Move BT to PlusNet, BT FON

I'm thinking of moving from BT to PlusNet. This will save me quite a bit, though I will lose a few things I don't care about such as BT Cloud and BT Sport.
However, I do use BT Fon a little bit and would be slightly sad to lose it. A couple of questions ...
? Can I sign up with FON (not BT FON) as I would in a country with no special arrangement with one telco?
? If so, can I use the HomeHub 3 (which is a FON router). (I know lots of people hate the HomeHub3 but it is working fine for us.)

From what i know you can sign up with fon independently of an ISP however you may need to buy a separate fon router as as far as i understand it, the fon functions of the bt H are part of the BT service.
Fon routers cost around £35 from the fon shop https://shop.fon.com/en/products/all
Any usage by fon will come out of any allowance you may/may not have with plusnet

In reply to a post by Rich_T:

Any usage by fon will come out of any allowance you may/may not have with plusnet

All currently offered Plusnet packages are unlimited.

Beware:
Some years ago I bought a Fon router. It was never delivered, and they never responded to my queries. You may be more fortunate.
I believe that traffic through your Fon router will be recorded against your IP address, which could be awkward if somebody does something illegal using it. You could have a hard time proving that it was not you.

Maybe, buy a Fon router, remove its aerial and stick it in a Faraday cage, so it cannot be accessed?

In reply to a post by awontroba:

I believe that traffic through your Fon router will be recorded against your IP address

A quick FAQ check says you're wrong https://support.fon.com/entries/20187816-Can-people-...

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by awontroba:

I believe that traffic through your Fon router will be recorded against your IP address

A quick FAQ check says you're wrong https://support.fon.com/entries/20187816-Can-people-...

That FAQ is correct in terms of internal traffic as FON is separate SSID.

However on the WAN side, traditional FON routers share the same WAN IP - but BT FON use a tunnel so that the individual subscriber isn't associated with the FON users traffic.

Under UK law, where pubs etc have free WiFi but make you register, you can see why I'd go with a BT FON router. Outside the UK free open WiFi is so much easier :-/

In reply to a post by jchamier:

...
However on the WAN side, traditional FON routers share the same WAN IP - but BT FON use a tunnel so that the individual subscriber isn't associated with the FON users traffic.

Under UK law, where pubs etc have free WiFi but make you register, you can see why I'd go with a BT FON router. Outside the UK free open WiFi is so much easier :-/

That is why I liked BT WiFi on my mobile and tablet, but this did not outweigh my dissatisfaction with BT Business Local and BT not selling Annex M to their customers, which is why I have migrated to PlusNet.

I did not realise that pubs etc have to make you register by law. I've been to a few places where the WiFi SID and password are up on a sign. Connect and you are away.

In reply to a post by awontroba:

I did not realise that pubs etc have to make you register by law.

Sorry, they don't have to do this. Its a risk they take on the liability of other people using their internet connection. If someone does something illegal.

When you buy one of our devices, all you have to do is add it to your existing network by plugging it into your router. It will then start splitting your WiFi signal into two. A private one that is just for you (MyPlace), and a public one (�FON_FREE_INTERNET�), which you share with the rest of the Fon network. Both networks are secure and since the public signal is created from the unused portion of your bandwidth, you will still be able to enjoy the same connection speeds as before. Additionally, you will not be held liable for the use of your public network.

I can see that being true when using the ISP offers a FON service to its customers, but find it extremely likely when using one that doesn't. The data passing on the FON service would not be paid for by anyone.

Use of FON hotspot requires people to identify themselves and it is that person i.e. the one doing the downloading that is liable.

The FON system operates as a tunnel, so any torrent IP tracing will see the FON IP not your home IP address, and then down to FON to figure out who was using the WiFi at that time.

If you just run an open Wi-Fi of your own with no tracking of people, then yes that will show as your IP and you'd be liable, or explaining why it was not you to a civil court, or criminal if really bad stuff went on.

Data allowances are a different issue, if you buy a FON from their website then it will come out of the allowance if your ISP has one - simple.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Use of FON hotspot requires people to identify themselves and it is that person i.e. the one doing the downloading that is liable.

