D/L Speed

Hello every one in this new year.

Just a quick question please. If I was to try a different modem could it possibly increase or decrease my d/l rate? That is to say I am normal copper Unlimited usage and get approx 3Mbs D/L rate?.
I just wondered if there was any way other than moving to Fibre to get the speed up at all.

Thanks Osh.

If you post the information asked for here we may be able to give you some advise.

Hi All

Here are the stats you asked for Thanks.

First from My Account I got this
High-speed Broadband

Estimated line speed:
There's no speed estimate currently held on your account.
Current line speed:
3.1 Mb


From BT speed Test

Broadband Speed Test Results
Download speed (Mbps): 2.98
Upload speed (Mbps): 0.30
Ping Latency (ms): 59.50



From the Modem
DSL Connection

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 7:35:37
Modulation: G.992.3 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 3,399
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 229.38 / 3.60
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.0 / 51.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 21.5 / 15.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 70 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 80
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 41

And Iv been with Force9/PlusNet for over 13 years and well over 5 years on this Modem/router

As well as the slow speeds I do tend to drop my line quite regularly I do get the odd 5-6 days up but most resets dayly and sometime a few times daily ?

Regs Osh

This is why your default noise margin has been increased to 15dB
You need to raise a disconnections fault with Plusnet - https://faults.plus.net

As Jim has said the disconnections are causing your speeds to be lower. To answer your original question, if you have suspicions about your router it could be that a different one will hold sync better which would lead to better speeds. It might be worth borrowing one to test.

Do you use wireless to the router? If you don't the Plusnet router is absolutely fine for wired connections and it will only cost you the P&P.

Hi

Right I understand the 15Db is because the disconnections.

Also I use Wireless more than anything else What with having a daughter with Iphone Tablet and having to do lots of homework on her laptop. Plus I have the TV things RoKu which are wireless and so is the printer And finally my laptop although I can get to it with cat 5 if needed,

I do have a Linksys thats around the same age It might be a year or so newer I can set that up and give it a try ?

With the disconnections could it be my router or could it be at plus.nets end Jim? and would it be best to try out another modem/router first or put a question to plus.net first?

Thanks. Osh

The usual reason for high noise levels which lead to disconnects, higher target noise margin, and lower sync rate are the home internal wiring. Although a faulty router or even a faulty line are possibilities you'd be best advised to start checking with your internal phone wiring - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm Eliminating plug in extensions and/or the ring wire on hard wired ones usually brings an improvement.

If you can get the disconnections sorted, you are looking at 5Mbps sync instead of the 3399kbps.

Have a read of the first three and the last topics on this page.

Hi and thanks for the reply.

Its funny you should say about the internal wiring. quite a few years ago. I had this same conversation I was only getting just over 1/2Mb upload and I ripped out all the wiring and hard wired the router/Modem(which is still the same one) into the master socket with a long cable that was terminated with the modem plug at the modem end but pushed into the master plug with the proper BT inserting tool. ( I did it right as I used to have to do some Telecoms wiring as part of my job many years ago. I was a Alarm installer so had to hard wire alarm panels into the phone system for 999/alarm receiving centres to be made and still have the gear.
Anyway The modem is upstarirs and at the time got it up from 0.6Mbps to just under 2.5Mbps that if I remember right was around 3 1/2 4 years ago But since hasonly gone up to just over 3Mbs. Also Im sure at one stage It did get up to just over 5Mbps for a short time but then went back down to the 2.8 - 3.1 I get now. Dont get mewrong It almost does everything I want it to I get all I need It even does I Player and the odd 4OD but if I dare use it to have a look at Netflicks or any of the other channels I can get on my RoKu then it turns round and laughs at me.Even some times when I try and stream you tube videos it sits and buffers LOL But I would think 5Mbps might be ok for some of those I have just mentioned. I mean I dont need them by any means it might be nice to just be able to look and see something then know you could watch it,
And with my illnesses and the medication that I am on I dont get that much sleep and am not very mobile at all so the TV is a major part of my day.

