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Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Fri 07-Jan-11 17:05:25
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Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[link to this post]
 
I'm hoping someone can help with this as it's becoming unbareable!

For about the last week now our internet connection has been almost unusable due to insanely high ping times 24/7 and dropping packets. See below for an example:

Pinging google.co.uk [173.194.37.104] with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=2340ms TTL=52
Request timed out.
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=482ms TTL=52

Ping statistics for 173.194.37.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 2, Lost = 2 (50% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 482ms, Maximum = 2340ms, Average = 1411ms


Here's the tracert results to the same address:

Tracing route to google.co.uk [173.194.37.104]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 87 ms 99 ms 99 ms api.home [192.168.1.254]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 3848 ms 1592 ms 43 ms 217.47.89.161
4 3701 ms 50 ms 3604 ms 213.1.69.134
5 * * 1359 ms 217.32.24.234
6 1351 ms 3297 ms 33 ms 217.32.24.46
7 170 ms 43 ms 1173 ms 217.32.24.182
8 127 ms 165 ms 153 ms acc2-10GigE-0-1-0-5.l-far.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.1
59.249.210]
9 168 ms 31 ms 131 ms core1-te0-6-1-0.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.24
9.137]
10 177 ms 37 ms 128 ms core4te-0/1/0/0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159
.254.54]
11 179 ms * * 195.99.125.78
12 * * 867 ms 209.85.252.76
13 * * 866 ms 209.85.251.58
14 * * 873 ms lhr14s02-in-f104.1e100.net [173.194.37.104]

Trace complete.


We're using the BT HomeHub 1.0 and these are the connection stats from the router:

DSL Connection

Link Information

Uptime: 6 days, 8:12:39
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 7,616
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 539.58 / 4.73
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.0 / 29.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.0 / 6.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 106,404
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 308
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 281
Line Profile: Interleaved


The reason I believe we've got a stuck bRAS profile is because after performing numerous BTw line tests at the same times daily for the past few days, it reports our IP Profile as being at 4000 Kbps as you can see in the screenshot here.

Where as you can quite clearly see from the router stats above, it's synced at 7616 Kbps with no re-syncs or disconnections and what was a stable line with a 6.0 SNR, which should put us on IP Profile 6500 and we should be receiving speeds of up to 6.5Meg (This would be a dream, after having a stable 17Meg/1.3Meg on ADSL+ up in Coventry for the past 2 years!) but we're only receiving ~3.5Meg and that's if we're lucky, and those insanely high ping times which renders the internet frustratingly useless!

I've checked all of the filters and replaced them in the house to no avail. I've tried wired, wireless and the test socket. Nothing remedies it, which tells me it's not our end. But, I don't know what to do next which is why I'm here. If anyone could offer some advice, correct me if I'm wrong, or point me in the right direction I'd gratefully appreciate it because I don't want to be sent around the houses on the telephone all day.

Thank you in advance!
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 07-Jan-11 18:00:37
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
Have you tried switching the router off for 30 minutes?

This can clear the PPP session at the exchange and then the restart sometimes triggers profile updates. I don't know if it might also sort out the latency, but in your position I would certainly try it.

Also if I'm not mistaken the uptime your router is showing is its switched on time, not the current length of connection.

As the profile rise expected is under 50%, the time to wait can often exceed three days and sometimes take the full five frown, but from what you say you are past that period anyway.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Fri 07-Jan-11 18:53:50
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi RobertoS, thanks for your reply.

You're correct that the uptime shown is the length of time the router has been switched on for, but it's pretty close to the length of time the router has been connected. Probably within ~60 seconds give or take.

Previous to the 6 days uptime shown in the stats I quoted, I had performed a BTw speedtest which stated our IP profile was at 4000, when it should have been at 6500 given the sync speed and other stats (The router had been up for weeks, without a single re-sync or dropped connection) This is what originally sparked my suspicions of a stuck profile.

After the speedtest, I did switch the router off for just over half an hour, hoping to trigger a profile update and clear the session at the exchange. The router re-synced at what is shown above, and the other stats, barring the errors have been the same for the full 6 days of uptime, with no change whatsoever in the IP profile (I've tested it daily) which still leads me to think it's stuck frown

I waited until today to allow for the full 5 days, and the ping strangely got worse, and worse over those 5/6 days. The download speed has remained ~3.5meg max and the upload also has remained at around a max of ~380kbps whilst the BTw speedtest has always indicated that our line is capable of over 7meg down, and the routers sync speed and SNR suggests the same.

