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A while ago I had a line fault causing frequent ADSL drops (ticket 46668387 ) which is now largely resolved. As part of the diagnostic process interleave was turned on which I believe is common practice. This seems to have a disproportionately bad effect on upstream speed. I think was getting over 1Mb/s upstream before the fault. It went below 500k for a while which I was told was a limit artificially imposed as part of the diagnosis. After I had asked about this it went up to 888k. Then is went down to under 600k again. A few days ago a PN rep phoned me and we agred to turn off interleave. This was done and upstream is now well under 500k again. I've put this on the ticket but not yet had a response. Upstream speed is useful to me as I frequently send large email attachments.
I'm confused! Really would like to get this problem finally sorted.
Uptime: 3 days, 1:31:13
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 440 / 16,429
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 9.0 / 21.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 30.0 / 3.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): NA / 26,500,482
CRC Errors (Up/Down): NA / 16
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 12
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Interleave is still on for the downstream, but looks as though it is off for the upstream.
The 440kbps though is the standard setting for Plusnet, even on ADSL2+ which you are on. So it looks as though what he did was just reset you to the defaults. They uncap the upload, so your ticket should sort it.
There is a possibility that they automatically turn interleaving on when they uncap it, so don't be surprised, but I wouldn't expect it significantly to affect the upstream. Though others, with experience of the Plusnet settings, may know that it does affect it.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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The noise margin on up looks dire hence the low up speed
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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Wrong! The up margin looks absolutely brilliant. The upstream sync is capped so the margin will be high.
jelv
Plusnet user since November 2001
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capped was 448 i thought not 440 but I stand to be corrected
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It is supposed to be 448 but for some strange reason it often results in a 440 sync.
jelv
Plusnet user since November 2001
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It is supposed to be 448 but for some strange reason it often results in a 440 sync. Yep.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Just had a message from PN to say that for some reason the upstream speed was capped when they removed interleave. They have promised they will sort it out. just hope it will all settle down soon. I really don't want to have to nurse my broadband, it should be like the water, gas, leccy and phone, it should just work with minimum hassle.
I'm just thinking what an unaware or unskilled user would make of all this. I'm an engineer, fairly clued up about communications and usually know what questions to ask and where to ask them (here!) if I don't understand something. Then I start to wonder what might have happened if I'd been with certain other major ISPs when this fault occurred. This makes me happy that I'm still with PN. They are not perfect, far from it, but you can usually get a reasonable answer from somebody who speaks english and further support from the PN reps who hang out here.
Footnote: I saw some guys installing an FTTC cabinet near my house recently. While I don't really need the extra speed I may go for it when it's available simply to get a nice solid E side connection. The D side cable from the box to me would only be about 300m.
Edited by ppppenguin99 (Tue 08-Nov-11 10:52:56)
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Footnote: I saw some guys installing an FTTC cabinet near my house recently. While I don't really need the extra speed I may go for it when it's available simply to get a nice solid E side connection. The D side cable from the box to me would only be about 300m. Go for it - you won't regret it!
Kevin
plusnet Value Fibre
Using OpenDNS
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I saw some guys installing an FTTC cabinet near my house recently. While I don't really need the extra speed I may go for it when it's available simply to get a nice solid E side connection. That was my major reason for getting FTTC, the secondary one being just for the sake of it.
E-side here is terrible and ADSLx suffers badly because of it. I haven't had a single disconnect that I'm aware of since FTTC in February, whereas from the occasional audible phone noise and the thunderstorms around I would have had the normal inconvenience.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Asked PN about FTTC today. I was rather disappointed that the standard upstream speed is only 1Mb/s, possibly 2MB/s. The standard technology now used will happily give 10MB/s upstream so it's being deliberately throttled for the ordinary domestic products.
Think I'll hold off for a few months and see how FTTC products progress.
Edited by ppppenguin99 (Tue 08-Nov-11 17:17:06)
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I've not heard of the 1Mbps upload, (maybe that is on the 5Mbps download product), but yes, Plusnet only do 2Mbps upload at the moment. Most ISPs do 10Mbps upload.
Is 2Mbps upload such a drag anyway, at Plusnet FTTC prices? It's a heck of a lot more than you get now  .
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Perhaps i'm being mean but 2Mb/s upstream isn't really worth the extra £10/month for FTTC. My downstream is fast enough for everything I do at the moment and I don't see why I should spend an extra £10/month to get a reliable connection. Looks like My E-side troubles have been fixed (famous last words) so it's just a question of getting the interleave and capped rates sorted.
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When Plusnet offer 10Mbps upstream it will attract an extra fee (BTw charge ISPs more for 10Mbps than 2Mbps).
BTW I wasn't aware of any ISPs that offered 10M B/s! 
jelv
Plusnet user since November 2001
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BTW I wasn't aware of any ISPs that offered 10MB/s!
That's called careless typing. I'm well aware of the difference between bits and bytes. Many people must be confused by the fact that DSL (and ethernet) speeds are usually quoted in bits/second while file sizes and virtually everything else are in bytes.