I know Fibre would sort it all out but unfortunately not a option as other things come first im afraid. .I will try and get my bits/internal lines tested I think I should still be able to get to them as they are not down to low and see what I come up with.
Then go from there.after I have let you know.

Regs Osh

In reply to a post by kwikbreaks:

The usual reason for high noise levels which lead to disconnects, higher target noise margin, and lower sync rate are the home internal wiring. Although a faulty router or even a faulty line are possibilities you'd be best advised to start checking with your internal phone wiring - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm Eliminating plug in extensions and/or the ring wire on hard wired ones usually brings an improvement.

Is the extension wire you used twisted pair?

Hi

You mean from the master socket to the Modem? If Yes then it is a normal telephone extension cable with the BT Male plug cut off at the master socket end which is then hard wired into the master socket. I would estimate it being 4m or just over.?

I Am sure It is But to make fully sure I will have a look at it tomorrow As just now I cannot get it it at the moment.

regs Osh

Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Jan-14 21:52:47)

Did you connect to Terminal 3 at the master? If so, disconnect it.

Many 'normal' telephone extension cables are not twisted pair. Is the cable round or flat in profile?

Hi Again

Right I am sorry for the miss leading info BUT change all that I said in the last message.
It shows how bad my memory is also.

The set up is as follows.
Hard wired into the master box on terminal 2 and 5 is Cat5 twisted pair.aprox 4 4.5m in length
This terminates at a normal telephone extension box (approx 2" square) again into terminal 2 and 5 . From that box into a pigtailed BT Broardband filter then the supplied modem cable which is about 1.5m in length with BT male plug into the micro fikter and RJ11 into the modem. And that that..

Regs Osh

Is there anything plugged in to the master? Are there any other extension sockets and do they have anything plugged in to them?

Hi Jelv

No more extensions and a ansphone plugged into the master via BT micro filter.
Thats all im afraid

Im going to give the other modem a go as soon as I can set it up. And I will not lose anything. The Thomson 870Wl I am using used to be set up for port forwarding and such things and other exceptions But just during Xmas I could not get onto the net and I thought the modem had finally given up but for some reason it had lost its programming. and had reset to factory settings. I did have a backup but was a old one with not much in it in the way of port forward and so on. Good job though as most of the settings are now not needed as iv sorted out a better way to do what they was set up for.

So I just need to sort out the settings for the other one now. And see if that makes any difference

Osh

Hi Jelv

Like I said only a ANS-Phone plugged into the master via a BT Micro filter Anything else you can think of to try?
Do you think the Cat 5 hardwired into the master than linking to upstairs could be the problem? and loseing sync or bandwidth because of that or simply because of it being aold modem ? Also the modem does not have nwireless so like I say quite old (5 years plus) so is theother im going to try,
Could you suggest a newer or new one that has n and has had a decent review but at a good price, As I dont want to pay to much incase I can sort out costs and move to Fibre.

Do you or anyone know if you can get the home hub to work on Plus net BB only Im sure I saw a blog where you could but cannot find it now, And they are quite cheap In fict I think my mate over the road has a Version 3 he is not using?

Sorry to be a pain

Regs Osh

You can use a home hub on Plusnet.

Unless you've done something stupid like use wires from different pairs the CAT 5 cable is unlikely to be an issue.

One thing you should test is plugging the router straight in to the test socket (which will disable the extension) and without any phone. If that doesn't give better sync or stability you know for certain that it's nothing to do with your wiring, or other equipment.

The wireless on the Plusnet router isn't that good, but it does give good ADSL performance so it might be worth the £5.99 it will cost you to get one from them to help identify the issues (and to keep as a spare). If that gives similar problems in the test socket you would have no worries reporting the fault and getting an engineer out.

