Plusnet "fixed" deals - by way of warning

Kinda "heads up" really.

About this time last year I got a decent 2 year fixed phone and broadband deal with Plusnet (thanks to a posting or two on here ).
When last year's Autumn price rise arrived I ignored the email as I knew I had a 2 year fix - wrong. At first Plusnet denied that there was any such thing. After a month or so of support tickets (couldn't really get the phone folk to listen to what I was saying mostly) I got a refund on what they had over charged me and confirmation that I had a further 21 months of my deal to run.

So I thought yesterday's call to Plusnet was just a formality to confirm that I needn't worry about the price rise email this year - wrong. So far the CSC guy I phoned didn't listen, ignored the info on support tickets I pointed to and a further CSC person has answered my support ticket with the boiler plate reply that I have to pay the increase obviously not having actual read the tickets from last year.

I'll update with the outcome but don't assume because you have a "deal" with Plusnet that they will actually see it the same way as you do...!
Cheers
Herby

Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Jul-16 11:27:32)

Forget the CS team and have a chat to the Customer Options Team if you are concerned about the 24 month contract which started last year not being honoured.

Sometimes with these deals, what is actually agreed is a fixed discount for the period, rather than a fixed price, so it's worth checking the small print.

Thanks - appreciated. I'll let the support tickets run for a day or two but I'll do that in the end. Both the CSC people have simply been stone walling and refusing to look/listen.

I guess on another level it saddens me - Plusnet used to be pretty good at service and I do get ok speeds too. Ho hum
Cheers

Agreed. What they agreed on the deal tho was a "fixed price" instead of me going to SSE on the deal they had then. Equally the refunded me the extra I'd paid on the line rental after last Autumn's increase and there is a support ticket quoting the figures (when someone actually gets around to reading them) so hopefully it will be clear.
Cheers

Doesn't really matter what deal you made, your stil subject to the general terms and conditions which states something along the lines of we may or are allowed to increase the price of your package...yadda yadda yadda...

As mentioned above, deals are based on a fixed discount and not a fixed price.

So your choice is renegotiate a deal with Plusnet which they might not do or leave.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

As mentioned above, deals are based on a fixed discount and not a fixed price.

Not necessarily, if the deal was for a fixed discount it was for a fixed discount, if it was for a fixed price it was for a fixed price. The OP seems adamant it was the latter.

Yep - it was a fixed price. Though they ignored that almost immediately when the price went up. Then refunded me the extra quid a month I'd paid eventually and confirmed the time to run at that rate.

However I take the point (from the previous poster) that it is all subject to T&C somewhere including whatever weasel words they've decided to include. In a sense that is the sadness - having in all good faith agreed something it bugs me to have to fight to get them to admit it a second time. I'll do the COT approach though if I get another boiler plate reply.

I did get a text survey from them.
Q1 - however satisfied are you - 1 = disatisfied, 5 = very satisfied - I responded with "1"
Q2 - however satisfied are you with CSC person - 1 = disatisfied, 5 = very satisfied - I responded with "1"
Q3 - in your own words why - I told them why
Final response - "thanks for taking part and helping us improve our customer service"....

I struggle to believe they truly meant fixed price... I am sure the CS advisor just mis-represented the truth, possibly without realising.

As with all of these price rises, they allow you to migrate ISP without a penalty. I appreciate it is frustrating for you and hopefully PlusNet offer the discount again.

For future, always assume you will be affected by future price increases, as you almost certainly will be. These things are always across the board, with the only exception if you have pre-paid something such as the line rental for 12 months.

The deal was actually done with COT people on the basis that I would be leaving for SSE's fixed 18 month deal (at that time) otherwise. In practice there are support tickets from Autumn 2015 that confirm the deal and they refunded last Autumn's price rise as a result of the tickets.

That said generally I agree with you and in future I'll never believe a fixed deal though - lessons get learnt.

I took a long term deal when I switched to fibre at start of year and it was a fixed discount for the period.

Fortunately unlimited fibre and LRS won't increase price on 1st September

How did you get on?

Interesting thread.

My 24 month retentions deal (£10 for 80/20 fibre) comes to an end in a few months and I'll definitely clarify if it's a fixed price or fixed discount when the time comes to renew.

Nothing has gone up for me, though I've let LRS lapse so that my broadband and line rental are back in sync (was out due to the initial 18 month contract for fibre)

In reply to a post by psprog:

I've let LRS lapse so that my broadband and line rental are back in sync

Having line rental at 12 mths and BB contracts at 18 mths is a device to keep you tied or at least to hit you for 6mths full rate for one or the other. I wonder how it will work in another month or so when -- as I understand it -- ISPs will have to quote a monthly rate to include both BB and LR?

