FTTC Traffic Management

Can anyone give me some real world speed figures for a FTTC product under Plusnet's traffic management? I was thinking of things like streaming video, torrents, and newsgroups. Thanks in advance.

If you are considering P2P and Usenet then they are pretty heavily throttled so I would suggest that you would need the Pro option for those.
Streaming is a bit less clear as the published restrictions seem to have been relaxed but the new ones haven't been published yet
These posts cover it http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1069... http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1069...

Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Aug-12 23:23:29)

Usenet, P2P and non-Plusnet FTP traffic is rate limited to 2Mb between 8pm and Midnight. No other rate limits apply although there is still the prioritisation of the traffic depending on the queue it's in (Titanium, Gold etc).

In reply to a post by chrisparr:

Usenet, P2P and non-Plusnet FTP traffic is rate limited to 2Mb between 8pm and Midnight. No other rate limits apply although there is still the prioritisation of the traffic depending on the queue it's in (Titanium, Gold etc).

Chris - does this supersede the information currently on the Plusnet website, which we have been told is due to be updated? Also, does it apply to all products, ADSL and fibre?

Edited by kasg (Thu 16-Aug-12 09:51:56)

That's what the information is going to be updated to!

Excellent - keeps it nice and simple!

In reply to a post by chrisparr:

Usenet, P2P and non-Plusnet FTP traffic is rate limited to 2Mb between 8pm and Midnight. No other rate limits apply although there is still the prioritisation of the traffic depending on the queue it's in (Titanium, Gold etc).

I have a few related questions, and the linked threads don't seem to cover everything, so I hope this is the right thread to add my questions to. I'm planning which ISP to go for when FTTC is enabled for me (it is due and all local cabinets seem finished). I just wanted to confirm what you've said in my quote. Right now your website says that streaming is one of the protocols that will be "slowed down" for both Plusnet Value and Plusnet Extra. Is this not actually the case any more or did you miss that from your post? As a limit of 2Mb/s on streaming would me too low for many people, and would mean having to get Plusnet Pro.

Also, how much real-world difference does the prioritisation make if the protocol is said to be "managed" rather than "slowed down"?

There are so many things I'm taking into account with which service to go for, and I had decided on BT but since Plusnet have upped their speeds and have a pretty decent price, I'm now looking closer at what they will offer compared to BT.

Sorry for all the questions.

Edited by deleted (Thu 16-Aug-12 19:24:50)

In reply to a post by Zackary:

Right now your website says that streaming is one of the protocols that will be "slowed down" for both Plusnet Value and Plusnet Extra. Is this not actually the case any more or did you miss that from your post? As a limit of 2Mb/s on streaming would me too low for many people, and would mean having to get Plusnet Pro.

I am not a user of P2P or Usenet so cannot comment on that, but regarding streaming, I can say that I have never had any problem with high definition streaming (to multiple devices) on Plusnet FTTC under whatever limits were present in the past, and from what Plusnet has implied, even those limits have now been removed.

In reply to a post by kasg:

I am not a user of P2P or Usenet so cannot comment on that, but regarding streaming, I can say that I have never had any problem with high definition streaming (to multiple devices) on Plusnet FTTC under whatever limits were present in the past, and from what Plusnet has implied, even those limits have now been removed.

Ok that's good to know, thanks. I don't do P2P or Usenet at the moment but a bit of low def streaming sometimes. My needs will probably change though once I get off this current terrible 3Mb/s speed. So I'm trying to make sure I've future-proofed myself with whichever service I choose.

The website is a bit confusing
Streaming used to be limited to 10Mbps but that restriction has now gone as Chris said

In reply to a post by Oldjim:

The website is a bit confusing
Streaming used to be limited to 10Mbps but that restriction has now gone as Chris said

I didn't see that anywhere on the site, but good it's been removed now anyway. I look forward to the website being fully updated so I can look through all the details for each package and know the info is accurate.

It's here http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/do...

In reply to a post by Oldjim:

It's here http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/do...

Thank you, that's either changed in the last 2 hours or the old info is still there and linked from elsewhere on the site. I'll study it tomorrow when I'm more awake.

Edit: Ok I had a quick look already. All that is what's supposed to be changing, right? Hope so, or I certainly won't use Plusnet with such restrictions. I think that must surely still be the old information. Goodness knows what I found on the site earlier.

Edited by deleted (Thu 16-Aug-12 22:50:01)

In reply to a post by Zackary:

Edit: Ok I had a quick look already. All that is what's supposed to be changing, right? Hope so, or I certainly won't use Plusnet with such restrictions. I think that must surely still be the old information. Goodness knows what I found on the site earlier.

Yes, that is the old information, which we have been promised will be updated. There is also the (similarly out-of-date) dumbed-down version here, which apparently is to satisfy some Ofcom rules.

Yes that's the page I found earlier.

Thanks for the clarification Kevin.

Yep, they are still the old rules. We're hoping to get the new ones out next week assuming no snags in testing.

