Thinking of Moving to PlusNet But Not Sure

Hi all,

Well I am thinking of moving broadband and line rental provider away from Sky and PlusNet keeps coming up as one of the best options for me as the offer and price seems good. My main concern is how good is PlusNet as I have never used them before and have been reading the reviews online with mix feelings.

The PlusNet line checker says that Fibre up to 37MB and Broadband up to 15MB is available in my area but I am not to sure if Fibre is active in my area as the BT Openreach checker says its coming soon in Oct 2013 so are PlusNet just taking pre orders or is the BT checker behind.

Also i might have an issue with the installation of the kit for fibre as my original master socket was located in part of a room where no power sockets are located so last year i put a short extension in using BT grade cable and another new master socket which has been in use for the last year on Sky with no issues. Would they need me to use the original master socket which has no plugs located near it or would they be able to use the other one.

Chris

If this checker
https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html says you can have FTTC then its available.

The Openreach where and when website sometimes has a bit of lag.

In reply to a post by chris1357:

my original master socket was located in part of a room where no power sockets are located so last year i put a short extension in using BT grade cable and another new master socket

You really shouldn't have 2 master sockets.

Why not ? surely a second master socket can act as a line box , infact apart from the removable face plate it's not really any different to a standard line box maybe bigger but would do the same job, As long as it's wired correctly for the application you wish to use it for,

If you move to Plusnet please check their terms and conditions and prices very carefully, especially before entering an 18 months contract for a fibre and phone package.

Personally I would go for broadband only (i.e. no line rental and calls) - it may seem the more expensive option but it allows much greater flexibility.

Edit. Are you in a Plusnet "low cost area"?

Edited by 4M2 (Wed 16-Oct-13 17:17:53)

I think it's to do with the presence of more than 1 ring capacitor, surge arrestor and/or resistor in the circuit.

HI

Just checked on the BT wholesale page using my house number and postcode and I can confirm it says WBC FTTC Up to 37.1 Up to 5.9 upload -- Available. It does not work if I put my Sky landline number in.

Not sure what you mean by PlusNet low cost area but its quoting me the following prices below. I will be using it with NowTV which has Iplayer,NetFlix etc.

Unlimited Broadband First 12 Months = Monthly total £17.49 (£24.99 After) for Landline, Weekend Calls, Upto 15mb Download

Unlimited Fibre Broadband First 12 Months = Monthly total £27.49 (£34.49 After) for Landline, Weekend Calls, Upto 37mb Download

With regards to the 2nd master socket I have had no issues for last 12 months with broadband or calls. The wiring diagram I used was from the section called 'Fitting an NTE5 master socket?' http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm

Chris

Edited by deleted (Wed 16-Oct-13 21:05:15)

In reply to a post by chris1357:

Not sure what you mean by PlusNet low cost area but its quoting me the following prices below. I will be using it with NowTV which has Iplayer,NetFlix etc.

Unlimited Broadband First 12 Months = Monthly total £17.49 (£24.99 After) for Landline, Weekend Calls, Upto 15mb Download

Unlimited Fibre Broadband First 12 Months = Monthly total £27.49 (£34.49 After) for Landline, Weekend Calls, Upto 37mb Download

Those are the prices for a low cost area (Ofcom Market 2 and 3). If you were not in a low cost area, i.e on an Ofcom Market 1 exchange, the prices would be higher.

So if I was not in a lowcost area they prices would have shown different on the website.

How do you find PlusNet?

Chris

That's right, the prices would change depending on the phone number you entered. I have no complaints about Plusnet, the service has been excellent, reliable and (since I moved to FTTC) fast. I have my phone rental with Plusnet and, as has been said, you will save £2.50 a month and get better offers by doing this. Others have a different view and prefer to keep their phone with BT. For me, the landline is there mainly for the broadband so I don't care too much who I pay the rental to and having one supplier keeps it simple.

How did you find the FTTC install. Do they just change the faceplate on the master socket or install anymore stuff. There is not much online saying what they do when installing the hardware for FTTC connection

Chris

In reply to a post by chris1357:

How did you find the FTTC install. Do they just change the faceplate on the master socket or install anymore stuff. There is not much online saying what they do when installing the hardware for FTTC connection

Chris

There does seem to be a move now to the use of combined modem routers, Plusnet are, I believe, still using the separate modem and router setup which may change in the future. So that may be something to bear in mind when considering fibre.