In reply to a post by Malwaremike:

I wonder how it will work in another month or so when -- as I understand it -- ISPs will have to quote a monthly rate to include both BB and LR?

I hadn't considered the impact of the change on how LRS deals will be advertised, could be interesting.

I predict six months of providers trying various things and confusion until a few test cases and the new boundaries of what is and is not allowed are learnt.

So many ways I can foresee providers changing things, three of which are already underway, i.e. less options rolled into monthly charge (i.e. migration is paid for now, and rising delivery charges for hardware), plus many more providers have dropped any inclusive calls

As I've said in another context, another Ofcom/ASA cockup.

The Law of unintended consequences.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 30-Aug-16 10:38:47)

Possibly the end of deals where you don't have to have phone service (i.e. line rental) with the ISP, e.g. phone provided by BT, Internet by PlusNet.

It's a mess.

Makes things less flexible for the users. Bad enough the big boys excluding Plusnet forcing it, and not having to take Plusnet rental at the moment is a big plus point.

For the smaller niche ISPs it reduces the options they can offer, for the same reason. Making them less competitive.

It also causes confusion between phone with no calls included, and naked DSL such as AAISP and one or two others now offer. Possibly makes Openreach SOGEA FTTC redundant as well. (Has it even been introduced yet?)

BT offer their main products e.g. Unlimited Infinity 2 with line rental elsewhere at a premium, same as Plusnet.

As if!

I have seen that before - I think BatBoy gave the product name and a link earlier this year.

There is no way the typical non-business punter is going to find out about it, never mind find it. Is it advertised?

It's not a special product, the names are the same, Infinity Option 2 and so on. They are openly listed in the BT Consumer Price Guide, so easily available and found on the BT website. Not sure why you think non-business punters have more difficulty finding things?

A link to such a main website page would be a useful aid, plus one to the Consumer Price Guide. I googled it, and went to this one:-

[PDF]BT Consumer Price Guide

www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/lib/pdf/BT_PhoneTariff_Residential.pdf

Click on an option below. Telephone. Broadband. BT TV. BT Mobile. BT Sport. Packaged Services. Glossary & Useful Numbers. BT Consumer Price Guide. have never seen anywhere (in recent years) where BT Broadband is offered without compulsory BT line rental

It didn't help, and possibly already has line rental bundled in, and with no offers, unlike the main website which still shows line rental as additional. Such as:-

£10 � /mth

12-month contract
£18.99/mth line rental
+ £49 Infinity activation fee

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

A link to such a main website page would be a useful aid, plus one to the Consumer Price Guide.

Just try the main broadband page, link under Important Information: http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/broad...

You've already found it. If it doesn't help you, then maybe ask a business friend who can explain it

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

A link to such a main website page would be a useful aid, plus one to the Consumer Price Guide.

Just try the main broadband page, link under Important Information: http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/broad...

You've already found it. If it doesn't help you, then maybe ask a business friend who can explain it

Can you explain why those prices show

£18.99/mth line rental

?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Can you explain why those prices show

£18.99/mth line rental

?

Because you're looking at the wrong products, try looking where I said they are.

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Can you explain why those prices show

£18.99/mth line rental

?

Because you're looking at the wrong products, try looking where I said they are.

You mean this link? http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/lib/p...

Exactly. I think she is referring to the link you just gave, which is the one I gave first in my reply requesting links.

The page found by clicking "Broadband" from it is worse than useless.

Who knows? The poster doesn't seem to know themselves.

You seem to be in a very snooty and unhelpful mood today.

Please link directly to where the non-bundled Infinity products are to be found. The link both BatBoy and I have found appears to be to "line inclusive", i.e. bundled, pricing as per the ASA new requirements, and doesn't include any initial deals.

Where are your claimed prices for BT Broadband where the line rental can be elsewhere?

I believe it is possible to obtain BT Broadband without BT line rental, but AIUI only by phoning and getting through to someone who knows about it. Which may not be easy.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I believe it is possible to obtain BT Broadband without BT line rental, but AIUI only by phoning and getting through to someone who knows about it. Which may not be easy.

Page 58 of http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/lib/p... ?

It doesn't seem to include or require line rental, unless I'm missing something.

I've already requested the poster confirm that is the link they are referring to.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

Page 58 of http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/lib/p... ?

