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Standard User Schrodingers_Cat
(experienced) Thu 22-Jul-10 17:19:19
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Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[link to this post]
 
BT would have me believe that 'less than 1%' of users exceed 100gb usage a month. That may or may not be true....but then it's a bit of a misleading statement as it almost seems to imply there's loads of people using far less when a graph of usage would probably show a considerable number in the 50gb to 100gb range.

100gb really ISN'T a huge amount.....and capping is somewhat akin to the early motor cars where a guy had to walk in front with a red flag. Plus, the smaller the percentage that BT try to make out use over 100gb....as if to imply ' you are part of a really quite small naughty element'.....the more one can quite justifiably retort 'If the number exceeding 100gb is so small, why is it a problem ?'. BT can't have the argument both ways.

100gb is 3.3gb a day. In real terms, that equates to maybe watching a single BBC iPlayer documentary a day. For those such as myself who increasingly watch TV via the internet....100gb is peanuts. Yet at the same time as we have these download restrictions, we have telecoms companies hyping 'the future' of the net.....precisely such things as online TV, better games access, virtual worlds, etc etc.

As the system currently stands, it would appear the man with the red flag comes out after an hour of TV, and hour of Counterstrike, and an hour on Second Life. So much for that glorious future.
Standard User oddius
(newbie) Thu 22-Jul-10 18:30:27
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Schrodingers_Cat] [link to this post]
 
BT could always move to pay for what you consume model, which some of the US ISP's would love to do, how would you feel about it then?

Remember the good old days of dial-up with high telephone bills, I'm sure BT would love to see that again.
Standard User GMAN98
(learned) Thu 22-Jul-10 18:55:04
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: oddius] [link to this post]
 
I think iPlayer is coming to BT Vison, watch it on that and it won't count towards your usage wink


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Standard User Schrodingers_Cat
(experienced) Fri 23-Jul-10 02:17:32
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: oddius] [link to this post]
 
Remember the good old days of dial-up with high telephone bills, I'm sure BT would love to see that again.


Yes I well recall paying over £120 a month for my 56k connection back in 1998/1999, The sheer IRONY is that it's people like me paying all that back then that made BTs broadband possible for today's script kiddies and all the noobs BT now entice with promises of 'unlimited' broadband.

My view is that getting over 100gb now is simply making up for the ludicrous prices I paid with dial up. THAT is what I call 'fair'.
Standard User MarkHampshire
(member) Fri 23-Jul-10 02:30:06
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Schrodingers_Cat] [link to this post]
 
I watch about 2 TV shows a month on iPlayer and use about 7GB/mo.

I can't understand how anyone could possibly use 100GB in one month.

Even when I backed up all 4 of my production web/mail/db servers in full locally, we were still only looking at about 40GB that month (thankfully not over my 3G link!)

What's "fair" isn't really relevant. Broadband isn't some kind of socialised communal facility.

"Fair Usage Policy" is a tool used to mislead customers that the "unlimited" headline grabbing sales tag line means unlimited, when in reality the FUP enables the ISP to move the limit up and down at will as they see fit without infringing on their duties under your contract.

e.g. grocer advertises "unlimited fruit and veg for £5" and then in small letters, a FUP which states that there's a limit of 1 bag per customer to make sure supply can cater for demand. So unlimited = 1 bag. Not sure Weights and Measures would take kindly to that sort of advertising, why it's been OK for broadband for so long is thanks to the useless ASA.

There are signs that the "fair usage" model AKA "unlimited internet" should be gone soon (o2, Three announcements) replaced with hard caps on data transfer.

That way people really know what they're buying.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Fri 23-Jul-10 03:06:53
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Schrodingers_Cat] [link to this post]
 
No, just as long as you pay a fair price for it. I pay £12 pm for about 5Gb usage (not cap); so you are welcome to pay £240 pm for that sort of use wink.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU BB
Standard User mil1401
(member) Fri 23-Jul-10 06:39:19
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: MarkHampshire] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MarkHampshire:
I watch about 2 TV shows a month on iPlayer and use about 7GB/mo.

I can't understand how anyone could possibly use 100GB in one month.


Go here http://revision3.com/diggnation and download the back catalogue of HD episodes, then do the same here http://revision3.com/hdnation then do the same here http://revision3.com/tekzilla then do the same here http://revision3.com/trs then do the same for all the various shows here http://twit.tv/ and then you'll be downloading over 700 Gigabytes in one month....just like I do.

Just because *you* don't know how to use a broadband connection properly, doesn't mean those of us that *do* should be restricted to a paltry 100 Gigabytes per month cap.

_______________________________________________

Chris

The first residential broadband customer in South Scotland......online since 29th August 2001 grin

Wirenet ---> PlusNet ---> RedHotAnt ---> BigBlueSky ---> NTL ---> BT ---> Zen ---> BT 8Mb Option 3

BT ULTRA user
Standard User GMAN98
(learned) Fri 23-Jul-10 08:06:27
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
So does using it properly constitute maxing it out each month, I didn't realise that if you weren't you weren't using it right?

Anyway if you are unhappy with your 100G pm cap then the package isn't for you and you should consider moving to someone who doesn't cap?
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Fri 23-Jul-10 09:35:02
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Schrodingers_Cat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Schrodingers_Cat:
BT would have me believe that 'less than 1%' of users exceed 100gb usage a month.
I can believe that.
That may or may not be true....but then it's a bit of a misleading statement as it almost seems to imply there's loads of people using far less when a graph of usage would probably show a considerable number in the 50gb to 100gb range.
Not as a %ge. I think most people use less than 20GB and that's being generous and assuming a lot of iPlayer use. I reckon the majority of users are probably below 10GB a month. Put it this way - anyone that only surfs a bit and reads some email is barely going to crack 1GB a month. With Windows updates that might edge toward 2GB. Mine sometimes does.
100gb really ISN'T a huge amount
Yes it is. It's a huge amount of data. It's especially large when we're talking about transferring it down a residential connection.
.....and capping is somewhat akin to the early motor cars where a guy had to walk in front with a red flag.
Yes, that was to protect other people. The same applies here. You are grabbing far more of a shared resource than most people. By doing that you are putting the shared service at risk.
Plus, the smaller the percentage that BT try to make out use over 100gb....as if to imply ' you are part of a really quite small naughty element'.....the more one can quite justifiably retort 'If the number exceeding 100gb is so small, why is it a problem ?'. BT can't have the argument both ways.
Because you are taking so much more of the service.

