iPad and accessing PN emails?

Hi All

I bought an iPad mini for SWMBO for Xmas and hit a stumbling block when helping her set up the email???

Seeing Outlook I surmised it was "MS Outlook" as used on her PC and tried to use the PN password and [email protected] (i.e the username) but now it seems it is Outlook.com that is needed................so a tad perplexed :lol:

Is it possible for her to access her PN mailbox and if so how to do it???

So, any iPad users with feedback as to what is possible and how to set it up plus any feedback as to what to do/what you have done if not possible?

TIA

over at PN Portal ~ doh! http://www.plus.net/support/email/setup/ios-setup.shtml

On the surmise all works what do I choose in regard to POP3 or IMAP??? The reason I ask is that she uses a mailbox setup on my account and that in her MS Outlook is using POP3.................so for the purposes of the iPad it seems IMAP is best but can the iPad use IMAP and other devices like the PC with it's MS Outlook use POP3 or will there be a conflict??? Or is the choice of POP3 vs IMAP device independent?

Many thanks in advance for any insights on making sure the setup is done correctly

Generally POP3 will download your email and delete from the server.
This would mean that it wouldn't exist anymore to be accessed by your other devices.

Looks like Outlook will let you leave a copy on the server however:
Link

If this is the case you could just set up the Ipad to use IMAP and make sure that Outlook is configured to leave a copy on the server when it retrieves mail.

Even better in my view would be to switch to IMAP in Outlook if possible. That way you have one email database that you can edit and access from both devices.

Much tidier. Especially if you are going to throw a smartphone into the mix as well

In reply to a post by gmoorc:

Generally POP3 will download your email and delete from the server.
This would mean that it wouldn't exist anymore to be accessed by your other devices.

Looks like Outlook will let you leave a copy on the server however:
Link

If this is the case you could just set up the Ipad to use IMAP and make sure that Outlook is configured to leave a copy on the server when it retrieves mail.

Even better in my view would be to switch to IMAP in Outlook if possible. That way you have one email database that you can edit and access from both devices.

Much tidier. Especially if you are going to throw a smartphone into the mix as well

Hi

Many thanks for the reply

I have setup all the mailboxes to leave emails on the server for a set number of days this was my way of 'insuring' against PC crashes??? But IMAP does look more bullet proof..............but I have numerous mailboxes setup and as such if/when I make them over en masse over to IMAP I would need to be sure that making changes to all of them would be as smooth as possible ideally keeping/copying the passwords etc. Also I ma not clear in such an IMAP multi mailbox setup whether the individually addressed emails are as now easily identifiable in MS Outlook based on the received address(es)???

So thinking about this current situation can individual mailboxes on the same account be either POP3 or IMAP and as such based on your feedback by making sure the "save on server" in Outlook is set for enough days such that if the iPad is configured to IMAP not POP3 that there will be no losses! And as such would creating the iPad email access convert the Outlook POP3 accessed same account into an IMAP type or leave alone but have other unforeseen consequences???

Think of your mail host as A. The bosses existing Outlook uses POP3, call it B. If you use IMAP on the iPad we'll call that C.

B can delete from A as soon as deleted, which I think is common. Or, the parameters in B can be set not to delete from A for "n" days, which is how you have wisely set it.

If you delete from B, it doesn't actually delete. It moves it to the Deleted folder. That again can be emptied in different ways, as I expect you know, but if something in that deleted folder is "deleted" from there, it is deleted from A whether or not the expiry time has been reached.

C never deletes from A on the grounds of a time limit expiring, but similarly to B it deletes from A when the item is finally deleted from C.

Only two nasties that spring to mind. If something is first downloaded (i.e. copied) to C, then completely deleted from C before being downloaded to B, it never gets to B. So can be lost. And when something is deleted from A by B, the next refresh or reread of C doesn't see it either.

Whereas if C could use POP3, then once something is downloaded a deletion on B or C, although it may delete it on A, does not affect the other downloaded version.

That gives you a number of permutations regarding the prevention of the loss of important emails. Each of us may desire a different permutation and it is hard to advise.

I'm not sure how clear that is, but it may help. The subject is a little complex. Sometimes I feel my move completely to IMAP on all clients was wise, other times I curse it.

With 2 x IMAP it is easier and more convenient to control A from either device, but the change on A is reflected to the other device which can be a mini-disaster. With 2 x POP3 it can be clunky to maintain but is safer. With 1 x POP2 and 1 x IMAP I used to get confused, as on POP3 I used to have it set to check every 10 minutes.