Ideally one would want to locate the modem as close as possible to the "point of entry", the NTE5, which would mean that if combined modem routers are supplied then the router would be close to the NTE5 also. Separate modems and routers allow the modem to be connected over ethernet to the router located in another part of the premises which may be more convenient than actually moving the NTE5 or using a "data extension" kit, both of which may effectively extend the distance between the modem and the cabinet with the potential for speed reduction.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by chris1357:

How did you find the FTTC install. Do they just change the faceplate on the master socket or install anymore stuff. There is not much online saying what they do when installing the hardware for FTTC connection

There does seem to be a move now to the use of combined modem routers, Plusnet are, I believe, still using the separate modem and router setup which may change in the future. So that may be something to bear in mind when considering fibre.

The ISPs are clearly gearing up for the launch of 'self-install' FTTC, not least by launching (or preparing to launch) routers with built-in VDSL2 modems. BT Openreach have published the specifications for equipment supplied by the ISPs to their self-install customers and various trials have been run, but I don't believe the product has yet been launched.


Until self-install is launched, the only option is engineer install. The engineer fits an NTE5 if you didn't already have one, then puts an interstitial filter between the back part of the NTE5 and the faceplate. This filter provides a socket for the VDSL2 equipment and filters the DSL signal from all the extensions. If the ISP orders it, a free-of-charge data extension kit is supplied and fitted by the engineer to site the modem up to 30m from the NTE5.

The BT Openreach modem should still be supplied and used, though there are one or two examples in the forums of the engineer using the modem in a combined modem router (the recent example was an installation where a BT Infinity customer had a Home Hub 5).


I'd go for engineer install every time. The engineer should run proper tests using his diagnostic equipment before signing off the job, so any faults should be found before the engineer leaves. Unfortunately, there are some reports of contract engineers cutting corners.

An engineer install should eliminate any issues with the wiring at the served premises. VDSL2 is much more sensitive than any flavour of ADSL to wiring problems.

In reply to a post by chris1357:

Ideally one would want to locate the modem as close as possible to the "point of entry", the NTE5, which would mean that if combined modem routers are supplied then the router would be close to the NTE5 also. Separate modems and routers allow the modem to be connected over ethernet to the router located in another part of the premises which may be more convenient than actually moving the NTE5 or using a "data extension" kit, both of which may effectively extend the distance between the modem and the cabinet with the potential for speed reduction.

I agree - for optimum performance you should use Ethernet for any data wiring whenever possible.

In reply to a post by chris1357:

How did you find the FTTC install. Do they just change the faceplate on the master socket or install anymore stuff. There is not much online saying what they do when installing the hardware for FTTC connection

It was a breeze - Openreach engineer phoned from the cabinet, broadband down for a short while, arrived at house, changed faceplate (I kept the old one as it was a Clarity job), plugged in modem, tested it was connected OK, I plugged in the router and it all just worked, even managed to do a speed test before he left. Whole job over in about 30 minutes.

Loads of people have posted their experiences here and in the Fibre forum.

Yes I know a lot of folks who have their routers connected to extensions using only dangle filters (often the router may be some distance away from the NTE5 and there may be additional extensions served from it.)

Indeed an engineer install would be preferable where folks may otherwise consider sticking a modem/router on the end of possibly inappropriate home wiring. ADSL may have been satisfactory when routers were used on extensions with dangle filters but a self install of vdsl using such a setup probably would not, especially if bell wires are still left connected!

I'd go for engineer install every time. The engineer should run proper tests using his diagnostic equipment before signing off the job, so any faults should be found before the engineer leaves. Unfortunately, there are some reports of contract engineers cutting corners.

There have been a number of reports of BT OR engineers not running diagnostic checks on FTTC installs, and most (could be dependant on area) don't even get issued with the diagnostic equipment such as a Exfo orJdsu which is needed to perform these tests, They simply want to do the job and go to the next, the modem obtaining a sync is good enough for some BT engineers,There have been serveral reports of there being a fault, and the engineer telling the customer to contact ISP ,and not repairing the fault
And things such as getting a master socket being moved to a better location don't get done either, customer gets the not part of the instal sorry line ,
So for some there would be little or no benefit from an engineer install, unless they all do the job properly 100% of the time

Did you read the last sentence of that quote Tommy?

I don't think we have seen any reports of Openreach rather than sub-contract engineers doing what you describe.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 17-Oct-13 14:58:37)

Perhaps as a general rule: only if an end user has good adsl performance from the test socket will vdsl potentially perform adequately? Good adsl performance would at least possibly verify that the line from the NTE5 to the cabinet is OK?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I don't think we have seen any reports of Openreach rather than sub-contract engineers doing what you describe.

