Yourcalls & Plus.Net

With Yourcalls being taken over by Plus.Net, our telephone is being taken over by the latter - which isn't something that is desired as there are much cheaper telephone providers (especially with line rental).

Do we have to wait until the 1st December before changing telephone providers, or can it be done before then ?

Where's that info come from?

The letter received today ?

From PlusNet, or from Yourcalls?

If Yourcalls, I doubt if there will be many around in here. I don't remember seeing much about it anywhere - though there was this thread that we both posted in.

Flavour of the month seems to be Zen for lines.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 04-Nov-13 23:55:22)

Just cuz a firm's being taken over doesn't prevent you changing phone provider.

From Plus.Net - hence the reason for posting here.

They have been very good - especially with the price of line rental.

Edited by deleted (Tue 05-Nov-13 02:08:23)

We don't want to be without a line if providers are changed halfway moving everything over to Plus.net

It's only a paper exercise. Lines remain connected to BTw kit.

I believe Plusnet do Line Rental Saver that signficantly reduces costs if you are willing to pay a year up front.

They don't say how much it is in total though.

Another complication may be that I dont pay for the telephone/line rental - that is all in someone else's name - will everything be moved over to my Plus.Net account or will it be kept separate ?

Edited by deleted (Tue 05-Nov-13 10:32:34)

In reply to a post by MrTAToad2:

They don't say how much it is in total though.

It's £131.88 (equivalent to £10.99 a month).

Plusnet don't do a phone/line rental package on it's own using the Plusnet brand it has to be BB and phone or just BB.

Edited by Apprentice (Tue 05-Nov-13 13:53:00)

But if PN is taking over Yourcalls, then they will be doing Phone only for the transferees.

@OP: Which will be done under the existing account holders' names, as their contracts will be subsumed.

Hi,

The phone will be on a separate account, and we're moving people across on like for like (given the personalised tariffs available on YourCalls this was definitely the way to go). If you wanted to migrate it out it'd be done in the standard way - just let the new provider know and they'll get the order placed.

If you did want to move it onto your PN account I suspect we could do this without the usual waiting/ordering but will need to confirm that (assuming that is something you've thought about doing).

What's happening about Yourcalls broadband orbrey? Looks to have been a very "budget" set of products.

Thanks for the information.

Basically everyone's being moved onto our Unlimited product, so it's not a bad deal really

Apologies, just been asking some more questions about this and it turns out I was almost entirely incorrect... sorry about that.

* Line rental will stay the same as you were paying with YourCalls
* Call prices will be the same as we charge existing customers (as per http://www.plus.net/home-broadband/tariffs/ )
* Your phone will be added to your existing broadband account

Really sorry about getting that so wrong in the first place.

EDIT: Added a space at the end of the URL so the closing bracket doesn't get included (thanks Apprentice )

Edited by deleted (Wed 06-Nov-13 10:12:13)

Ah good, nice to see the line rental costs will be just as low.

So the payers account information will be moved over to my account then ? I presume all payments will then be taken on the same day (as currently payments are on completely different days) ?

Any chance of introductory special offer discounts ?

Edited by deleted (Wed 06-Nov-13 13:41:09)

In reply to a post by orbrey:

* Your phone will be added to your existing broadband account

So the current account holder of the phone will be slammed, even w/out seeking his permission?

Yes, the phone will be billed on the same day as the broadband once it's been moved over. I'd guess there'll either be a pro-rata payment or discount depending on which way that ends up moving the date.

There won't be any introductory offers or discounts though.

That's a somewhat dramatic way of phrasing the question.

All the Yourcalls customers have been notified by post of the takeover already. Yes we will be taking ownership of the assets, but I very much doubt anyone would view it as being 'slammed'.

I'm not querying you taking over all the assets incl. existing contracts, but you switching the account holder details on the contract w/out 1st getting the permission of that a/c holder.

Example: A parent rents phone line from YourCalls. One of his children places PN BB on that phone line with parent's permission.

Now that you are taking over YourCalls, you will takeover the parent's phone contract. You are saying that you will merge the parent's phone a/c into the child's BB a/c. Does the parent want that? Have you sought his agreement? It's his decision.

One side effect will be that the child will be billed for both phone + BB. Or will it be the other way round? It is quite likely that the patent wants to pay for the phone but allowed the child to have BB on it on condition that the child paid for the BB.