Edited by jelv (Sun 12-Jan-14 09:57:32)

Hi
Thanks again for the information.
Right Iv managed to get the linksys WAG345Gv2 back up and running. I just need to do the actual changeover of the Network.

I have a new Plusnet modem somewhere Is it still the same flat white one about
8" x 4" x1.25".
But this linksys used to work fine I had it setup as a slave so my friend could log on from over the road for a while while he had some work done to the house.

So if the linksys keeps online and dont drop the carrier will the default noise margin of 15DB go down on its own Or will I have to ask for it to be put down.

But if it still keeps dropping then raise a ticket?

Thanks again.

Regs Osh

It does go down automatically over time (days or weeks) but if it stays stable for a day or more with no disconnections you can ask for an SNR reset which will put it back to 6db.

If it keeps dropping, yes, raise a fault.

Hi All again.
What is a good Modem Router to use on Plus.net please for good wireless distance but only need 2 hard wired ports for NAS drives.Thankyou

Regs Andy

Edited by deleted (Mon 20-Jan-14 08:03:03)

Hi Jelv and everyone else

Right iv now got the Linksys WAG354G V2 up and running.
I know its also old but thought I would see how it goes. I have put it directly into the test socket in the BT master socket.All that is now plugged in is a BT filter and my Ans phone. There is no extensions at all just 1 hardwired PC and a hardwired freeview PVR. The rest is wireless.

The readings from the Linksys after a hour is this.
_____________________________________________________________
DSL Status
DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: NOT TRAINED
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED
Downstream Rate: 3126 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 439 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 6 db
Upstream Margin: 22 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 51
Upstream Line Attenuation: 29
Downstream Transmit Power: 0
Upstream Transmit Power: 0


PVC Connection
Encapsulation: RFC 2364 PPPoA
Multiplexing: VC
QoS: UBR
PCR Rate: 0
SCR Rate: 0
Autodetect: Disable
VPI: 0
VCI: 38
Enable: Yes
PVC Status: Applied

Regs Oli

Hi
Today I have had a look and the Db values have changed a little Are they going the right way or not please?
__________________________________________________________
DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: NOT TRAINED
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED
Downstream Rate: 3293 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 439 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 10 db
Upstream Margin: 22 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 49
Upstream Line Attenuation: 30
Downstream Transmit Power: 0
Upstream Transmit Power: 0

PVC Connection
Encapsulation: RFC 2364 PPPoA
Multiplexing: VC
QoS: UBR
PCR Rate: 0
SCR Rate: 0
Autodetect: Disable
VPI: 0
VCI: 38
Enable: Yes
PVC Status: Applied

Edited by deleted (Tue 21-Jan-14 14:56:46)

Your Down NM has gone the wrong way, increased, which is indicative of a varying noise on line.

Your Attenuations have shortened. Have you changed the way it is wired?

The trouble with this router is that it does not show the ADSL Mode, which, I think, should appear here:

DSL Modulation Mode: NOT TRAINED

What was wrong with your previous router which did show it?

Are you still getting disconnections?

Hi
Yes I have moved it from a extension to the master socket. and removed the extension.
Also the other modem was really old( I know this is also) but I used to get lot and lots of drop outs with the Thompson 870WL

Also the original down Db was 15. The 6Db on this modem was just after I had put it in and had started it up for the first time.
The other thing is this does not show as much info as the old modem router Or if it does I cannot find it. Which is strange as it has loads of extra configurable bits?
.

Regs

In reply to a post by jelv:

Are you still getting disconnections?

I cannot find where it says how long It has been up for But checked in the logs and it does not say anything in there So would say it has not dropped out so far?

THE DSL Mode not being trained There is quite a few settings that could be? and im not sure which one it should be set to.

Osh

Edited by deleted (Wed 22-Jan-14 00:53:32)

In reply to a post by oshb5ems:

THE DSL Mode not being trained There is quite a few settings that could be?