That's exactly what I was saying. There have been plenty of reports on these forums of contract engineers (Kelly and so on) plugging in a modem, seeing the line has synchronised and rushing for the door. I have not seen any reports of BT Openreach in-house engineers doing this.

And i have seen reports regarding BT openreach engineers cutting corners it's not as uncommon in some areas as you think. Just because it's a BTOR engineer doesn't always mean that they will do the job as they are suposed to do it,
A install can go like this, work done at PCP re jumpering D'side pair ect, then visit customers premiss remove lower faceplate from NTE fit the vdsl filtered faceplate and replace lower faceplate using longer screws, un box BT modem plug into a spare mains power socket connect the DSL RJ11 cable to the filtered faceplate (top) and to modem, wait for it to sync, check the install diag using iphone ,& sign job off, and go to next job, total time at customers premis 10mins , No checks made as to what the sync was ,or for other potential issues and the customer in some cases could end up paying £92 for that,

As for some of the 3rd pary subbies ie kelly coms ect, they can't even manage the above properly
And that's when they actually turn up at the booked time and date

Edited by tommy45 (Thu 17-Oct-13 16:15:02)

That's how it is done in some areas Tommy. A remote test is carried out, rather than a local one, and the OR engineer get an OK or a problem report.

What you described what the local test method being omitted by contractors, and incorrect installations by them as well.

And the remote tests are useless most of the time, And i don't feel the charge by BT OR for FTTC installs is justified @(£92.00) unless they also carry out local tests with a JDSU or EXFO as this is what they are supposed to do, infact they (BT-OR), if i'm not mistaken are supposed to carry out some basic tests locally each time they perform any work on a line,

Edited by tommy45 (Thu 17-Oct-13 18:30:14)

One thing I have not asked about is how good is the PlusNet non FIbre broadband. Do they profile the connections like BT use to as I have been on LLU for a few years

Chris

In reply to a post by chris1357:

One thing I have not asked about is how good is the PlusNet non FIbre broadband. Do they profile the connections like BT use to as I have been on LLU for a few years

Chris

Yes, also for you Plusnet would be a good deal since you are in a "low cost area".

And, for example, if you take their ADSL "broadband only" product then you can upgrade to vdsl "broadband only" for a reduced activation fee of £25 in the future

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 17-Oct-13 18:07:52)

In reply to a post by chris1357:

Do they profile the connections like BT use to as I have been on LLU for a few years

Yes, and they add an additional profile that they call "Current line speed" which is the BT profile rounded down to the nearest 100kbps. Occasionally this gets stuck at a lower value than it should. I'm not trying to put you off joining Plusnet, just trying to state the facts.

As kasg says. However the IP Profile on FTTC is a completely different system to the old 500kbps stepped one that took ages to adjust itself.

On ADSL2+ it is 88.2% of the sync speed. On FTTC it is 96.79% of the sync speed. On both it adjusts immediately the sync changes, with the PlusNet rounded down copy adjusting something like twice a day.

As kasg says, the PlusNet copy can fail to update. It is possible disconnecting the router, (not the modem), for ten minutes would fix that, but most people ring support and get it altered with no service interruption.

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone its good to get a mix reviews of what a ISP is like.

Still not decided yet which product to go with on plusnet

When you say "which product", do you mean "unlimited v allowance", or "with/without phone"?

Allowance products are subject to speed restrictions.

My view on PlusNet is that when I left O2 LLU I went IDNet FTTC. At the end of my 12 month minimum term, in February 2012, I decided nervously to take a punt on the far cheaper 40GB allowance package from PlusNet. Phone staying with BT Retail.

In January this year, 11 months into the 18-month term, I upgraded to the new unlimited FTTC, with no nervousness at all.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

As kasg says. However the IP Profile on FTTC is a completely different system to the old 500kbps stepped one that took ages to adjust itself.

On ADSL2+ it is 88.2% of the sync speed. On FTTC it is 96.79% of the sync speed. On both it adjusts immediately the sync changes, with the PlusNet rounded down copy adjusting something like twice a day.

As kasg says, the PlusNet copy can fail to update. It is possible disconnecting the router, (not the modem), for ten minutes would fix that, but most people ring support and get it altered with no service interruption.

So with Plusnet ADSL2 if you have 15 minutes of noise on your line that causes a disconnect and the modem automatically syncs you back at a really slow speed due to the noise can you switch off the modem after the noise passes and be straight back at a decent speed again?

