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Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 10-Aug-16 17:44:09
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Re: ADSL 20CN Latency - is this normal?

[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
As for AAISP refusing service, was not aware they refused to provide a service on IPStream only exchanges, remember while its not offering TalkTalk LLU, there is a wholesale service available.

AAISP talked about stopping selling 20CN service, but backed away from it. I thought that was the latest position, though it is possible they've changed their mind again and put 20CN back on 'stop sell'.

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Standard User drkdeath5000
(newbie) Wed 10-Aug-16 18:29:29
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Re: ADSL 20CN Latency - is this normal?

[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
I believe pingplotter specifically pings each hop every 1 second, but i was simply trying to point out that the average ping in no way represents the stability of the connection. I may have an average of 40ms over a 10 minute period with 40 spikes during this period where it hits 80-100ms. Considering there are 600 pings during this period the average is going to rule out the 40 spikes since they are simply outnumbered by the average so its more important to look at the spikes rather than the average and determine if they are relevant.

The real problem here is the latency spikes are not every so often, i could put up with that. Its rather when i influence any real traffic e.g. a VOIP or Game session the latency is constantly up and down. Its as if the line cannot contain a stable rate, similar to what is experienced during link saturation but without the packet loss which makes me think either a line issue (possibly degraded copper) or a problem with the exchange and how it is handling traffic, perhaps the DSLAM or how they are specifically handling the traffic.

I realise it will not be easy to figure out the problem let alone fix it but with no other broadband solution and FTTC being years away due to being on EOL as i see it i really have no option but to pursue this. In its current state i am unable to maintain a stable VOIP call, i am constantly forced to repeat myself and receive jarbled audio back. Gaming is just impossible since its constantly compensating and you just end up walking in to walls so its no fun at all.

As for AAISP i may try contacting them directly in the event it is an error with their order page as they do seem like my best chance at sorting this.

I have quickly read over the documents at but couldnt find any specific latency figures. I do know that BT specifically ignore any latency related issues. I have even read horror stories where they desregarded 10% packet loss so i'm not expecting this to be easy but there have been a few success stories over the years so its not always bad.

In the meantime if there is anyone out there still on a 20CN product (i know we are few) if you would be willing to run tests as i have at idle and slowly influence traffic in increments it would be great to see what results you get and may help me in resolving this.

I did happen to find one 20CN bqm via google and it looks to be more stable than mine but without knowing specifically what traffic rates are going through this connection its hard to say.

Edited by drkdeath5000 (Wed 10-Aug-16 18:29:44)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 10-Aug-16 19:30:52
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Re: ADSL 20CN Latency - is this normal?

[re: drkdeath5000] [link to this post]
It could be migrating to another ISP might help - but worth talking to AAISP see if they'll let you migrate. Good luck getting to bottom of this.

Not sure which other forum you could ask in, as this one may be quiet for other 20CN users.

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Standard User ian007jen
(committed) Wed 10-Aug-16 21:49:07
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Re: ADSL 20CN Latency - is this normal?

[re: drkdeath5000] [link to this post]
Here is mine

Heavy usage, yours looks good.

crosh> ping -c 50
PING ( 56(84) bytes of data.64 bytes from icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=44.1 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 time=48.1 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=3 ttl=53 time=53.1 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=4 ttl=53 time=47.9 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=5 ttl=53 time=43.9 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=6 ttl=53 time=60.1 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=7 ttl=53 time=49.0 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=8 ttl=53 time=43.8 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=9 ttl=53 time=56.2 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=10 ttl=53 time=45.3 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=11 ttl=53 time=44.0 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=12 ttl=53 time=44.6 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=13 ttl=53 time=53.4 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=14 ttl=53 time=44.7 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=15 ttl=53 time=46.4 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=16 ttl=53 time=53.6 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=17 ttl=53 time=45.0 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=18 ttl=53 time=43.8 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=19 ttl=53 time=44.5 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=20 ttl=53 time=50.9 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=21 ttl=53 time=54.7 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=22 ttl=53 time=47.1 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=23 ttl=53 time=53.0 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=24 ttl=53 time=43.8 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=25 ttl=53 time=45.6 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=26 ttl=53 time=44.4 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=27 ttl=53 time=59.1 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=28 ttl=53 time=57.9 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=29 ttl=53 time=48.2 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=30 ttl=53 time=58.0 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=31 ttl=53 time=58.4 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=32 ttl=53 time=47.5 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=33 ttl=53 time=44.1 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=34 ttl=53 time=54.3 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=35 ttl=53 time=56.1 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=36 ttl=53 time=49.9 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=37 ttl=53 time=50.4 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=38 ttl=53 time=55.5 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=39 ttl=53 time=49.6 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=40 ttl=53 time=44.1 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=41 ttl=53 time=44.3 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=42 ttl=53 time=45.1 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=43 ttl=53 time=46.0 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=44 ttl=53 time=43.5 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=45 ttl=53 time=44.0 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=46 ttl=53 time=43.7 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=47 ttl=53 time=42.5 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=48 ttl=53 time=44.5 ms64 bytes from icmp_seq=49 ttl=53 time=49.6 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=50 ttl=53 time=47.0 ms 
--- ping statistics ---50 packets transmitted, 50 received, 0% packet loss, time 49066ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 42.557/48.735/60.126/5.087 ms


edit and pings

Edited by ian007jen (Wed 10-Aug-16 21:58:39)

Standard User drkdeath5000
(newbie) Thu 11-Aug-16 15:25:56
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Re: ADSL 20CN Latency - is this normal?

[re: David_W] [link to this post]
For anyone interested i spoke with AAISP about 20CN products and this was there response
BT are phasing out the 20CN network, and it is no longer economical for
us to provide Broadband on 20CN lines. Therefore we have taken the
decision not to provide services in these areas.
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