Strangely we did have a problem with our phones a few days ago, whereby we had no dial tone for about 2 hours but they still rang when called, only you couldn't hear anyone from either end, but then it magically returned. At that time there was no apparent effect on the internet. Perhaps there was a line fault which has hung around?

I'm going to try once more to clear the session at the exchange, and leave it for 5 days. If no change to the profile after that, then I don't know. Probably a few very long frustratingly repetative calls to BT in an attempt to rectifiy it, but I can't see that going very well from previous experience. I guess I was hoping a BT staff member would see this and have a suggestion or answer. Here's hoping!

Edited by ClubLife (Fri 07-Jan-11 18:57:20)


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 07-Jan-11 19:03:00
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
Nasty frown.

As you've already done what I suggested I don't think doing it again will help.

If you have an NTE5 master socket then try a (preferably corded) phone into the test socket, on the wall at the back in this pic, and try the quiet line test. 17070 Option 2.

It should be silent.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Fri 07-Jan-11 21:37:23
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I decided to turn the router off, and on after 5 minutes to see if it remedied anything. Strangely after turning it back on, the ping speeds have dramatically improved, at least for the time being:
Pinging google.co.uk [173.194.37.104] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=52
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=52
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=52
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=52

Ping statistics for 173.194.37.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 28ms, Maximum = 41ms, Average = 32ms

Tracert results:
Tracing route to google.co.uk [173.194.37.104]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 95 ms 99 ms 99 ms api.home [192.168.1.254]
2 26 ms 25 ms 26 ms 217.47.88.250
3 26 ms 25 ms 25 ms 217.47.89.161
4 28 ms 27 ms 28 ms 213.1.69.134
5 36 ms 26 ms 27 ms 217.32.24.234
6 27 ms 27 ms 31 ms 217.32.24.62
7 27 ms 27 ms 26 ms 217.32.24.182
8 29 ms 28 ms 27 ms acc1-10GigE-0-7-0-5.l-far.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.1
59.249.214]
9 67 ms 55 ms 36 ms core1-te0-13-0-6.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.2
49.153]
10 28 ms 28 ms 32 ms core4te-0-3-1-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [62.172.
102.25]
11 29 ms 44 ms 28 ms 195.99.125.82
12 30 ms 29 ms 29 ms 209.85.252.76
13 37 ms 28 ms 29 ms 209.85.251.58
14 29 ms 27 ms 27 ms lhr14s02-in-f104.1e100.net [173.194.37.104]

Trace complete.

All very strange. The router's synced at the same speed again aswell, and the SNR has raised slightly by .5 dB, but that doesn't suprise me and I expect that'll lower over the next 24 hours to 6 again.
DSL Connection
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 2:51:20
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 7,616
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 11.69 / 75.28
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.0 / 29.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.0 / 6.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 224
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3
Line Profile: Interleaved

BTw speedtest shows we're still on IP profile 4000 though, hopefully this'll raise over the next 3-5 days, but at this point I'm not that hopeful. One thing I've always wondered is, if the router syncs at a speed which falls inside one IP profile from the beginning, shouldn't the exchange set you on that profile immediately? I thought that was how the line training worked, hence you would see an increase in sync speed gradually over the training period, and the IP profile would follow until the max stable speed is determined?

I'll definately perform the quiet line test tomorrow, thanks for that suggestion! Especially after that strange loss of dial tone. It'll give me a reason to pop into town tomorrow and pick up a corded handset.

Still, if the results of that are normal, I'll be stumped!

Edit: We just lost the dial tone on our phone again, which we only realised because someone was trying to call the landline, and then called a mobile to inform us they couldn't get through.

When attempting to report the fault on BT's website and performing their 'line test' it indicated they could detect no problem with the line, and suggested a faulty phone. So, without a corded handset I really can't confirm or deny this just yet. Strange how they still offered the option to call out an engineer. Surely if they've found no fault, there'd be no need? Hmm! The internet is still running smoothly though and ping times have infact hit an all time low of 32ms lol! Something is definately up with the line I'd say.

I'll report back tomorrow with my findings from the quiet line test from the test socket. I'm hoping there is a fault now, which will explain all of this!

Edited by ClubLife (Fri 07-Jan-11 22:24:53)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 07-Jan-11 22:26:46
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
I think that is very encouraging. You have shifted some sort of problem, so with luck the rest of the system will sort itself out as you say.

Just try the quiet line test with your existing phone, without disconnecting anything. It should be silent even with broadband connected. If it is there is no need to buy a corded phone for the purpose.

I suggest you leave things stable for (up to) 5 days to see if the profile does rise.

You are a victim of the myths about the initial training period, though you understand IP Profile to some extent. The line always sync's as fast as it can. The IP Profile does not affect sync, only the sync-time target noise margin does that.