What strikes me about that page is Infinity Option 4 is cheaper than Infinity Option 3.

Not having checked the various options, perhaps there's a lower download cap on
Option 4 than there is on Option 3?

Correction: Just had another look and both options say 'Unlimited' so that can't be the reason.

Edited by Rastus (Tue 30-Aug-16 14:13:35)

In reply to a post by Rastus:

Not having checked the various options, perhaps there's a lower download cap on
Option 4 than there is on Option 3?

Both say "unlimited"

The standard price of the BT Home Hub is up to £129.00 (depending on model supplied).

What's so special about the Home Hub?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Rastus:

Not having checked the various options, perhaps there's a lower download cap on
Option 4 than there is on Option 3?

Both say "unlimited"

You beat me to it, posting whilst I was correcting my post!

LOL, that looks it might be the one. (I didn't even realise there were page numbers until I accidentally brought the cursor down inside the document and the PDF control showed it).

Page 57 is of course where the menu link goes to. I see no mention of landline there either. The only differences I see between pages 57 and 58 are that page 58 is 18-month terms and more expensive. Which if it doesn't include line rental is utterly ridiculous and doesn't sensibly qualify as allowing other-CP line provision.

It's a pity vimto-girl cannot be more helpful today instead of implying I am stupid. Plus, as I've just said, how do we know it is line rental free?

I don't propose to plough through 128 pages just because she refuses to show where it is stated. I shall continue to post that BT Line rental is compulsory (so far as the vast majority of the population is concerned) until she shows where it is made clear that it isn't. If page 58 in in fact it, then in the mass market it isn't an option.

In reply to a post by Rastus:

What strikes me about that page is Infinity Option 4 is cheaper than Infinity Option 3.

Maybe Option 3/4 is FTTP. The pdf document is pretty useless, not enough detail.

Edited by Oliver341 (Tue 30-Aug-16 14:17:37)

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

Maybe Option 3/4 is FTTP. The pdf document is pretty useless, not enough detail.

I may be wrong but I thought both Options 3 and 4 were only available on FTTP?

Edited by Rastus (Tue 30-Aug-16 14:20:29)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The only differences I see between pages 57 and 58 are that page 58 is 18-month terms and more expensive. Which if it doesn't include line rental is utterly ridiculous and doesn't sensibly qualify as allowing other-CP line provision.

57 - ADSL
58 - Fibre

I linked fibre because that's what most people seem to be on now.

In reply to a post by Rastus:

I may be wrong but I thought both Options 3 and 4 were only available on FTTP?

Could be. The document expects us just to know that!

In reply to a post by wingco1:

The standard price of the BT Home Hub is up to £129.00 (depending on model supplied).

What's so special about the Home Hub?

Dunno but according to the test document, it was only tested on a Mac not Windows

Yes, they are FTTP.

Also nothing on pages 57 or 58 can be reconciled to the pricing on this page even allowing for looking at the crossed-out standard prices with or without line rental, rather than the short-term deal price.

A load of rubbish.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Also nothing on pages 57 or 58 can be reconciled to the pricing on this page even allowing for looking at the crossed-out standard prices with or without line rental, rather than the short-term deal price.

I believe the prices in the pdf are inflated due to not taking line rental and are not advertised on the usual sales splash page you linked.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The only differences I see between pages 57 and 58 are that page 58 is 18-month terms and more expensive. Which if it doesn't include line rental is utterly ridiculous and doesn't sensibly qualify as allowing other-CP line provision.

57 - ADSL
58 - Fibre

I linked fibre because that's what most people seem to be on now.

LOL.

I missed that.

Even less correlation between that and the main sales page then. All 18-month contracts. "Standard Terms" indeed.

On page 57 - BT Total Broadband Option 3 over Fibre.

Nice try, but no cigar

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Which if it doesn't include line rental is utterly ridiculous and doesn't sensibly qualify as allowing other-CP line provision.

Quite apart from the fact that for many years they have only ever advertised "Special offers". Just the offers change periodically.

They have to be regarded as the actual pricing, and that price guide as purely a legal technicality. Which wouldn't stand up for a minute if posted in a shop as "Sale price xxxxx, Normal price yyyy".

They even show the "Normal price" on the main sales page.

That's hilarious. Not only that, but look at the price and cessation fees compared to everything else on that page.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

They even show the "Normal price" on the main sales page.

I've always found BT's price advertising to be "curious" at best.

Unlimited Infinity 1: Above the £10 per month offer price, £20 per month is crossed out which in any normal convention means £20 per month is the normal price.