In reply to a post by chrisparr:

Yep, they are still the old rules. We're hoping to get the new ones out next week assuming no snags in testing.

It's probably losing you potential customers during this important fibre "land grab" phase, many people will no doubt be put off to learn that their nice new 76 meg broadband connection could be throttled as low as 0.5 meg.

Edited by Oliver341 (Fri 17-Aug-12 18:44:24)

I agree, it seems ridiculous not to wait until the traffic management had been sorted before launching the new fibre pricing.

The current throttling is extremely severe during the evening and totally defeats the point of a 76Mbit service.

You only get the publicity following a product launch for a short period and I can't help but think it would have been more successful if both changes had been made simultaneously.

What limits are currently active on the network? The initial information suggested the website was wrong and that the network was not as limited as the site suggested. The later posts suggest the new throttling is only in the testing phase.... is this testing phase live with all customers?

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

The current throttling is extremely severe during the evening and totally defeats the point of a 76Mbit service.

Are you speaking from personal experience? It is certainly not the experience of those who are using the service. We have been told repeatedly by Plusnet reps that the throttling has been relaxed, almost completely removed in fact, and it is just the website that has not been updated yet.

I'm speaking as a prospective (or I would have been had I not signed up for Sky) customer reading the website.

When the new products first launched my first thought was "Have they relaxed the traffic management and have I made a mistake staying with Sky?" and the obvious answer was no they haven't changed the policy. However it seems they have but neglected to update the website.

The new product launch has no doubt taken lots of planning and time to implement, the new traffic shaping has also been implemented but it seems the 2 projects could not be completed together.

As a result this could have put off a few potential customers from signing up and there would therefore have been an argument for delaying the new product launch until both projects could have been launched together.

Only, you and some others would still have joined Sky/BT/wherever in the interim. This way, at least a few may waver and find out more, or simply wait for the official announcement.

But lousy Project management not having the web pages revised and fully checked on a dummy site beforehand.

The changes to the traffic management haven't really taken place as a project as such, they've been relaxed across protocols over time depending on the impact on the network and usage trends.

In reply to a post by chrisparr:

The changes to the traffic management haven't really taken place as a project as such, they've been relaxed across protocols over time depending on the impact on the network and usage trends.

As a potential new customer, I am not feeling very comfortable with this at all. I cannot start a new 18 month contract in the hope that things "officially" change for good, and just basing it on what a few other people's experiences in a forum are. It sounds like things are still in the testing phase to me. To be blunt, the website needs to be updated before I will sign up. Without the traffic management being completely relaxed (other than for P2P) and having it in writing on your website, I feel like it is too much of a risk to take. Surely updating the website with all the new details should be an absolute priority....unless the new details are not yet set in stone.

I note with interest that the traffic management isn't part of the contract.

So you could wait for the traffic management to change as described before signing up, but then 10 months down the line it might be decided that it's best to throttle P2P to 1mbit 24/7... Unlikely that they'll take a step backwards like that, but equally there's nothing to stop you doing it as far as I can see. Please, if I'm mistaken, please let me know where I'm wrong.

In reply to a post by blueacid:

I note with interest that the traffic management isn't part of the contract.

So you could wait for the traffic management to change as described before signing up, but then 10 months down the line it might be decided that it's best to throttle P2P to 1mbit 24/7... Unlikely that they'll take a step backwards like that, but equally there's nothing to stop you doing it as far as I can see. Please, if I'm mistaken, please let me know where I'm wrong.

That is something I was planning to ask about before signing up, so thanks for answering me in advance! It's a scary thought that they could do that. I'm sure if PN can, it's the same for other companies too. Hmmm. As you said, please someone in the know let us all know how true this actually is.

I'm currently on ADSL2+ with someone else and they did in fact give everyone the option to end their contracts early when they changed their traffic management. I don't know if they were obliged to do so or not though.

In reply to a post by blueacid:

I note with interest that the traffic management isn't part of the contract.

The contract says:

10.We may also take action to manage the network's performance during periods where there is a high demand. Please refer to http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/ for more details.

It's debatable, but perhaps the content of the page which the T&C's point to at the time of sign up should be applicable for the duration of the contract.

I don't know, no copy of the details are made within the contract. There's nothing that states in the contract that they'll be held to the expected speeds on that page at the time of sign up.

Clause 10 states "We may also take action to manage the network's performance". Therefore, if taking action means (say) throttling more protocols than when you signed up, they're doing what you asked them to.

I suspect that without the advice of a Plusnet bod that this contract could be interpreted either way.

In reply to a post by blueacid:

I suspect that without the advice of a Plusnet bod that this contract could be interpreted either way.

If it went that far, it wouldn't matter what Plusnet's interpretation of their document is, it matters what the Ombudsman's interpretation is.

PN seem to let customers stay on legacy products indefinitely if they wish, when these are replaced.

As for relaxing or removing speed restrictions, as several ISPs are doing, then bringing them back again after gaining new customers, that seems rather unlikely - i.e. commercial suicide, and would in any case trigger the legal requirement for them to give 30 days notice of significant deletorious effect, and allow customers to leave without penalty.

