached & wireless devices rather than reply on DHCP fo everything, can this be done in fw v8?

Yes.

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

Lastly, in your experience does the "backup config file" I have fw v7 work when "restored" into fw v8

Have to admit I'm not sure of the answer to that one!


Rgds,

In reply to a post by bpullen:

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

The user name and password I use is not the default so can I setup the same in fw v8?

Yes.

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

Also I changed the default set Gateway IP and set up some fixed IPs for attached & wireless devices rather than reply on DHCP fo everything, can this be done in fw v8?

Yes.

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

Lastly, in your experience does the "backup config file" I have fw v7 work when "restored" into fw v8

Have to admit I'm not sure of the answer to that one!


Rgds,

Good evening Bob

Many thanks for catching the PM and calling on by in 'here' ~ thanks for the answers but in the light of that you wrote the definitive guide to the firmware upgrading would it possible to confirm one way or the other as to whether the v7 backup config file works AOK when imported to v8.

I deem this important because there, as indicated, are various changes on the Router I have made from defaults and re-entering them all manually is not something I relish doing............................

TIA for any added insight

Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Jul-11 19:27:55)

Hi Routefinder,

The backup file should work fine between different firmware versions on the same hardware, AFAIK it's only when changing between hardware versions that there'll be difficulties.

?
Surely a different v-no is different hardware? Though to what extent is a different question. I assume it is still a Broadcom chipset, but ....

In reply to a post by orbrey:

Hi Routefinder,

The backup file should work fine between different firmware versions on the same hardware, AFAIK it's only when changing between hardware versions that there'll be difficulties.

Hi Matt

Hmmmm! I was hoping for something more affirmative than "should" ~ is there any chance you could do an actual test and confirm absolutely that a fw v7 config file will import without errors in the fw v8. Or if there are errors which areas of the file are ignored??

FWIW using a vanilla fw v7 config file on to a vanilla fw v8 update really will not prove anything ~ I have amended the default username and password, the SSID and of of course a unique WPA passphrase, the default Gateway IP & as such fixed some IP addresses for attached devices. Thus any such test needs to be with a range of non default settings in place to 99.99999% prove it "will" work

TIA

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

?
Surely a different v-no is different hardware? Though to what extent is a different question. I assume it is still a Broadcom chipset, but ....

Hi RobertoS

Thomson in their wisdom have the TG585v7 & the 585v8 hardware .................... but have introduced firmware for the 585v7 designated as firmware version8 and without getting my notes out (if you go to the PlusNet Community link posted eallier) there is also v8 firmware for the 585v8 hardware ~ yes, looks like a minefield of updating risk :lol:

I would expect there will be no change in functionality, just perhaps the implementation.

As such, are you perhaps doing what I often do, worry about the risks of doing things the quickest way, (in this case restoring the v7 config to a v8 firmware), rather that simply making a note of the settings you have - just in case - then trying it. If it fails, you re-install the v8 and do the settings manually.

The time taken to do that would probably be less that what you have already spent doing it this way.

One thing you have to remember is that Plusnet no longer provide 585v7 to new customers - it's been 585v8 for nearly 12 months.