OTOH it may be that if the child is paying extra for having PN BB Only then the household will save money by having them together.

But in the final analysis it is up to the parent to decide how he wants it and you need to ask his permission whether he wants the 2 a/c's merged and, if so, how.

Well, as I said the owners of the phone line have already received a letter explaining what's going to happen and how it'll work. If there's already PN broadband on the line that's moving, that's mentioned in the letter as well as an explanation of how it'll be merged into the existing broadband account - so if there are any circumstances such as you mention, they'll have already been able to contact Yourcalls (or us, after November 1st) and address this. To my knowledge that's not happened, though it may have and I've not heard about it.

You'll probably start hearing about it when someone who was expecting a bill for broadband only gets billed for the phone as well.

Can you confirm that you sent a letter to BOTH account holders (the Yourcalls phone and the PN broadband account holders) where they were different? Just notifying the holder of the phone account only is NOT sufficient.

It may not be parent and child, it could be shared accommodation where one person pays the phone and another the broadband. The person paying for the phone gets the letter and thinks if I keep quiet I won't be billed for the phone.

Also, is suddenly billing someone for extra charges without getting their permission not illegal?

Edited by jelv (Wed 06-Nov-13 15:48:16)

In reply to a post by orbrey:

If there's already PN broadband on the line that's moving, that's mentioned in the letter as well as an explanation of how it'll be merged into the existing broadband account

Well, at least you've covered the base I'm concerned about in the letter. So they will have been warned that you are removing their ownership of the phone line and so can object.

Good point! Overlooked that as assumed both a/c holders were in communication, as is the OP.

Well, technically speaking broadband can't be installed on a line without the permission of the line owner, so if broadband has been installed on their line in someone else's name it's their responsibility.

However, I do see your point - I'm just waiting for the person who arranged all the letter sends to become available so I can ask them about this.

Actually in my case the bill payer didn't get the letter - I did (it was addressed to me, and I dont pay the line rental/telephone). I used to for YourCalls, but stopped several years ago now...

Edited by deleted (Thu 07-Nov-13 00:48:33)

Further thoughts:

I gave just 1 example of shared occupancy between a Yourcalls phone renter and a PN BB customer. Of course it applies equally well to house sharers, as previously pointed out, and landlord & tenant, where in all cases the landline owner has given permission to the BB user to install BB on the owner's line and for the BB user to bear the BB cost. Is it right for a landlord to be deprived of his own landline in his own house and for the tenant to bear the cost of the phone previously agreed to be supplied by the landlord, just cuz the tenant chose PN as his ISP? That would indeed be dramatic slamming !

Also by PN assigning the phone contract unilaterally to the BB customer, a third-party to that contract, if it is indeed allowed by the T&Cs, PN has broken the phone contract with the other first party to the contract. Thereby opening itself to adverse legal action. It's not like you can plead that the slamming was caused by other suppliers, like BT OR, outside your control, as in previous cases; you would have brought it upon yourselves.

Found anything out?

Some, but more is needed before I can post anything. I've nudged a couple of the guys in marketing and will be chasing them up this afternoon, realise we can't leave this over the weekend without an update.

Hi all,

Right, we've had some chats about this and made sure your points are raised to the people managing the project. There's only been the one letter sent out to all the customers, we've not yet sent the comms to those customers whose lines also have PN broadband on. We'll need to check the data we have to see if we do have any users with different names/payment details between the accounts, if there's not then it's less of an issue, but either way we'll make sure this is taken into account and update you with the decisions made (when they are).

Hope that sounds a bit more promising.

EDIT: Apologies, realise I should clarify this a bit. We've sent a letter to all the customers on 24talk and their other visps/incarnations letting them know what's happening. What we haven't done is sent a second letter to customers who have Plusnet broadband on their 24talk phone line explaining how the merging will work - that's what's under discussion now, and that's what I'll be updating on.

Sorry about that not being clear!

Edited by deleted (Fri 08-Nov-13 17:14:16)

In reply to a post by orbrey:

There's only been the one letter sent out to all the customers, we've not yet sent the comms to those customers whose lines also have PN broadband on.

All what custs? Just those with YourCalls BB? Thal's not 'all'.

The OP's YourCalls line owner does not seem to have received one.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

All what custs? Just those with YourCalls BB? Thal's not 'all'.

