21CN on a long line mystery ~ questions???

Hi All

I would welcome any insight on this, what to me is a bit of a mystery???

Though I was not 100% content with my 3204kbps sync @ 6db Margin connection on 21CN (for the record this has been dropping progressively from a figure closer to >3500 mark, I was at an IP of 3.1 for a good while, since the 10 day training period completed [I will try to find my records of periodic changes but they were not frequent i.e. I could see a solid sync for 14 days of say 7 days???]) but at approx 2am this morning (23rd April) the PPP session reset and the sync plummeted to 2519 with a Margin of (now) 9.8db

Not only that looking at the Connection Type it has changed from ADSL2 to ADSL2+, now bearing in mind under ADSL2 the Attentuation was showing as 54.5 but now under ADSL2+ it is 57.5

To me this makes no sense as everything I have read and been advised here says that long lines like mine cannot get the best of ADSL2+ hence the MSAN allocates ADSL2....................so how does that tally with with I have seen above.

For the record I have asked PN and the initial feedback is not very helpfull but as the 2519 sync is below the FTR of 2739 I have asked what is/are the next steps that should or will be taken???

I did a BT speedtest and it reports my measured speed as 1.98Mbps and the IP as 2.22Mbps......................appalling, eh!!!

TIA for your insight

Can't you set the router to force ADSL2?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Can't you set the router to force ADSL2?

Hmmm! not sure that the Netgear DG834 gives that sort of control??? Will have to check if that is possible..........................or logical to do until I can get to grips with why this has happened in the first place???

Edit, just checked and I can. The current setting is ADSL2+ ??? The options are Auto (Multi Mode), ADSL (G.DMT), ADSL2 and ADSL2+ though I thought the exchange equipment "served up" so to speak what it could offer the could handle???

Not sure what to do now as surely I would have thought the Router defaulted to that, or did it because frankly I cannot recall if I made any changes to it. I think I put the Netgear back into to use at the start of April (was running the Thomson TG585v7

So, as there is some question in regard to the FTR have been breached can or should just go ahead and change the "type" to ADSL2 and see where that gets me???

Edited by deleted (Mon 23-Apr-12 22:11:17)

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

The current setting is ADSL2+ ??? The options are Auto (Multi Mode), ADSL (G.DMT), ADSL2 and ADSL2+ though I thought the exchange equipment "served up" so to speak what it could offer the could handle???

Well as it asked for ADSL2+ that is what DLM serves up unless it's impossible. I think if you had set it to Auto (the default), then DLM might have gone for the "best" it could handle but even that seems random from what other users have reported. So it's worth a try with setting ADSL2.

Let's deal with the easy bit first.

A rise of about 3dB in attenuation on switching from ADSL or ADSL2 to ADSL2+ is very common. In some circumstances it doesn't happen, but I would describe it as "expected".

The re-sync at 2am was probably caused by the MSAN deciding, for some unknown reason at the moment, to move you from ADSL2 to ADSL2+. As 2am is a "noisy" time for broadband, you got a low sync as a result.

The 9.8dB you are seeing is probably simply most of that noise being absent, so the noise margin is bound to rise from what was probably 6dB at 2am.

Rather than mess about at this stage, I suggest a simple disconnection and reconnection well inside daylight hours tomorrow, and see what the result is. Possibly a sync increase of between 1.2 and 1.7Mbps.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 23-Apr-12 22:52:05)

Thanks both for the added insight

As I say if for reason that escapes me now I set the Router to ADSL2+ and all the while (good many days) the MSAN was trying to 'negotiate' with the Router (could that explain the progrssive drop in sync I was seeing???) and was at ADSL2 for ages it then took a powder and went for broke and set ADSL2+ and that is what has so adversely affected the connection surely rather than 'just' a simple discon/recon the Router needs to be told to go ADSL2.................................doesn't it???

As for making the changes well into daylight hours, well if I do it tomorrow Tuesday that will be approx 9am the latest I can do it!

How stable was your line before the DLM switched the modulation over to ADSL2+ from ADSL2? If it was quite stable, that could be why - It's trying to see how well it performs on ADSL2+.

The most probable reasons why you synced at a low speed are (As RobertoS has highlighted) because the Noise Margins are lower at night time (More interference from street lighting.etc)
and because of the rise in attenuation (Although the higher frequencies that ADSL2+ utilizes might rule the attenuation part out).