Thanks

If DLM intervened then normally no,as It could stay at the lower speed for days or weeks, But how the connection is configured may have some influence on DLM As ISP's do now have some control over 21CN ADSL2+ connections,

They can set the Target SNR manually ,Interleave can be disabled , It may be possible that DLM can be disabled also, although the manual setting of a 3db noise margin and no interleave may do that ,

Whilst both these settings would potentially increase the rate your connection sync's at and provides lower latency , If there is a lot of interference affecting the dsl signal, then this could impact the actual throughput as well as possibly more frequent disconnects,

So it's really a case of what you want from the connection, and how you use it, as well as what you are prepared to tollerate, The burst of noise /errors could also be a line fault

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 18-Oct-13 18:50:14)

In reply to a post by think26872:

So with Plusnet ADSL2 if you have 15 minutes of noise on your line that causes a disconnect and the modem automatically syncs you back at a really slow speed due to the noise can you switch off the modem after the noise passes and be straight back at a decent speed again?

That's a bit more complex, as 15 minutes of noise is quite a long time. Exceptional I would suggest. As Tommy says, possibly indicative of a line fault.

Wrt Chris's original query about profiling, which I took to mean IP Profiles, given something like a nearby lightning flash causing the low sync, the answer is yes. A re-sync would fix it with an immediate return to a high IP Profile.

If however there were a number of such over your 15 minute period there could well be an effect on the sync-time noise margin, causing a loss of sync speed for a considerable period. SNRM adjustments do still take a few weeks of stability to reset automatically.

I suffered from long periods of noise on O2. In the end a pair swap fixed it, but the new line was consistently 700kbps lower sync.

Then a year or so later it started again . It was a nuisance only, as dialling the Quiet line test and letting that run for a few minutes fixed it immediately. No long-term effect.

It got to the point where the line was unusable for long periods every day, but I didn't want the hassle of getting it fixed with another probable huge speed loss. (From 5Mbps or so sync). Finally cured by moving to FTTC which eliminated the dodgy e-side cables. I knew from several engineers that the e-side main cable was in a terrible state - and had witnessed them trying to get a useable phone connection pair, never mind broadband.

On a BT Wholesale connection such as PlusNet, my long periods of noise would have completely wrecked the connection speed, initially by raising the SNRM and in the end by imposing sync speed banding, probably at unusable levels.

Which sounds horrendous, but in fact would mean getting the underlying fault fixed. Which could be regarded as a better solution than being able to wade through it on O2.

As my problem was e-side, on FTTC it doesn't occur. If it had been d-side then it would and would need fixing. There's a big difference between a noise event and a faulty line.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 18-Oct-13 23:28:29)

Well I decided to order the plusnet fibre which I have an install date in 2 weeks time.

I also added the free Fibre Extension Kit option but it was not clear what this was but I added it to the order as my master socket is located noware near power sockets so I guest they will locate the openreach kit and router in another location?

Chris

Just make sure that the installer fits a filtered faceplate on the NTE5 and runs the "data extension", which can be up to 30 meters long, to the preferred modem location - there have been some stories of contractors doing "cowboy" installations and not filtering the voice extensions etc. properly.

It should be fine .

I assume you ordered the Unlimited package?

If so, given your estimates (below 40/10) there is a possibility they will provision it at 40/10 speeds but with the "unlimited" specification in all other respects. If you get the full 37Mbps (throughput) and above estimate upstream, it may be worth asking them to up it to 80/20.

Depending on what modem Openreach supply, we may be able to get a look at the line stats to see exactly what the line is capable of and whether it is worth worrying about. Though Openreach have recently updated the firmwares, making that not quite so easy .

Yes, the Fibre Extension kit allows them to install the modem up to 30 metres away. Or even to move the master if that would be useful. Is there a phone at the master?

Yes I ordered the Unlimited Package with Land Line and weekend calls. Our Sky stuff stops on the 12th/13th and I think the install day for PlusNet is the 13th.

There is no phone at the master socket but over a year back I put in a new master socket from this one to another part of the room which is 5m away as I wanted to locate my phone and router next to TV. I guest they wont be able to use the extended master socket I put in but it should be an easy install for them.

Should I remove the ext I put in ready on the day?

What does the faceplate look like that they should fit?

Depends how easy it will be for him to remove the cabling and it on the day. I assume having both sets would look a mess. On the other hand, removing it yourself may be more carefully done wrt bits of paint coming away with cable clips.

Though I'm not sure having an FTTC modem close to the TV is a great idea.

Photo of my master on this page. An ugly lump.(Normal surface-mounted NTE5 box + VDSL2 interstitial filer plate + standard NTE5A caseplate. You can also see it in bits here. What do you have now?