2010 pricing - a worked example

This quotes a question in another thread, and includes my answer from the same thread.

Technically a form of cross-post, but it creates a new thread with the info brought out into the clear, whereas the previous thread now has a lot of historical gubbage.

The question:-

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

Hi,

I don't want to create a brand new thread as my question is very similar to the OP.
I am thinking about signing up but have to query the way the quotas work.

During the signup process I'm told that I can download 2.5GB during peak or 200GB off peak. Am I literally given a choice of whether I use the Internet during the day or evening, or can I run up 2.4GB during peak and 199GB off peak and still be within my 2 unit quota?

Another possibility is that if I only downloaded in the day (unlikely) and reached my 2.5GB, I would not be able to download in the evening as I'll have eaten up my quota?

Damn this is confusing...

My (slightly edited) answer:-

It's complicated at first but a very good system. You have in fact pretty well got the hang of it, but not quite.

It isn't a choice. If you haven't seen this page have a go at it with any browser except Internet Explorer, the calculator/estimator doesn't work in that. It's good for seeing different combinations and working out ones it doesn't actually have itself.

I gather you are on 21CN or FTTC/FTTP, not 20CN.

Let's deal with your second question first - that's easy. You would indeed have used up your quota (if the days were all Mon-Fri). You wouldn't be stopped from downloading but you would be eating into the following months quota because of the carry-forward of over/under-use system. Unless you buy some extra, I'm not quite sure if/how you can do that.

Now the first question - looking at the page I linked to. Open it if you can while you are reading this.

1GB peak takes 0.8 units. Similarly 2GB takes 1.6 units. So 0.4GB take 0.32 units. 2.4GB as you specify = 1.92 units. You therefore have 0.08 units left, giving 8GB off-peak or 80GB night-time.

Similarly you can do different combinations of how you would use the 0.08. So 4GB off-peak and 40GB night-time is a possibility. Or 3GB off-peak, 10GB night-time. Or 2GB, 60GB night-time.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 06-Jan-10 20:35:32)

So is this quota system a good or bad thing?
Is seems over-complicated to me, but maybe I don't know what problems it's trying to solve.
It's not that I have a vested interest, not being on AAISP...

It's brilliant. The estimator, (which was created in a hurry and could be improved), lets you get a fair idea of how many units to contract for.

The speed a unit is used depends on whether you are in peak time, off-peak or night-time. There is also a carry-forward of over-use and under-use up to your contracted amount. So with a bit of care it is highly flexible and allows "fixed" cost broadband but significant over-use in a month without throttling or excess charges.

It does retain the high (deliberate deterrent?) peak-time cost, but not as rigidly as the previous pricing model. The reputed service quality and high off-peak/night-time allowances have to be paid for some way. For someone normally at work in the AAISP peak time I think it is highly competitive.

Well I was deliberating a move soon but to be honest the calculations have put me off, I just was something straight forward

I'd say it was definately a good thing because it provides much more flexibility in how you use your line.

The problem it is trying to solve is the mix of line-types and the differences in standing and usage costs associated with them. That's what makes it complicated.

There was a suggestion before the scheme was implemented (on usenet I think) to use the term "credit" instead of "unit".

In essense you buy some credit at the beginning of the month and it gets used up at different rates depending on when you use your line. Just like phone credit might get used up at different rates depending on what sort of numbers you call.

There's an added bonus that you can "borrow" from the following month as well.

-Steve.

During 2009 I was on the £20.95 2GB "pro" package, and the main reason I upgraded to this was to get the extra control panel option to select nointerleave / interleave / autointerleave , and also to select standard / stable / superstable. My package has been automatically converted to the £20.95 "3U" package, but I only really need 2 "units" of data as I am not a heavy downloader and 2U only costs £17.95. I'm wondering if it's possible to change to the 2U package yet still retain the "pro" control panel options?

In reply to a post by boliston:

During 2009 I was on the £20.95 2GB "pro" package, and the main reason I upgraded to this was to get the extra control panel option to select nointerleave / interleave / autointerleave , and also to select standard / stable / superstable. My package has been automatically converted to the £20.95 "3U" package, but I only really need 2 "units" of data as I am not a heavy downloader and 2U only costs £17.95. I'm wondering if it's possible to change to the 2U package yet still retain the "pro" control panel options?