In the settings section, not the current status, there should be one for (A)DSL Mode/Modulation, which often defaults to 'Auto'. If you can found it you could try G.992.1 (G.DMT), G.992.3 (ADSL2), G.992.5 (ADSL2+) in turn. You previous router was last reporting ADSL2.

Thanks XRaySpeX

I had put a list of what it could be by editing the post but I must not have done it right as it did not come up with all the list I put in But they are the same as you have put. I will try the ADSL2 I did try the ADSL2+ dut it went a bit hit and miss?

Thanks Osh

The settings I can put on the DSL Modulation
are:-
MultiMode
T1.413
G dmt
G lite
ADSL2
ADSL2=

I have tried both the ADSL2 and the + but the modem router hangs up for some reason. It shows up on the WiFi but I cannot get into it plus on the hardwired it just wont let me back onto the unit so I end up having to do a hard reset and put all the info back in. It is running on the multimode settings so will that not be OK?

I dont know what to try now other than get a new/newer modem that has more diagnostics or reports mor info on the line and the DSL settings and info.
Can you suggest any that might fit the bill and be a good price please?

thanks Osh

In reply to a post by oshb5ems:

It shows up on the WiFi but I cannot get into it

Don't understand! How does it show up if you can't get into it? If from either PC you can see the router's web GUI, then you can tell if it is synced, by seeing if it is reporting speeds & NMs, and if it authenticated, by seeing if it 'connected'.

Hi
Sorry When I say Show up I mean it shows up on the list of available WiFi networks to log on to
Hence cannot see the Web GUI of the Linksys, And why I have to do a reset to get back on to it?
I would not of thought just changing the DSL Modulation mode would make the unit inaccessible would you? That said it does as I have tried it three times yesterday afternoon and night. And every time I change the mode I save the options and thats it I can no longer access it. And I have waited over a hout at one attempt and still no luck I used the new and the old along with the default passwords so its not that either..?

Regs Osh

Ah, I see what you mean!

Whether or not router is syncing or even plugged into socket, you should always be able to get to its GUI as long as PC is connected to router.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Ah, I see what you mean!

Whether or not router is syncing or even plugged into socket, you should always be able to get to its GUI as long as PC is connected to router.

Thats what I thought Hence just setting it back to how its been running Will it have any detriment on the operation if it is "Not Trained"?
Anyway I can get on with the main aim of the exercise which was to test and see if It gets the speed up and or drops the Db (line noise ) is that right? And if so which of the Db readings should I see go which way (up/down that is) It could then be determined if F9 need to be asked about having a look and to test or do something with the line.
Because surly in this day and age no matter how far I am from cabinet or exchange I should be getting more than 3Mb download should I not. Well without going FTTC that is. But that said If there is a problem and its in the copper from the cabinet to the house the FTTC Fibre may be as bad If I could afford it

Then I think the next thing is to also get a Modem or Modem /Router that was not used for the network in the cabins of Noahs Ark LOL

Osh

In reply to a post by oshb5ems:

And if so which of the Db readings should I see go which way (up/down that is)

The Downstream NM (Noise Margin). On a good line it will be about 6 dB or even as low as 3 dB. If it is significantly (> +2 dB) above 6 dB then it could mean 1 of 2 things:

• If immediately after a reconnection, then the line is very noisy and the system has had to allow more tolerance for the noise.
• If well after a recon, NM has risen significantly from its recon value then the noise has reduced since recon and it is well worth while rebooting.

Higher NMs result in slower sync speeds.

Hi all

Well One thing is now certain. At the moment here we have howling wind, torrential rain and thunder and lightening like hell and so far the Linksys has not dropped out. But by now if the old Thompson was still in it would have been up n down like a YoYo with disconnects? So We now know the linksys has better protection from the induced ground induced effect that is produced every-time it lightens?.
Which also points to it not being a line problem during bad weather Yes?.