Have a read of my page on the subject.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Sat 08-Jan-11 14:23:11
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Well I've just done a quiet line test using the test socket (Situated on the ground floor of a 3 storey town house) and the line was silent, no clicks or beeps, nothing.

Strangely, since lastnight we've had no dial tone on the house phones. We've got a base unit which is plugged into a phone socket on the first floor in the lounge, and two seperate handsets which don't require plugging in to a phone socket (One in the kitchen on the ground floor, and the other in the master bedroom on the first floor), just a mains plug for their chargers. None of them get a dial tone, and I'm assuming this is because they feed off of the signal from the base unit in the lounge. (These are all wireless handsets btw)

I just tried the corded handset in the two phone sockets upstairs (One in the lounge which the sky box was plugged into also, and the main base unit for the telephones) and the other in the master bedroom. Neither of them have a dial tone which explains why there's no dial tone on any of the wireless handsets, but there is a dial tone on the master socket downstairs?

This would lead me to believe, either the wiring between the master socket and the slave sockets is damaged, or a fuse has gone in both of the slave sockets? (I don't know if there is such a thing?)

What confuses me is all of the handsets were working yesterday morning, but stopped working lastnight when I reported on here. This would lead me to believe something happened to the wiring/sockets on the first floor lastnight. But, as I mentioned in my previous post, we lost the dialtone on all of the wireless handsets just over a week ago too, but they then started working a few hours later with no problems, apart from the obvious ping increase on the broadband. But now the ping has returned to normal on the broadband, infact it's even better than before at an average of ~27ms, there is a dial tone on the master socket, but no dial tone on either of the slave sockets for 10+ hours.

When I try to report a fault on BT's website, and click the button to 'perform the test' it says there is no fault on the line, and that it is possibly an internal problem. But it still offers the option to call out an engineer.

So, I guess my questions are, do I need an engineer, or can I just replace the faceplates on the slave sockets upstairs? How do I determine if it's a fuse that's gone in them? Or if it's the wiring from the master to the slaves? Also, would a problem with the wiring/fuse cause the problems we've been experiencing with the broadband? I'm assuming any type of problem with the phoneline past the master socket would cause some sort of interference with the broadband, but I have no expertise in this area unfortunately frown If I call out a BT engineer, I'm guessing we'd be charged due to it being the internal wiring, past the master socket?

Any advice from people with such knowledge would be gratefully appreciated before I start forking out for callout charges etc. And thank you for your help so far RobertoS! Your website is full of extremely interesting info (Atleast to me tongue)

Edited by ClubLife (Sat 08-Jan-11 14:28:01)

Standard User ggremlin
(member) Sat 08-Jan-11 16:06:55
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
This would lead me to believe, either the wiring between the master socket and the slave sockets is damaged,

this is most likely, and the first place to look is the back of the master faceplate, where extentions should be connected.
bt will charge since it works at the test socket.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 08-Jan-11 16:20:04
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
As ggremlin says. First check the connections on the back of the master faceplate. You need T2 and T5 connected, others are best disconnected, but not touching any other terminal and not tucked behind the test socket where the incoming line is connected.

Note (and later post) the wire colours on T2 and T5. Then check the same colours are on T2 and T5 at the extensions. Make sure they don't swap over! So if Blue with white stripe is on master T2 then it should go to T2 at the extension, and the same with whatever is on T5 >> extension T5. Not T2 >> T5.

It does sound like a wire disconnected.

If you find one that is, the proper tool (called a Krone tool or IDC connection tool) to insert it costs a quid or so from DIY stores. The edge of a credit card may work but isn't recommended. You don't strip insulation, you push an insulated wire between the terminal jaws so it cuts through the insulation.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Sat 08-Jan-11 18:23:10
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
where are you?

do you know if you are fed overhead or underground?

is it a new or old house?

do you have a nte5 and if so do you get dial tone at that but not anywhere else?

if you can answer these ill assist further.

ta

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 08-Jan-11 19:09:23
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: andyboygsi] [link to this post]
 
tongue
It's better if you click Reply on a post by the person you are replying to smile. If you look at the headers, or try Threaded mode you will see you replied to me.

As some people set their options to receive email notifications of replies, replying to the wrong person has two unwanted effects.

First, the person replied to gets a nuisance email. Second, if the person you were addressing comes ASAP when they get a notification email then it could be a while before they see your post, because they will think no-one has replied.

