Contract end date

Having been told my contract expires 6 Dec 2016 and getting no response to requests to renew from Plusnet I took an offer from Sky.

Plusnet tell me I am still liable for a charge for the remaining months, despite Sky not starting till 6 Dec 2016! Does anyone know how the charge worked out, if it is not based on the contract expiry date?

Is there anyway to get a new ISP to start when a current contract ends and avoid being charged?

How did Plusnet inform you? Was it some sort of standard email?

I suggest you ask Plusnet what the charge will be. My understanding from a phone call to Plusnet is that it would not be very much in the circumstance you describe.

The (email?) notification of charges should detail what they are, in full detail. Not just a total.

Look at your account summary at Plusnet Portal Account Summary . This will show any charges on your contract payable if you left today (Mine says £0.00 as I'm out of contract). It decreases as your contract goes on reaching zero when you are out of contract.
As you are moving to Sky, you will be charged as cessation fee of £30.00 as you are being disconnected from the BTW network and moved to the Sky LLU. This fee is shown on the summary too.

In reply to a post by georgelnx:

As you are moving to Sky, you will be charged as cessation fee of £30.00 as you are being disconnected from the BTW network and moved to the Sky LLU. This fee is shown on the summary too.

A cease charge should not be payable as long as a recognised migration process is used. There is a charge to the gaining provider for a migration, but not to the losing one.

Agreed, except as he is still in contract it will be showing on his account. I don't think they clear it till after the end.

As you say, it should not be payable.

The same may apply to his "free router"? If he took one.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 24-Nov-16 18:47:36)

Yes: email.

I did try and reply but it bounced.

Webchat is never available, phone takes ages to be answered, if you don't just get cut off and ticket system is a joke.

I agree: they should, but it didn't

Useful info: thanks.

I think I'll cancel Sky, if I am going to be charged £30. No mention of this in their sign up.

Thanks.

I certainly don't see Sky as a cable provider and I have been promised the same phone number, so just a simple swap rather than cease and provide.

No router as it wasn't free.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

A cease charge should not be payable as long as a recognised migration process is used. There is a charge to the gaining provider for a migration, but not to the losing one.

BT Wholesale do charge a cease fee if moving to an LLU network. That could be where the cease fee is from.

Matt

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

As you say, it should not be payable.

And yet Plusnet still insist BT Wholesale are billing Plusnet for migrations to LLU: https://portal.plus.net/help/my-account/charges-for-...

In reference to portal.plus.net/help/my-account/charges-for-removing-broadband/:

You'd only need to pay the charge if the broadband service is being taken off your phone line. Typical reasons for this are:

you move to a provider who uses their own equipment in your exchange (often called Local Loop Unbundling)

Plusnet have clarified in their community forums that this would only ever happen if the LLU provider processes it as a cease & re-provide which almost never happens, and yet Plusnet continue to publish false information such as the above.

It's shady practice and Ofcom should be looking at it, because it seems to me Plusnet are spreading false information to discourage people from moving to LLU providers.

In reply to a post by uno:

BT Wholesale do charge a cease fee if moving to an LLU network. That could be where the cease fee is from.

Can you expand on this post made by Plusnet staff? https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Account-Billing/Plu...

Am I right in thinking this "W or P" relates to a cease & re-provide?

I don't think your average user would know if an ISP used LLU or not.

In reply to a post by uno:

BT Wholesale do charge a cease fee if moving to an LLU network. That could be where the cease fee is from.

I found a better post: https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Account-Billing/Ces...

Cease (M) -
Narrowband Transfer
Cease of PSTN & DSL service because line has been converted to MPF
Narrowband Transfer

And the staff member states that Cease (M) carries no wholesale charge for Plusnet. Which directly contradicts https://portal.plus.net/help/my-account/charges-for-... as I said before.

W is usually a cease/re-provide but M and L are seen when it is moved to LLU, i.e broadband only.

Matt

It appears to me it is down to how your new ISP does things and therefore should be down to them, if they do it wrong.

In reply to a post by uno:

W is usually a cease/re-provide but M and L are seen when it is moved to LLU, i.e broadband only.

And are not chargeable to the losing provider as I keep saying.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

And are not chargeable to the losing provider as I keep saying.

Based on what?

These are BT Wholesale charges for leaving their service so they are chargeable if they are levied by them to the provider.