It's commonly quoted as '10% of the users are using 90%' of the capacity'. Since capacity=cost that translates as '10% of the users are responsible for 90% of the ISP's running costs'. That isn't fair to the other users. If the ISP tries to limit its costs (as it's bound to in an attempt to stay profitable) then everyone suffers because capacity is limited. What you then have is '10% of users are causing congestion issues for 90% of users'. That's not fair.

In simple terms imagine a village well. Most people walk up to it with a bucket, fill that and walk away. You OTOH have installed a pump and piping and are taking water out as fast as you possibly can. As a result the well keeps running dry and everyone else in the village is suffering. Now maybe you could pay a company to install a deeper/bigger well - but who pays? Do you expect your fellow villages to help with the cost? After all if they got rid of you there'd be no problem any longer.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile

Edited by Andrue (Fri 23-Jul-10 09:38:20)

Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Fri 23-Jul-10 09:40:39
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mil1401:
Just because *you* don't know how to use a broadband connection properly, doesn't mean those of us that *do* should be restricted to a paltry 100 Gigabytes per month cap.
Actually it's you that doesn't know how to use a broadband connection properly. You are abusing a residential connection by downloading outrageous amounts of data. It's people like you that ruin it for everyone else. If you want to do that kind of thing then you should pay for a business grade connection.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Fri 23-Jul-10 09:42:14
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mil1401:
Just because *you* don't know how to use a broadband connection properly, doesn't mean those of us that *do* should be restricted to a paltry 100 Gigabytes per month cap.
As long as your ISP doesn't complain then it's fine. OTOH the OP appears to have been told by his ISP that there's a problem so your suggestion is inappropriate.

The figures you quote are not a reasonable use of a residential connection. Frankly it's an outrageous abuse that suggests it's you who doesn't know how to use a broadband connection properly. As long as your ISP tolerates it then fair enough but don't go around trying to make out that you're clever. You aren't. Just because a restaurant offers 'all you can eat for £10' doesn't mean that it's 'proper' to move in and spend all day and night sat at a table stuffing yourself.

'Unlimited' assumed that people would be sensible and have respect for other customers. Unfortunately a persistent minority of people such as yourself refuse to behave in a responsible way. Whether it's greed or ignorance I don't really know, but it isn't helping.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile

Edited by Andrue (Fri 23-Jul-10 09:48:24)

Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Fri 23-Jul-10 10:56:07
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mil1401:
Go here http://revision3.com/diggnation and download the back catalogue of HD episodes, then do the same here http://revision3.com/hdnation then do the same here http://revision3.com/tekzilla then do the same here http://revision3.com/trs then do the same for all the various shows here http://twit.tv/ and then you'll be downloading over 700 Gigabytes in one month....just like I do.

Just because *you* don't know how to use a broadband connection properly, doesn't mean those of us that *do* should be restricted to a paltry 100 Gigabytes per month cap.
What do you intend to do with that 700GB per month? It is humanly impossible to watch all that so what is the point.

In particular, do the examples you give incur that amount every month?

Other posters are saying you are being unreasonable. My view of you is somewhat more insulting, to do with your intelligence and/or quality of life.

The only thing I see there is to complain about regarding a 100GB cap is when it is in the small print of an "unlimited" product, but the discussion of that has been run and re-run ad nauseam.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Fri 23-Jul-10 11:00:25
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: MarkHampshire] [link to this post]
 
There are signs that the "fair usage" model AKA "unlimited internet" should be gone soon (o2, Three announcements) replaced with hard caps on data transfer.
Actually on O2 Access the new 20GB allowance is an FUP not a hard cap. So better than ISPs that charge when the allowances are reached.

The service itself continues when it is reached. Just renders the user liable to cancellation of the contract if repeated.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User TJNewton
(regular) Fri 23-Jul-10 11:03:29
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
The only thing I see there is to complain about regarding a 100GB cap is when it is in the small print of an "unlimited" product, but the discussion of that has been run and re-run ad nauseam.


Totally agree until companies drop the "unlimted" claim the discussion will continue ad nauseam.

BTBroadband MAX (?) DSL

Re-record not fade away............................
Standard User MarkHampshire
(member) Fri 23-Jul-10 11:59:53
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: TJNewton] [link to this post]
 
Indeed, agreed. This is one of those things where you really need a separate body to determine what is and is not acceptable advertising. We have one, but it repeatedly fails spectacularly.

As soon as some ISPs drop "unlimited" in favour of e.g. "25Gb per month" all that happens is that the er, unlimited providers take up the customers who use the most. Who then get hacked off thanks to these FUP policies.

e.g. BT's comments about their wireless access thing "Now that O2 have started to ration mobile broadband" - LOL, BT's reisdential ADSL packages are not unlimited as they have a FUP.

ISPs to some extent get the customers they deserve through their own idiocy.

Since I have a 2.7Mbps connection downloading 100GB would take a very, very long time and would cost me £357 in data transfer allowances. That seems not unreasonably priced to me given it's 3G. Over ADSL it would take a lot longer and my Zen connection used to have a cap on it too.

In years to come, 100GB in one month won't seem that unreasonable.

We'll also look back with some mild amusement at the way that broadband used to be unlimited, in the same way that we'll wonder how it used to be the case that email was free.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User mil1401
(member) Fri 23-Jul-10 14:23:03
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In reply to a post by mil1401:
Just because *you* don't know how to use a broadband connection properly, doesn't mean those of us that *do* should be restricted to a paltry 100 Gigabytes per month cap.
Actually it's you that doesn't know how to use a broadband connection properly. You are abusing a residential connection by downloading outrageous amounts of data. It's people like you that ruin it for everyone else. If you want to do that kind of thing then you should pay for a business grade connection.