The DLM is constantly monitoring your line and if it sees the need to change something it will. By default, all modulations up to the one your DSLAM/MSAN supports can usually be used by a router.
So if you have ADSL, ADSL2 and ADSL2+ all selected on auto and you are on the 21CN network, the DLM will use the best one it sees fit (Up to ADSL2+) depending on the Noise Margin available and the length of the line. Obviously if the Linecard you are on doesn't support the modulation, your router simply won't sync.

9am is a good time to resync in the morning but it varies from line to line. Different people have different things on at different times of the day which can affect interference. If you are not planning on using ADSL2+ then I would untick it from the modulations which the router should sync with.

By the way, how did your line perform on the old 20CN Up to 8Mbps network (If you had broadband on it then)?

With a Downstream Attenuation of 54.5dB, standard ADSL might bring your speeds up a bit.

Edited by chris6273 (Tue 24-Apr-12 00:51:52)

You should avoid changing several things at once when trying to diagnose this sort of thing.

Any change you make to the router settings will cause a re-sync. If the problem is solved, for a period at least, we won't know whether it was just because of the 2am connection or because of your new settings.

Which is why I said to try a simple reconnect first.

The important thing to avoid is more than 5-6 reconnections in an hour, as the MSAN will take that as a sign of instability and start reducing the possible speed even further! (The critical number is supposed to be 10, but I never dared test that).

2-3 times with a few minutes between each will be fine. So do my suggested reconnection, and if it doesn't work then try a setting change .

It seems you have to go out at 9am. 8:30 will be fine. Just avoid dawn, dusk or dark.

Thanks Chris & Roberto for the feedback.

Firstly, to reply about the ADSL Max (20CN I had before) this before the change I had measured speed mostly ranging over recent times from 2.4Mbps to 2.9Mbps

Now here is more wonders of the 21CN and the MSAN behaviour:-

At just about midnight I see that the PPP session reset and I now have the following stats:-

Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 443 Kbps, Downstream rate = 3179 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.4 17.9
Attn(dB): 54.0 28.7
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 13.1
Max(Kbps): 4196 828
Rate (Kbps): 3179 443

Now I have done nothing to the Router i.e. it is still set at ADSL2+ but note the increased sync speed, reduced Margin & Attenuation and dah da! back on ADSL2

So still a complete mystery as to why the MSAN decided to go "ADSL2+"........................do you think I should set the Router to ADSL2 to mitigate for the mismatch being a possible/likely cause for what I have experienced???

TIA

Looks like MSAN is doing what it says on the tin, here is the current speed:-


Just off to see what BT says my IP is

Result is IP of 2.8Mbps whic tallies with the 3179 sync i.e. 88.2% of that figure.

Hmmm! so could the cause of the long interval drops from "post the Training Period" be down to the Router set to ADSL2+ somehow conflicting with the MSAN 'settling' on ADSL2 as was and is now again???

Oh, at least 21CN is doing what was promised i.e. reflecting the changes rapidly compared to groaningly slow 20CN DSLAM changes taking 10's of hours to increase and "instantly" dropping in comparison!

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Apr-12 01:57:31)

There isn't a mismatch as such.

Every line has individual characteristics So I have a slight change fom ny previous recommendation, based on what we see now.

I would like you to do the morning reconnection as I said before, and post the stats. Or possibly save them somewhere and post together with the ones from what I think you should then do.

Which is: Utick ADSL2+. Tick ADSL and ADSL2. Reconnect and take the stats. Post both sets.

I'm hoping to see getting on for 4Mbps downstream sync.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

There isn't a mismatch as such.

Every line has individual characteristics So I have a slight change fom ny previous recommendation, based on what we see now.

I would like you to do the morning reconnection as I said before, and post the stats. Or possibly save them somewhere and post together with the ones from what I think you should then do.

Which is: Utick ADSL2+. Tick ADSL and ADSL2. Reconnect and take the stats. Post both sets.

I'm hoping to see getting on for 4Mbps downstream sync.

Hi Roberto

OK, I will do:-

1) A discon/recon in the morning

2) Next day I willl set the Router to ADSL2 (AFAIK this will force a discon/recon???)

3) Next day if you think it is pertinent I will set to ADSL (G.DMT) Though as my wiring has now been connected to the MSAN what effect is that likely to have???

In all above will make note of the stats as copied above from RouterStats terminal page.

Right, will doing the discon/recon of the router (Note ~ was not intending to reboot the Router just physically discon/recon the WAN cable) in a while but just to say that currently BT still report the IP @ 2.8 but the Data Transfer Speed held @ PlusNet is 2.7. In the past I have seen these not match because of a lag on PlusNet's systems part but this 0.1 difference I do not recall seeing they have either matched or been more widely out???