The OP did say earlier they had tried the test socket.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Sat 08-Jan-11 20:12:29
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
i have neve experienced this on a forum.

why isnt there a simple reply button at the bottom like pretty much all other forums

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 08-Jan-11 20:15:49
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: andyboygsi] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by andyboygsi:
i have neve experienced this on a forum.

why isnt there a simple reply button at the bottom like pretty much all other forums
Why are other forums not as flexible as this one?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Sat 08-Jan-11 20:18:45
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
your losing me, im not really interested in a big drawn out discssion regarding it.

i have had a long day in the snow fitting fttx so not got the energy lol

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 08-Jan-11 20:39:59
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: andyboygsi] [link to this post]
 
smile
When you've a spare minute, save BT some money by coming and turning off the cooling and powering down our FTTC cabinet, as no-one is yet connected to it and BTW aren't scheduling a date.

It's called a business plan tongue.

If I was one of the guys pushed to install it through Nov/Dec I think I would super-glue the lock.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Sat 08-Jan-11 21:30:35
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Evening guys. After following your instructions RobertoS and removing the faceplates, noting down which terminals were connected and by which coloured wire. I did a quick google and learnt something new which explains why the extensions have no dialtone tongue It's very embarrassing though but as I said, I didn't know, but atleast I do now!

I've had the router plugged into the test socket this whole time, and have just learnt that when you remove the bottom half of the master socket, it disconnects all of the extensions tongue Whoops! Glad I learnt that now rather than later though! Although that doesn't explain why we lost dialtone to all phones the week before, when I hadn't been anywhere near any of the sockets! Hmm the mind boggles!

All of the wires match up on each socket colour for colour. However, there is an extra wire connected on all of the sockets on T3 which is white with a blue stripe. Should this be removed? Will it do any harm being connected?

With my mistake discovered though, it still doesn't explain the insanely high ping which was getting worse and worse day by day. Although that seems to have been rectified by restarting the router, I'm worried it'll be a reoccurring event. And also why the router is syncing happily at 7616kbps but the IP profile is sticking at 4000kpbs. That said, I've decided I'm going to leave the router plugged into the test socket for the full 5 days to see if the IP profile changes in accordance with the sync speed, and I've plugged the base phone into the filter downstairs too so all of the phones now work just fine.

Would having interleaving switched off help at all? I've read it'll help lower latency so long as our line is stable, and from the stats we've always had I would think it should be fine to be switched off. I'm wondering if it would help shift what appears to be the stuck profile though as well. Any ideas?

I wish they'd upgrade our exchange! It's not been touched since 2006. Yet if we lived half a mile in any other direction (Barring south or we'd be in the sea! lol), we'd be on an unbundled exchange frown

Thank you all for your help and suggestions so far, apologies for wasting time by being a pillock!

Edited by ClubLife (Sat 08-Jan-11 21:53:08)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 08-Jan-11 22:00:06
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
If you gently detach the wire on T3 at the master that should certainly help the stabilty of the line and lower the (already low) error rates. Best not to cut it as the next occupant may need it connected.

Unusual for it to be the colour it is, but that doesn't really matter. However, it does raise the question of what are on T2 and T5.

The cable contains twisted pairs, so one pair for instance is Blue/white with, IIRC, a blue one. If T2 has a wire from one pair, and T5 a wire from the other pair, that's bad. T2 and T5 should always be a pair. So what colours are they please?

The screwed up ping could just be some firmware getting messed up in the system. Unless it comes back I should just forget it. What we are hoping is the same "blip" was also holding the profile down.

I would say from the stats you have posted you would be fine with interleaving switched off. On Fast Path you would probably also sync at 8128kbps instead of 7616kbps.

I have a feeling turning it off triggers a DSLAM reset, so could indeed cause the profile to rise, but the reset would be the reason, not the Fast Path itself. A sync rise to 8128 should also trigger a 7150 profile which is another stimulus to the system.

As for what you called yourself, indeed tongue. I have never made a silly mistake about anything ever in my long life tongue tongue ! [cough] [choke].

Seriously, why should you have known that? It's obvious once you know, but you were looking for and thinking about something else. Don't worry about it.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Sat 08-Jan-11 22:15:50
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
That would be excellent if it would increase the sync speed even more so, and hopefully force the profile to 'unstick' so to speak. The ping since the restart of the router has astonished me, it's now down to around ~26ms, if turning interleaving off would improve that, I'll look forward to getting my PS3 back from Coventry lol! I'll wait until the 5 days are up before doing anything regarding that though.