Why should I? I am not a business.

Please show me where it states in the BT terms & conditions for Option 3, that I am *abusing* my residential connection by downloading 700 Gigabytes in one month.

Every single bit of that data is *legal*, *legitimate* and with the copyright holder's *permission* and within the T&C's of my broadband connection.

Just because *you* don't like it....doesn't make it an *abuse* of a residential broadband connection.

_______________________________________________

Chris

The first residential broadband customer in South Scotland......online since 29th August 2001 grin

Wirenet ---> PlusNet ---> RedHotAnt ---> BigBlueSky ---> NTL ---> BT ---> Zen ---> BT 8Mb Option 3

BT ULTRA user
Standard User mil1401
(member) Fri 23-Jul-10 14:25:34
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In particular, do the examples you give incur that amount every month?


Where did I state that I download that amount *every* month.

_______________________________________________

Chris

The first residential broadband customer in South Scotland......online since 29th August 2001 grin

Wirenet ---> PlusNet ---> RedHotAnt ---> BigBlueSky ---> NTL ---> BT ---> Zen ---> BT 8Mb Option 3

BT ULTRA user
Standard User oddius
(newbie) Fri 23-Jul-10 15:15:41
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: TJNewton] [link to this post]
 
BT's unlimited is just that unlimited, it's just if you go over an uncertian quota your speed is capped you can continue downloading at your hearts content but only slower.

I suspect at some point BT will say enough is enough, and terminate the contract.
Standard User kamelion
(experienced) Fri 23-Jul-10 16:17:53
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Tell that to the people who have been asked to leave.

My usage is fairly low at the moment, but in a peak month it is fairly easy to reach 100GB without downloading anything unlawfully.

On the other hand, Fair Usage Policies are only fair to the ISP. They don't take into account mean data transfer over the contract period. For the hard of thinking that means (using the BT FUP) 12 months x 100GB = 1.2 TB. Some months youmight use <10 GB but they don't give credit for that. They only see the negative; i.e. when you go over the 100 GB in a particular month in spite of low usage over the previous months.

Technically BE and O2 LLU fall into a grey area as they have no cutoff point, the only warning ever (to my knowledge) on BE being given to someone who was spamming emails.

BT have a set limit for their FUP being 100GB. AN average family wouldn't hit that limit even taking into account OS upgrades, itunes downloads and Iplayer usage.

The OP should have known what they were signing up for; after all, the figures where there in black and white, something few ISPs provide these days.

BeUnlimited
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 2,273 / 21,442
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Fri 23-Jul-10 16:19:56
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mil1401:
Where did I state that I download that amount *every* month.
Implied here -
you'll be downloading over 700 Gigabytes in one month....just like I do.

Just because *you* don't know how to use a broadband connection properly, doesn't mean those of us that *do* should be restricted to a paltry 100 Gigabytes per month cap.
If you only did it once or occasionally you would have said so, and your argument would have fallen down as a result.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Fri 23-Jul-10 16:23:37
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: kamelion] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kamelion:
Tell that to the people who have been asked to leave.
My point was that it isn't a hard cap. As quoted in my post.

If it were then the service would stop until the next billing period, or be limited to 128kbps (or is that normal these days? tongue) or to access to a portal to purchase a topup.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User mil1401
(member) Fri 23-Jul-10 16:44:34
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by mil1401:
Where did I state that I download that amount *every* month.
Implied here -
you'll be downloading over 700 Gigabytes in one month....just like I do.

Just because *you* don't know how to use a broadband connection properly, doesn't mean those of us that *do* should be restricted to a paltry 100 Gigabytes per month cap.
If you only did it once or occasionally you would have said so, and your argument would have fallen down as a result.

I still never stated that I download 700 Gigabytes *every single month*.

You grabbed onto that figure and drew your own conclusions.

_______________________________________________

Chris

The first residential broadband customer in South Scotland......online since 29th August 2001 grin

Wirenet ---> PlusNet ---> RedHotAnt ---> BigBlueSky ---> NTL ---> BT ---> Zen ---> BT 8Mb Option 3

BT ULTRA user
Standard User kial
(member) Fri 23-Jul-10 16:57:40
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Schrodingers_Cat] [link to this post]
 
I download a lot as do others via Xbox live and other services such as Steam but I haven't heard anything about a 100GB limit or speed reductions due to very heavy use.

I read BT's Fair Use Policy but it doesn't state anything about 100GB. It mentions very heavy use results in reduced speeds but it doesn't provide any detail and neither does it provide examples of the consequences of the speed reductions.

Why are BT able to enforce a vague Fair Use Policy?
Is it possible to contest the consequences of the FUP?
I am surprised noone has requested the vague "very heavy users" and "speed reductions" be clearly defined on the BT website or has BT refused to do so?

If BT decided I was a very heavy user what would be the consequences?

Would Xbox live still be playable?
How about video streaming?
Do BT vary the allowable download speeds during the speed reduction period or is it a defined limit?

TIA

kial
Standard User orly
(experienced) Fri 23-Jul-10 17:40:19
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In reply to a post by mil1401:
Just because *you* don't know how to use a broadband connection properly, doesn't mean those of us that *do* should be restricted to a paltry 100 Gigabytes per month cap.
Actually it's you that doesn't know how to use a broadband connection properly. You are abusing a residential connection by downloading outrageous amounts of data. It's people like you that ruin it for everyone else. If you want to do that kind of thing then you should pay for a business grade connection.


Just to butt in...

How is 100GB/month abusing a residential connection? In this house there's 4 or 5 devices sharing an Infinity connection and making good use of the new speed to do all sorts of things. It's a private house so a residential service should be what is installed. Is it fair for the ISP, advertising "unlimited" with a name like "Infinity" (in my case) to come along and complain when someone takes them on about their shady advertising practices? Bear in mind the BT infinity site shows all sorts of benefits for "busy homes" and those wanting to stream HD content and the like.