Back later with the first update

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Apr-12 08:10:49)

OK here are the results of the discon/recon

24th 08:47
Noise Margin: 6.1 dB
Connection Rate: 3035 Kbps
Line Attenuation: 55.0 dB
Power: 0.0 dBm
Max Rate: 4080 Kbps

I though the above was tad slow so tried once more for a 'better' gateway??? And got this slight improvement.

24th 08:51
Noise Margin: 6.0 dB
Connection Rate: 3159 Kbps
Line Attenuation: 54.5 dB
Power: 0.0 dBm
Max Rate: 4172 Kbps

Will do the Router DSL change to ADSL2 tomorrow morning as listed.

Something odd is going on .

I'm in a bit of a rush now, but you should be getting better speeds. Have you ever read my Ring/Bell wire and Miscellaneous nasties pages?

I would leave the router settings alone for now. It is training down to ADSL2 nearly every time anyway.

The BT v PN IP Profile/Current line speed difference is probably because PN round to the 100kbps below the BT four-digit kbps of the actual IP Profile, whereas BT seem to round for display in the normal manner.

So if the actual figure is between 2750 and 2799 BT will show 2.8, but PN will show and use 2.7.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Something odd is going on .

I'm in a bit of a rush now, but you should be getting better speeds. Have you ever read my Ring/Bell wire and Miscellaneous nasties pages?

I would leave the router settings alone for now. It is training down to ADSL2 nearly every time anyway.

The BT v PN IP Profile/Current line speed difference is probably because PN round to the 100kbps below the BT four-digit kbps of the actual IP Profile, whereas BT seem to round for display in the normal manner.

So if the actual figure is between 2750 and 2799 BT will show 2.8, but PN will show and use 2.7.

Hi Roberto

I installed an iPlate a long while back so no bell wire affecting the connection


I am going to trawl through my notes & screengrabs for sync speed et al and will post a summary that dates back to 1st March......................need to make sure whether or not this includes or not the Training Period???

Might make for interesting reading because as stated my sync from what I recall has been dropping since the Training Period completed.

Will try to post that info in the next few days.

Hi Roberto et al

As promised I have collated the following info that I hope may throw some light on the matter for further insight from you guys

My 21CN was started at about midday on 28th February and the sync at that point was 4256

Now the sync speeds since then that I have logged/made note of:-

1st March 08:04hrs 3808
to
18th March 12:40hrs 3808

18th March 11:43hrs 3787
to
18th March 13:35hrs 3787

18th March 13:39hrs 3671
to
29th March 21:51hrs 3671

29th March 21:58hrs 3567
to
6th April 00:36hrs 3567

So as you can see there have been nice long periods of sync stability but the trend has been ever downwards. But possibly most importantly I was at 3808 at and well beyond the end of the 10 day training period.

OK, I did swap out my Thomson TG585v7 because I was not happy about the MAC filtering control so brought back into service my Netgear DG834Gv4 this was done during the early evening of the 6th April but annoyingly I do not seem to have made a note of the sync speed immediately prior to the swap over???

However, I did find a note that I was, at some stage following the swap, sync'ed at 3067 [so even lower than as logged above] and noted that the DSL type was showing as ADSL2 and according to that note I set it to ADSL2+ (so it was me ) and after that I found I was sync'ed at 3136

So, did a resync:-

7th April 11:38 3147
to
20th April 13:40 3147

Then there was a change again:-
20th April 13:45 3203
to
23rd April 00:08 3203

23rd April 09:39 2519 (NB this was what RouterStats 'reported' when the PC was booed up that morning)
to
24th April 00:01 3179

And so we come up to date as noted above.

Now it has been said all along that AFAIK even under 21CN the BT DLM system knows best but why the heck did I get a decent improvement during and following the 10 day training period but since then it has progessively fallen, this still makes no sense to me because the evidence of my own eyes and the logs say the line is stable enough at higher sync but "something" is depressing this to the point where the service level is not that great any longer........................and what good is the reported Max Rate if it actually means nothing is real user experience terms???

Mode: ADSL2
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.3 18.7
Attn(dB): 54.5 28.7
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 12.9
Max(Kbps): 4020 808
Rate (Kbps): 3159 443

I look forward to any extra insight possible

Edited by deleted (Sat 28-Apr-12 23:23:20)

That's a bit scary .