The FON system operates as a tunnel, so any torrent IP tracing will see the FON IP not your home IP address, and then down to FON to figure out who was using the WiFi at that time.

If you just run an open Wi-Fi of your own with no tracking of people, then yes that will show as your IP and you'd be liable, or explaining why it was not you to a civil court, or criminal if really bad stuff went on.

Data allowances are a different issue, if you buy a FON from their website then it will come out of the allowance if your ISP has one - simple.

Simple is best!!

I obtained a FON router over 10 years ago when they were giving them out free. I have mine upstairs, connected via Home plugs, to my Sky router downstairs giving me two private WiFi networks for my concrete walled house. The public "Fon" network I can set the bandwidth for and the Fon web interface lets me see who has connected to my public network. Any non-Fon affiliate user of my network has to pay for the WiFi and I receive a percentage of that payment - to date I have received the princely sum of £0.44!

Free WiFi for me throughout the world, via Fon affiliates, and payment for non-affiliate users to use my WiFi- best of both worlds!

Edited by deleted (Tue 12-Aug-14 12:29:44)

I can confirm that( after logging onto my own fon hotspot connected to my router thats connected to plusnet that a separate IP address is used to that of the main plusnet connection.
You also need to use your username/password to log in and that+the fon IP address will tie you or any other user to that internet activity should they try filesharing.
If your speeds not great you can also throttle users connecting to your fon spot down to 512 ( or maybe even 215)

Fon is not open, people logging in need a username/password or some other information that ties the session to them with a separate IP, see the post by Mr Saffron.

In short, its a little box that just sits there, and from that you can then access any other fon hotspot worldwide, as stated above, however the payment system for other people using your fon spot no longer functions in the UK

You can still access BTFON without being with BT. I am with Virgin Media but I run a FON hotspot using a very cheap FON Simpl access point. This gives me access to BTFON hotspots on my Androids and iPad and also lets me access FON hotspots world-wide.
Find more info here

You can get a FON app for you android in Google Play.

Edited by deleted (Wed 13-Aug-14 08:22:37)

All FON traffic is linked to a named person. Any use of your hotspot is easily traceable. Also I have spoken to Virgin Media. They have no issues with me using bandwidth this way.
Unless you live in a busy retail area or very dense residential you won't get many users anyway. This does not affect your access to FON and BTFON spots.

Thanks for all the replies, very helpful.

In reply to a post by roughbeast:

All FON traffic is linked to a named person. Any use of your hotspot is easily traceable.

If FON works in the same way as BT Wifi where the connection is tunnelled to a server which assigns a different IP address from your own external IP address and logs the connection and user details, possibly using BT's servers (they are FON's UK partner), my qualms are much reduced as it will not be me that is fingered for any illegal activity. Does anybody know if this is the case?

Otherwise FON traffic is surely just sent out using your external IP address. NAT makes everything inside of it look the same.
Your ISP will identify you when asked "who was on IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx at <time> on <date>?", even though FON are keeping usage records somewhere, e.g. on the FON device itself or lobbed to a FON server.

This raises questions like:
Where and for how long are the usage records kept?
Who can request access and how?
Would they convince a court that it was not me but somebody using FON?
Would the police check before breaking through my door and impounding my kit?

I find this extract from FON's FAQ Are Foneras secure? too reassuring:
Everyone who logs on to a Fon WiFi signal must be registered with Fon and must accept Fon's usage terms and conditions. We adhere to local and national internet access requirements, so if anyone tries to do anything illegal with your internet connection, we block them.
The blocking part partially unbelievable. Yes, they might honour blocking access to blacklisted sites and not allow traffic to certain ports, but blocking anything illegal means that they have found the solution to a problem which so many are desperately seeking and not finding. Why are they not rich?

FON boxes DO use a tunnel for traffic

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

FON boxes DO use a tunnel for traffic

Excellent! I will shut up about this, and may have another go at buying one.

Don't think the police would ever turn up unless it was a criminal matter. I would expect most illegal downloads are civil matters.