You're correct, it's not - which is why that's not what I meant. Every customer who has a service run by 24talk and their other incarnations that we're taking over has received a letter letting them know that we are taking over that service, whether that service be phone, broadband, or both.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

The OP's YourCalls line owner does not seem to have received one.

If that's the case, then with respect how does he know we're taking his service over?

EDIT: In fact he confirms he received a letter in this post?

I hope the post you've quoted above makes more sense now? Please let me know if anything else needs clarifying.

Edited by deleted (Fri 08-Nov-13 16:37:49)

Sorry, I did not see where 'we've not yet sent the comms to those customers whose lines also have PN broadband on.' came into it; it seemed to contradict 'all'. I now think you mean the subsidiary letters to YourCalls line renters who happen to have PN BB on it, possibly under another name.

In reply to a post by orbrey:

If that's the case, then with respect how does he know we're taking his service over?

With respect, he doesn't directly. It's the OP, the PN BB cust but not a YourCalls cust, who got the letter, but the OP's YourCalls line owner & bill payer did not. See his post: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/t/4280715-r... . How could that come about?

The Edit clarifies everything. Thanks.

It's the gist of the 2nd letter that will be interesting and needs to be carefully worded.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

It's the OP, the PN BB cust but not a YourCalls cust, who got the letter, but the OP's YourCalls line owner & bill payer did not. See his post: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/t/4280715-r... . How could that come about?

Good question - not sure on that one. We used the data we got from 24Talk to send the letters out, I'd guess his details were still on the account even though the billing information had changed - but I don't know that for sure, I don't have direct access to the data. If you or the OP would like that checking on I'll ask some questions, but that's what I think happened.

No problems, sorry it wasn't clear in the first place.

And, agreed - thanks to yourself and Jelv for raising the questions, we'll see what happens from here and I'll try and keep you posted.

It might be worth getting it checked, to make sure it doesn't foreshadow future problems...

It does look as though it's already causing problems - payment is a week earlier than it should have been...

So another large ISp taking over a smaller one. the ways things are going all we will have is Talk Talk, Plusnet/BT, sky and EE.

EE is BT Wholesale white label.

Vodafone are still there in a big way. Cable & Wireless is now owned by them.

So the list becomes TT, BT, Sky, Vodafone.

How are we defining an ISP? A provider of consumer services? A provider of wholesale DSL? Any independent entity that sells fixed broadband service?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

EE is BT Wholesale white label.

Maybe so, but it is still another large ISP.

Vodafone are still there in a big way. Cable & Wireless is now owned by them.

That is true, a mate of mine is still with Vivaciti on the C&W network and still happy with them, so happy in fact that he is not bothering with fibre.

In reply to a post by David_W:

How are we defining an ISP? A provider of consumer services? A provider of wholesale DSL? Any independent entity that sells fixed broadband service?

Define it as you wish, the point is it is still less choice and and another smaller ISP gone. Plusnet took one of the best ISPs I have used Metronet, so I am still annoyed with them for that. One of the reason I would not use Plusnet and another is because they belong to bloated Toad.

But it is not just Plusnet taking these suppliers over, Talk Talk and sky are doing the same thing.

Every ISP that is taken over, gives us less choice and the problem is, apart from plusnet, none of the other large ones give people a choice on who to have their line rental with.

I am so glad i live where i do at the moment, I have a choice of using a small local ISP and do not have to give money to BT for their phone line even directly or indirectly.

Of cause that could change next year if i decide to move.

Haven't received this months phone bill - Yourcalls now absolve themselves of all interest and state that everything is now Plus.Net's responsibility/problem :

Thank you for your recent enquiry. Plusnet have recently acquired the Yourcalls business, and have migrated your telephone services onto their own network.

All your bills, from October onwards, should now come from Plusnet. Your monthly line rental and call package with Plusnet should be the same, or slightly lower, for the next 12months.

All customer support queries can now be raised on the Plusnet website at: http://my.plus.net, with your account username and password. This can also be found on the welcome letter and password letter you have been sent by Plusnet.

Whilst it could arrive on the 31st, the chances are...slim, and I would prefer costs not be to be backdated, although a free month would certainly be acceptable, especially as the take-over isn't actually suppose to happen 'till February...

I also presume prices will also increase to whatever Plus.Nets costs will be a year from now...

Edited by deleted (Thu 30-Jan-14 02:00:49)