Frankly the ISPs are just asking for trouble when they play games like this. If they want to place a limit then place it and be done, and cut all the [censored] out of their sites about using for data hungry applications. All this hiding behind FUPs, AUPs and comical misuse of simple words is what causes the difficulty. They can't have their cake and eat it. Which is it? Unlimited and heavily used or limited and used at potential for perhaps 2% of the time?

Considering my somewhat "slow" fibre connection (only 25mbit) would eat 100GB in less than 12 hours if we assume 2.5MB/sec, 100GB for an entire month seems less than excessive. But then again, if "most" people don't use anything like that, what's the problem with those who do? Should be plenty of bandwidth to go spare.

---
BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 10 KILMAINE ROAD BT19 6DT
600m to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up

Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT
Standard User orly
(experienced) Fri 23-Jul-10 17:52:19
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
'Unlimited' assumed that people would be sensible and have respect for other customers. Unfortunately a persistent minority of people such as yourself refuse to behave in a responsible way. Whether it's greed or ignorance I don't really know, but it isn't helping.


Nonsense. Unlimited was never put into the marketing dribble in any sort of anticipation of users being sensible. Many, perhaps most, users have no notion of what a megabit or gigabyte is. Unlimited is a very simple and clear word - it means no limitation, not restricted, without boundary or hindrance. The ISPs know it looks good on paper and that's the sole reason the word appears anywhere related to internet connectivity.

If I was to use my connection in a truly unlimited fashion, i'd be able to shift somewhere beyond 6 TB per month. I fail to see how using it for even 500GB of transfer, let alone 100GB, would constitute an "outrageous abuse" as you liked to call it...as 500GB would constitute something like 8% of total capability of the supposedly unlimited connection.

---
BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 10 KILMAINE ROAD BT19 6DT
600m to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up

Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT
Standard User RandomJointer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 23-Jul-10 18:15:16
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Schrodingers_Cat] [link to this post]
 
100 gig a month is very high usage. I am not in the 'hang all high users' camp though.

What I will ask is - Have you been contacted to say that you must reduce your usage? Why are you still with BT if the service is not to your needs? As you have been complaining about this issue for years.

Standard User RandomJointer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 23-Jul-10 18:17:57
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
>>The service itself continues when it is reached. Just renders the user liable to cancellation of the contract if repeated.

Yes, it is deplorable that monster telco Telefonica are arbitrarily cancelling service to high using customers.

Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Fri 23-Jul-10 18:25:58
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RandomJointer:
Yes, it is deplorable that monster telco Telefonica are arbitrarily cancelling service to high using customers.
tongue

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User shtu
(experienced) Fri 23-Jul-10 20:08:16
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mil1401:
I still never stated that I download 700 Gigabytes *every single month*.

You grabbed onto that figure and drew your own conclusions.


Ahh, it's you again.

A good time to point everyone to this thread from *ages* ago...

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bt/f/3749034-speed-...

I've still never figured out why you feel the need to brag about this then become all defensive when people ask you quite reasonable questions. Nobody forced you to tell us about your usage, but some of us are genuinely interested in what sort of usage generates that kind of throughput, especially when you claim to neither store or use the data...
Standard User GMAN98
(learned) Fri 23-Jul-10 20:29:10
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: shtu] [link to this post]
 
I'm pretty sure downloading these backcatalogs he's referring to is just legit cover for what he's really downloading.

I'll say again, if you are not happy with it move to another ISP, I'm sure BT would love to see the back of you.
Standard User mil1401
(member) Sat 24-Jul-10 07:22:23
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GMAN98:
I'm pretty sure downloading these backcatalogs he's referring to is just legit cover for what he's really downloading.

I'll say again, if you are not happy with it move to another ISP, I'm sure BT would love to see the back of you.

Do you have any evidence of any illegal downloads on my connection? If you do, please share it with the forum.

Either put up or shut up.

_______________________________________________

Chris

The first residential broadband customer in South Scotland......online since 29th August 2001 grin

Wirenet ---> PlusNet ---> RedHotAnt ---> BigBlueSky ---> NTL ---> BT ---> Zen ---> BT 8Mb Option 3

BT ULTRA user
Standard User GMAN98
(learned) Sat 24-Jul-10 10:00:21
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
Maybe you should take some of your own advice.... no-one is interested in your leeching if you don't like your current provider move and stop whining.
Standard User MarkHampshire
(member) Sat 24-Jul-10 12:09:30
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: orly] [link to this post]
 
While I do think 100GB in one month is "unusually high", or "excessive" use of a residential connection, I'm in 100% agreement on the points you make.

Either something is unlimited, or it isn't.

What's probably needed here is legislation like the banks have for loans and agreements e.g. a clear box next to the bit you sign and on the online form which highlights precisely what happens when you exceed a set limit with that limit being clearly shown in type 1.5 times larger than anything else on the form.

That limit is then for the duration of contract, as is any traffic shaping - also clearly stated. Changes to any parameter are changes to contract which enable the customer to terminate with no penalty.

What would also be welcome is - in the same box - an estimate of line speed, and should the connection be > 10% less than that, again the customer can cancel without penalty. BTOFCOM were looking at that one, but dropped the idea for some reason.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Sat 24-Jul-10 12:55:41
Print Post

Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GMAN98:
Maybe you should take some of your own advice.... no-one is interested in your leeching if you don't like your current provider move and stop whining.
He isn't whining in this thread, and anywhere else is irrelevant.

I don't like his views, and disagree with them, but all he did in this thread was suggest that people with a 100GB cap who are unhappy should move. Which is a valid suggestion if they can find anywhere to go to.

Quite why you are flaming him and suggesting he moves I don't understand.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 24-Jul-10 12:57:01)

Standard User GMAN98
(learned) Sat 24-Jul-10 13:42:26
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I'm not flaming him, he's in the minority (downloading 700Gb in a month) and he's expecting the product to change to suit him instead of moving to a service that already suits him.

And I don't think he suggested he should move did he, I suggested that?

He's complaining that he can't download 700Gb in a month without being penalised.