MAtt

In reply to a post by uno:

Based on what?

Based on the post by HarryB @ Plusnet who says Cease (M) and Cease (L) are not chargeable to the losing provider. To the best of my knowledge, the the likes of Sky and TalkTalk use Cease (M) to process inbound migrations which Plusnet should not be charged for on a wholesale level.

I cannot comment on them but BT Wholesale do charge for moves to Sky and Talk Talk as they are considered ceases by BT Wholesale *edit (because the service is ceasing on the BT Wholesale network).

Matt

Edited by uno (Thu 24-Nov-16 20:33:00)

In reply to a post by hk11:

Webchat is never available, phone takes ages to be answered, if you don't just get cut off and ticket system is a joke.

I am inclined to agree. Makes you wonder why they do so well in some of the comparison tables.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

I am inclined to agree. Makes you wonder why they do so well in some of the comparison tables.

To be fair the actual adsl service is very good and you only have problems when something goes wrong.

Plus of course we all tend to be shy of complaining.

I think there is a general tendancy to expect less and less from providers.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

Plusnet have clarified this would only ever happen if the LLU provider processes it as a cease & re-provide which almost never happens.

I wasn't going to get involved into this discussion, but since you mentioned - plusnet are sinning with it themselves.
Me and my neighbour are both migrating TO plusnet just now, and they've processed it as cease and re-provide in both cases. My neighbour is on Sky - so cease and re-provide makes sense, but I'm on EE (!).

Edited by deleted (Fri 25-Nov-16 05:25:31)

Well I thought it best to point out the £30 charge as there are lots of issues on the Plusnet forum with people being charged this fee. Very few report that they got the fee cancelled by Plusnet once they had been charged.

Yes, thanks for pointing it out.

I will take issue with them, if they charge it.

Is there any preferred method for approaching this, from the customer point of view?

I'm planning on switching to Sky, as it's going to save me over £100 on a year's contract compared to PlusNet's retention offer.

But I'd prefer to save the £30 if possible.

Sky's website advice seems to be do nothing, and leave the switch entirely up to them?

It would seem, if they do it right you won't be charged, but can you trust any ISP to do it right?

Aren't EE the same as Sky as far as networks are concerned?

EE is a subsidiary company of BT Group, running on BT Wholesale. I've a feeling it may be BTW White Label rather than BT Retail or BT Business owned.

In reply to a post by hk11:

Aren't EE the same as Sky as far as networks are concerned?

Not at all. Majority of Sky users are LLU from their exchange (for ADSL) or handover node (for VDSL/Fibre) and then on Sky network all the way to the core.

EE Broadband is the ISP previously Orange, previously Wannadoo, originally Freeserve. They pay BTWholesale to run their internet service completely, from the home, down Openreach wires (ADSL) or fibre (VDSL) and then into BTwholesale's internet presence.

BTretail uses Openreach then BTwholesale to get to BTretail's ISP core then internet.

Plusnet uses Openreach then BTwholesale to get to the Plusnet ISP core then internet.

At every step is an opportunity for problems or enhancements and levels of service, and/or cost !

UK Broadband is complicated.

Thanks James, that is what I dimly remembered about EE. For hk11, James's explanation of EE is a good definition of White Label.

No doubt the wrong "flavour" and you would be charged anyway.

I stand corrected, although my underlying point still remains.

Things are just too complicated for the average customer and ISPs seem only to happy to take advantage of this.

White lable? Is that like Red Bull, but instead of "gives you wings" it gives you wind! LOL

In reply to a post by jchamier:

UK Broadband is complicated.

Yeah, that's what I'm concluding. I don't think customer input will avail.

Just have to leave the switchover to Sky and PlusNet and cross fingers...

Is customer-requests-MAC-code not relevant to switching to Sky LLU?

Edited by deleted (Sat 26-Nov-16 16:38:33)

In reply to a post by gordon_k:

Is customer-requests-MAC-code not relevant to switching to Sky LLU?

Not relevant to anyone, the new ISP (gaining provider) does all the work. Doesn't matter what the connection, except Virgin Media cable is separate. (As they don't use the Openreach phone wires).

Ofcom changed it about a year ago.

Adding to what jcamier says, MACs don't even exist any more.

Cool - my last contract was a 24-month one, so it precedes the rejigging.