But on Plusnet surely it will still use the Plusnet user's bandwidth? Seeing as all current packages are unlimited allowance, that won't matter for anyone on them, but on other ISPs it might?

BT Retail does detect it and not count it, but I don't think any other ISP does.

So, apart from the rare Fon devices that crop up on eBay, do you (or anybody reading this) know of a way to buy one without being a BT Internet customer?

In reply to a post by Rastus:

So, apart from the rare Fon devices that crop up on eBay, do you (or anybody reading this) know of a way to buy one without being a BT Internet customer?

Err, Fon

Edited by deleted (Thu 14-Aug-14 18:43:59)

In reply to a post by Stevenage_Neil:

Err, Fon

Thanks for the link!

Dumb as I may seem, I'd spent some time following another Fon link given earlier in the thread, and as I couldn't see any other way to join Fon without signing up via its partner in the UK (BT) I was stumped. Clearly (no pun intended) I couldn't see the wood for the trees and gave up too easily!

I'll probably order a Fonera later today, but before I do so I'd like to pose a few questions;

1. Do Fon block any ports or protocols (as one thing I'd probably use my Fon access for when out and about would be VoIP)?

2. How many devices can be used (simultaneously or individually) per Fon registration?

3. Anything else I should be wary of?

4. Although I intend to spend some time Googling, does anybody know of any discounts on the standard Fonera price of £34.00 (incl VAT) plus shipping?

In reply to a post by Rastus:

Thanks for the link!

Not a problem

In reply to a post by Rastus:

1. Do Fon block any ports or protocols (as one thing I'd probably use my Fon access for when out and about would be VoIP)?

Not that I know of, but you will be restricted to the speed the owner of the Fon has set.

In reply to a post by Rastus:

2. How many devices can be used (simultaneously or individually) per Fon registration?

At home you can have 6 "guest" registrations operating simultaneously. I do not know if your own registration can be used simultaneously when roaming - would you want to give out your own registration details to someone else?

In reply to a post by Rastus:

3. Anything else I should be wary of?

Not that I am aware of.

In reply to a post by Stevenage_Neil:

.

In reply to a post by Rastus:

2. How many devices can be used (simultaneously or individually) per Fon registration?

At home you can have 6 "guest" registrations operating simultaneously. I do not know if your own registration can be used simultaneously when roaming - would you want to give out your own registration details to someone else?

Thanks for your reply.

I can think of instances where it might be desirable to use 2 (or more) devices simultaneously, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker if that's not possible. I was mainly wondering if the user account was locked to a single 'registered' device.

It's probably not usually a good idea to give registration details to others, but now you mention it, it might open the possibility of temporarily 'lending' use of Fon to a close relative (if, as mentioned above, use of the account is not locked to a particular device).

In reply to a post by Rastus:

I was mainly wondering if the user account was locked to a single 'registered' device.

No!!

Excellent, thanks.

I just need to have a look around later to see if I can find any discount codes etc

Thanks for your helpful comments earlier, I've now bitten the bullet and ordered a Fonera.

I couldn't find any working discounts/promo offers so paid the price advertised on the page reached by your link of £34.00, which, although it said plus carriage, actually included it at the checkout.

Glad to be of help.........

@Rastus: Good luck with the Fonera. Please post back when it is up and running to let us all know how it went. Thanks

Daft question:
How do FON make money? No monthly fees, and there can't be much profit in a 34 Euro wifi router.

http://gigaom.com/2011/03/30/the-difference-a-device...

Weird, the Google Store says I can't install the FON app in this country and it seems I have to use the BT WiFI with FON app. Not sure if that will allow me to access FON hotspots in other countries.

I've never found the BTWifI-FON app automatically logs me in to hotspots and I have to manually log in first and then authenticate with the app. Mind you, I have quite a strong hotspot near my house, so it would probably keep connecting to that instead of my own router if it worked.

I never seem to be able to access FON hotspots away from home though, no matter how strong the signal, I just can't seem to authenticate and have to resort to using 3G. It was one of the reasons I joined BT, as I figured it would save me having to spend money on 3G data access but as it's never worked for me, it will make it easier to leave BT.

