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Standard User spgray
(newbie) Thu 05-Nov-20 15:15:13
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BQM help - virgin connection


[link to this post]
 
Hi

i've been monitoring my Virgin M200 connection for some time. I have the hub3 in modem mode with an Asus RT-AX88U as the router.

i should note that i never have any speed related issues. downstream and upstream always bang on what they should be for the package - 221Mbps down 21Mbps up

however the BQM looks not very good at all, with yellow spikes all over the place.
i have had 2 seperate visits from virgin engineers to look at the connection etc. they have replaced the internal cabling, the cabling from the cab to the external of the house. added attenuators to help with the slope the line had.

all seems to have made no difference. the line is phsyically capable of around 580Mbps (it's not a DOCSIS 3.1 area yet).
virgin have advised there are no faults/works and there are no conjestion issues.

the BQM has looked like this for months, it's not a recently new thing.
for those on the virgin forum, here is my 9 page thread about it https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Networking-and-...

here is my live BQM
My Broadband Ping

and this is yesterdays (the dopped connection was the hub receiving a software update)
My Broadband Ping
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 05-Nov-20 15:52:01
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
Fairly normal for a cable connection, more jitter is to be expected

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User spgray
(newbie) Thu 05-Nov-20 16:03:37
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
not sure it is normal though when i compare it to other virgin BQMs.
the yellow spikes are excessive, and this has been noted by a few virgin forum members.


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Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 05-Nov-20 17:00:35
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
Different areas have different network layouts on the cable side. It may be normal for your area.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User spgray
(newbie) Thu 05-Nov-20 18:46:22
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
but how can you tell if it is normal for the area or not. anyone who has seen my BQM on the virgin forum says it's dreadful and needs looked at.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 05-Nov-20 19:30:01
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
The amount of higher yellow peaks through the night till around 10am are a little worse than other lines.
From 10am today onwards your line looks no different to most Virgin lines.

I had a brand spanking new Virgin FTTP (RFOG) line, 1st on the new cabinet and a brand new network/area and it wasn't much (if any) better than your line from 10am today.

Pre 10am not great, post 10am perfectly normal for DOCSIS.
Standard User spgray
(newbie) Thu 05-Nov-20 19:57:35
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
comapre it to the BQM of jchamier though ?
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...
Standard User gary333
(experienced) Thu 05-Nov-20 20:32:34
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by spgray:
Hi

i've been monitoring my Virgin M200 connection for some time. I have the hub3 in modem mode with an Asus RT-AX88U as the router.

i should note that i never have any speed related issues. downstream and upstream always bang on what they should be for the package - 221Mbps down 21Mbps up

however the BQM looks not very good at all, with yellow spikes all over the place.
i have had 2 seperate visits from virgin engineers to look at the connection etc. they have replaced the internal cabling, the cabling from the cab to the external of the house. added attenuators to help with the slope the line had.

all seems to have made no difference. the line is phsyically capable of around 580Mbps (it's not a DOCSIS 3.1 area yet).
virgin have advised there are no faults/works and there are no conjestion issues.

the BQM has looked like this for months, it's not a recently new thing.
for those on the virgin forum, here is my 9 page thread about it https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Networking-and-...

here is my live BQM
My Broadband Ping

and this is yesterdays (the dopped connection was the hub receiving a software update)
My Broadband Ping


Apart from the graph having a bit more yellow what issue(s) are you facing? I thought the yellow was often just down to the connection being used. Mine goes up when I use the connection quite heavily. It the blue and red that’s the problem I thought. Here is my Virgin Media results for today.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 05-Nov-20 21:39:33
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by spgray:
comapre it to the BQM of jchamier though ?
My connection is not in use at the moment, so may not be a fair comparison. I am in the Surrey/Hants border network for VM.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User spgray
(newbie) Fri 06-Nov-20 12:31:15
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
my connection is not in use during the night, yet the BQM has yellow spikes all over the place during those periods.
Standard User spgray
(newbie) Fri 06-Nov-20 12:32:20
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gary333:
Here is my Virgin Media results for today.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...


yours is so much better than mine, during periods of use and periods of non-use.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 06-Nov-20 12:56:45
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
Jitter due to the shared nature of DOCSIS, combined with the performance issues of the CPE

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 06-Nov-20 12:58:49
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
Dreadful would be https://www.thinkbroadband.com/assets/guides/faq-bqm...