No, dig to the well-hidden offer terms and £26 is the normal price.

NOTE: Before everyone bites each others heads off, the BT site is known to do A/B profiling so some people may see a different page to others based on what they think you may buy, or in some cases a random number

Point taken, but the Price Guide is just garbage Andrew, and no way can it be profiled. It is in effect a legal document, not a sales pitch, and all Infinitys are showing 18 month contract.

How long since they announced they had ditched that? And the prices are ludicrous.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It's a pity vimto-girl cannot be more helpful today instead of implying I am stupid.

Calm down, relax the melodrama, I'm here to rescue you now

In the price guide, the broadband-only products are under the 'Broadband' section and the broadband packages are under the 'Packaged Services' section e.g. p117. There should be no discrepancy with the advertised products on the main webpage which are packages, save for the offers and promotions which do come and go.

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

In the price guide, the broadband-only products are under the 'Broadband' section

How do you order those?

Heh, true. In case you hadn't cracked it, the £20 is the new customer price, the £26 is the price from month 13. Ironically, I think the confusion results from an attempt not to mislead by exaggerating the offer.

The ASA say the new approach is going to require upfront and clearer prices when discount periods end, so hopefully things like this are cleaned up. But some people aren't happy with the changes apparently.

Thank you for the information most people I believe would have supplied at the first asking. Not the singularly unhelpful:-

It's not a special product, the names are the same, Infinity Option 2 and so on. They are openly listed in the BT Consumer Price Guide, so easily available and found on the BT website. Not sure why you think non-business punters have more difficulty finding things?

Closely followed by the downright rude:-

You've already found it. If it doesn't help you, then maybe ask a business friend who can explain it

Nor am I impressed by:-

Calm down, relax the melodrama, I'm here to rescue you now

You often show yourself to be quite knowledgeable, but being friendly and helpful as most people are on this forum is far from a strength of yours. Do you feel good trying to prove you are the superior being you apparently believe you are?

Plus, as BatBoy asks.

I also suggest that as far as giving relevant information to prospective customers is concerned, a decent lawyer could drive a coach and horses through that structure. That's if Ombudsman Services hadn't already done so.

It might look legally watertight but to most people I consider finding that at the end of 12 months on, for example £20 reduced to £10, the price didn't go up to £20 but to £26 would be a complete surprise and shock.

It is sufficiently well hidden to be invalidated given the ASA stance on clear information.

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

Heh, true. In case you hadn't cracked it, the £20 is the new customer price, the £26 is the price from month 13. Ironically, I think the confusion results from an attempt not to mislead by exaggerating the offer.

I see what you're saying, however the "new customer price" is, to me, a fluctuating price dependant on the deal at the time. The fact that at the moment the "new customer price" is £10 instead of £20 just demonstrates that, so viewing it as some kind of fixed price worthy of sitting there with a line through it is wrong.

I tend to view it much less charitably than yourself, to me it is simply misleading customers on the post-offer price. The crossed out price should be £26, in my opinion.

I think, but would need to check, that there are strict rules on advertising sale prices (which the offer effectively is) - and the price has to have been actually offered within such and such a time for such and such a length and be for the same thing. The 'thing' is the price for the minimum term, 1st 12 months, so comparing it to something else would fall foul.

I hope under the new 'rules' they'd have to put price 1st 12 months = X, after month 12 = Y. The offer would then strike out the X only and have to leave Y as it is.

It may represent the full non-offer position, so a little like RRP in shops hardly ever is it seen, but there will be a list with it on somewhere

In our listings we try and show the month 13 price somewhere, a freedom of not being an Ofcom accredited price listing site in that we can do what we believe is right.

Yep - meant to come back on this but was also waiting for notification of the next direct debit. COT insisted several times that I would pay the extra. Billing appeared to say I wouldn't. I am being billed with the extra and frankly for a quid a month I can't be bothered with the "15 minutes" wait (!!!) on the phone. I did try webchat a time or two but being told that you are 50th in the queue for "instant" access was a bit disheartening...

Obviously OpenReach issues in this are. 3 engineers in 8 days (1 to sort our line out, 1 who then screwed up the line and 1 who had no discernible effect) suggests the cable locally is getting dodgy. Equally having had about 16 meg download consistently I realised things had slowed and I was getting sub 12 consistently. Eventually decided to risk the "15 minutes" wait again (only 30 that time) and my speed is back up to over 15. An extra quid and a reduction of 25% in the speed seemed worth the call.

Cheers