The cables in each terminal are as follows:
Master Socket

T2 = Dark Blue w/ White Stripe
T3 = White w/ Green Stripe
T4 = Nothing
T5 = Orange w/ White Stripe

Extension 1 (Lounge)

T1 = Nothing
T2 = Dark Blue w/ White Stripe
T3 = White w/ Green Stripe
T4 = Nothing
T5 = Orange w/ White Stripe
T6 = Nothing

Extension 2 (Master Bedroom)

T1 = Nothing
T2 = Dark Blue w/ White Stripe
T3 = White w/ Green Stripe
T4 = Nothing
T5 = Orange w/ White Stripe
T6 = Nothing

So is it definately safe to remove the cable from T3? Just out of curiosity, what does T3 do? Is that the elusive bell wire everyone talks about?

Haha, thanks for the reassurance wink I'm usually quite a logical thinker and a stickler for detail, but I surpassed myself with that one! We're all human though smile

Edit: I just had a thought and went to double-check. The wire in T3 on the master socket looks more White w/ blue stripe, but on the others looks more like a green stripe (Perhaps I'm slightly colour blind?! lol). Which would lead me to think the wire in T3 should be in T5, and the wire in T5 should be in T3 (Which could then be removed)? Although surely the telephone line nor broadband would work correctly if they'd been put in the wrong terminals?

Edited by ClubLife (Sat 08-Jan-11 22:23:35)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 08-Jan-11 22:57:06
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
I'd take another look in daylight at the colours re T3.

As for T2 and T5, my knowledge is limited but I think what you have there is split pairs. In other words Blue/white and White/blue is a pair, and Orange/white White/orange is a pair.

The wires in each pair are twisted round each other, and this reduces interference. You seem to have one wire from one pair and one from another pair. Works, but not ideal.

With luck someone with more knowledge will confirm that or say I'm wrong.

T3 is indeed the ring/bell wire terminal. T2 and T5 are the signal terminals. No way should T2 or T5 be connected to T3.

Bedtime for me smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Sun 09-Jan-11 00:12:19
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
it is indeed split.

ill tell you to sort it tom

night

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Sun 09-Jan-11 11:22:43
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
dis all the wires of for the extensions. at the faceplate and all extension sockets.

goto b and q and buy there little disposable krone tool, youll find it in the electrical section next to the phone stuff.

then pick out pair one, the blue/white, terminate this on 2 and 5 on the faceplate of the nte then at the sockets. only 2 and 5 though.

if you get stuck 5 seconds on google will find you how to terminate the sockets, then hey presto your internal is sorted.

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 09-Jan-11 12:43:38
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
Krone/IDC tools look like this, so you know what you are looking for.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Sun 09-Jan-11 16:25:30
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: andyboygsi] [link to this post]
 
So I only need to remove the bottom half of the master socket, then connect the cables at the terminals on the back of the piece which comes away? Or do I need to remove the next bit of the socket as well to get right behind the master socket? (I thought you weren't allowed to go further than the removable bottom section of the faceplate?)

I've been and picked up a krone tool from B&Q, bit more expensive for a flimsy piece of plastic than I expected, but I'll invest in a proper one online.

When you say pick out pair one, I'm slightly confused. There is a dark blue cable with small white dots/stripes about every 2 inches along it which is in terminal 2 on every socket. Then there is the white cable with blue dots/stripes about every 2 inches along it which is in terminal 3 of every socket. Are they pair one? And if so, does it matter which one goes in T2 and which one goes in T5?

Am I ok to completely remove the orange cable with white dots/stripes along it every 2 inches or so from T5 on every socket? Or just the master socket?

I'm just waiting for the camera battery to charge so I can show you exactly what I'm working with, as I want to make sure I know exactly what I'm doing before I start fiddling tongue
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 09-Jan-11 16:48:02
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ClubLife:
So I only need to remove the bottom half of the master socket, then connect the cables at the terminals on the back of the piece which comes away?
Yes.
Or do I need to remove the next bit of the socket as well to get right behind the master socket? (I thought you weren't allowed to go further than the removable bottom section of the faceplate?)
Don't go there. You are right, not allowed.
I've been and picked up a krone tool from B&Q, bit more expensive for a flimsy piece of plastic than I expected, but I'll invest in a proper one online.
That should be fine for occasional use.
When you say pick out pair one, I'm slightly confused. There is a dark blue cable with small white dots/stripes about every 2 inches along it which is in terminal 2 on every socket. Then there is the white cable with blue dots/stripes about every 2 inches along it which is in terminal 3 of every socket. Are they pair one? And if so, does it matter which one goes in T2 and which one goes in T5?
Great. Leave T2 connections as they are. Gently remove the connections in T3 and T5 at all sockets. Connect the White with blue to T5 at all sockets - you should of course have all extensions coming direct to the master, but if one is daisy-chained off another do the same. Remember - do not strip any insulation off the wires, just push an insulated part in with the krone tool and let it cut through the insulation. If you have stripped bits already I suggest you snip them off, so the bare wires can't touch anything else.
Am I ok to completely remove the orange cable with white dots/stripes along it every 2 inches or so from T5 on every socket? Or just the master socket?
Disconnect and just leave neatly curled, not connected to or touching anything. At all sockets.
I'm just waiting for the camera battery to charge so I can show you exactly what I'm working with, as I want to make sure I know exactly what I'm doing before I start fiddling tongue
Good idea. It is worth letting andy see some pics of each socket just to confirm.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 09-Jan-11 16:52:34)

Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Sun 09-Jan-11 16:49:05
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Cheers for the pic! I can't believe the price they charge in B&Q and Maplins. I ended up paying £2.18 for a cheap plastic one which goes for 50p online frown I think I'll take it back after I'm done with it and pick up a professional one for future fiddling for the same price on ebay! Amazingly enough, the 'professional' ones retail for £17.99 in B&Q *shakes head in disgust* lol.

I honestly hate buying things in stores these days, but I guess that's what they rely on, people needing them NOW instead of in a few days time. Oh well! /rant tongue
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 09-Jan-11 16:57:07
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ClubLife:
Cheers for the pic! I can't believe the price they charge in B&Q and Maplins. I ended up paying £2.18 for a cheap plastic one which goes for 50p online frown I think I'll take it back after I'm done with it and pick up a professional one for future fiddling for the same price on ebay! Amazingly enough, the 'professional' ones retail for £17.99 in B&Q *shakes head in disgust* lol.

I honestly hate buying things in stores these days, but I guess that's what they rely on, people needing them NOW instead of in a few days time. Oh well! /rant tongue
See the professional one on the same site.

(If you have already read my reply to your latest questions on the wiring, make sure you have seen the ending I have added to a paragraph - starts with "Remember").

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Sun 09-Jan-11 17:35:30
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your speedy reply RobertoS!

Here's the pictures:

Master Socket
Extension 1 (Lounge)
Extension 2 (Master Bedroom)

Is there any reason they seem to have doubled the cable over on the extension in the lounge, and put two bits of each cable into each terminal? Does it matter if I don't do that when I move it to T5?

Edited by ClubLife (Sun 09-Jan-11 17:56:14)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 09-Jan-11 17:50:16
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
The lounge pic doesn't fully load for me, just gets as far as half-way down the knot{?) near the top, but it looks to me as though the bedroom is daisy-chained off it.

If you look at the master there is only one extension. So I reckon that goes to the lounge, and the second set in the lounge, (surely it is cut, not doubled over?) goes to the bedroom.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Sun 09-Jan-11 17:56:35
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ClubLife:
Thanks for your speedy reply RobertoS!

Here's the pictures:

Master Socket
Extension 1 (Lounge)
Extension 2 (Master Bedroom)

Is there any reason they seem to have doubled the cable over on the extension in the lounge, and put two bits of each cable into each terminal? Does it matter if I don't do that when I move it to T5?


the reason there are two on the lounge is that is the first in the chain, you have a feed from the nte and a feed to the last extension, this is perfectly normal.

disconnect all the wires, then pick out the blue with white and white with blue. this is pair one, these have to be terminated on 2 and 5 at every connection.

do not twist the remaining wires around the cable as i believe this can act like a filter which is not what you want, just twist them together and leave them sitting in the socket but not touching anything.

what you will be left with is 2 wires connected and the other four neatly tucked away. it does not get more technical than that my friend.

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Sun 09-Jan-11 18:03:53
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
The lounge pic doesn't fully load for me, just gets as far as half-way down the knot{?) near the top, but it looks to me as though the bedroom is daisy-chained off it.

Hmm odd, it was working for me. I've just re-uploaded the image and updated the link.
If you look at the master there is only one extension. So I reckon that goes to the lounge, and the second set in the lounge, (surely it is cut, not doubled over?) goes to the bedroom.

How do you tell that there's only one extension on the master? Is it because there's only one set of terminals?

I just double-checked the lounge extension, and you're correct. They are cut, and not doubled over (The lighting is quite dull in there tongue) So it would make sense that the route it follows is: master -> lounge extension -> master bedroom extension.

So all I need to do is work from the master -> lounge -> bedroom, ensuring the same cable is in each T2 & T5, removing the bell wire in T3 on all of them and it's sorted?