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User spgray
(newbie) Fri 06-Nov-20 13:15:53
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
so even a connection that isn't get used (for example overnight), it would still be normal to have yellow spikes all over the place?

between midnight and 9am the house was "asleep"
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

Edited by spgray (Fri 06-Nov-20 13:16:59)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 06-Nov-20 15:14:15
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by spgray:
so even a connection that isn't get used (for example overnight), it would still be normal to have yellow spikes all over the place?

Can be because the cable from your house goes to other homes before it goes to VM data centre. Different to the Openreach networks (ADSL, VDSL/FTTC and Openreach FTTP). If some other homes are maxing out their connection, this will impact people on the same coax cable segment.

Depending on where you are, whcih of the 28+ companies built your area, the number of homes per coax cable segment can be different. (Remember VM historically was many companies).

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User spgray
(newbie) Fri 06-Nov-20 16:08:36
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
maxing out the connection at 4am in the morning? possible i suppose but unlikely.
they'd also need to be maxing it out every day 24/7 - again possible, but unlikely?

the street cab is 3 feet away from my house (6 feet away from the entry point to the house), the cable goes direct from the external wall of the house to the cabinet (it doesn't go to a T-Point on the pavement). it's also a small cabinet compared to the larger ones elsewhere in the area.

i am in area 28 (johnstone), however these houses are around 10 years old so the virgin infrastucture for this particular group of houses didn't exist until the houses were built.

whether the cable from the cab goes to other housse en-route to the headend, i don't know.
it's still a DOCSIS 3.0 network with upgrade to 3.1 happening soon apparently.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 06-Nov-20 17:12:49
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
Jitter even when you are not using the connection is fairly normal for cable.

i.e. you won't see the pure green type graphs that DSL users post.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 06-Nov-20 19:56:41
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by spgray:
maxing out the connection at 4am in the morning? possible i suppose but unlikely. they'd also need to be maxing it out every day 24/7 - again possible, but unlikely?

Average that over say 100 to 250 homes passed in a segment, and the impacts of people on lockdown / furlough. Worse if you have a typical student house where computers may be set up to download 24x7.

the street cab is 3 feet away from my house (6 feet away from the entry point to the house), the cable goes direct from the external wall of the house to the cabinet (it doesn't go to a T-Point on the pavement). it's also a small cabinet compared to the larger ones elsewhere in the area.
Passive cabinet, similar to those outside mine. Links your cable to others, as if it was point to point to each home.

i am in area 28 (johnstone), however these houses are around 10 years old so the virgin infrastucture for this particular group of houses didn't exist until the houses were built.

whether the cable from the cab goes to other housse en-route to the headend, i don't know.
it's still a DOCSIS 3.0 network with upgrade to 3.1 happening soon apparently.

Same as the rest of the nation, you have no idea if you were coax connected to an existing section, or connected to new fibre going direct to the UBR / Head end.

Contrast with the traditional openreach network (until FTTP) which was point to point to the DSLAM, and then shared from the DSLAM. The openreach FTTP uses GPON which is shared between 32 homes.

If you forget the graph, how is the connection in use?

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User gary333
(experienced) Fri 06-Nov-20 20:21:15
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by spgray:
the street cab is 3 feet away from my house (6 feet away from the entry point to the house), the cable goes direct from the external wall of the house to the cabinet (it doesn't go to a T-Point on the pavement). it's also a small cabinet compared to the larger ones elsewhere in the area.


Being so close to the cabinet what are your power levels like? I lived next door to a cabinet in my last house and the power levels could be problematic especially on the upstream. This would lead to intermittent “freezing” of the connection and other gremlins. Virgin Media struggled to keep them in spec as even the lowest tap points in the cabinet were all setup to provide the right levels to houses that were all further away.

