Fibre up to 38Mbps vs up to 76Mbps

Until this morning I was on Unlimited Fibre up to 76Mbps on which I get 47Mbps download reported on Speedtest.net, so when speaking to the cust service rep I asked about the difference between that product and the cheaper "up to 38Mbps" one.
I was told that the maximum speeds where as per the product name and when I asked whether PlusNet throttle the connection to achieve the 38Mbps max on my line, I was told that they didn't, so for a fair bit less monthly dosh, I've "downgraded" to the cheaper product effective today.
So far I've seen no difference in speed using Speedtest.net but it begs the question: if PlusNet don't throttle the connection, then why do they offer two-tiers of fibre service?

There are two relevant Openreach products that Plusnet sell. 80/20 and 40/2. They are advertised as 76 maximum and 38 maximum for ASA reasons. The 40/2 of course costs Plusnet less.

What you have lost, if it matters to you, is a huge chunk of your upstream speed. It was probably at or a bit above 10Mbps and is now limited to 2Mbps. Most other ISPs barring TalkTalk sell 80/20 and 40/10. BT sell 80/20 and 55/10.

You have probably also entered a new 12 or 18 month minimum term.

If you are still getting over 40Mbps downstream and around 10Mbps upstream, the downgrade simply hasn't happened yet. If you ordered it only this morning it may be overnight, or more likely 2-3 days before it happens. Plusnet order from BT Wholesale then BT Wholesale order from Openreach who have to change you over

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 02-Feb-17 19:31:50)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You have probably also entered a new 12 or 18 month minimum term.

Or 24 months if you aren't careful. I've just renewed today for 18 months but am currently awaiting a written assurance that my upload won't be reduced to 2Mbps. I've got 14 days within which to cancel if I can't get it. Whilst negotiating the first offer was a 24 month contract and that seems to be the 'default' now. I'm in the LRS trap for another 6 months anyway.

The contract that I was sent by email only specified download speed but I understand that there is some mention hidden somewhere on the +Net site that makes mention of the 2Mbps upload.

In reply to a post by longedge:

The contract that I was sent by email only specified download speed but I understand that there is some mention hidden somewhere on the +Net site that makes mention of the 2Mbps upload.

Three-quarters of the way down in the "Legal" section at the bottom of most/all pages. As well hidden as it could possibly be! I don't think it shows in any main areas.

Yes, I've just noticed the 2Mbps upload speed - that's useless to me and wasn't mentioned by the customer service rep or anywhere in the subsequent emails sent when I signed up for the new contract.

If by useless you mean insufficient, and you are sure it wasn't mentioned on the telephone, then the contract is invalid and you can get out of it. Either by returning to 76/19 or migrating without penalty.

The problem with migrating is if you are on LRS, IIRC you said you are. They won't refund that. Plus if you are aiming to save money it might be difficult.

It might be worth looking at what deals BT, Sky and TalkTalk are offering, including any cashback site offers. That might make the loss on LRS disappear.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If by useless you mean insufficient, and you are sure it wasn't mentioned on the telephone, then the contract is invalid and you can get out of it. Either by returning to 76/19 or migrating without penalty.

Can't the OP just change their mind as it's still within 14 days?

If they have one for downgrades.

Do Plusnet have a 14-day grace period anyway?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by longedge:

The contract that I was sent by email only specified download speed but I understand that there is some mention hidden somewhere on the +Net site that makes mention of the 2Mbps upload.

Three-quarters of the way down in the "Legal" section at the bottom of most/all pages. As well hidden as it could possibly be! I don't think it shows in any main areas.

If its hidden as much as that I would have thought an 80% reduction in uploads speed is sufficient for the contract to be rendered as unfair.

I've just had a reply to my support ticket which effectively = "It's 40/2 take it or leave it." I'm currently sat in a queue to tell them I'm leaving it.

Yes there is a 14 day 'cooling off period' fortunately.

p.s. - It's only the download speed that forms part of the contract, I don't know if that's fair or not.

p.p.s. - That's it. Renewal cancelled and confirmation of cancellation received in writing. I now have 6 months to have a good look round to see who my next ISP is going to be.

Edited by longedge (Fri 03-Feb-17 18:22:08)

Congrats.

You're probably right, but could be a lot of hassle if you get past the 14 days without being aware of it.

Yes the COT will offer a poorer renewal deal than previous years and the contract will be for 24 months at least and in my case that was for plain old ADSL snail speed, I had made mistake of renewing my LRS too early and therefore I had to take the renewal deal offered as the's no refund of LRS after the 14 day period, the only thing I managed to haggle down was the contract length from 24 to 12 months.

I must say I haven't had any serious grief from PN since I moved over to them some years ago and the connection although slow due to the distance to the 20CN exchange has been solid.