Just out of curiosity, what is the purpose of having matching pairs in T2 & T5, and what will it improve, if anything? (I like to know why I'm doing something so I can pass on my learnings to others later down the line tongue)
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Sun 09-Jan-11 18:06:56
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: andyboygsi] [link to this post]
 
Wonderful, thanks so much for your help Andy & Robert! It really is appreciated. It's wonderful when the internet's used for its original purpose!

I hope you both have a lovely weekend, or what's left of it.
Standard User RandomJointer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 09-Jan-11 19:13:57
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
>>So all I need to do is work from the master -> lounge -> bedroom, ensuring the same cable is in each T2 & T5, removing the bell wire in T3 on all of them and it's sorted?

The crucial thing is to move the white/blue to terminal 5 and leave the blue/white on terminal 2. The circuit is 'split' and just removing the bellwire on 3 won't help much.

Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Sun 09-Jan-11 20:58:19
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ClubLife:
Wonderful, thanks so much for your help Andy & Robert! It really is appreciated. It's wonderful when the internet's used for its original purpose!

I hope you both have a lovely weekend, or what's left of it.


no problem.

further to your last question regarding why it is better to use a pair.....

this is because in a situation where you do have external sources of interference, the pairs are twisted so that if a source of interference is present, both sides of the pair in theory should absorb equal amounts of interference. devices on both ends have the ability to cancel out interference which is equal on both sides.

example. the a and b legs both induce 50db of noise, the equipment cancels this out so that it becomes zero.

but if the a leg has 50db and the b 65db there will be a remainder of 15...thus causing problems.



i would always remove the bell wire, there is a current thread on the site where a chap gained half a meg and also wiped out masses of downstream errors by simply disconnecting terminal 3 at all points.

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Sun 09-Jan-11 21:27:53
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: andyboygsi] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that explination Andy, makes perfect sense! I've learnt so much from all of this and am quite enjoying it all laugh

I've moved all of the white w/ blue stripes to T5 on all of the sockets now, and removed the bell wire from them all too.

I'm going to leave the router plugged in via a filter into the test socket for the full 5 days now to see if the IP profile will shift or not. If not, then I'll post back here looking for assistance. I'll also message one of the BT staff in the other thread on here to get interleaving switched off and see if that'll force anything to change at the exchange.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 10-Jan-11 07:19:08
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: andyboygsi] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by andyboygsi:
i would always remove the bell wire, there is a current thread on the site where a chap gained half a meg and also wiped out masses of downstream errors by simply disconnecting terminal 3 at all points.
I have seen many over 1.5Mbps on ADSL Max, a few over 2Mbps, and at least one of 2.5Mbps, over the last three or four years smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Mon 10-Jan-11 20:03:36
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[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
even better then

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 10-Jan-11 20:51:58
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: andyboygsi] [link to this post]
 
Yep. I was amazed at the 2Mbps+ ones, but the gratitude from the users was warming smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Tue 11-Jan-11 15:51:57
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Great news! The IP Profile has shifted and is now on 6500 laughlaugh
According to the router stats it's only taken just under 3 days
DSL Connection

Link Information

Uptime: 2 days, 21:33:52
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 7,616
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 421.82 / 1.85
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.0 / 29.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.0 / 6.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 7,150
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 46
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 43
Line Profile: Interleaved

The SNR seems to have creeped up a little though, and when monitoring it every night it goes up to 7-7.5 and I have seen it at 8. Which is a little strange as there's nothing new in the house, no roadworks going on nearby etc. It used to stay steady at 6.0 day and night.

Whilst the profile has increased in line with the sync speed, I'm a little disappointed because the ping speeds which were fantastic, have begun rising again and packet loss is being experienced quite regularly too frown Although it's nowhere near as high as it was, it's still a darn sight higher than the ~27ms is had gone down to:
Pinging google.co.uk [173.194.37.104] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=128ms TTL=52
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=117ms TTL=52
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=122ms TTL=52
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=136ms TTL=52

Ping statistics for 173.194.37.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 117ms, Maximum = 136ms, Average = 125ms

What could explain this? The router is pretty ancient, we've had it for about 6 years. I do have a home hub 2.0 which I haven't tried, but was planning to hook up after sorting everything else out. I've read mixed reviews about the 2.0 causing more problems though so I'm in two minds whether to bother or not?

Interleaving is still turned on btw, which I understand does increase latency slightly, but I don't think explains the sudden rise in latency from a low steady ~26-27ms. And it's all still plugged into the test socket via a filter. Could it help if I changed the filter possibly?

Edited by ClubLife (Tue 11-Jan-11 15:58:19)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 11-Jan-11 18:05:16
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
I don't know about swapping from HH1 to HH2 sorry.