You mention there is no Tee (Toby). How does the cable get to the house as you’d still expect an underground shared duct? The area i live in (which I believe is the more common setup) has each house on its own cable. Some areas appear to be a kind of communal shared cable, i imagine in this instance that it would be more common for the connection to be flakier. Although, even on individual cables to the cabinet, the cabinet just acts as a big splitter and there is just a much higher quality coax cable that links it back to the node.
Standard User spgray
(newbie) Wed 18-Nov-20 13:56:00
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
sorry for the late reply.
these are my line stats.

i know a T-point is how it's supposed to work, but if i look at the cable that comes out the wall, it goes in the direction of the cabinet, not in the direct of where the t-point is.

see linked image showing a drawing of what is there (C is cabinet, T points on the pavement at front of the houses on the street). cabinet and entry point are at side of the house and cabinet is a few feet away from the entry point.

https://i.ibb.co/fN9yr5C/Screenshot-2020-11-18-13533...

Downstream bonded channels
Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID
1 323000000 4.9 37 256 qam 24
2 187000000 6.1 37 256 qam 7
3 195000000 5.8 37 256 qam 8
4 203000000 5.5 37 256 qam 9
5 211000000 5.6 37 256 qam 10
6 219000000 5.4 38 256 qam 11
7 227000000 4.8 37 256 qam 12
8 235000000 3.9 37 256 qam 13
9 243000000 3.7 38 256 qam 14
10 251000000 3.7 38 256 qam 15
11 259000000 3.5 37 256 qam 16
12 267000000 3.5 37 256 qam 17
13 275000000 3.9 37 256 qam 18
14 283000000 4.5 38 256 qam 19
15 291000000 4.5 37 256 qam 20
16 299000000 4.9 37 256 qam 21
17 307000000 4.6 38 256 qam 22
18 315000000 5.3 38 256 qam 23
19 443000000 3.7 37 256 qam 25
20 451000000 3.2 37 256 qam 26
21 459000000 2.7 37 256 qam 27
22 467000000 2.5 37 256 qam 28
23 475000000 3 37 256 qam 29
24 483000000 2.7 37 256 qam 30


Downstream bonded channels
Channel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
1 Locked 37.6 179 1
2 Locked 37.6 91 0
3 Locked 37.6 471 0
4 Locked 37.6 146 0
5 Locked 37.6 130 0
6 Locked 38.9 409 0
7 Locked 37.6 115 0
8 Locked 37.6 283 0
9 Locked 38.6 259 0
10 Locked 38.6 206 0
11 Locked 37.6 184 0
12 Locked 37.6 232 0
13 Locked 37.6 266 0
14 Locked 38.6 115 0
15 Locked 37.6 202 0
16 Locked 37.6 176 0
17 Locked 38.6 185 0
18 Locked 38.6 124 0
19 Locked 37.6 124 0
20 Locked 37.6 203 0
21 Locked 37.6 197 0
22 Locked 37.6 434 0
23 Locked 37.6 172 0
24 Locked 37.6 213 0
Standard User spgray
(newbie) Thu 19-Nov-20 10:37:51
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
and something quite peculiar happened between 2am and 4am last night https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-Nov-20 12:06:35
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by spgray:
and something quite peculiar happened between 2am and 4am last night https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...


Short term increases in the base latency like that are usually the result of a routing change.
Your connection was likely redirected somewhere in the network to take a slightly longer route.
Usually done because of a network fault or planned maintenance.
The timing points to overnight maintenance.
Standard User Phyl
(newbie) Wed 02-Dec-20 15:52:24
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Re: BQM help - virgin connection


[re: spgray] [link to this post]
 
I'm kinda jealous of your bqm, it's way better than what mine is and I've had virgin installed from a brand new installation too on the 9th October and it's been crazy once the "cancellation period" of 14 days was over.

I'm on the M100 and have my hub3 on default as I don't have a router.

This is it today: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...
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