The sad thing is that (in spite of the large numbers of complaints I see about them) I'm perfectly happy with PlusNet otherwise. I only wanted to renew and have an undertaking that I wouldn't be dropped onto a 2Mbps upload profile i.e. renew and retain what I have got at the moment. I'm told that it's not possible to give me that assurance.

I'm left with the feeling that PlusNet just don't want me as a customer.

You mean renew at a discount .

If you do nothing at the end of a minimum term you simply go onto the standard rate on monthly terms, with no product change. You could have LRS as well without affecting it.

I think I'll wait until I get the price rise email. Currently on Unlimited Fibre Extra No Phone @ £22.49 pm. If the price rise is close to £30, I think a migration is on the cards.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You mean renew at a discount .

If you do nothing at the end of a minimum term you simply go onto the standard rate on monthly terms, with no product change. You could have LRS as well without affecting it.

Yes, true. Top and bottom is I'm p'd off. On the one hand they have posts on the forum where people have suddenly found themselves on 2Mbps upload, complained and they've been switched back but then (after first asking discretely for reassurance that I won't find myself in the same boat) I'm told that I will be on 40/2 no ifs or buts, end of.

Well my reservations have eventually been answered by the intervention of a customer support agent who was able to understand what I had been saying. The answer I got and which satisfies me is that a renewal is not a change of product. I'll keep the profile I currently have, so I've cancelled the cancellation ;^).

P.s. apologies for taking the thread somewhat off topic. A change from Unlimited Fibre Extra to Unlimited Fibre is of course a change of product and would end up on a 2Mbps upload profile.

Edited by longedge (Sun 05-Feb-17 14:42:44)

If you cancelled your contract that would not be a great thing to do. The words "cancel" and "cease" at almost certain to trigger a real cease of either or both broadband and telephone line. As you have withdrawn the cancellation all should be well and good. Should! Don't forget this is Plusnet ordering systems you are dealing with.

That leaves you without for a considerable period as an order with another ISP cannot be placed until those ceases have completed, which can be a couple of weeks after service on your account stops.

Always place a migration order somewhere, as that can theoretically be stopped for the first 10 working days (Mon-Fri). In practice it doesn't seem possible to stop it during the final 2-3 days.

Did you manage to get any retention discount on renewing your Unlimited Fibre Extra contract?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If you cancelled your contract

In short - I didn't. I cancelled the renewal. As it happens, the points you made were almost exactly what I said on my support ticket at one stage when one agent failed to understand the situation.

The level of comprehension of some of the customer support agents leaves a lot to be desired. The customer needs to be aware of the pitfalls and not just reliant on what the CSC's say so your comments are very important to know about.

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

Did you manage to get any retention discount on renewing your Unlimited Fibre Extra contract?

I'm on Unlimited Fibre (historical 40/20 product should now be 55/10 but have never been changed) not Unlimited Fibre Extra which isn't available to me anyway as I can't achieve the speed.

Yes, I have accepted the renewal with my original discount as first negotiated.

Well done. 2Mbps upstream might not have been too pleasant.

That's good that you got a discount on renewal of your Unlimited Fibre contract, eventually.

Once again sorry to joconnell for hijacking your post - hope you've sorted your problem out as well 8^)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If they have one for downgrades.

Do Plusnet have a 14-day grace period anyway?

I didn't think consumer law allows them any choice. But from here ( https://www.plus.net/help/legal/cancellation-policy/ ):
"Any non-business service from Plusnet (apart from BT Sport, Plusnet Protect and channel packs) ordered on or after 10th June 2014 can be cancelled 14 days from the day after you sign-up for the service. If you cancel during this time you will have to pay for the services you have used, any applicable installation, connection or activation charges (including any charges that were discounted or advertised as free at the time we accepted your order for the services) and return any equipment provided. If the service you sign-up for is a re-contract, upgrade or add-on, we may revert you to your previous contract upon cancellation or the closest matching service."

Which implies that not all products have a 14 day cancellation but an upgrade probably will. Maybe :-/

Edited by Andrue (Mon 06-Feb-17 12:15:35)

Right, thanks .

"Migration in" therefore simply complies with Ofcom requirements but in the case of upgrades and downgrades it exists.

That is what I've done and PlusNet have said they'll revert my fibre back to the full-fat 76Mbps. The problem is, my broadband stopped working late last night and this morning I found an email informing me that my PSTN LLU had ceased so I'm guessing my new contract had been cancelled. I've contacted PN support and hopefully normal service will be resumed by tomorrow.

Plusnet have a habit of cutting users off, seems to happen all the time here... Especially when users switch to PN from another ISP.

LLU phone??

How does that fit in? AIUI it's impossible to have a phone on LLU and a BT Wholesale broadband connection. Do you mean a WLR3 line with Sky/TalkTalk/Vodafone?

Edit - typo.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 07-Feb-17 12:31:09)

Its PlusNet so often find the phrases used don't follow the common pattern.

I used to get well confused by PlusNet portal as to where things actually were some years ago.