I'm not sure the best option isn't to use webmail to access A from the iPad.

Hi Roberto

Many thanks for the view/insight/explanation ~ phew!

This subject needs carefull thought and maybe best to stick to POP3 but before doing so (try) to find out how an iPad handles deletions??? Plus had not thought of "webmail" as an option! Hmmmm?

Obviously need it to be safe, secure and as little risk as possible or conflicts between devices accessing the same emails.

If you can get POP3 on the iPad that is safest but clunky. I only recently got an iPad and use it with IMAP, but sparingly. Mainly to read, maybe send, but not delete. IIRC I didn't find a satisfactory POP3 client, but I'm sure there will be one when the Apple eaters see this.

Another thing. That I just sort of got in a mess with.

When you say Outlook, are you referring to the posh Outlook; Outlook Express; or Outlook.com. Outlook.com is the most idiotic Microsoft naming ever - it is a rename of Hotmail . So when you meet Apps referring to Outlook, make sure which it is. An email client, or webmail/Hotmail. The latter of course doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If you can get POP3 on the iPad that is safest but clunky. I only recently got an iPad and use it with IMAP, but sparingly. Mainly to read, maybe send, but not delete. IIRC I didn't find a satisfactory POP3 client, but I'm sure there will be one when the Apple eaters see this.

In respect or POP3 on the iPad according to a PN guide it is possible to use POP3 or IMAP and that is what got me reading/asking about best methodology. Especially bearing in mind your A, B,C scenario potentially causing issues if C using POP3 downloads an email and it is deleted on C which if it does not have default or settable controls to leave emails on the server and only(?) delete locally before the same email is viewed or kept on B?

Edit ~ the PN guide page is here http://www.plus.net/support/email/setup/ios-setup.shtml

Edited by deleted (Thu 26-Dec-13 00:36:22)

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

And as such would creating the iPad email access convert the Outlook POP3 accessed same account into an IMAP type or leave alone but have other unforeseen consequences???

POP3 and IMAP are merely alternate transfer protocols for downloading emails from the the same email server. Using them does not affect the email server at all. Think of it as choosing to take a bus or underground from Victoria Station to Paddington Station. Whichever you chose, both stations remain standing as they have for over 100 years .

Not all email servers provide IMAP access, so your various mailboxes may or may not be accessed by both POP3 or IMAP depending on what protocols the email servers offer.

I would prefer using the iPad's email client than using Webmail. It is probably cleanest to consider the PC's access as the master holding the emails you want to keep for some time and use the iPad just to read the latest emails, discarding those that are of no further interest and holding off deleting the important ones until the PC has had a chance to read them. (or vica versa but the PC has more storage?).

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Another thing. That I just sort of got in a mess with.

When you say Outlook, are you referring to the posh Outlook; Outlook Express; or Outlook.com. Outlook.com is the most idiotic Microsoft naming ever - it is a rename of Hotmail . So when you meet Apps referring to Outlook, make sure which it is. An email client, or webmail/Hotmail. The latter of course doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing.

Ah! as per my OP I am referring to MS Outlook as installed on a PC

Most POP3 email clients do have an option to 'Leave on Server', but it is not the default and you need to change this setting as soon a new account is created in the email client, if that is what you want.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

And as such would creating the iPad email access convert the Outlook POP3 accessed same account into an IMAP type or leave alone but have other unforeseen consequences???

POP3 and IMAP are merely alternate transfer protocols for downloading emails from the the same email server. Using them does not affect the email server at all. Think of it as choosing to take a bus or underground from Victoria Station to Paddington Station. Whichever you chose, both stations remain standing as they have for over 100 years .

Not all email servers provide IMAP access, so your various mailboxes may or may not be accessed by both POP3 or IMAP depending on what protocols the email servers offer.

I would prefer using the iPad's email client than using Webmail. It is probably cleanest to consider the PC's access as the master holding the emails you want to keep for some time and use the iPad just to read the latest emails, discarding those that are of no further interest and holding off deleting the important ones until the PC has had a chance to read them. (or vica versa but the PC has more storage?).

Hi

Thanks for the reply & insight

PN do allow for either (both?) protocols including with the iPad please see here http://www.plus.net/support/email/setup/ios-setup.shtml so in regard to your second paragraph I need PN input as to what is possible and 'good'/best setup???

I take your point in the third paragraph and that would require a disciplined approach as to on what device one is using and the handling of said emails ~ e.g. if replying and c'c'ing oneself the reply would ensure the threading of the email such that the original if deleted even accidently would not matter? But have a method pre-supposes that the iPad's email client handles the emails elegantly in that it does not download & remove from the server in any form possibly even if deleted on the iPad???