Edited by GMAN98 (Sat 24-Jul-10 13:51:31)

Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Sat 24-Jul-10 13:56:13
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GMAN98:
He's complaining that he can't download 700Gb in a month without being penalised.
On the contrary he seems to me to be saying he can.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User digiscott
(newbie) Sat 24-Jul-10 14:55:00
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
The problem is that nothing is made clear by BT or any other ISP in advertising ,unlimited downloads ,but at a speed BT decide,not the speed you signed up for,your speed will be up to 8 mg ,sorry you can only get 2mg.
FUP a license for BT/another ISP to change the rules to suit themselves.

It is time that the contracts between users and ISP were clarified. you have a download limit of x ,you have a speed of y .Its simple.

Ban the use of unlimited in advertising unless it truely is unlimited and no penalties of any kind are invoked for supposed overuse. Remove the vague terms in fup so that the policy is clear and does not allow the isp to change the rules when it wants.
Standard User GMAN98
(learned) Sat 24-Jul-10 14:59:36
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by GMAN98:
He's complaining that he can't download 700Gb in a month without being penalised.
On the contrary he seems to me to be saying he can.


So what is he complaining about then? smile
Standard User GMAN98
(learned) Sat 24-Jul-10 15:02:24
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: digiscott] [link to this post]
 
Agreed Scott it should be crystal clear, but the ISP can change the T&C's and usage policy at any time anyway.

But yeah it should be clear, I wonder which ISP dare go first.
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Sat 24-Jul-10 15:49:09
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
People who complain.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 24-Jul-10 16:19:02
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
its high compared to the average but not high compared to what a connection can do.

typical adsl speed lets say 4mbit, a 4mbit line can if pushed 24/7 download 1.28tb a month. So 100gig a month is under 10% of utilisation.
on FTTC it gets sillier as typical speeds will be way higher and 100gig will be a low single digit % utilisation.

typical uk problem where isp's up burst speeds but dont expect customers to utilise it more.

an isp marketing unlimited should actually 'expect' some people to use as such and deal with it, if they cant deal with it then stop marketing it, its not rocket science.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Sat 24-Jul-10 16:30:34
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Communications, Internet or otherwise, are not intended for 24/7 continuous use.; they would grind to halt if used so. Designed for data in bursts/packets.

Do you use your phone 24/7 just cuz it's there? (going by peeps in the street on their mobiles I do wonder wink)

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU BB
Standard User orly
(experienced) Sat 24-Jul-10 16:50:11
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Communications, Internet or otherwise, are not intended for 24/7 continuous use.; they would grind to halt if used so. Designed for data in bursts/packets.

Do you use your phone 24/7 just cuz it's there? (going by peeps in the street on their mobiles I do wonder wink)


Of course people don't. The issue here is that some people (and ISPs) believe utilising the connection less than 10% of the time is "outrageous" despite gearing their marketing campaigns and wording to promote exactly what it is they seem to dislike.

---
BT Infinity 8th July 2010
Connected to: P23 10 KILMAINE ROAD BT19 6DT
600m to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up

Previously:
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 9dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT
Standard User Schrodingers_Cat
(experienced) Sat 24-Jul-10 17:34:21
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
Just because *you* don't know how to use a broadband connection properly, doesn't mean those of us that *do* should be restricted to a paltry 100 Gigabytes per month cap.


LOL.....I think that's the sort of Oscar Wilde type quip that truly sums it up !

Personally I find nauseating the type who come on with "I only use 7gb a month and YOU are cheating everyone else ".......and who then in the very next breath brag about having a 7.2mbit connection..........while here's ME with my poxy connection that seldom gets above 1.5mbit ...and it's somehow unfair that I use this LESS THAN OFFICIALLY RECOGNISED BROADBAND SPEED to download more.

WHY is if fair that someone else gets 7.2mb and I only get 1.5mb for the same price......yet it's unfair if I download more ??
Standard User Schrodingers_Cat
(experienced) Sat 24-Jul-10 17:52:44
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ?? *DELETED*


[re: MarkHampshire] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by billford
Standard User Schrodingers_Cat
(experienced) Sat 24-Jul-10 18:03:27
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
Frankly it's an outrageous abuse that suggests it's you who doesn't know how to use a broadband connection properly.


No..you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Just because all YOU ever do is visit simple text websites or send a few emails.....you seem to thing that somehow those who have discovered the FULL potential of the internet ( often hyped by the telecoms companies themselves ) are being 'outrageous'. What a load of old cobblers !

This isn't a case like 'all you can eat for £10'...and a few coming in and scoffing 10 times their fair share. It is far more like ' all you can eat for £10'.......and a handful of people get a DECENT MEAL while the rest have one nibble of a cup cake and then start fo feel guilty they've had too much !
Standard User MarkHampshire
(member) Sat 24-Jul-10 18:05:23
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Schrodingers_Cat] [link to this post]
 
Probably one of the reasons my usage isn't that high is precisely because it's metered and I have to pay for what I use. £25 per 7GB gets me a near 3Mbps connection over 3G.

I also have the option of ADSL but it's only 1.7Mbps, so it's just too slow albeit £25 per month on Zen on the package I used to have plus the care package gives 50GB so it's much cheaper for higher volumes. Probably what you'd expect in that 3G is hardly a service with mountains of bandwidth available for everyone.

As the ADSL is so slow I've stuck with 3G and although I've sat and watched endless episodes of 'Coach Trip' on You Tube that's on a laptop at fairly low res.

If I bought the kit to connect it up to the TV I probably would watch more TV online but the cost of doing so is prohibitive.

Which is precisely the model that's needed to discourage very heavy users from swamping an ISP and is also precisely the model that most mainstream ISPs don't want to adopt for fear of dissuading customers - far better in their eyes to get the customer signed up, and then point to the "Fair Usage Policy" when the user with their unlimited broadband dares make use of it.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Sat 24-Jul-10 20:37:32
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Schrodingers_Cat] [link to this post]
 
The point is that 100GB per month on a BT Wholesale service costs at least £100 per month to provide, given the capacity-based BTW structure.

If all ISPs were to charge in allowance bands to reflect that at a lower level, as do IDNet, Zen, Newnet and a few other quality providers, you couldn't possibly afford your downloads. So who is paying for it? You aren't.