Got to go out now. I was wondering whether the interleaving depth has increased during the during the profile confusion, but without knowing what is was before then reading it now probably won't help. That would increase the latency.

I don't know off-hand how to get it from the HH anyway. Maybe someone else does.

Are you saying the noise margin increases at night?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 11-Jan-11 18:05:56)

Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Tue 11-Jan-11 19:21:59
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I was wondering whether the interleaving depth has increased during the during the profile confusion, but without knowing what is was before then reading it now probably won't help. That would increase the latency.

I don't know off-hand how to get it from the HH anyway. Maybe someone else does.

Are you saying the noise margin increases at night?

I'm not sure what the interleaving depth is, or how to obtain that so I would definately need instructions from someone. I'll have a look on google after dinner though.

The noise margin seems to fluctuate throughout the day and night now (I know this is normal for it to change as the sun sets/rises etc), but it used to stick solid on 6.0 regardless of what time of day I checked it, and I used to check it regularly enough to notice.

It seems to settle at a minimum of 6.0, and rise to a maximum of 8.0. It doesn't appear to be at a certain time of day or night when it peaks or troughs. Right now it's 6.5, earlier just after posting it went up to 7.5 which is what's confusing me.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Tue 25-Jan-11 16:20:22
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Just thought I'd report back since I hadn't posted an update for awhile.

Once the IP profile had sorted itself out I decided to switch out the HH1 for the HH2 I'd brought back from Coventry. It seems to be a lot more stable than the HH1 on first impressions.

The phone sockets all worked after plugging the test socket back in, so that's all good! And we seem to get a clearer sound on the phones now when talking to people, atleast I seem to think so! So thank you all for your help with the rewiring laugh I learnt an aweful lot, and am very thankful for the knowledge that you've passed on to me.

Since the HH2 has been plugged in, the ping has remained constant at ~27ms during offpeak, and ~43ms during peak times. The SNR sits at between 4.3dB and 6dB during the day, and between 5.3dB and 6.8dB during the evening. The router's synced at 7616Kbps on IP profile 6500Kbps, and we were achieving a max of ~6470Kpbs which was expected with a line attentuation of 27.0dB with interleaving turned on.

I have now had interleaving turned off, thanks to BT_Care on this forum, and am happy to report that the line seems stable. I did need to restart the router myself, but since then it seems to be working flawlessly. Pings to UK servers are averaging an all time low of ~15ms! (And I've now got my beloved PS3 back so can't wait to get back to gaming, plus Starcraft II can be removed from its wrapping laugh), the router has synced at 8128Kbps happily, and I'm now just waiting for the IP profile to rise to 7150Kpbs and our line to max out hopefully at ~7meg.

All in all, it's a vast improvement from the 2-3meg we were receiving, dropping to almost 1meg during peak times.

Thanks once again to everyone who's helped!
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 25-Jan-11 17:05:46
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
It is indeed somewhat different! smile

I'm still puzzled by why the noise margin rises in the evening. I think there must be an external source of noise somewhere that goes at the end of the working day.

Does the same effect happen at weekends, or does it stay high on Sat/Sun?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Tue 25-Jan-11 18:04:50
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[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I love it when things work properly, and to the best of their ability laugh

I'm stumped by the noise as well, although not worried about it as much as I would be if it was going above 9! haha. I think it's the street lights outside, but have no way of positively saying whether that is it or not! I'm going to keep an eye on it for the rest of the week and see if it stays up at the weekend.

I did notice a work site has gone up recently (In the past few weeks atleast) but that is about half a mile away, and they work during daylight, so would have completely the opposite effect.

I shall keep you posted! smile

Edit: Right now the noise margin is at 4.8dB and the street lights are already on, so who knows!

Edited by ClubLife (Tue 25-Jan-11 18:07:54)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 25-Jan-11 18:15:31
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
If street lights do anything, they introduce noise so lower the margin. The point is it is going in the wrong direction in the evening. It should fall.

The work site sounds exactly what would cause this, if they are generating electro-magnetic noise.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Thu 27-Jan-11 17:35:11
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Oh, so the street lights would make it lower towards zero? It seems to have settled more now. In the day it's going up to ~6.5dB, in the evening it drops as low as 3.5dB (From what I've witnessed when checking)

Wouldn't the work site need to be active during the evening when the SNR was rising, instead of falling in order to be the cause?

We did lose connection two nights ago, and when I called the helpline there was a recorded message stating that BT were doing maintenance on their network between 12am-6am. Since it's been back up, it's been a lot more stable! Hopefully whatever they did continues to work like it is now laugh
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