In reply to a post by doveman:

Weird, the Google Store says I can't install the FON app in this country...........

...........because you are not a registered Fon "owner" and to use the app you have to sign in with your Fon credentials.(Shouldn't stop you downloading and installing the app though.)

I'm a registered BTWiFi with FON owner.

Anyway, as you say there's no way that Google Store can know whether I am or not, so that can't be why it won't let me download and install. The message definitely said something about it not being available "in your country", so maybe it is blocked in the UK and people are expected to use the BT app?

You can download it here http://www.digitalham.co.uk/fon-free-wifi-apk/

In reply to a post by doveman:

Weird, the Google Store says I can't install the FON app in this country and it seems I have to use the BT WiFI with FON app. Not sure if that will allow me to access FON hotspots in other countries.

I had the same experience. Googling found others in different countries were also complaining that they couldn't download it either.

I tried the BT WiFi app which doesn't want to accept my FON login credentials.

ATM, I've 'lent' my FON membership to a relative who's shortly arriving in the UK from Australia. When I forewarned him about not being able to download the FON app in the UK, he tried whilst still in Australia and successfully download it from the PlayStore (Version 3.2 if I recall correctly). Have yet to find out whether its use will be somehow blocked in the UK.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

You can download it here http://www.digitalham.co.uk/fon-free-wifi-apk/

I downloaded the app from that site a few days ago, but unfortunately it's an older version which doesn't seem to want to play ball.

In reply to a post by Stevenage_Neil:

In reply to a post by doveman:

Weird, the Google Store says I can't install the FON app in this country...........

...........because you are not a registered Fon "owner" and to use the app you have to sign in with your Fon credentials.(Shouldn't stop you downloading and installing the app though.)

I'm a registered FON 'owner' and I haven't been able to download the app. I'd be interested to find out how would that work.

I guess one thing I could try would be to connect via the FON, then go to the PlayStore and see if that makes a difference ...

There's 2 versions on that page, actually.

Just a thought......... have you mentioned to BT about moving i.e. asked for a migration code. I was seriously thinking about moving to another ISP. The offer I got from BT (been with them 3 years) has seriously made me have 2nd thoughts. Even though it means having another 12 month contract with BT (not keen on long contracts at all), the cost to me is not only substantially reduced but I get much much more for the money. It certainly has made me pause for a rethink and I shall probably take up BT's offer. Shame they can't reduce the line rental in the same way ............

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

There's 2 versions on that page, actually.

Thanks for pointing that out!

I'd seen the second version but had assumed (wrongly it now seems) that due to the gist of the article that it was for later Android OSs, and as my Galaxy Tab is still on 2.2.2 (another story).

I just downloaded that version and it installed OK and seems to be working. I'll test its ability to automatically log me in to FON hotspots at some point, but not today as I am quite busy with other more boring stuff.

Thanks again!

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

You can download it here http://www.digitalham.co.uk/fon-free-wifi-apk/

Thanks. I installed the older, recommended, one and put in my BT Wifi-with-FON login details. Was out yesterday and found a BT Wifi hotspot but as usual, whilst I could connect, I couldn't login with either the BT app or the FON one. Either every apparent hotspot I find when out is in fact a fake one, in which case the availability of real hotspots seems rather sparse, or there's something wrong with the app.

At home, if I connect to my own router's BT FON hotspot, then either the FON or BT Wifi app (I tested with only one or the other running) will log me in, although the FON app's scan and auto-connect to FON hotspot feature doesn't seem to work, so maybe it just doesn't recognise BT FON hotspots as FON hotspots. If I connect to the only other nearby BT Wifi-with-FON hotspot, then neither app can authorise, so again either that's a fake hotspot or it confirms that I can only connect to my own router's hotspot.

In reply to a post by doveman:

If I connect to the only other nearby BT Wifi-with-FON hotspot, then neither app can authorise, so again either that's a fake hotspot or it confirms that I can only connect to my own router's hotspot.

Given the BT routers come pre-configured to advertise they are FON and BT-WiFi hotspots, but crucially don't work until the owner activates - you most likely have found the flaw in BT's plan!