I was on the 4GB package and have now been put on 5 units and *think* i have a massive carry over

Where abouts are the extra control panel options to be found please, folk mention them but I have not been able to find them on mine

Well you could give it a go as they are an excellent ISP

The calculations maybe someone here could help you with

If I have read the instructions correctly then the system they use is what I always hoped that Newnet would so. But they haven't and I don't think they will, hence the possible migration. There are some months when I don't use all my allowance and its nice to be able to carry it over to the next.

Hi
I too, was also considering a move. I was slightly worried about my ppeak time useage now I am more worried about whether I would be able to work out a system that seems unbelievably complicated, time zones, units, pro aaaarrrrghhh
Key

In reply to a post by mistynow:

I was on the 4GB package and have now been put on 5 units and *think* i have a massive carry over

Where abouts are the extra control panel options to be found please, folk mention them but I have not been able to find them on mine

If you click on the ping graph it will take you to another page with the same graph but with the option buttons above it.

It's ok thanks Misty I tried it on my main PC which has firefox on, I'll give it till the end of the week and then decide

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

So is this quota system a good or bad thing?
Is seems over-complicated to me, but maybe I don't know what problems it's trying to solve.
It's not that I have a vested interest, not being on AAISP...

Well I had grave reservations as I pointed out in an earlier thread I started when it was announced.

Now it's up and running and you can check and see your usage in your CP I love it and appreciate the flexibility far more than was described by AAISP when the news broke. Being able to carry over what was off peak usage, in units, and then the next month use it for what you want including peak time is just so much better and useful.

More than happy with how it is working from what I've seen so far.

Am I getting this right if you don't use all of your off peak units you can carry them over for peak usage, how does that work exactly, as it appears that I unit of off peak is 100gig so does that mean that even if you only use say half of that then the unit wouldn't be carried over. I thought I'd got the hang of it seems like I havent on ipstream by the way

Just below the estimator/calculator on the page I linked to at the tip it says:-

"If you use too much then over usage is carried over. Again, this is limited to the same as your tariff. If you use too much then you pay for the excess at £4.99/unit�.

The usage is all metered to the byte, and carry over from one bill to the next as well as excess usage charging is done in 0.01 unit steps. So you don't pay for a whole extra unit just for using part of it."

But the way you put the question implies you think you have a whole number of Off-peak units in your tariff to play with.

You don't! You have the total number of units you contracted for, and how you use them is nothing to do with how you estimated what you needed.

Assume you contract for 2 units on 20CN, and use 1.25GB in peak time because you are a workoholic overtime office worker. That leave you with 0.75 units.

Now assume you also use 60GB off-peak. That leaves you with 0.15 units.

Finally you also use 30GB night-time.

Your unused allowance is 0.12 units. You start the next billing period with 2.12 units.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 09-Jan-10 17:03:07)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

...and use 1.25GB in peak time because you are a workoholic overtime office worker...

Is that per day or month? If it's per month, then as someone that works from home I think you'll find a LOT more than that is needed.

"office" wasn't there to be ignored . The whole "because" clause is also irrelevant to the meat of the post and, would you believe it(?), was put in specifically to jokingly suggest that 1.25GB peak for a month was a pretty unlikely usage.

The calculation shows how things work.

That's what worries me the low allowance on peak usage, I'm home all day and like to have a browse around in the afternoons, to buy more would work out expensive so I'll just have to mull it over a bit more

The Mon-Fri daytime is high-priced, always was.

As a business model it seems to work.

I am at home all day and have used the computer with no allowance problems since last August,

even last week when himself had to work from home and was using his PC for work and general surfing, by dint of drumming into his head that he had to do all updates on his PC in the evenings plus like myself download iplayer in the cheaprate I think that even if he worked from home full time the 5 units we are now on would be ample,

In fact I think I am buying too many units..

I can't find these options either for control panel either. I'm sure they used to be there.

I'm on 5.3gig now and still have 10days to go, ok that is peak time and is 8am to midnight, I suppose that scheduling downloads into the off peak would work,I'll give it another week to see if things improve if not I'll give it a try

My peak time is 9-6pm Monday to Friday so we are finding that quite easy to work around now I have the hang of that

the peak time on AAISP is actually a much narrower time than you first realise compared to other monthly contracts ISPS.

In reply to a post by white43:

I can't find these options either for control panel either. I'm sure they used to be there.