In reply to a post by Routefinder:

I need PN input as to what is possible and 'good'/best setup???

Yes, PN offer POP3 or IMAP for any email client but as for their advice they mistakenly believe POP3 always deletes from server:

POP3

As messages are downloaded to your computer, they are removed from our mail system. After downloading, messages are stored on your computer until you delete them.

It's really horses for courses.

it does not download & remove from the server in any form possibly even if deleted on the iPad???

IMAP will always delete from server when deleted on device; with POP3 you can choose.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Most POP3 email clients do have an option to 'Leave on Server', but it is not the default and you need to change this setting as soon a new account is created in the email client, if that is what you want.

Further Googling threw this page up http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3228 if you click on the seond one down re iPad etc it mentions advanced settings re leave "never delete from server" but the screengrabs show a 'deleted' messages setting delete after one week.....................could that be local settings only with as per the settings in the field below the server copy is left intact??? May be tired but to me it seems a tad unclear???

Presume that page relates only to POP3. You are tired! 'Server' does mean 'Server' as do all the other fields.

I think XRaySpex and myself are basically saying the same thing, but with differing emphasis and clarity at various points.

Your point, independent of what methodology is used, that a disciplined approach is needed is the major issue. Once that is in place the rest is very much down to personal preference. Probably influenced, like most software usage, by what you first used and became accustomed to. I don't think there is a "best".

IMAP seems to me to be gaining popularity versus POP3. I of course started with POP3, and dislike webmail. IMAP sort of combines the two in my mind, and after vacillating a bit I have used IMAP via Thunderbird for the last few years on laptops, and recently webmail on the iPad for my domains, with webmail on the iPad for my few gmail/Hotmail accounts.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

with webmail on the iPad for my few gmail/Hotmail accounts.

Both can be more cleanly accessed by POP3 (& prob IMAP) on port 995 and SMTP on port 587 for Outlook.com and on port 465 for GMail.

I'll look into that . Still learning on the iPad. Multiple accounts is the issue, and I expect you are right that IMAP or POP3 would be preferable, bringing them into a unified interface.

I just found the way I have it at the moment the easiest to set up with reasonable convenience initially.

Is it true that with IMAP you need to be online all the time to read your existing emails? PN seems to think it is:

IMAP

As your messages are kept on our mail system, you'll need to be connected to the Internet to read them.

That would be a disadvantage of using IMAP that doesn't hold for POP3.

But I seem to remember that IMAP msgs are kept on PC by mail clients in IMAP folders, per server, separate from the local amalgamated POP3 folders.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 26-Dec-13 05:31:54)

PN are oversimplifying the advice for non-techie readers... there's nothing wrong with that... We of course know that you can sync and enable off-line reading of IMAP connected mailboxes.

What's the point of making untrue blanket statements when the simple addition of the word 'usually' will render it accurate for everybody?

I don't 'of course know'; that is why I'm asking! Not sure you have answered it. Haven't used IMAP for nearly 10 years.

Agreed - but its a pretty trivial statement so I'm not too hung up about it, I would have expected the rest to be common sense. I have to say I am quite surprised you don't know that IMAP folders etc can be saved for offline reading - mail client dependant of course (just like POP3).

Edited by Pipexer (Thu 26-Dec-13 16:26:50)

As I said I couldn't remember, it's been so long, even tho' I was involved in implementing IMAP, and other, servers.

In your original post , you said it needed enabling. What needs enabling? Certainly not the server and I can't think of a client that needs anything special doing, once the IMAP a/c has been defined to it. The emails are either in the client or they are not.

By default usually they work in cached mode nowadays, so a copy of the email is held on the client, but the option is certainly available to not work in a cached mode, i.e., the headers are downloaded off the server and only when you click on the email the contents is downloaded, and therefore if you do disconnect from the internet, you won't be able to read any email messages. Very similar concept to newsgroups.

Ah, yes, I now remember them well from thenadays!

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

The emails are either in the client or they are not.

As you remind me, they can be half in the client

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 27-Dec-13 02:45:31)

I use Thunderbird on my PC and there is an option in the Accounts section to keep local copies, so for instance, I keep local copies of folders in my Personal Mail address, but not my Gmail one, which I use for buying things, forums etc.

This of course speeds up downloading of Personal stuff as well as it only needs to download new items, whereas my Gmail stuff can take a bit longer as it has to download anything that is not cached, this could be a bit tedious if you don't have a fast machine