BQM Shows 30% Packet Loss, Ping Test Doesn't

I have BQM pinging my Fritzbox 7530 constantly. I get random periods of reported packet loss of around 30%. Ping test from CMD shows no appreciable packet loss & is consistent both when BQM shows loss & not. Simply dropping the connection momentarily to get a new dynamic IP address (BT) clears this from BQM.

Any idea what's going on?

Does anyone know what threshold BQM uses to determine a packet as lost?

In reply to a post by rbz5416:

Any idea what's going on?

pingbox is on a different network to your ISP. If you ping from the Windows Command Prompt you can ping anything, including pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com but there is no guarantee the pings from your computer to TBB and back to you go through the same network paths, as pings started from the TBB end. Asymetric routing happens.

Windows command ping may not be as fast as once a second that the pingbox is sending.

In reply to a post by rbz5416:

Does anyone know what threshold BQM uses to determine a packet as lost?

I'm fairly sure it's 500mS, but I wouldn't guarantee it. That's based on memory of discussions in the early days of the BQM, which was a long while ago!

Get a free copy of PingPlotter and instal on your device.

You can run that continually and see what results you get there.

Thanks guys. I've been using this site but also downloaded PingPlotter. Neither show any packet loss while BQM does. So whatever BQM is reporting seems false.

I have been seeing the same thing on my Plusnet FTTC broadband for some time. I also use the same Fritzbox 7530 router.

The packet loss shown by BQM doesn't seem to affect speed tests from TBB or BT wholesale or pings from CMD, but shows up as a sudden jump to 20-30% packet loss followed by a gradual improvement to 0% loss over perhaps 24 hours, then its starts again with a sudden jump back to 20-30% loss.

Here's a link to a BQM graph that shows this:

My Broadband Ping

Today's results from BQM have been a bit more consistent, for no apparent reason.

My Broadband Ping

I'd also like to know why this might be happening, and why the large packet loss doesn't seem to affect speed tests or pings.

I am just curious about it, not overly concerned. Could it be a router thing rather than the line?

Interesting that yours kicked in at 2 AM, that's when mine often starts. This has only started in the last couple of weeks or so but is showing to varying degrees most days.

I don't think it's anything to do with the router as I run a pair of them as a mesh, so one connected to vDSL & the other connected to that. I swapped them around last week & the phantom packet loss is still showing. Nothing has changed in the Fritzbox setup or firmware version in that time.

I might dig out the old HG612 modem to try if I can find the will. But as long as there's no actual impact of usage I'm just curious like yourself.

And so it continues, again kicking in in the early hours:

Packet loss

Is the Fritzbox that the issue, For some reason they dont like to be pinged from the WAN interface.

Keep in mind, You dont need the HG612 modem as you can put the Fritzbox into bridge mode, see here https://en.avm.de/service/knowledge-base/dok/FRITZ-B... - Once you done that, You can attach your own router e.g netgear nighthawk r7000 with PPPoE via WAN and make sure is Cable and not ADSL2+ version,

If you with BT broadband there PPPoE is simple as

VLAN ID: 101
username: [email protected]
password: bt

Plusnet uses a username and password for PPPoE what you can request from the ISP.
https://www.plus.net/help/broadband/broadband-connec...

TalkTalk
VLAN ID: 101
No username/password needed.
https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Articles/Set-up-...

Edited by francisuk25 (Wed 31-Aug-22 03:51:38)

The Fritzbox has been in use for a year with no sign of these issues until a couple of weeks ago, so that seems highly unlikely.

Oh, I had a Fritzbox 7530 from Zen and this was one of my issues with BQM.

Before you condemn the circuit, try another router (not the same make /model).

Not an option as the BT Hubs can't be configured to respond to ping requests.

In reply to a post by rbz5416:

Not an option as the BT Hubs can't be configured to respond to ping requests.

He said "try another router", who said anything about it having to be a BT Hub?