I think we need to see a few RouterStats Noise Margin graphs. (Don't need the sync ones). To or three in the middle of an OK spell, and then ones that cover the re-sync times.

Have you got it set to log to file as well? Don't go posting it if you have, but what size is it? Small enough to attach to an email?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That's a bit scary .

I think we need to see a few RouterStats Noise Margin graphs. (Don't need the sync ones). To or three in the middle of an OK spell, and then ones that cover the re-sync times.

Have you got it set to log to file as well? Don't go posting it if you have, but what size is it? Small enough to attach to an email?

Hi Roberto

Many thanks for looking in

I have used over time a combination of RouterStats Lite and the full version so will have to look at the logs and graphs that have been recorded but suffice to say from memory the Margin figure does not vary much at the sync's stated above ~ by variance I mean if it is 6db then it may rise to 6.5 or drop to 5.5. But as I say I will have to check the what graphs have been stored in addition to the logs I have cribbed the info above from.

What I find interesting there is a thread over at PlusNet Community Forum here http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1041... see Reply#10.............sounded way too familar???

I will not be able to check for graphs until Tuesday ~ way too much on with long hours until then. So will post back asap that evening all being well

PS Jusy had a quick look and annoyingly I only have graphs from RS Lite......................Homer Simpson here forgot to set graph capturing in RS full version ~ doh! But it does look like I have graphs covering the the switchover and Training Period et al so I will go through them as mentioned when I can give time to it and upload them to webspace for viewing ~ will need to as you request try to reconcile them to the figures I give and where resync's occured???

Edited by deleted (Mon 30-Apr-12 00:00:11)

I dont get on well with full RS graphs . I much prefer Lite.

Yes, in my previosu post I'm just looking for an extract from a stable time, then to see what happnes through a disconnect, and whether they are isolated or grouped.

If you are still running it, can you make sure you have it set to 5 seconds sampling rather than the default 15 or anything higher? At high interval times you often can't see the re-sync on the NM graph. Just the sync changes. Which tells us nothing much.

Reply #13 says what I was thinking before I got to it. Reply #10 by the OP clearly suggests a long-term line problem. Target noise margin is/was set high as he was tweaking to get 6dB.

He needs a link to my Ring/Bell Wire, High noise margin and Miscellaneous nasties pages.

On Tablet now.............PC shutdown

Have only been running RS full since swapping to the Netgear so no graphs only logs so should at least be able to "see" what Margin was before & after any resyncs

But cannot recall what interval i had lite set for so will just have to see what i can find on the relevent days/dates when the re syncs happened

As i say will trawl through all the data/info i can find in a day or so

Set it to 5 seconds though .

I have been too busy to trawl the older RS Lite figures and graphs...............will still try to get that done but thought I would post the latest change I spotted

I have been sync'ed at 3159 for good double digit number of days but spotted a change at about 09:18 hours yesterday the 4th May so here is copied the log data for that period:-

Fri 04 May 2012 09:14:58 Rx-Noise=6.3 Tx-Noise=18.5 Rx-Sync=3159 Tx-Sync=443
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:03 Rx-Noise=4.3 Tx-Noise=18.4 Rx-Sync=3159 Tx-Sync=443
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:08 Rx-Noise=4.3 Tx-Noise=18.4 Rx-Sync=3159 Tx-Sync=443
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:13 Rx-Noise=0.0 Tx-Noise=0.0 Rx-Sync=0 Tx-Sync=0
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:18 Rx-Noise=0.0 Tx-Noise=0.0 Rx-Sync=0 Tx-Sync=0
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:23 Rx-Noise=0.0 Tx-Noise=0.0 Rx-Sync=0 Tx-Sync=0
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:28 Rx-Noise=0.0 Tx-Noise=0.0 Rx-Sync=0 Tx-Sync=0
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:33 Rx-Noise=0.0 Tx-Noise=0.0 Rx-Sync=0 Tx-Sync=0
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:38 Rx-Noise=0.0 Tx-Noise=0.0 Rx-Sync=0 Tx-Sync=0
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:43 Rx-Noise=0.0 Tx-Noise=0.0 Rx-Sync=0 Tx-Sync=0
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:48 Rx-Noise=0.0 Tx-Noise=0.0 Rx-Sync=0 Tx-Sync=0
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:53 Rx-Noise=0.0 Tx-Noise=0.0 Rx-Sync=0 Tx-Sync=0
Fri 04 May 2012 09:15:58 Rx-Noise=5.9 Tx-Noise=15.6 Rx-Sync=3055 Tx-Sync=443
Fri 04 May 2012 09:16:03 Rx-Noise=5.9 Tx-Noise=15.6 Rx-Sync=3055 Tx-Sync=443
Fri 04 May 2012 09:16:08 Rx-Noise=5.9 Tx-Noise=15.5 Rx-Sync=3055 Tx-Sync=443
Fri 04 May 2012 09:16:13 Rx-Noise=6.0 Tx-Noise=16.1 Rx-Sync=3055 Tx-Sync=443
Fri 04 May 2012 09:16:18 Rx-Noise=5.9 Tx-Noise=16.3 Rx-Sync=3055 Tx-Sync=443
Fri 04 May 2012 09:16:23 Rx-Noise=6.0 Tx-Noise=16.3 Rx-Sync=3055 Tx-Sync=443
Fri 04 May 2012 09:16:28 Rx-Noise=6.0 Tx-Noise=16.4 Rx-Sync=3055 Tx-Sync=443
Fri 04 May 2012 09:16:33 Rx-Noise=6.0 Tx-Noise=16.3 Rx-Sync=3055 Tx-Sync=443