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by doveman:

If I connect to the only other nearby BT Wifi-with-FON hotspot, then neither app can authorise, so again either that's a fake hotspot or it confirms that I can only connect to my own router's hotspot.

Given the BT routers come pre-configured to advertise they are FON and BT-WiFi hotspots, but crucially don't work until the owner activates - you most likely have found the flaw in BT's plan!

Indeed. Well that sucks but I'm moving to Sky anyway, as they're giving me free line rental and broadband for 12 months! The have their own network, although I can't say I've ever seen a Sky hotspot. Guess I'll just have to use 3G.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by doveman:

If I connect to the only other nearby BT Wifi-with-FON hotspot, then neither app can authorise, so again either that's a fake hotspot or it confirms that I can only connect to my own router's hotspot.

Given the BT routers come pre-configured to advertise they are FON and BT-WiFi hotspots, but crucially don't work until the owner activates - you most likely have found the flaw in BT's plan!

So does that mean that many of the hotspots shown on the FON and BT WIFI maps don't actually exist - i.e. the maps include many non-functional hotspots due to owners not activating?

If so, the word rip-off springs to mind.

In reply to a post by Rastus:

So does that mean that many of the hotspots shown on the FON and BT WIFI maps don't actually exist - i.e. the maps include many non-functional hotspots due to owners not activating?
If so, the word rip-off springs to mind.

I personally assumed so, as we have four "BT Wifi" points visible from work that our clients try to use (we don't have WiFi) and they're coming from nearby houses. None of them work, but they all show a page saying "this BT WiFi point has not been activated by its owner".

So yes, its probably a rip-off idea. Pubs/Shops with BT, Cloud or O2 WiFi are much better.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Given the BT routers come pre-configured to advertise they are FON and BT-WiFi hotspots, but crucially don't work until the owner activates

How time flies

In reference to www.bt.com/wifi/secure/whatsBTFon.do:

From the middle of March '09 new BT Total Broadband and BT Infinity customers won't need to do anything as they will be automatically opted in to the BT FON community.

I seem to recall having to explicitly opt in to making my BT Business Hub a hotspot
Perhaps I was just too hasty.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Given the BT routers come pre-configured to advertise they are FON and BT-WiFi hotspots, but crucially don't work until the owner activates

How time flies

In reference to www.bt.com/wifi/secure/whatsBTFon.do:

From the middle of March '09 new BT Total Broadband and BT Infinity customers won't need to do anything as they will be automatically opted in to the BT FON community.

My BT infinity 2012 to 2014 used the HomeHub 3 - and for the first two weeks I had the HH3 in use, and I never had the BT Wifi / BT FON enabled automatically. I then used a decent router after that.

I recently installed a new HH5 which was showing "13. BT Wi-fi: No". That changed to Yes after about 2-3 weeks. I think the ones you have seen showing it as unactivated date from before 2009.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I recently installed a new HH5 which was showing "13. BT Wi-fi: No". That changed to Yes after about 2-3 weeks. I think the ones you have seen showing it as unactivated date from before 2009.

Interesting. I still have my HH3, might have to take it to the office and plug it into our BT Business line and see if it becomes a BT WiFi point

Even if it's default opt-in, people might still be opting-out if they're worried about sharing their broadband with strangers.

I can't say I've seen a webpage saying that the hotspot has not been activated but they don't work nonetheless, so it's not much use and I'll have to use 3G instead.

That's 44p more that I've ever got from mine.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

You can download it here http://www.digitalham.co.uk/fon-free-wifi-apk/

After seeing a post (by TORPC) on Plusnet forum at http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,132530 ,
I went to the Google Play store on this PC and searched for FON, and the FON app came up first in the search.
You can also go there from the Google Play link on the fon home page.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.oa...

I then choose Install and installed it from my PC onto my phone ~ no need to download apk file or fiddle with sideloading. As I'm not (yet) a FON member so I haven't been able to verify it all works.

Searching on Play Store on the phone did not show it, and following the link from the FON site brought it up but it wouldn't install in UK.

"This app is incompatible with all of your devices."

So if I has searched for it on my phone, it would not have shown.

