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Standard User Tempted
(newbie) Tue 21-Aug-18 15:21:31
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BQM dropped packets


[link to this post]
 
Hi,

I recently implemented a full network upgrade in my house and having done that, then decided that I ought to ensure that my BB is performing as well as it can be, so with my HG612 modem, I now have my stats being documented and published so that I can easily check them. In addition, I have also configured BQM, which is an interesting little tool.

Initially, I didn't think too much of the results, as they appeared to correlate with normal usage patterns according to the BQM help page examples. However, now that I have 8 days of BQM graphs, I noticed a pattern that I had originally put down to just 'one of those things':

14th ~ 10:15pm
15th ~ 11pm
16th - BT master socket replaced
17th ~ 12:30am
18th ~ 1:15am
19th ~ 3:15am
20th ~ 1:15am
21st ~ 1:15am

The timings seem eerily consistent and too frequent to be just a coincidence. With the exception of the graph on the 21st (which had p2p traffic), network activity would have just been normal use at normal times.

My SNR logging from my modem stats isn't as comprehensive for these dates and so I don't have anything to compare with in that regard, but am open to suggestions as to what data would be useful for finding the cause? I will admit to not fully understanding all of it at this stage.

Any ideas what these packet losses might be?

Thanks
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 21-Aug-18 15:29:29
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Re: BQM dropped packets


[re: Tempted] [link to this post]
 
What sort of connection is it? Could guess VDSL2 due to modem but might not be and what upload and download speeds?

The chart from 20th seems to suggest around 8:20pm a lot of usage of the connection took place, e.g. a download or video stream that got close to filling the line

The 1:15am event on 20th and other times you mention looks like a resync or a drop of the PPPoE session and recreation of it.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Tempted
(newbie) Tue 21-Aug-18 15:38:12
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Re: BQM dropped packets


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, it is indeed VDSL2. Current line stats here, if it helps:

Stats recorded 21 Aug 2018 15:30:38

DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xb12d (177.45) / v0xb12d
Modem/router firmware: AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
DSL mode: VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status: Showtime
Uptime: 4 days 20 hours 33 min 15 sec
Resyncs: 1 (since 16 Aug 2018 13:47:20)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 25.8 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 29999 8135
SNR margin (dB): 8.6 5.7
Power (dBm): 13.5 3.9
Interleave depth: 8 4
INP: 57.00 39.00
G.INP: Enabled Enabled
Vectoring status: 5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)

RSCorr/RS (%): 0.1046 11.2478
RSUnCorr/RS (%): 0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour: 0 0

Since I replaced my master socket, the upload sync has been connected at the max since the connection has been up, which given my (limited) knowledge, at times has been barely hanging on by its fingernails with the SNR margin dropping as low as 2.2 on occasion and so I presume that would explain the high % of RSCorr/RS, whatever that is. DL margin has been 7 or above the entire time.

Looking through my router logs doesn't look to show any events of that ilk, although I hadn't considered that could be the case and so it might be that I need to increase my logging perhaps?


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Standard User Tempted
(newbie) Tue 21-Aug-18 15:44:14
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Re: BQM dropped packets


[re: Tempted] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, I didn't spot the comment re: the 20th...that's also p2p activity. Expected behaviour, presumably?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 21-Aug-18 15:56:24
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Re: BQM dropped packets


[re: Tempted] [link to this post]
 
That 29999kbps connection is far from the maximum available on your line and is symptomatic of it having been banded by DLM due to the instability and/or error rates.

Allied to the 8.6dB downstream noise margin at the time you took those stats, and that you say it falls to as low as 2.dB at times, that suggests to me something still awry with your wiring or setup in general.

I'm a bit confused by you saying it has been above 7 all the time, as well as saying it falls to 2.2 smile.

I'd be interested to know what exactly you did when you replaced the master socket, and what wiring was attached to it. Also how many extensions exist, whether used or not, and what is on them or the master as well as the HG612. Is that on the master, or an extension?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 70615/12459Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Tempted
(newbie) Tue 21-Aug-18 17:25:11
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Re: BQM dropped packets


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
That 29999kbps connection is far from the maximum available on your line and is symptomatic of it having been banded by DLM due to the instability and/or error rates.


Max attainable according to the modem stats.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Allied to the 8.6dB downstream noise margin at the time you took those stats, and that you say it falls to as low as 2.dB at times, that suggests to me something still awry with your wiring or setup in general.

I'm a bit confused by you saying it has been above 7 all the time, as well as saying it falls to 2.2 smile.


I was referring to both the UL and DL SNR margins, as detailed within the paragraph. The DL margin is usually between 7-8. The UL does seem to have a greater range, dropping as low as 2.2, that I've seen.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I'd be interested to know what exactly you did when you replaced the master socket, and what wiring was attached to it. Also how many extensions exist, whether used or not, and what is on them or the master as well as the HG612. Is that on the master, or an extension?


There was one pre-existing extension, which has now been removed entirely. What exactly I did when replacing the master socket, in what sense? I switched off my modem, removed the rj11 and then replaced the socket with a new NTE5C master socket and MK4 faceplate. The master now has a DECT telephone and the HG612 connected. Is that the information you were asking for?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 21-Aug-18 18:01:50
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Re: BQM dropped packets


[re: Tempted] [link to this post]
 
Saturate one side of a connection and yes one or both parts of other traffic that are send and receive will see delays, and delays may be enough to cause packet loss.

It is possible the long red spikes are provider doing something with their network which will never show up in your logs, the similar timing suggests this as a possibility

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Tempted
(newbie) Tue 21-Aug-18 18:13:00
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Re: BQM dropped packets


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Saturate one side of a connection and yes one or both parts of other traffic that are send and receive will see delays, and delays may be enough to cause packet loss.

It is possible the long red spikes are provider doing something with their network which will never show up in your logs, the similar timing suggests this as a possibility


Yes I wondered if this might be the case. I guess I wanted to put my findings to those better experienced, in case it potentially highlighted an obvious issue my end.

It doesn't affect my usage at all, but when you find these things, it's nice to figure out what it might be I guess?
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