I agree the term "unlimited" when it isn't should be disallowed, but I also agree with users who are happy to pay up to £25 to have a service where they don't have to worry about whether or not they are going to hit their limit towards the end of each month. Been there, done that. Not pleasant at all.

With an FUP of 100GB most sensible users even with families and a lot of usage should have no problem. If a few need more, that is no problem to the ISP due to the huge number who don't even reach 20GB.

But when many regular every-month 500GB+ downloaders pile in, the whole structure falls down. So instead of the 100GB being a guide-line it becomes rigid. Or probably reduced. Or traffic management or simple congestion ensue.

And whatever any heavy downloader says, there is absolutely no way 500GB regularly per month is data which is ever going to fulfil any useful purpose. There just isn't time in the rest of the downloaders' lives. So what on earth is it done for?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Sat 24-Jul-10 20:41:26
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Schrodingers_Cat] [link to this post]
 
Personally I find nauseating the type who come on with "I only use 7gb a month and YOU are cheating everyone else ".......and who then in the very next breath brag about having a 7.2mbit connection..........while here's ME with my poxy connection that seldom gets above 1.5mbit ...and it's somehow unfair that I use this LESS THAN OFFICIALLY RECOGNISED BROADBAND SPEED to download more.

WHY is if fair that someone else gets 7.2mb and I only get 1.5mb for the same price......yet it's unfair if I download more ??
Well 1.5Mbps is 21% of 7.2Mbps.

7GB is 21% of 33GB.

I'm sure nobody would object your downloading 33GB.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 24-Jul-10 20:42:14)

Moderator billford
(moderator) Sat 24-Jul-10 20:52:10
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ?? *DELETED*


[re: Schrodingers_Cat] [link to this post]
 
Mind the language please... and don't use asterisks to try and evade the swear filter.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

[email protected]
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mil1401
(member) Sun 25-Jul-10 05:36:40
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GMAN98:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by GMAN98:
He's complaining that he can't download 700Gb in a month without being penalised.
On the contrary he seems to me to be saying he can.


So what is he complaining about then? smile

I'm not complaining about my broadband connection, in fact I'm extremely delighted with it and will shortly be entering my fourth year as a BT option 3 customer.

The only complaint I have is with people on this forum who are hell-bent on dragging everyone back to an internet connection from circa 1999 and who have nothing better to do with their time but to stick their noses into what other people do with their internet connection.

_______________________________________________

Chris

The first residential broadband customer in South Scotland......online since 29th August 2001 grin

Wirenet ---> PlusNet ---> RedHotAnt ---> BigBlueSky ---> NTL ---> BT ---> Zen ---> BT 8Mb Option 3

BT ULTRA user
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Sun 25-Jul-10 08:52:55
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Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: orly] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by orly:
How is 100GB/month abusing a residential connection?
It's abusing it because the current infrastructure is not designed to handle it. RobertoS has already posted the real cost of providing that kind of bandwidth. My analogy with the village well (sadly ignored) is another way of looking at it. Someone downloading those kind of amounts of data is putting a disproportionate strain on a shared resource. It's not difficult to find out how telecommunications works and a little knowledge of how any service operates should shed further light on it. No-one that understands it would be surprised at the limitations.

It might be the fault of the ISPs for advertising 'unlimited'. They ought to have known that a small number of their users would actually believe that and/or be unable to control themselves. Still - all ISPs have T&Cs and it's those that we sign up to. Advertising is just pointless drivel that no-one should ever take at face value - it has no legal standing. I'm pretty sure that all ISP's T&Cs make it clear that the service is contended and have clauses that say heavy usage may be frowned upon.

As for what happens when a user gets carried away - well that's up to the ISP. They can put up with it and take a financial hit, pass the cost onto other customers or take action against the heavy user. As long as your ISP says nothing then carry on. OTOH if you're interested in being a 'good, responsible' netizen then where possible move unattended use (ie;large downloads) to overnight or working hours. Most residential ISPs have plenty of capacity going spare then and you're actually doing them a favour by soaking it up.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile

Edited by Andrue (Sun 25-Jul-10 08:57:37)

Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Sun 25-Jul-10 09:00:13
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: digiscott] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by digiscott:
Ban the use of unlimited in advertising unless it truely is unlimited and no penalties of any kind are invoked for supposed overuse. Remove the vague terms in fup so that the policy is clear and does not allow the isp to change the rules when it wants.
Advertising is just fluff and bumpf. If you believe that drivel then it's your own fault. A better idea might be to ban people that sign up for services without reading the Terms and Conditions.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Sun 25-Jul-10 09:04:29
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mil1401:
The only complaint I have is with people on this forum who are hell-bent on dragging everyone back to an internet connection from circa 1999 and who have nothing better to do with their time but to stick their noses into what other people do with their internet connection.
The OP invited comments about his usage. We have responded with our opinions. We are also trying to explain how things work so that the OP (and others such as yourself, perhaps) understand why downloading large amounts of data is a problem. Both those actions are what public discussion forums are all about.

However I do agree with RobertoS. You seem to have been attacked somewhat unfairly by some thread members.

FWIW my comments to you are simply because of your sweeping suggestion that anyone not using their connection heavily is doing it wrong. I feel it's the opposite way around and by encouraging others to do what you do you are effectively sabotaging the service. Hence my comments that if your ISP doesn't mind you then fair enough.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile

Edited by Andrue (Sun 25-Jul-10 09:08:52)

Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Sun 25-Jul-10 09:14:31
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In reply to a post by digiscott:
Ban the use of unlimited in advertising unless it truely is unlimited and no penalties of any kind are invoked for supposed overuse. Remove the vague terms in fup so that the policy is clear and does not allow the isp to change the rules when it wants.
Advertising is just fluff and bumpf. If you believe that drivel then it's your own fault. A better idea might be to ban people that sign up for services without reading the Terms and Conditions.
I disagree there.

The ASA should not allow the word "Unlimited" in adverts when it is patently untrue.

Over many years contracts for nearly all Goods and Services have had weasel words in the small print disallowed. This should be no different. Unlimited is a totally unambiguous word and not open to any other interpretation than what it says.