Edit: maybe the only other router you have is a BT hub but thats not what you said

Edited by deleted (Wed 31-Aug-22 11:13:40)

In reply to a post by rbz5416:

The Fritzbox has been in use for a year with no sign of these issues until a couple of weeks ago, so that seems highly unlikely.

Try another router and find out?
The fritzbox has a firewall VERY sensitive to ICMP pings.

It could have had a recent firmware update that is only now affecting your BQM or your ISP could have their own monitoring running on the line affecting it.

Some Fritzbox's will happily run with 1 BQM. Mine does. If I try run a 2nd BQM the Fritbox either shows packet loss of completely blocks ICMP, showing as full red sections on the BQM.

I would put my money on it being the Fritzbox, especially with it only showing in the BQM and not in actual use.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 06-Sep-22 12:39:00)

I pulled the faceplate off the master socket to connect to the test & also changed the cable while I was at it. Too soon to be conclusive but that was six days ago with no loss shown on BQM. Sync speed has also increased & seems more stable.

I've just put the faceplate back on so will see how that goes.

As already stated, there have been no recent updates to the Fritzbox firmware & I don't have another router to try.

Quick update.

The apparently phantom BQM packet loss came back with no obvious difference in real world performance between "clean" & 25% reported loss by BQM.

I put the HG612 on the line to take the 7530's modem out of the equation & the issue persists.

Is there no one from TB reading these forums who can answer what criteria is being used to report supposed packet loss?

In reply to a post by rbz5416:

Is there no one from TB reading these forums who can answer what criteria is being used to report supposed packet loss?

I'm just an ordinary user and can't speak for TBB in any way, but back in the early days of the BQM someone from TBB said that the Firebrick will wait for 500mSec for a response before deciding the packet is lost.

That may have changed but I hope it may be of some help.

Just found this:

In reference to www.thinkbroadband.com/faq/broadband-quality-monitor:

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Variable IPv4 vs IPv6 results - and packetloss on BQM without 'real world' loss
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Also what we have sometimes noticed is that the BQM tool reports packet-loss (3% or even 100%) whilst "real world" pings report none. This seems to be related to the fact our BQM appliance will send pings out with a very small payload, and some routers or networks seem to drop those packets, either entirely, or randomly. You can replicate this yourself on a Linux system by using "ping -c 100 -s 0 " (or ping6 for v6).

Might be relevant.

Thanks Bill, but still odd that it should suddenly start happening a year after the router was installed, with no firmware updates in that time. So something changed somewhere.

I put the HG612 on yesterday & BQM was clean. This morning it showed 20% packet loss kicked in around 1AM & is still present. I'm also running DSLstats on the HG612 & that shows no deviation on the line at that time.

Packetlosstest.com shows zero loss at 15 pings per second with a threshold of 50mS.

Maybe the packets are being dropped at your ISP - perhaps they see them as a DDoS or similar and therefore start dropping them - it isn't necessarily your router dropping the packets and isn't necessarily TBB causing the issue (although either is possible).

In reply to a post by rbz5416:

still odd that it should suddenly start happening a year after the router was installed, with no firmware updates in that time. So something changed somewhere.

True, all I can think of is that the bit "...some routers or networks seem to drop those packets..." also applies to the path between you and the Firebrick, and if that is the cause then it's anybody's guess what's been going on there

In reply to a post by ian72:

Maybe the packets are being dropped at your ISP - perhaps they see them as a DDoS or similar and therefore start dropping them - it isn't necessarily your router dropping the packets and isn't necessarily TBB causing the issue (although either is possible).

Maybe. But given that the 7530 is pretty common (provided by Zen) & the ISP is BT, I'd have thought there would be more instances reported if either were at fault.

Well this is interesting. Just out of curiosity I set one monitor to the IPv4 address & another to the IPv6. In the early hours of this morning (as usual) 30% packet loss started from nowhere on the v4 monitor & continues now. The v6 monitor is completely clean.