And here is the link to the capture Noise Graph covering the same'ish period
false

If you can pick the bones out of this that would be good

FWIW as it had been so very stable for so many days I was planning on re-syncing later today the 5th to see if I could see an uplift.............................will try that in the morning if the DLM has not increased it by then???

TIA

PS I am beginning to wonder if a) I should get a 2Wire 2700HGV router as many claim that is bullet proof for longer lines with improved speeds and/or b) ask to go G.DMT on my 21CN connection..........though in the latter do you still retain the 21CN advantage of the more rapid increases if a drop does happen, or is that function more associated with the ADSL2 and ADSL2+ DSL connection type not the fact of being on a 21CN MSAN???

PPS I checked again what the Kitz DSL attenuation calculator has to report about the likelly speed I should get with 55.5db attenuation.............hmm! does not do the 0.5 so entered 56 and it says on DSLMax 3424 and ADSL2+ 3712 but I also see he says this:-

"It is also worth pointing out that attenuation is calculated differently for adsl and adsl2+, and its not unusual to see an increase of 3-4 db when moving from adsl1 to adsl2+.
The figures used are based on attenuation measured at 300Khz for adsl1. If you are already on adsl2+, then you will likely be using additional higher frequencies with an increase in attenuation which should be bourne in mind."

Now when I was switched from ADSLMax to 21CN my attenuation did not change significantly in the way he describes??? So what to make of that???

Edited by deleted (Sat 05-May-12 01:55:26)

Here copied & pasted the stats secton of the Telnet reported stats in RouterStats ~ does RS reset these figures when the line resync's or only when the Router is restarted. If the former then these figures cover something like 17 days in total???

Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 443 Kbps, Downstream rate = 3055 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.4 16.0
Attn(dB): 55.5 28.8
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 13.1
Max(Kbps): 3924 756
Rate (Kbps): 3055 443
G.dmt framing
K: 96(0) 14
R: 0 0
S: 1 1
D: 1 1
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 59 12
B: 95 13
M: 1 1
T: 1 4
R: 0 0
S: 0.9948 0.9911
L: 772 113
D: 1 1
Counters
SF: 5949762 5657858
SFErr: 1302 0
RS: 0 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

HEC: 995 0
OCD: 86 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 693199262 869321
Data Cells: 5415060 15789
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 8803 0
SES: 29 0
UAS: 288 0
AS: 96184

INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 16.16 17.84
delay: 0.24 0.24
OR: 32.16 8.07

Bitswap: 5911 4218

Total time = 1 days 22 hours 14 min 45 sec
SF = 79841827
CRC = 15829
LOS = 8
LOF = 44
ES = 8803
Latest 1 day time = 22 hours 14 min 45 sec
SF = 4953948
CRC = 1150
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 802
Latest 15 minutes time = 14 min 45 sec
SF = 54786
CRC = 11
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 10
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55654
CRC = 4
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 4
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF = 5351960
CRC = 1375
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES = 688
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55716
CRC = 13
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 10
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55654
CRC = 5
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 5
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55654
CRC = 10
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 8

Right after 1day, 3hours & 53 mins of the 21CN DLM thinking my line was OK at a lower figure after many days at higher one I rebooted the Router and I am now sync'ing at 3189 with margin 5.9

OK only a very very modest increase, for now

It's useful to know whether it is ADSL2 or 2+, and what it is giving as the attenuation as well .