Osh

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

On a good line it will be about 6 dB or even as low as 3 dB. If it is significantly (> +2 dB) above 6 dB then it could mean 1 of 2 things:

At the moment this is the modem stats
DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: NOT TRAINED
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED
Downstream Rate: 3337 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 439 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 7 db
Upstream Margin: 22 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 49
Upstream Line Attenuation: 30
Downstream Transmit Power: 0
Upstream Transmit Power: 0

PVC Connection
Encapsulation: RFC 2364 PPPoA
Multiplexing: VC
QoS: UBR
PCR Rate: 0
SCR Rate: 0
Autodetect: Disable
VPI: 0
VCI: 38
Enable: Yes
PVC Status: Applied


Just tried again And now the D/Margin is 11Db again Boooo

Also Is the VC right at 0-38 and the MTU is set to Auto at 1500 Would you think these settings are OK? Thanks again?

regs Osh

Edited by deleted (Sat 25-Jan-14 15:25:53)

All connection settings are correct.

Well after a week of running and touching nothing . Plus going through the largest storm of ligtening and thunder I can remember here is what the Status looks like now.

DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: NOT TRAINED
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED
Downstream Rate: 3337 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 439 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 5 db
Upstream Margin: 22 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 49
Upstream Line Attenuation: 30
Downstream Transmit Power: 0
Upstream Transmit Power: 0


PVC Connection

Encapsulation: RFC 2364 PPPoA
Multiplexing: VC
QoS: UBR
PCR Rate: 0
SCR Rate: 0
Autodetect: Disable
VPI: 0
VCI: 38
Enable: Yes
PVC Status: Applied

I take it that this is great with the Down stream margin Db? But unfortunately the speeds have not improved ?

Osh

RIGHT

A mishap happened yesterday or so I though In that is to say my daughter pulled my modem plug out When I had tried so hard to keep it up and running LOL

BUT since then My Downstream margin has been between 2 and 3Db?
I take it that this is a good sign? But the other readings are still more or less the same as is shown below. But speed has gone down from 3339Kbps ? Any Ideas?


DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: NOT TRAINED
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED
Downstream Rate: 3110 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 439 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 3 db
Upstream Margin: 22 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 50
Upstream Line Attenuation: 29
Downstream Transmit Power: 0
Upstream Transmit Power: 0

Im still looking for a modem to replace this old one but apart from wanting one with a good WiFi range and Gigabit ports I dont know what else to look for?

Osh

In reply to a post by oshb5ems:

A mishap happened yesterday or so I though In that is to say my daughter pulled my modem plug out

At what time? If at nighttime your sync speed could well go down. Worth rebooting router tomorrow in daylight.

Hi

Ok thanks will do I just had a look and the restart was either 5pm or 6pm as not sure if it was set for daylight saving.
Does it need to be a full power down?

And will do it at about 8.30 in the morning and see what I get then.

regs Osh

In reply to a post by oshb5ems:

not sure if it was set for daylight saving.

You mean your daughter?

Just Power router OFF, wait 10 secs, then ON. Helps clear the counts.

LOL

Wish I could power her off.. But 17 going on 27 And just been accepted to do a degree in Law so has got quite a chip on her shoulder LOL

Osh

Well a Day after restart and we are at 5Db and holding plus speed back up to as it was. So looks like even though Iv managed to get the Db down by two thirds I have nor been able to increase the speed of my D/L's Or is there anything I can do about that?? as shown below

DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: NOT TRAINED
DSL Path Mode: FAST
Downstream Rate: 3368 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 439 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 6 db
Upstream Margin: 22 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 50
Upstream Line Attenuation: 29
Downstream Transmit Power: 0
Upstream Transmit Power: 0

PVC Connection
Encapsulation: RFC 2364 PPPoA
Multiplexing: VC
QoS: UBR
PCR Rate: 0
SCR Rate: 0
Autodetect: Disable
VPI: 0
VCI: 38
Enable: Yes
PVC Status: Applied

Regs Osh

Hi and feel free to send me a PM with your username if you need us to do any checks from our side.