The mere presence of an FUP/AUP that mentions the amount downloaded directly contradicts it. It should therefore not be allowed.

Given that the ASA does allow it for some incomprehensible reason, this thread is supposed to be about the fairness of 100GB FUPs, and in view of the particular forum the apparent BT FUP figure.

As far as I'm aware that number does not appear in the BT T & Cs anyway. As such, as has been commented upon, the FUP merely allows them to impose arbitrary and inconsistent restrictions on specific individuals.

That is unfair. Whatever our personal opinions of the usage desired by those individuals.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Sun 25-Jul-10 12:14:35
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
As far as I'm aware that number does not appear in the BT T & Cs anyway. As such, as has been commented upon, the FUP merely allows them to impose arbitrary and inconsistent restrictions on specific individuals.
So at least you know. My point would be that 'unlimited' probably doesn't appear in the T&C therefore it's irrelevant.

What you're left with is T&C that impose an arbitrary limit. At least you know there is a limit. I'm not saying that T&C are always good. OTOH they are what define the service you are paying for. Advertising is meaningless.

Companies always lie but at least T&C have legal implications. You stand a chance if you argue about those. Arguing about advertising is pointless.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile

Edited by Andrue (Sun 25-Jul-10 12:17:47)

Standard User TJNewton
(regular) Sun 25-Jul-10 12:34:27
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: kial] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kial:
If BT decided I was a very heavy user what would be the consequences?


If it helps below is the email you get when you get to 80GB.

Fair Usage Policy: your speed may be restricted
at peak times

Dear Customer,

We thought you'd like to know that your broadband usage in May is now above 80GB.

In accordance with our Fair Usage Policy, and to protect the online experience of all our customers, if your monthly broadband usage goes over 100GB, we'll restrict your broadband speed at peak times (typically this is between 5pm and 12am, but these times may change depending on the demands on the network) to 1Mbps for 30 days.

Please note: your service won't be affected in any other way - we'll restrict only your speed, not the amount you can upload and download.

We'll email you again to let you know if your usage exceeds 100GB. For more information, please see our Fair Usage Policy.





What does this mean for me?

You have received this email because your broadband usage this month means you are a very heavy user (which is typically less than 1 per cent of all customers). If your usage has unexpectedly increased it may be for several reasons. If you have downloaded a peer-to-peer (P2P) client to your PC then your usage levels can be affected by other P2P users uploading files from your PC, you may need to adjust the settings or remove the client. It is also important to check that your wireless connection is password protected. If you suspect that your password is no longer secure then this should be changed.

You can keep track of your usage by downloading a free, independent, usage monitor from the web and installing it on your PC. This will only report the usage driven by that machine but it will provide an indication of your usage levels.



Best wishes,

BT Total Broadband team

BTBroadband MAX (?) DSL

Re-record not fade away............................
Standard User GMAN98
(learned) Sun 25-Jul-10 13:11:37
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
Ok mil, I must confused you with the OP... I apologise so in that case how are you managing to download so much? Don't you get any warning emails?
Standard User MarkHampshire
(member) Sun 25-Jul-10 13:14:50
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Completely agree. This issue also came up when I was looking at data allowances for mobile usage. I checked all the providers websites. The only one to clearly state a limit was Three (150MB, I think) - the others indicated a FUP was in place, but even the FUP did not, in itself, quote any limit. The link to the FUP on the Vodafone website was broken anyway. The Tesco FUP was about as vague as it gets.

Hence the customer is told "unlimited" in one breath, and in the next, "there is a limit, but we won't tell you what it is". Can you imagine a savings account where the customer is not told the interest rate they're earning until they withdraw their money and close the account?

The "all you can eat for £5" is a good analogy in that any restaurant running this knows full well that at some point a group of people is going to come in and eat until they actually throw up at which point they'll probably stop eating, or the restauarant will close for the day, but there's no such finality to downloading - it just goes on and on.

I do find it incredible that the cost of supplying 100GB is about £100 - there has got to be something very wrong there. For my part I'd love to see it being possible to stream HDTV over broadband in an unlimited and on-demand fashion, but our broadband infrastructure is so far behind that this isn't even going to be possible for many users anyway given connection speeds.

But this is becoming more of an issue as some people can now get those speeds (cabled, or very very near to an exchange with ADSL2).

The caps with FTTC are going to really highlight this issue; VM don't have many 50Mbps subscribers anyway as yet and should be thinking about how they're going to manage contention with 400Mbps services and getting the terms and pricing right.

Personally I'd rather have, say, 50Mbps with a 50GB/mo fixed cap, than 5Mbps with no cap, but that fits *my* usage pattern and not everybody's.

In summary, though, "unlimited" is binary. Either it's unlimited, or it is not.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User shtu
(experienced) Sun 25-Jul-10 21:16:14
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GMAN98:
Ok mil, I must confused you with the OP... I apologise so in that case how are you managing to download so much? Don't you get any warning emails?


Don't expect a straight answer to that any time soon. laugh
Standard User mil1401
(member) Sun 25-Jul-10 21:36:52
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: shtu] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by shtu:
In reply to a post by GMAN98:
Ok mil, I must confused you with the OP... I apologise so in that case how are you managing to download so much? Don't you get any warning emails?


Don't expect a straight answer to that any time soon. laugh

Maybe you could explain to the forum why you have nothing better to do with your time but to stick your nose into other people's business.

Who are you anyway? Are you self-appointed to the broadband police or did you have to apply for the job?

_______________________________________________

Chris

The first residential broadband customer in South Scotland......online since 29th August 2001 grin

Wirenet ---> PlusNet ---> RedHotAnt ---> BigBlueSky ---> NTL ---> BT ---> Zen ---> BT 8Mb Option 3

BT ULTRA user
Standard User shtu
(experienced) Sun 25-Jul-10 21:52:48
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
I take it you won't be answering GMAN either?

You have come onto a public forum, several times, and posted up some figures that are way beyond normal domestic use. You'll notice I've never criticised that level of use. I'm genuinely interested in what can generate that level of usage without storing or using the data. I told you that 9 months ago.