The rest of the stuff isn't (normally) needed.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It's useful to know whether it is ADSL2 or 2+, and what it is giving as the attenuation as well .

The rest of the stuff isn't (normally) needed.

Hi Roberto

Well it says above

ADSL2
Attenuation 55.5 for sync 3055

I as noted rebooted the Router 7hours 7mins on here are the shortened stats

Noise Margin: 6.3 dB
Connection Rate: 3183 Kbps
Line Attenuation: 55.0 dB
Power: 0.0 dBm
Max Rate: 4272 Kbps

SuperFrames: 1599549
SF (CRC) Errors: 3101
Reed Solomon: 0
RS Corrected: 0
RS Un-Corrected: 0
HEC: 1879
Errored Seconds: 402
Severe ES: 62

Interleave Depth: 1
Bitswaps: 1374

FWIW my Attenuation has been in the mid 50's ever since I got Max ADSL.

TIA

Just occured to me to see what the BT line chcker had to say about my immediate neighbours phone line bearing in mind they are approx 50ft away!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.


Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 2.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1.5Mbps and 3.5Mbps.


Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 2.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1Mbps and 4Mbps.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And for my line:-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.


Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 2Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1Mbps and 3.5Mbps.


Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 2.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1Mbps and 4Mbps.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have enboldened the differences that standout in regard to the basic projected performance differences.

To me this is interesting as potentially our line lengths should be physically almost the same but why the, albeit small, marked difference???

1. There are feedback systems to the checker
2. Lines may not be the same
3. Difference may be marginal, but enough to drop one into next lower speed category
4. They are out to get you

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

1. There are feedback systems to the checker
2. Lines may not be the same
3. Difference may be marginal, but enough to drop one into next lower speed category
4. They are out to get you

Re:-
1) Yes, but how the heck do they work ???

2) Point taken and there be the historical mystery of the UK phone lines and the changes made to them over the decades. If this was a water company "we" would be telling them to fix the leaks (e.g. replace the Aluminium with copper, check the joints when there are reported issues of Data Transmission etc) But BT fallback on such a wide band of tolerance that is IMO a laugh.................and yes I fully apprciate they have developed technology to wring as much as they can out of the old wires!

2a) FWIW as far as I can tell most if not all the exchanges around us have been converted to FTTC and we are far from rurally isolated so why leave us in a pocket???

3) There the rub..............see responses to #2 above especially in regard to the quality of the wires/wiring and th fact that my attenuation is so very constant!

4) well I do keep checking behind me whe I am out & about :lol:

1. Simple, the MSR recorded after ten days is generally feedback, and over time IP profiles are periodically used to update it.

2. Money pure and simple, and that rules on what they must be provide are so low. Virgin Media for example has none.

2a. Someone with a spreadsheet decided your area was uneconomic based on current criteria, or with just a 2/3rds of UK target you were seen as not worth the bother.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

1. Simple, the MSR recorded after ten days is generally feedback, and over time IP profiles are periodically used to update it.

2. Money pure and simple, and that rules on what they must be provide are so low. Virgin Media for example has none.

2a. Someone with a spreadsheet decided your area was uneconomic based on current criteria, or with just a 2/3rds of UK target you were seen as not worth the bother.

Thanks for the insight & feedback

Yup, everything comes down to the money!

Oddly I recall (vaguely?) that when ADSL was being rolled out they had a threshold of subscribers requesting it and the threshold was set as a %of the business & residential lines on each exchange. Ours was taking ages to reach that level but then out of the blue got its RFS date and exactly on the date went live.....this was markedly below the threshold!

The cynic in me said that we had one or two MP's living somewhere in the exchange area (seriously) Perhaps they have moved and the nudge factor has disappeared Or maybe they live that much closer to the exchange and are happy with the MaxADSL/ADSL2+ they are getting :lol:

As for #1 well my point in this thread is that after my switch to 21CN I had a notably better sync & IP that was stable and holding but it has now sunk to equal/worse(???) to MaxADSL

PS as for Virgin, I am surprised no one has reported them to the ASA because their adverts appear to say everyone can get their high speed when patently that is not so, cannot recall seeing even the unreadable smallprint such ad's will show for approx 5 seconds with a disclaimer???

Edited by deleted (Mon 07-May-12 23:33:34)

Oh, just struck me as I do recall if I asked this or was spotted/answered but why is my "downstream power" reported as 0.0 ???

Because the exchange cant be bothered to tell your router.