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Quite (I guessed it was a slip of the fingers hence the tongue)! I've lost count of the number of times people have complained about download speeds reported by whatever software they are using being about 8 times slower that the expected speeds given by Plusnet!
jelv
Plusnet user since November 2001
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Confused yes. But, of course there are good reasons for it as a 1Mb/s link will not download a 1MB file in 8 seconds - if speed was measured in MB/s then people would expect a direct correlation between speed and file size which is of course not the case (unless they also then understand all of the overheads and everything else). If people truly understand what a MB is then it isn't that much of a stretch to multiply/divide numbers by 8 (and I would argue that most users have no idea what a MB is just that a MP3 is around xMB, a film around yMB, etc)..
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I think most people have grown used to GBP as a common abbreviation
Video encoding, you usually pick a bit rate, not a Byte rate either
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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What's £ got to do wth it? 
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Andrew,
Often a target file size, in Bytes, as well as constant and variable bit rates, bits, can be chosen when video encoding. Using a target file size will maximize the video quality for the allocated storage space available, e.g. if I wanted to save a video to a data CD then the quality would be much lower, in terms of bit rate, than if I saved it to a data DVD.
Under those circumstances a transfer speed in MB/s is more relevant than Mbps - Mbps being perhaps more relevant to an indeterminate video stream in terms of duration and hence file size? However video quality is normally best judged by the codec and bit rate, bps, used in compression as you pointed out
Edit: one can of course calculate a file size from a given bit rate, or vice versa, but that can be tricky when working with variable bit rates depending on video content.
Edited by 4M2 (Wed 09-Nov-11 17:27:42)
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Example of how people can learn to adapt, alas when I see communications magazines make claims about a data centre with a new 10GB network I do wonder sometimes.
Only 10GB of data allowed, or 10Gbps of capacity....
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I expect most people don't know what a lot of acronyms stand for.
In most cases it's irrelevant for them.
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Feeling a bit cheesed off. On Tuesday was told that upstream speed would be uncapped within 48 hours. It's still around 440k. Put note on ticket on Friday but no response.yet.
OK, I know this isn't mission critical stuff but surely you guys at PN can do a little better.
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Put note on ticket on Friday but no response.yet. I believe amending the content of a ticket puts it back to the end of the queue. An excellent idea  .
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Somebody must have been listening because my connection dropped during the night and is now (drum roll)
Uptime: 0 days, 4:04:08
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,184 / 16,715
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 9.0 / 21.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.5 / 3.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 11 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1,783,035
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
I hope it stays stable.
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My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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After reading your original post and all the replies I raised a ticket asking for the (440) cap to be removed from my 21CN ADSL2+ connection. My ticket was replied to within 24hrs to say that was fine and to expect the change within 48hrs. Yesterday morning at approx 7:45am the connection dropped and came back with upstream synced at 888. PlusNet did warn that downstream speed might be impacted, but I've been pushing the connection pretty hard in both directions all today and can't say the download speed is any different. Upstream, however, is a lot better, so really pleased I saw this thread! For those interested, stats now 7424 / 888 (and that's 2 miles from the exchange with a downstream attenuation of 50.5!).
Andrew
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For those interested, stats now 7424 / 888 (and that's 2 miles from the exchange with a downstream attenuation of 50.5!). That is remarkable for the downstream - are you tweaking the margin or has the DLM dropped it to 3dB?
Strangely, I would expect the upstream to be somewhat higher, around 1Mbps, on that downstream attenuation. What's the upstream att.?
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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I think a 'maximum' upstream sync speed of 888kbps often associates with interleaving on. The equivalent of 7616kbps downstream often seen on ADSLmax with interleaving on.
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Yes, Interleaving is on. When I first moved to ADSL2+ the line was a little unstable at the new, faster, speed. Turning on Interleaving sorted that out.
Andrew
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Yes, it is very remarkable. As you guessed the the DLM runs my noise margin at 3db, hence the excellent speed. This is fine during the summer months and light evenings, but at this time of year can lead to the odd drop in early evening when SNR can go below 1.0. However, I can put up with that given the excellent (stable) speeds during the day. Here's the full stats right now.
| Text | 1
23
4 | ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7424 kbps 888 kbps Line Attenuation 50.5 db 24.4 db
Noise Margin 3.4 db 9.7 db |
The upstream is pegged at 888 because my line is running with Interleave on. I understand that is what limits the u/s rate to that figure. Not bothered, it's a near 100% increase over 448!
Andrew
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I think a 'maximum' upstream sync speed of 888kbps often associates with interleaving on. The equivalent of 7616kbps downstream often seen on ADSLmax with interleaving on. Hmmm  .
I believe you, but I wonder if this is specific to Plusnet. There are many BT Wholesale-using ISPs where this is not the case.
In the same way as they put the initial 440 cap on it that no-one else does.
The whole point of Interleaving is to allow higher connection an throughput on less than perfect lines. So to cap it at a low speed is perverse. That would achieve stability without interleaving.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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See my reply to the post about it by atsw .
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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I believe you, but I wonder if this is specific to Plusnet. There are many BT Wholesale-using ISPs where this is not the case. I haven't quite sussed out Orange's BT White Label Up speeds, but I've noticed that it often runs at 888 Interleaved. I think it has also run up to 1.3 Meg but I can't be sure. It certainly has on Fast Path.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 17 Meg Untweaked 19 Meg Tweaked WBC
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I believe you, but I wonder if this is specific to Plusnet. There are many BT Wholesale-using ISPs where this is not the case.
I'm not sure how this would just be specific to us - it should be the same for all BTW based ISPs as it's all the same type of order?
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