But we know you'll never say, instead preferring to resort to name calling. Again.

If you genuinely want to be so secretive, try not posting stuff on forums. smile
Standard User mil1401
(member) Sun 25-Jul-10 21:57:06
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: shtu] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by shtu:
I take it you won't be answering GMAN either?

You have come onto a public forum, several times, and posted up some figures that are way beyond normal domestic use. You'll notice I've never criticised that level of use. I'm genuinely interested in what can generate that level of usage without storing or using the data. I told you that 9 months ago.

But we know you'll never say, instead preferring to resort to name calling. Again.

If you genuinely want to be so secretive, try not posting stuff on forums. smile

I ask the question again.

Have you nothing better to do with your time but to stick your nose into someone else's business?

_______________________________________________

Chris

The first residential broadband customer in South Scotland......online since 29th August 2001 grin

Wirenet ---> PlusNet ---> RedHotAnt ---> BigBlueSky ---> NTL ---> BT ---> Zen ---> BT 8Mb Option 3

BT ULTRA user
Standard User shtu
(experienced) Sun 25-Jul-10 22:23:48
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
Meh, it's Sunday night, telly's rubbish.

You see, when people make spectacular claims, it's normal for them to be questioned. 'tis the nature of the world. If there were no enquiring minds, sorting the wheat from the chaff, we would all still be in caves claiming that this "fire" stuff was a bad idea.

Your particular set of claims is so unusual it is always going to be questioned - at least three different people have asked you on this thread alone.

I poked no nose. You have repeatedly chosen to make your supposedly spectacular usage a matter of public record (and with the apparent contradictions in your statements, a potentially interesting use case), and then swung wildly at anyone who (naturally) asked you about it. Me in particular for some reason.

Strange behaviour, to put it mildly.

Here's a tip - if you don't want people to ask questions, try not writing about it on the internet. As before, I'll assume it's either made-up, or at best torrents, which you don't want to admit to. Fair enough.
Standard User mil1401
(member) Sun 25-Jul-10 22:32:51
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: shtu] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by shtu:
Here's a tip - if you don't want people to ask questions, try not writing about it on the internet.

If I wanted a tip from you...I would have asked for it.
As before, I'll assume it's either made-up, or at best torrents, which you don't want to admit to.


Do you have any evidence it's made-up or torrents? If you do please present it to the forum.

Either put up or shut up.

_______________________________________________

Chris

The first residential broadband customer in South Scotland......online since 29th August 2001 grin

Wirenet ---> PlusNet ---> RedHotAnt ---> BigBlueSky ---> NTL ---> BT ---> Zen ---> BT 8Mb Option 3

BT ULTRA user
Standard User shtu
(experienced) Sun 25-Jul-10 23:01:28
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mil1401:
In reply to a post by shtu:
Here's a tip - if you don't want people to ask questions, try not writing about it on the internet.

If I wanted a tip from you...I would have asked for it.
As before, I'll assume it's either made-up, or at best torrents, which you don't want to admit to.


Do you have any evidence it's made-up or torrents? If you do please present it to the forum.

Either put up or shut up.


It's the internet. Opinions are freely offered, and mine hasn't been put forward with the "did you spill my pint?" aggression.

Evidence. A word normally used in court. When people have been up to no good.

Ultimately, you made claims, I asked about them. That's it.

For those who haven't been reading, a quick summary.

Mil claims,

I used 700GB+ in one month.
I don't use the data.
I don't store the data.

I ask,

So what are you doing then?

Mil then strops off, avoiding the question with a variety of tactics aimed at moving the argument into tit-for-tat insults.

In two different threads.

Several months apart.

Yet again folks, I'll bow out of this and leave you all to draw your own conclusions.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Sun 25-Jul-10 23:10:12
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Advertising is not contractual. It's the Contract that governs your relationship with the supplier. Advertising is just "come hither".

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU BB
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Sun 25-Jul-10 23:30:45
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Advertising is not contractual. It's the Contract that governs your relationship with the supplier. Advertising is just "come hither".
In that case the ASA can also be abolished as part of the Government cuts. Think of all the legal fees BT, Virgin and Sky will also save, so they can reduce their prices.

Won't do a lot for the sea-going boat industry though. No lawyers with money to splash around.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Sun 25-Jul-10 23:47:52
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I never said that and it doesn't follow!

There's still every good reason to legislate against lying and misleading statements in ads. even tho' they form no part in the ensuing contract. They could trap the unwary in unsuitable deals.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU BB
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Sun 25-Jul-10 23:52:24
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
There's still every good reason to legislate against lying and misleading statements in ads. even tho' they form no part in the ensuing contract. They could trap the unwary in unsuitable deals.
Isn't that what the thread and discussion is about? Isn't that the point I made to which you took exception?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Sun 25-Jul-10 23:58:34
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
No! No! I took no exception!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU BB
Standard User Gammawolf
(newbie) Mon 26-Jul-10 01:06:41
Print Post

Re: Is 100gb REALLY 'Un'Fair Use ??


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
Pretty easy to get to 100GB a month with a 5 person family, with 3 children, mulitple games consoles, 2 daughters that watch stuff on youtube and the likes. One son that gets games with steam. Everyone uses iplayer a bit. I have an MSDNAA subscription so download a bit off that. All in all its not "unfair" for an avg of 20gb per person per month. Or what do they expect me to do, have 5 lines going to my house or something? :|
Moderator Sadoldman
(moderator) Mon 26-Jul-10 07:06:59
Print Post

Re: Can we please stop the flaming?


[re: mil1401] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mil1401:
I ask the question again.
Have you nothing better to do with your time but to stick your nose into someone else's business?


I am closing this as it will go round in circles. At the end of the day the issue is between the user and the ISP.

As for the above...you cannot post claiming extremely high usage, far more than average by a long way, and not expect people to comment and speculate.

If you want to keep your usage private, don't discuss it on our BBS.

Closed

Sadoldman

Just a tad sad..a wee bit old...wink

[email protected]
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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