Similar comment in the parallel topic on Plusnet forum http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1325... with someone getting "This item cannot be installed in your devices country"

His suggestion is that I got one of the Plusnet addresses that some sites think is a US address. That could be, though everything I have tried shows me as UK, and it worked for my PC and not for the phone using the same Plusnet connection. Maybe it was locating the mislocating PC from the IP address but using the GPS correctly to locate the phone? All most curious to me.

I have been using FON for years now. I can access all BT FON hotspots and other FON hotspots nationally on my mobile devices. There is a phone app also. There are 13 million FON hotspots world-wide too. There are no issues with my ISP. Anyone using my connection is identified by their log on details.

Incidentally, because I live in a residential street, only two members of the public have used my connection in almost 10 years. A basic router, not meant to replace your main router or ISP modem, can be bought for 39,00 � FON STORE

I'm sure the error I got has nothing to do with IP addresses, it probably just means it doesn't work on Android 4.4.

it probably just means it doesn't work on Android 4.4.

Working for me on android 4.4.4 as far as I can tell: that is app installed and getting as far as login screen.

Now happily on Plusnet and FON.

I have just signed up with FON and registered a hotspot. I took a walk down the road and can connect to neighbours' BT-WiFi with FON hotspots.

~~~~~

I did not get a Fonera router, I converted an old Linksys WRT54G that had been sitting in the cupboard.

I found a page about converting old wireless routers to FON: http://www.wi-fiplanet.co...rials/article.php/3743591
His firmware links did not work, but I found links that did work for my old Linksys: http://rene.margar.fr/201...-6-7-pour-linksys-wrt54g/
I then followed http://www.wi-fiplanet.co...rials/article.php/3743041 for setting up the hotspot.

This is not as good as a FON router would be as it does not give me an additional private extended wireless network.

Follow the instructions very carefully. Doing things in the wrong order mean you can't get to the FON registration page to register your router and give yourself the higher status that allows free FON usage.
I had to factory reset the router a couple of times after installing the new firmware to set it back into a 'register new router' frame of mind because I had done things a little wrong.

Be very careful to change the router password. Otherwise anyone can connect, guess the router address from 'ipconfig' gateway, and log in to the router.

I tried to do this a few years back, but I could not get registered.
I have tried the links on the post, but none of them seem to work. I'd have another go if I could find out how it has been done.
Thanks in advance

Alex

I've found that the links have been abbreviated, and found the correct links by searching on the sites. Here are the full links:
http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/374...
http://rene.margar.fr/2011/02/firmware-fonbasic-0-6-...
http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/374...
Now to find that old router again! I spent ages previously failing to get registered.

Well done for sorting the links out

I bought myself another FON Simpl. This one arrrived.
It was quite easy to get going, once you realise that you configure it by connecting to it with WiFi, not from your own network.
My FON hotspot usually works for me, both on my private and public connections.
The big downside is that I can only connect to (old) BT WiFi hotspots with "FON" in their name, and walking around my small home town found very few of them. Other BT Wifi hotspots do not seem to allow FON logins to be used. Yet FON's hotspot maps show so many hotspots.
My hopes of being able to use FON hotspots rather than trying to use 3G, or buying time on hotspots, have been dashed.
I feel ripped off.

If I remember correctly the BT login page has a separate, albeit small, login box for Fon Users.

1) Do you get to the BT Wifi landing page, and then it refuses your login; or
2) do you not even get as far as the landing page, or
3) are you using the FON app on a smartphone to do the login?

When I tried the FON app it didn't seem the behave properly at all; just forced me into a disconnect/reconnect loop with the adaptor without seeming to try to login at all.
I haven't been trying to use it seriously (mainly just tests to my own connection) yet; I did manage to login to a couple of BT hotspots nearly but I can't remember what sort of SSID they had. I'll try again in a few days when I get some time.

I'm still having issues with my (converted linksys) hotspot showing as offline on the FON website a lot of the time even when it isn't; that may be a firmware level issue due to change in details of the FON system.

I should have added that in the 10+yrs I have been using Fon I have only once had to contact their Technical support, via E-Mail. It was brilliant! Fast and accurate.