I asked RevK on irrc about the options on controil panel, he wasn't sure so mailed support, Shaun says 20CN don't have them only 21CN but it could maybe be a feature.

AAISP peak is Mon-Fri 9am-6pm.

It's looking like I'll have to do something and the choice originally was between plusnet and aaisp, went with plusnet in the end and it has served me well for the last 12months but for some reason the last week or so havent been so good, and seeing as their offpeak is after midnight it's a bit of a trial having to find a good gateway, it's getting that none of them are performing very well at the moment (for me anyway) so it looks like I'll have to make the move, now I've said that things will buck up you watch

In reply to a post by mistynow:

I am at home all day and have used the computer with no allowance problems since last August,

Same myself, so long as you have your system set-up correctly so that it does not "auto d/l" updates for things like Windows, A/V (prog updates, not virus definitions!), Firefox etc and schedule all d/l using a d/l manager then it really is quite easy so long as you are not a gamer or like to watch online TV/YouTube etc.

I always carry over some peak allowance to the next month, it's just about being sensible with these things. I mean what are the choices if no LLU is available at your exchange? Carp ISP with medium allowance but poor performance, poor CS, no proper techs and when you do phone they are in India or wherever. Or .... A Darn good ISP with people that know what they are doing who communicate with you every step of the way that offer a great deal on off peak usage but the ONLY downside being a slender peak usage offering - But even with that you can manage it how *you* wish and still carry unused off peak allowance forward every month and use it how you wish?

Decision? *What* decision?

Just to add, we believe the calculator works in IE now.
Also we have remove the night time from it to make it simpler.
We have put it on the main broadband pricing page too.

This should all help.

Yes it does work in IE now - I noticed it the other day . I hadn't spotted the removal of the night-time bit - it was a bit irrelevant as always 0.1 units.

I've also started pointing people (when I remember) at the main pricing page not the units one where you introduced the estimator.

People still seem to have trouble with the concept that they are not tied to the figures they enter to it . You can't win 'em all!

???
If I read things right, you have in fact removed the night-time tariff altogether? Apart from the immediate future?

We currently have a special bonus aimed at people doing backups and file transfers over night. Instead of the normal 100GB/unit off peak tariff, between 2am and 6am usage is metered at 1000GB/unit.

No, the night time tariff is EXACTLY as it was. 2am to 6am with 1TB per unit usage.
It is not removed.

Its description is now in a foot note and not the main tariff section, so as to avoid confusion.

I believe what you say, but it isn't what your website says.

The only reference I can find to night-time is the quote in my previous post, from this page.

That paragraph, which specifically implies a limited period, is absent from the main Prices page. Maybe what you intended was misinterpreted by the web designer?

Sorry if it is not clear. All tariffs are "current" and could change tomorrow. Night time is nothing special in that respect.

In practice, as always, we try to give plenty of notice of changes, and we discuss the changes with customers in advance. There is no compelling reason to remove the "night time is cheaper" logic from the tariffs as night time is low usage (as with all ISPs). We may change the way that is done some time in the future, that is all, but only with lots of notice.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Just below the estimator/calculator on the page I linked to at the tip it says:-

"If you use too much then over usage is carried over. Again, this is limited to the same as your tariff. If you use too much then you pay for the excess at £4.99/unit�.

The usage is all metered to the byte, and carry over from one bill to the next as well as excess usage charging is done in 0.01 unit steps. So you don't pay for a whole extra unit just for using part of it."

But the way you put the question implies you think you have a whole number of Off-peak units in your tariff to play with.

You don't! You have the total number of units you contracted for, and how you use them is nothing to do with how you estimated what you needed.

Assume you contract for 2 units on 20CN, and use 1.25GB in peak time because you are a workoholic overtime office worker. That leave you with 0.75 units.

Now assume you also use 60GB off-peak. That leaves you with 0.15 units.

Finally you also use 30GB night-time.

Your unused allowance is 0.12 units. You start the next billing period with 2.12 units.

This bit is wrong "Your unused allowance is 0.12 units. You start the next billing period with 2.12 units."

As units are carried forward in 0.1 steps, the carry-forward is 0.10 and you start the next month with 2.10 units.

I also have a more recent explanation which illustrates how the carry-forward of over-usage works, (ie being able to eat into the following month's allowance).

Still based on the current rates though.