I think a mountain is being constructed here, without even a molehill in sight to start from.

Ha yes, I might well be dusting off the JCB and heaping the earth into one place

To be honest though their overall approach is to throttle bulk transfers, to the delight of latency critical applications, which suits my requirements perfectly. Therefore despite even noticing this potential issue / mound / everest (delete as you see fit) of a problem, I'm still seriously considering PN as my ISP as/when Fibre should become available!

The pages have now been updated:

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/do...

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/br...

Great to see the change in place and overall a very competitive product.

That is a massive improvement, great news.

Wow that looks excellent. Just so you know the product comparison wants updating as well.

http://usergroup.plus.net/prodcomp1.php

Seeing the huge improvement on the FTTC products, what's happening with Pro for FTTC? Is it staying the same as a £5 extra on FTTC products?

I've given the Usergroup a nudge about the changes, that page is one they look after.

Does Pro do anything with prioritising traffic? Or does it just mean usenet/p2p run at line speed all day?

Wow! Chris. It applies to ADSL2+ Extra as well! Even ADSL2+ Value is significantly better than it was.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 24-Aug-12 16:07:19)

Yep, we've been running these speeds for a while just not had the site showing them.

Pro puts all traffic in the top 2 queues (Titanium and Gold).

Just thinking ... and IPSC/IPStream?

It's the same across all of our connections.

I left Plusnet during the bad old days, but, I see good times ahead for Plusnet with these changes.

Since I download games via Steam and Origin, line speed is very important to me.

Would it be possible for Plusnet to consider a higher limit per month, for an additional fee?

Edited by deleted (Wed 29-Aug-12 16:45:38)

In reply to a post by chrisparr:

The pages have now been updated:

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/do...

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/br...

I note that external ftp is limited to 2mbps between the hours of 8-10pm.

Can somebody please let me know the kind of speeds external ftp works at outside of these hours on the fibre extra product, is it near to line speed or does it often get prioritised to much lower speeds?

Is the pro option still available as an extra and if so does this remove the speed restriction?

Does the same restrictions apply to sftp?

Hi there,

As per the first link in your quote FTP is unrestricted outside of 8-10pm so will run as fast as your line can (though I'll leave others to quote actual experience of this, hopefully they won't find anything different!)

Yes, Pro is still available as an add-on for all our accounts and it removes all restrictions.

Finally, SFTP is basically classed as SSH traffic along with anything else that works in a similar way and falls into the 'Other' category on our traffic management platform, so isn't restricted in the same way.

Hope that helps explain

Thank you for the reply.

It's only occasionally that I need to move a large file at short notice via ftp and it's usually sftp anyway but it's nice to know the restriction is only for a short period and can be removed if necessary.


I noticed this page regarding prioritisation http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/tr... on your site and noticed on the extra product that streaming is shown as slowed down.

I also noted earlier in this thread that this restriction has now been relaxed, is this correct or is this page I've linked to nothing to do with the fibre products?

It's basically down to the laws that govern what we can say about each service. Titanium is our highest priority traffic classification, and anything that doesn't fall into that category has to be advertised as 'slowed down', even if it isn't actually affected.

For example all traffic in the 'gold' category is working at line speed and we haven't seen any dropped packets in that class since before the Olympics, but we still need to state that it's 'slowed down' because it's not the highest priority class of traffic.

Hope that helps explain.

Thanks again for the prompt reply, it's most appreciated.

That sort of makes sense however the link I gave in my previous post marks streaming as slowed down instead of most other options which are listed as managed.

In a worse case scenario in our household I could see 3 machines each using bbc iplayer simultaneously so would I be correct in thinking that this is unlikely to be an issue with a fibre extra connection circa 65mb/20mb?

I suspect that hasn't been updated.
The reference to streaming was to YouTube which was specifically rate limited unlike iPlayer for example which wasn't

The showing of slowing down of streaming is a requirement of OFCOM rules.

What it means is that while the streaming priority is very high there are some protocols which are even higher (VoIP and Gaming).

In practice streaming is never affected.

Thank you very much for the info, that's just what I wanted to hear and it sounds like the service should do everything that I need.

I've just applied for my mac code from o2 and I'll start separate thread with a couple of other Plusnet phone and broadband queries and then will probably give the service a go.

Just to add to the above...

It was marked as slow because we had a rate limit set on youtube (and only youtube) because it used to download the whole video at line speed, when most users would only watch the first 15 seconds or so. The guidelines meant that we had to mark all of streaming as 'slowed' because of that. (Also just to add, we added the restriction because all that unwatched video being downloaded is a fair whack of usage that was essentially being wasted).

Happily youtube don't do this any more, so there are no longer restrictions and streaming should be on that table as 'managed' - but unfortunately we forgot to update that table even though we did update the rest of the page... we're working on that.

Excellent, thanks for the info.

This page was just quoted to me in the Fibre forum, it is still out of date, you could be losing customers!